Adobe ACR 3.1 and DNG 3.1

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by deryck lant, May 5, 2005.

  1. deryck  lant

    deryck lant Guest

    deryck lant, May 5, 2005
    #1
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  2. deryck  lant

    Paul Furman Guest

    deryck lant wrote:

    > DNG 3.1 has been posted and will convert D2X NEF files to be used in CS
    > or CS2:
    >
    > ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/photoshop/cameraraw/win/3.x/DNG_Camera_Raw_3_1.zip
    >
    > ACR 3.1 can be used in CS2 but not CS:
    >
    > ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/photoshop/cameraraw/win/3.x/Camera_Raw_3_1.zip



    Are people using the DNG thing to convert & archive RAW files? I didn't
    know there was a converter. A lot of extra work but I guess it's wise.


    --
    Paul Furman
    http://www.edgehill.net/1
    san francisco native plants
     
    Paul Furman, May 5, 2005
    #2
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  3. deryck  lant

    deryck lant Guest

    The message <>
    from Paul Furman <> contains these words:

    > deryck lant wrote:


    > > DNG 3.1 has been posted and will convert D2X NEF files to be used in CS
    > > or CS2:
    > >
    > > ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/photoshop/cameraraw/win/3.x/DNG_Camera_Raw_3_1.zip
    > >
    > > ACR 3.1 can be used in CS2 but not CS:
    > >
    > > ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/photoshop/cameraraw/win/3.x/Camera_Raw_3_1.zip



    > Are people using the DNG thing to convert & archive RAW files? I didn't
    > know there was a converter. A lot of extra work but I guess it's wise.



    One practical reason is that compressed DNG is 12 to 25% smaller file than
    compressed NEF. Not much extra work as DNG will batch convert a folder of 100
    D2X compressed NEF in well under 10 mins on a 3Gig P4 with 3Gb RAM.

    I think DNG will be around for a long time.

    Deryck
     
    deryck lant, May 5, 2005
    #3
  4. Paul Furman wrote:
    [snip]
    > Are people using the DNG thing to convert & archive RAW files? I

    didn't
    > know there was a converter. A lot of extra work but I guess it's

    wise.

    Yes, I use it for that, among other things. (In my case, Pentax *istD,
    the size reduction is even more dramatic - from 13MB to 6MB. But that
    becomes nearly 16MB with the option of storing the original Raw file
    inside the DNG, which is an option I don't use).

    DNG becomes even more useful with CS2. There is an OPTION to store the
    ACR settings back in the DNG file as metadata. So the DNG file not only
    holds the Raw data, but also the results of the work you have done on
    it in ACR 3.x. (If you don't want that option, you can still do the
    same as CS, and hold the settings in the database or in sidecar files).
    Why is this only with DNG? Because Adobe know it is safe with DNG, but
    can't be sure what will happen if they ever attempt to write a
    proprietary Raw file, so they never attempt to.

    In fact, the DNG Converter (not just the latest one), if given a folder
    of DNGs with XMP sidecars to convert, will convert them into DNGs with
    those settings inside. And CS, as well as CS2, will read and apply
    those embedded settings. (The difference is that CS can't update DNGs
    with settings, while CS2 can).

    Does it matter? I am using this to make file management easier.
    Achiving the DNGs not only archives the Raw data, but also any settings
    I've developed in ACR. As ACR provides more and more capability with
    each release of Photoshop, (with non-destructive curves, leveling, and
    cropping in CS2), it becomes important to ensure that all of that work
    is preserved with the Raw file, and with this option, this can be done
    in a single file.

    I hope other Raw processors will do the same. Then it will become
    possible to pass a DNG file from one to another, with each doing what
    they are best at.

    --
    Barry Pearson
    http://www.barry.pearson.name/­photography/
     
    Barry Pearson, May 7, 2005
    #4
  5. deryck  lant

    Frank ess Guest

    Barry Pearson wrote:
    > Paul Furman wrote:
    > [snip]
    >> Are people using the DNG thing to convert & archive RAW files? I
    >> didn't know there was a converter. A lot of extra work but I guess
    >> it's wise.

    >
    > Yes, I use it for that, among other things. (In my case, Pentax
    > *istD,
    > the size reduction is even more dramatic - from 13MB to 6MB. But
    > that
    > becomes nearly 16MB with the option of storing the original Raw file
    > inside the DNG, which is an option I don't use).
    >
    > DNG becomes even more useful with CS2. There is an OPTION to store
    > the
    > ACR settings back in the DNG file as metadata. So the DNG file not
    > only holds the Raw data, but also the results of the work you have
    > done on it in ACR 3.x. (If you don't want that option, you can still
    > do the same as CS, and hold the settings in the database or in
    > sidecar files). Why is this only with DNG? Because Adobe know it is
    > safe with DNG, but can't be sure what will happen if they ever
    > attempt to write a proprietary Raw file, so they never attempt to.
    >
    > In fact, the DNG Converter (not just the latest one), if given a
    > folder of DNGs with XMP sidecars to convert, will convert them into
    > DNGs with those settings inside. And CS, as well as CS2, will read
    > and apply those embedded settings. (The difference is that CS can't
    > update DNGs with settings, while CS2 can).
    >
    > Does it matter? I am using this to make file management easier.
    > Achiving the DNGs not only archives the Raw data, but also any
    > settings I've developed in ACR. As ACR provides more and more
    > capability with each release of Photoshop, (with non-destructive
    > curves, leveling, and cropping in CS2), it becomes important to
    > ensure that all of that work is preserved with the Raw file, and
    > with
    > this option, this can be done in a single file.
    >
    > I hope other Raw processors will do the same. Then it will become
    > possible to pass a DNG file from one to another, with each doing
    > what
    > they are best at.


