Access Point?

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Robert Baer, Mar 3, 2014.

  1. Robert Baer

    Robert Baer Guest

    May be going out in the hills or "boonies" where one knows cell
    communications will be bad or non-existent.
    So, a relay scheme is needed by placing an AP in "middle".

    Recommended AP/distance extender for Android cell phones?
    Robert Baer, Mar 3, 2014
    #1
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  2. Robert Baer

    Paul Guest

    Robert Baer wrote:
    > May be going out in the hills or "boonies" where one knows cell
    > communications will be bad or non-existent.
    > So, a relay scheme is needed by placing an AP in "middle".
    >
    > Recommended AP/distance extender for Android cell phones?


    That sounds like a "3G to Wifi Bridge". Maybe your
    phone company can help you ? (Note - this box may not
    be complete and ready to go, it's just for illustration.)

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/802-11n-3G-...-Network-Adapter-/230619008276#ht_10609wt_814

    The thing is, you need to know what standard your phone company
    uses, for the "air" portion. I don't know the standards all
    that well (CDMA, GSM, all the "generations").

    Phone companies like:

    SmartPhone connected to data plan. Plan has data cap
    and penalty fee for overage.

    Phone companies don't like "tethered" applications:

    User gets a conversion device (CradlePoint), and goes
    from 3G air to desktop computer. This effectively
    allows a computer to use a phone company data plan. The
    reason a phone company does not like this, is the
    desktop PC may generate more data, and degrade the
    data service provided to other users. The cell phone network
    was never designed for people to download DVDs for example.

    *******

    Let's look at this box.

    http://cradlepoint.com/products/sma...r1200b-small-business-mobile-broadband-router

    DATA IN: USB modem (2),
    ExpressCard modem (1),
    10/100 Ethernet ports (2) (cable/DSL/satellite modems),
    WiFi (as WAN) wireless 2x2 MIMO “N” WiFi 2.4GHz (802.11 b/g/n)

    DATA OUT: WiFi (802.11 b/g/n), five 10/100 Ethernet ports (WAN/LAN Switchable)

    The ExpressCard modem, is a plug-in card that fits in the router,
    and connects to the phone network. That's a "tethered" application,
    which your phone plan may specifically deny as an option.

    If you click the "Modem Info" tab on that page, it shows
    the air cards which plug into the modem slot. You need an
    air card known to work with your phone company.

    # PC/Ex Card (Ex Card Only)
    * Sierra Wireless AirCard 504 [AirCard 890 by AT&T]

    *******

    In the other direction, some phone companies distribute "femtocells"
    to end users. This converts an Internet connection, into a cell
    tower, but with reduced reach. It allows the phone company
    to extend reach, by creating miniature cell towers everywhere.
    This doesn't necessarily help you, but shows how the phone
    company will do things that benefit them.

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/2011-02-11-wireless-everywhere_N.htm

    A phone company representative, may not want to discuss CradlePoint
    with you. Unless, perhaps, you're signing up for a business class
    3G service of some sort. So try a little research on your own first,
    to find out how sensitive the phone company is to "tethered"
    applications. The phone company objective, is to make each Smart Phone
    a "small" user of data, so everyone can have "quality of service".
    It's almost the same problem, as the first cable broadband, where
    the people downloading DVDs, ruined it for everyone else on their
    street.

    This is, just a guess,

    Paul
    Paul, Mar 4, 2014
    #2
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  3. Robert Baer

    Robert Baer Guest

    Paul wrote:
    > Robert Baer wrote:
    >> May be going out in the hills or "boonies" where one knows cell
    >> communications will be bad or non-existent.
    >> So, a relay scheme is needed by placing an AP in "middle".
    >>
    >> Recommended AP/distance extender for Android cell phones?

