Acer 64bit Ferrari Laptops - where to buy

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Dave - Dave.net.nz, May 31, 2004.

  1. Nathan Mercer wrote:

    > By next year 100% of all PCs shipping with AMD processors and the majority
    > of those with Intel procs will 64-bit capable.


    you certain of that? what about the x86-64 chips with the 64bit part
    disabled... HP use them in notebooks.

    > In a years time when x64 is mainstream, when there is little or no
    > difference pricewise between a normal CPU and a x64 bit one, - that 8%
    > performance is well worth it.
    > Hardware is the same cost, you haven't had to reinvent the wheel with a new
    > OS or applications. This is an average perf improvement, some apps will be
    > way better.


    and obviosly some worse.

    > More importantly think of all the new scenarios that will be enabled -
    > studio quality video editing on the desktop, realistic gaming, insanely fast
    > data access


    This is what I think will bring real time real looking CGI.

    > that supports large data sets (hmmm 2^64 worth of RAM)


    willing to be corrected, but isnt the A64/Opteron limited to 2^40 of ram?
    I mean not that it is a likely limit in the next year or so,
    Ram has only gone up by a factor of 125 since 1995{8mb-1GB}, so if we
    need anymore than 125GB ram in 2010(assuming accellerated growth) then
    I'll eat a 10GB ram chip :)
    2^40 is ~ 1099GB of ram... rounded

    --
    Dave Hall
    http://www.dave.net.nz
    http://www.dunedinwireless.co.nz
     
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Jun 3, 2004
    #21
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  2. Dave - Dave.net.nz, Jun 3, 2004
    #22
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  3. "Dave - Dave.net.nz" <dave@no_spam_here_please.dave.net.nz> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Nathan Mercer wrote:
    >> We just call them all Windows x64

    >
    > And windows for Itanium?


    Windows IA64
     
    Nathan Mercer, Jun 3, 2004
    #23
  4. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    AD. Guest

    On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 16:28:21 +1200, Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:

    > Nathan Mercer wrote:
    >> that supports large data sets (hmmm 2^64 worth of RAM)

    >
    > willing to be corrected, but isnt the A64/Opteron limited to 2^40 of ram?


    The current models do have an 2^40 limit, although I'm not sure whether
    that's a bus limit, chipset limit or a cpu limit. I think there is also
    another 2^48 limit somewhere in the current architecture.

    But as you say, the current hardware will be long since obsolete when
    people need TBs of RAM :)

    Cheers
    Anton
     
    AD., Jun 3, 2004
    #24
  5. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    AD. Guest

    On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 15:51:07 +1200, Nathan Mercer wrote:

    > More exciting again is in Server land HP are shipping 2 way Opteron
    > boxes now, 4 way later this year.


    I must admit to enviously looking at the HP web site when they were
    announced a month or so ago. Well as envious as someone can get about an
    expensive server ;)

    Does anyone know if HP plan to bring them into NZ? The dual Opteron IBM
    325s seem to not be available here.

    Might have to get Opteron servers from Sun instead :)

    > I've seen a 4 way AMD Opteron box hosting almost twice as many Windows
    > Server 2003 Termianl Services users as compared to a similarly specced 4
    > way Intel box. Today.


    Yep, Opterons scale waay better than Xeons (at least as good as Itanium2s
    but much cheaper) and I'm not sure that the 64bit Xeons are going to
    improve because they will still use the same old shared bus the current
    Xeons use.

    What the Opterons hypertransport bus and onboard memory controllers have
    done is make it relatively easy for vendors to produce scalable n-way
    motherboards and chipsets. I think AMD learnt their lesson about relying
    on other vendors for that stuff, and have taken all the hard stuff away
    from them in effect commoditising the designs.

    Also next year AMD will be bringing out dual core Opterons that are
    supposedly compatible with existing mobos.

    And Serverworks have stopped producing Intel server chipsets and are now
    working on Opteron ones. Initially only 4 way, but maybe 8 or 16 in the
    future?

    The medium to low end server market looks like it could be in for a
    shakeup - unless of course customers still blindly follow Intels marketing
    budget.

    Cheers
    Anton
     
    AD., Jun 3, 2004
    #25
  6. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    Divine Guest

    On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 12:28:18 +1200, Nathan Mercer wrote:

    > We are seeing on average an 8% performance improvement for native 32bit
    > software with AMD 64bit chips with Windows for 64-Bit Extended Systems


    Interesting claim that.

    MandrakeSoft is claiming an average of 20% performance improvement for
    native 64bit software operating on the amd64 Vs the same software compiled
    for the 32bit platform.