    Barry:

    I am impressed and inspired by your Web site at
    http://www.barry.pearson.name/­photography/ although I discovered this
    works better:
    http://www.barry.pearson.name/photography/index.htm

    It's clear you are a thoughtful and meticulous worker, so I'll accept
    your advice and regard DNG as a worthwhile environment. It seems to me
    it would be a favor beyond price if you were to make up and publish a
    recipe for workflow, for those of us who haven't the wherewithal or
    attention-span to do it ourselves.

    Thank you for your attention,

    --
    Frank ess
     
    Frank ess, May 7, 2005
    #5
  6. Frank ess wrote:
    > Barry Pearson wrote:
    > >

    [snip]
    > It's clear you are a thoughtful and meticulous worker, so I'll accept


    > your advice and regard DNG as a worthwhile environment. It seems to

    me
    > it would be a favor beyond price if you were to make up and publish a


    > recipe for workflow, for those of us who haven't the wherewithal or
    > attention-span to do it ourselves.


    Here is my recipe: buy Bruce Fraser's "Real World Camera Raw with Adobe
    Photoshop CS" or "Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS2" as
    appropriate. (I don't think the latter is available for a few days).

    That is what I did. (The first one). Then I took a copy of the (201)
    Raw files from a recent shoot, and used them as a "course example" as I
    systematically worked through the book, trying everything I could, over
    a week or so.

    You don't want to read it from me! You want to read it from Bruce.
    Honestly.

    --
    Barry Pearson
    http://www.barry.pearson.name/­­photography/
     
    Barry Pearson, May 8, 2005
    #6
  7. deryck  lant

    Paul Furman Guest

    deryck lant wrote:

    > DNG 3.1 has been posted and will convert D2X NEF files to be used in CS
    > or CS2:
    >
    > ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/photoshop/cameraraw/win/3.x/DNG_Camera_Raw_3_1.zip



    This is actually the CS2 version, move up one folder for the CS.


    >
    > ACR 3.1 can be used in CS2 but not CS:
    >
    > ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/photoshop/cameraraw/win/3.x/Camera_Raw_3_1.zip



    This works pretty well. I just tested 18 NEFs & it took about a minute
    or less to convert; much quicker than transfering from CF card! It
    reduced my D70 5MB NEFs to 4MB DNGs. 20MB savings for that small set of
    shots & I suppose this ought to be a more stable archive format than NEF
    20 years down the road I can guess which will be better supported.

    I wonder if this disables some of the Nikon "goodies" in Capture or NV
    though I don't use those. I know there are some EXIF fields that PS
    doesn't read properly.

    Breeze Browser trial only shows thumbnails & the convert button is
    greyed out. I'd guess DCRAW supports this format??? but I wonder if I'm
    sort of locked into using photoshop or other programs would support it.
    I might not always have a full PS license available. With Nikon & Adobe
    in a spat lately over the DX2 WB encryption, I wonder if they will try
    to sabotage this format, especially if it locks users into Adobe converters.

    Any other caveats I should know about?

    --
    Paul Furman
    http://www.edgehill.net/1
    san francisco native plants
     
    Paul Furman, May 8, 2005
    #7
  8. deryck  lant

    Frank ess Guest

    Barry Pearson wrote:
    > Frank ess wrote:
    >> Barry Pearson wrote:
    >>>

    > [snip]
    >> It's clear you are a thoughtful and meticulous worker, so I'll
    >> accept

    >
    >> your advice and regard DNG as a worthwhile environment. It seems to
    >> me it would be a favor beyond price if you were to make up and
    >> publish a

    >
    >> recipe for workflow, for those of us who haven't the wherewithal or
    >> attention-span to do it ourselves.

    >
    > Here is my recipe: buy Bruce Fraser's "Real World Camera Raw with
    > Adobe Photoshop CS" or "Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop
    > CS2" as appropriate. (I don't think the latter is available for a
    > few
    > days).
    >
    > That is what I did. (The first one). Then I took a copy of the (201)
    > Raw files from a recent shoot, and used them as a "course example"
    > as
    > I systematically worked through the book, trying everything I could,
    > over a week or so.
    >
    > You don't want to read it from me! You want to read it from Bruce.
    > Honestly.


    Sounds like a good plan. Thank you.

    --
    Frank ess
     
    Frank ess, May 8, 2005
    #8
  9. deryck  lant

    Paul Furman Guest

    Paul Furman wrote:

    >
    > Any other caveats I should know about?




    rec.photo.dslr has a huge, intensely detailed discussion. More than I
    could absorb actually.
     
    Paul Furman, May 8, 2005
    #9
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