    >
    > That sounds like a "3G to Wifi Bridge". Maybe your
    > phone company can help you ? (Note - this box may not
    > be complete and ready to go, it's just for illustration.)
    >
    > http://www.ebay.com/itm/802-11n-3G-...-Network-Adapter-/230619008276#ht_10609wt_814
    >
    >
    > The thing is, you need to know what standard your phone company
    > uses, for the "air" portion. I don't know the standards all
    > that well (CDMA, GSM, all the "generations").
    >
    > Phone companies like:
    >
    > SmartPhone connected to data plan. Plan has data cap
    > and penalty fee for overage.
    >
    > Phone companies don't like "tethered" applications:
    >
    > User gets a conversion device (CradlePoint), and goes
    > from 3G air to desktop computer. This effectively
    > allows a computer to use a phone company data plan. The
    > reason a phone company does not like this, is the
    > desktop PC may generate more data, and degrade the
    > data service provided to other users. The cell phone network
    > was never designed for people to download DVDs for example.
    >
    > *******
    >
    > Let's look at this box.
    >
    > http://cradlepoint.com/products/sma...r1200b-small-business-mobile-broadband-router
    >
    >
    > DATA IN: USB modem (2),
    > ExpressCard modem (1),
    > 10/100 Ethernet ports (2) (cable/DSL/satellite modems),
    > WiFi (as WAN) wireless 2x2 MIMO “N” WiFi 2.4GHz (802.11 b/g/n)
    >
    > DATA OUT: WiFi (802.11 b/g/n), five 10/100 Ethernet ports (WAN/LAN
    > Switchable)
    >
    > The ExpressCard modem, is a plug-in card that fits in the router,
    > and connects to the phone network. That's a "tethered" application,
    > which your phone plan may specifically deny as an option.
    >
    > If you click the "Modem Info" tab on that page, it shows
    > the air cards which plug into the modem slot. You need an
    > air card known to work with your phone company.
    >
    > # PC/Ex Card (Ex Card Only)
    > * Sierra Wireless AirCard 504 [AirCard 890 by AT&T]
    >
    > *******
    >
    > In the other direction, some phone companies distribute "femtocells"
    > to end users. This converts an Internet connection, into a cell
    > tower, but with reduced reach. It allows the phone company
    > to extend reach, by creating miniature cell towers everywhere.
    > This doesn't necessarily help you, but shows how the phone
    > company will do things that benefit them.
    >
    > http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/2011-02-11-wireless-everywhere_N.htm
    >
    >
    > A phone company representative, may not want to discuss CradlePoint
    > with you. Unless, perhaps, you're signing up for a business class
    > 3G service of some sort. So try a little research on your own first,
    > to find out how sensitive the phone company is to "tethered"
    > applications. The phone company objective, is to make each Smart Phone
    > a "small" user of data, so everyone can have "quality of service".
    > It's almost the same problem, as the first cable broadband, where
    > the people downloading DVDs, ruined it for everyone else on their
    > street.
    >
    > This is, just a guess,
    >
    > Paul

    This particular APP is "plain" cell phone.
    Cell phone location: 1) inside decent signal area, nominally in city
    or town, and 2) outside even the suburbs, aka "boonies".
    Case 2 is where a "relay" or 2 would be needed to extend
    communication range.

    Thanks for the extra info.
    Robert Baer, Mar 5, 2014
    #3
  4. "Robert Baer" <> wrote in message
    news:y_xRu.35554$...
    > Paul wrote:
    >> Robert Baer wrote:
    >>> May be going out in the hills or "boonies" where one knows cell
    >>> communications will be bad or non-existent.
    >>> So, a relay scheme is needed by placing an AP in "middle".
    >>>
    >>> Recommended AP/distance extender for Android cell phones?