    Divine

    --
    The Queen's Mother: "Well I don't know what all you queens are doing,
    but this old Queen wants a drink."
     
    Divine, Jun 3, 2004
    #26
  7. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    Divine Guest

    On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 15:51:07 +1200, Nathan Mercer wrote:

    > I can't speak to the Intel CPUs as I haven't seen/used a x64 from them
    > yet, I'm not even sure that Northwood is one. Hardware confuses me at the
    > best of times


    I read somewhere that Intel's 64bit platform would be merely an emulation
    of the AMD64 platform.


    Divine

    --
    The Queen's Mother: "Well I don't know what all you queens are doing,
    but this old Queen wants a drink."
     
    Divine, Jun 3, 2004
    #27
  8. AD. wrote:
    >>>that supports large data sets (hmmm 2^64 worth of RAM)


    >>willing to be corrected, but isnt the A64/Opteron limited to 2^40 of ram?


    > The current models do have an 2^40 limit, although I'm not sure whether
    > that's a bus limit, chipset limit or a cpu limit. I think there is also
    > another 2^48 limit somewhere in the current architecture.


    2^40 is currently set by AMD... they make mention that they can provide
    one with 2^64 if needed, and to contact them.

    > But as you say, the current hardware will be long since obsolete when
    > people need TBs of RAM :)


    indeed.

    --
    Dave Hall
    http://www.dave.net.nz
    http://www.dunedinwireless.co.nz
     
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Jun 3, 2004
    #28
  9. Divine wrote:
    >>We are seeing on average an 8% performance improvement for native 32bit
    >>software with AMD 64bit chips with Windows for 64-Bit Extended Systems


    > Interesting claim that.
    > MandrakeSoft is claiming an average of 20% performance improvement for
    > native 64bit software operating on the amd64 Vs the same software compiled
    > for the 32bit platform.


    It's not that interesting... he was commenting on native 32bit apps, you
    mentioned software recompiled for x86-64.

    Now if you had said that Mandrake says that 32bit software is running
    20% faster.

    --
    Dave Hall
    http://www.dave.net.nz
    http://www.dunedinwireless.co.nz
     
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Jun 3, 2004
    #29
  10. Divine wrote:
    >>I can't speak to the Intel CPUs as I haven't seen/used a x64 from them
    >>yet, I'm not even sure that Northwood is one. Hardware confuses me at the
    >>best of times


    > I read somewhere that Intel's 64bit platform would be merely an emulation
    > of the AMD64 platform.


    Can a 32bit CPU emulate a 64bit one? I wouldn't think it could...
    although I suppose PAE is almost "36bit memory address emulation"

    --
    Dave Hall
    http://www.dave.net.nz
    http://www.dunedinwireless.co.nz
     
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Jun 3, 2004
    #30
  11. "AD." <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 15:51:07 +1200, Nathan Mercer wrote:
    >
    > > More exciting again is in Server land HP are shipping 2 way Opteron
    > > boxes now, 4 way later this year.

    >
    > I must admit to enviously looking at the HP web site when they were
    > announced a month or so ago. Well as envious as someone can get about an
    > expensive server ;)
    >
    > Does anyone know if HP plan to bring them into NZ? The dual Opteron IBM
    > 325s seem to not be available here.


    Both 2 way and 4 way are available in New Zealand now.

    Link to details of these two systems.

    http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/proliantdl145/index.html

    http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/proliantdl585/index.html
     
    Nathan Mercer, Jun 4, 2004
    #31
  12. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    AD. Guest

    On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 16:56:45 -0700, Nathan Mercer wrote:


    >> Does anyone know if HP plan to bring them into NZ? The dual Opteron IBM
    >> 325s seem to not be available here.

    >
    > Both 2 way and 4 way are available in New Zealand now.


    Thanks Nathan :)

    Cheers
    Anton
     
    AD., Jun 4, 2004
    #32
  13. In article <>,
    "Nathan Mercer" <> wrote:

    >...studio quality video editing on the desktop...


    I thought that the limits of quality of conventional PAL and NTSC video
    had already been reached. You can already produce studio-quality video
    on an ordinary desktop PC--the bandwidth and storage available is ample.

    Now, if we can go to HDTV quality, or even 70mm film quality--now THAT
    would really be something...
     