    >>
    >> That sounds like a "3G to Wifi Bridge". Maybe your
    >> phone company can help you ? (Note - this box may not
    >> be complete and ready to go, it's just for illustration.)
    >>
    >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/802-11n-3G-...-Network-Adapter-/230619008276#ht_10609wt_814
    >>
    >>
    >> The thing is, you need to know what standard your phone company
    >> uses, for the "air" portion. I don't know the standards all
    >> that well (CDMA, GSM, all the "generations").
    >>
    >> Phone companies like:
    >>
    >> SmartPhone connected to data plan. Plan has data cap
    >> and penalty fee for overage.
    >>
    >> Phone companies don't like "tethered" applications:
    >>
    >> User gets a conversion device (CradlePoint), and goes
    >> from 3G air to desktop computer. This effectively
    >> allows a computer to use a phone company data plan. The
    >> reason a phone company does not like this, is the
    >> desktop PC may generate more data, and degrade the
    >> data service provided to other users. The cell phone network
    >> was never designed for people to download DVDs for example.
    >>
    >> *******
    >>
    >> Let's look at this box.
    >>
    >> http://cradlepoint.com/products/sma...r1200b-small-business-mobile-broadband-router
    >>
    >>
    >> DATA IN: USB modem (2),
    >> ExpressCard modem (1),
    >> 10/100 Ethernet ports (2) (cable/DSL/satellite modems),
    >> WiFi (as WAN) wireless 2x2 MIMO “N” WiFi 2.4GHz (802.11 b/g/n)
    >>
    >> DATA OUT: WiFi (802.11 b/g/n), five 10/100 Ethernet ports (WAN/LAN
    >> Switchable)
    >>
    >> The ExpressCard modem, is a plug-in card that fits in the router,
    >> and connects to the phone network. That's a "tethered" application,
    >> which your phone plan may specifically deny as an option.
    >>
    >> If you click the "Modem Info" tab on that page, it shows
    >> the air cards which plug into the modem slot. You need an
    >> air card known to work with your phone company.
    >>
    >> # PC/Ex Card (Ex Card Only)
    >> * Sierra Wireless AirCard 504 [AirCard 890 by AT&T]
    >>
    >> *******
    >>
    >> In the other direction, some phone companies distribute "femtocells"
    >> to end users. This converts an Internet connection, into a cell
    >> tower, but with reduced reach. It allows the phone company
    >> to extend reach, by creating miniature cell towers everywhere.
    >> This doesn't necessarily help you, but shows how the phone
    >> company will do things that benefit them.
    >>
    >> http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/2011-02-11-wireless-everywhere_N.htm
    >>
    >>
    >> A phone company representative, may not want to discuss CradlePoint
    >> with you. Unless, perhaps, you're signing up for a business class
    >> 3G service of some sort. So try a little research on your own first,
    >> to find out how sensitive the phone company is to "tethered"
    >> applications. The phone company objective, is to make each Smart Phone
    >> a "small" user of data, so everyone can have "quality of service".
    >> It's almost the same problem, as the first cable broadband, where
    >> the people downloading DVDs, ruined it for everyone else on their
    >> street.
    >>
    >> This is, just a guess,
    >>
    >> Paul

    > This particular APP is "plain" cell phone.
    > Cell phone location: 1) inside decent signal area, nominally in city or
    > town, and 2) outside even the suburbs, aka "boonies".
    > Case 2 is where a "relay" or 2 would be needed to extend communication
    > range.
    >
    > Thanks for the extra info.
    >



    I'm confused. Are you asking about a cellular range extender that you carry
    with you? If you could carry an extender with you, then you would not need
    an extender because if the extender could talk to a tower then your phone
    could also talk to the tower.

    There are extenders that can be installed where reception is poor, but these
    must be coonected to a PC (or Mac) and also plugged into the wall. There is
    virtually zero in the way of mobility, and the only way that that the zero
    can be overcome is by carrying lots of support equipment. And, a range
    extender requires there be an internet connection. I have a customer that is
    in townhouse where the surrounding terrain makes cell reception very poor
    inside her house. She bought an extender device from Verizon Wireless that
    plugged into the wall and was connected to her ISP. This cured her phone
    troubles, but the wireless router was the delivery mechanism for her data,
    so I'm not sure that this solution fits your need.

    You know that the voice -- phone portion of the phone -- and the data are
    completely different, right?
    Jeff Strickland, Mar 5, 2014
    #4
  5. Robert Baer