    Lawrence D¹Oliveiro, Jun 4, 2004
    #33
  14. Divine <> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.06.03.12.12.25.868802@TRACKER>...
    > On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 15:51:07 +1200, Nathan Mercer wrote:
    >
    > > I can't speak to the Intel CPUs as I haven't seen/used a x64 from them
    > > yet, I'm not even sure that Northwood is one. Hardware confuses me at the
    > > best of times

    >
    > I read somewhere that Intel's 64bit platform would be merely an emulation
    > of the AMD64 platform.


    Not so.

    There are obviously microcode differences.

    There is also support for proprietary instructions on each… (e.g.
    3dnow=AMD specific)
     
    Nathan Mercer, Jun 5, 2004
    #34
  15. Divine <> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.06.03.12.12.25.868802@TRACKER>...
    > On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 15:51:07 +1200, Nathan Mercer wrote:
    >
    > > I can't speak to the Intel CPUs as I haven't seen/used a x64 from them
    > > yet, I'm not even sure that Northwood is one. Hardware confuses me at the
    > > best of times

    >
    > I read somewhere that Intel's 64bit platform would be merely an emulation
    > of the AMD64 platform.


    Also

    Here's a whitepaper on the differences.

    http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~simoni/Classes/EC332/Papers/Intel64-bitCompatible.pdf

    a lack of NX and 3DNow! (prefetchw in particular) support on the Intel
    chips

    lahf/sahf have been officially re-added to the AMD64, but yet to see a
    chip that includes them
     
    Nathan Mercer, Jun 5, 2004
    #35
  16. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    AD. Guest

    AD., Jun 5, 2004
    #36
  17. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    Divine Guest

    On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 18:32:47 -0700, Nathan Mercer wrote:

    >> I read somewhere that Intel's 64bit platform would be merely an
    >> emulation of the AMD64 platform.

    >
    > Not so.
    >
    > There are obviously microcode differences.
    >
    > There is also support for proprietary instructions on eachÂ… (e.g.
    > 3dnow=AMD specific)


    By "AMD specific" I presume you mean that Intel have decided not to
    implement the full functionality of the AMD64 chip, and have instead
    decided to "embrace and extend" a la Micro$oft.


    Divine

    --
    The Queen's Mother: "Well I don't know what all you queens are doing,
    but this old Queen wants a drink."
     
    Divine, Jun 5, 2004
    #37
  18. Lawrence D¹Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote in message news:<>...
    > >...studio quality video editing on the desktop...

    >
    > I thought that the limits of quality of conventional PAL and NTSC video
    > had already been reached. You can already produce studio-quality video
    > on an ordinary desktop PC--the bandwidth and storage available is ample.
    >
    > Now, if we can go to HDTV quality, or even 70mm film quality--now THAT
    > would really be something...


    Windows Media High Definition Video (WMV HD) makes it possible to
    watch stunning, high-definition movies on your PC.

    http://microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/HDVideo.aspx

    http://microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/AboutHDVideo.aspx
     
    Nathan Mercer, Jun 5, 2004
    #38
  19. In article <pan.2004.06.05.07.13.59.798345@TRACKER>,
    says...
    > On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 18:32:47 -0700, Nathan Mercer wrote:
    >
    > >> I read somewhere that Intel's 64bit platform would be merely an
    > >> emulation of the AMD64 platform.

    > >
    > > Not so.
    > >
    > > There are obviously microcode differences.
    > >
    > > There is also support for proprietary instructions on eachÂ=3F (e.g..
    > > 3dnow=AMD specific)

    >
    > By "AMD specific" I presume you mean that Intel have decided not to
    > implement the full functionality of the AMD64 chip, and have instead
    > decided to "embrace and extend" a la Micro$oft.


    No, he means that Intel did not license a proprietary AMD extension, why
    should they?
     
    Patrick Dunford, Jun 6, 2004
    #39
  20. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    AD. Guest

    On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 19:13:59 +1200, Divine wrote:

    > On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 18:32:47 -0700, Nathan Mercer wrote:
    >
    >>> I read somewhere that Intel's 64bit platform would be merely an
    >>> emulation of the AMD64 platform.

    >>
    >> Not so.
    >>
    >> There are obviously microcode differences.
    >>
    >> There is also support for proprietary instructions on each… (e.g.
    >> 3dnow=AMD specific)

    >
    > By "AMD specific" I presume you mean that Intel have decided not to
    > implement the full functionality of the AMD64 chip, and have instead
    > decided to "embrace and extend" a la Micro$oft.


    How is not implementing something 'embrace and extend'?

    Don't you mean 'embrace and shrink'?

    Cheers
    Anton
     
    AD., Jun 7, 2004
    #40
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