    Robert Baer Guest

    Jeff Strickland wrote:
    >
    > "Robert Baer" <> wrote in message
    > news:y_xRu.35554$...
    >> Paul wrote:
    >>> Robert Baer wrote:
    >>>> May be going out in the hills or "boonies" where one knows cell
    >>>> communications will be bad or non-existent.
    >>>> So, a relay scheme is needed by placing an AP in "middle".
    >>>>
    >>>> Recommended AP/distance extender for Android cell phones?
    >>>
    >>> That sounds like a "3G to Wifi Bridge". Maybe your
    >>> phone company can help you ? (Note - this box may not
    >>> be complete and ready to go, it's just for illustration.)
    >>>
    >>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/802-11n-3G-...-Network-Adapter-/230619008276#ht_10609wt_814
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> The thing is, you need to know what standard your phone company
    >>> uses, for the "air" portion. I don't know the standards all
    >>> that well (CDMA, GSM, all the "generations").
    >>>
    >>> Phone companies like:
    >>>
    >>> SmartPhone connected to data plan. Plan has data cap
    >>> and penalty fee for overage.
    >>>
    >>> Phone companies don't like "tethered" applications:
    >>>
    >>> User gets a conversion device (CradlePoint), and goes
    >>> from 3G air to desktop computer. This effectively
    >>> allows a computer to use a phone company data plan. The
    >>> reason a phone company does not like this, is the
    >>> desktop PC may generate more data, and degrade the
    >>> data service provided to other users. The cell phone network
    >>> was never designed for people to download DVDs for example.
    >>>
    >>> *******
    >>>
    >>> Let's look at this box.
    >>>
    >>> http://cradlepoint.com/products/sma...r1200b-small-business-mobile-broadband-router
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> DATA IN: USB modem (2),
    >>> ExpressCard modem (1),
    >>> 10/100 Ethernet ports (2) (cable/DSL/satellite modems),
    >>> WiFi (as WAN) wireless 2x2 MIMO “N” WiFi 2.4GHz (802.11 b/g/n)
    >>>
    >>> DATA OUT: WiFi (802.11 b/g/n), five 10/100 Ethernet ports (WAN/LAN
    >>> Switchable)
    >>>
    >>> The ExpressCard modem, is a plug-in card that fits in the router,
    >>> and connects to the phone network. That's a "tethered" application,
    >>> which your phone plan may specifically deny as an option.
    >>>
    >>> If you click the "Modem Info" tab on that page, it shows
    >>> the air cards which plug into the modem slot. You need an
    >>> air card known to work with your phone company.
    >>>
    >>> # PC/Ex Card (Ex Card Only)
    >>> * Sierra Wireless AirCard 504 [AirCard 890 by AT&T]
    >>>
    >>> *******
    >>>
    >>> In the other direction, some phone companies distribute "femtocells"
    >>> to end users. This converts an Internet connection, into a cell
    >>> tower, but with reduced reach. It allows the phone company
    >>> to extend reach, by creating miniature cell towers everywhere.
    >>> This doesn't necessarily help you, but shows how the phone
    >>> company will do things that benefit them.
    >>>
    >>> http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/2011-02-11-wireless-everywhere_N.htm
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> A phone company representative, may not want to discuss CradlePoint
    >>> with you. Unless, perhaps, you're signing up for a business class
    >>> 3G service of some sort. So try a little research on your own first,
    >>> to find out how sensitive the phone company is to "tethered"
    >>> applications. The phone company objective, is to make each Smart Phone
    >>> a "small" user of data, so everyone can have "quality of service".
    >>> It's almost the same problem, as the first cable broadband, where
    >>> the people downloading DVDs, ruined it for everyone else on their
    >>> street.
    >>>
    >>> This is, just a guess,
    >>>
    >>> Paul

    >> This particular APP is "plain" cell phone.
    >> Cell phone location: 1) inside decent signal area, nominally in city
    >> or town, and 2) outside even the suburbs, aka "boonies".
    >> Case 2 is where a "relay" or 2 would be needed to extend communication
    >> range.
    >>
    >> Thanks for the extra info.
    >>

    >
    >
    > I'm confused. Are you asking about a cellular range extender that you
    > carry with you? If you could carry an extender with you, then you would
    > not need an extender because if the extender could talk to a tower then
    > your phone could also talk to the tower.
    >
    > There are extenders that can be installed where reception is poor, but
    > these must be coonected to a PC (or Mac) and also plugged into the wall.
    > There is virtually zero in the way of mobility, and the only way that
    > that the zero can be overcome is by carrying lots of support equipment.
    > And, a range extender requires there be an internet connection. I have a
    > customer that is in townhouse where the surrounding terrain makes cell
    > reception very poor inside her house. She bought an extender device from
    > Verizon Wireless that plugged into the wall and was connected to her
    > ISP. This cured her phone troubles, but the wireless router was the
    > delivery mechanism for her data, so I'm not sure that this solution fits
    > your need.
    >
    > You know that the voice -- phone portion of the phone -- and the data
    > are completely different, right?
    >
    >

    This is in the "conceptual" phase to see what is physically possible
    using off-the-shelf items.
    The idea is to use an intermediate device to relay signals between a
    cell phone in the boonies and a tower "downtown".
    The device must be battery powered and allow the (remote) cell phone
    to be used as if it was downtown; that means, primarily, sending (the
    equivalent of) composite audio and video (while recording same on a
    removable SD card).
    Looking at the specs of some of these cell phones makes me think that
    a cell phone can act as the AP/relay for another one; that would be super.
    Robert Baer, Mar 6, 2014
    #5
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