Access Point vs Router

Discussion in 'Wireless Networking' started by =?Utf-8?B?Q2Fyb2xlIFVL?=, Dec 13, 2005.

  1. Hi there,

    I do a lot of PC support for people in my village and have set up several
    wireless networks successfully using ADSL Modem/Routers for two or more PCs
    I now have a friend who doesn't want a network - they have only one PC,
    upstairs in the office, but they don't want to run a telephone calble all the
    way up there from the main point down in the lobby.
    So - they want to just have a wireless connection from their PC to an access
    point which will be on the main telphone socket downstairs. They want to
    move to ADSL from dial-up at the same time.

    I think they need just an ADSL wireless access point rather than a router,
    but I don't really know the difference. Is the setup for an access point
    basically the same as for a router ? does it (either of them really) HAVE
    to be on the main line coming into the house, or can it be on a second line
    providing they all have filters ? (I've always put routers on the main line
    before, and I've always had the gateway cabled to the router, with just the
    other PCs using true wireless connectivity). Will it be OK to have the
    single 'gateway' PC truly wireless in this scenario ?
    Sorry to have so many questions - if you can just point me at some technical
    paper that will explain all I'll be grateful - I've had a good look but they
    all seem to assume there will be a 'network' of more than one PC.

    Thanks very much in advance.
    --
    carole UK
    =?Utf-8?B?Q2Fyb2xlIFVL?=, Dec 13, 2005
    #1
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  2. =?Utf-8?B?Q2Fyb2xlIFVL?=

    Lem Guest

    Carole UK wrote:

    > Hi there,
    >
    > I do a lot of PC support for people in my village and have set up several
    > wireless networks successfully using ADSL Modem/Routers for two or more PCs
    > I now have a friend who doesn't want a network - they have only one PC,
    > upstairs in the office, but they don't want to run a telephone calble all the
    > way up there from the main point down in the lobby.
    > So - they want to just have a wireless connection from their PC to an access
    > point which will be on the main telphone socket downstairs. They want to
    > move to ADSL from dial-up at the same time.
    >
    > I think they need just an ADSL wireless access point rather than a router,
    > but I don't really know the difference. Is the setup for an access point
    > basically the same as for a router ? does it (either of them really) HAVE
    > to be on the main line coming into the house, or can it be on a second line
    > providing they all have filters ? (I've always put routers on the main line
    > before, and I've always had the gateway cabled to the router, with just the
    > other PCs using true wireless connectivity). Will it be OK to have the
    > single 'gateway' PC truly wireless in this scenario ?
    > Sorry to have so many questions - if you can just point me at some technical
    > paper that will explain all I'll be grateful - I've had a good look but they
    > all seem to assume there will be a 'network' of more than one PC.
    >
    > Thanks very much in advance.
    > --
    > carole UK


    Look here:
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q="access point" router difference

    You should use a router. Among other benefits, most home use routers these days
    have NAT which acts as an incoming firewall (some routers also have "stateful
    packet inspection" firewalls). You can think of a router as an access point
    plus. Furthermore, a router gives your friend the option of adding another PC
    someday. Finally, they cost about the same (at least here in the US).

    I'm not sure what you mean by a second line. If you mean that the house has two
    separate telephone numbers, each line is a "main line." It's my understanding
    that all devices connected to the same telephone line (i.e. on the same number)
    must have filters (except, of course, the DSL modem itself).

    There's no problem with having only a single PC connected wirelessly to the
    router. You should, however, do the initial configuration of the router over a
    wired connection (bring your laptop).
    Lem, Dec 13, 2005
    #2
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  3. Thanks for quick response - I'll check out the link.
    By 'second line' I mean : There is the main point at which the phone line
    comes into the house, then there may be 3 or 4 other telephone points around
    the house (bedroom, lounge etc) which are 'spurs' off the main line - all
    using one number.
    I think it's quite typical in the US for homes to have 1-2 points, but it's
    quite common here in the Uk for homes to have several.
    I understand they all need filters, but I've never tried putting the gateway
    onto a spur point, rather than the main point at which the line comes into
    the property.
    --
    carole UK


    "Lem" wrote:

    > Carole UK wrote:
    >
    > > Hi there,
    > >
    > > I do a lot of PC support for people in my village and have set up several
    > > wireless networks successfully using ADSL Modem/Routers for two or more PCs
    > > I now have a friend who doesn't want a network - they have only one PC,
    > > upstairs in the office, but they don't want to run a telephone calble all the
    > > way up there from the main point down in the lobby.
    > > So - they want to just have a wireless connection from their PC to an access
    > > point which will be on the main telphone socket downstairs. They want to
    > > move to ADSL from dial-up at the same time.
    > >
    > > I think they need just an ADSL wireless access point rather than a router,
    > > but I don't really know the difference. Is the setup for an access point
    > > basically the same as for a router ? does it (either of them really) HAVE
    > > to be on the main line coming into the house, or can it be on a second line
    > > providing they all have filters ? (I've always put routers on the main line
    > > before, and I've always had the gateway cabled to the router, with just the
    > > other PCs using true wireless connectivity). Will it be OK to have the
    > > single 'gateway' PC truly wireless in this scenario ?
    > > Sorry to have so many questions - if you can just point me at some technical
    > > paper that will explain all I'll be grateful - I've had a good look but they
    > > all seem to assume there will be a 'network' of more than one PC.
    > >
    > > Thanks very much in advance.
    > > --
    > > carole UK

    >
    > Look here:
    > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q="access point" router difference
    >
    > You should use a router. Among other benefits, most home use routers these days
    > have NAT which acts as an incoming firewall (some routers also have "stateful
    > packet inspection" firewalls). You can think of a router as an access point
    > plus. Furthermore, a router gives your friend the option of adding another PC
    > someday. Finally, they cost about the same (at least here in the US).
    >
    > I'm not sure what you mean by a second line. If you mean that the house has two
    > separate telephone numbers, each line is a "main line." It's my understanding
    > that all devices connected to the same telephone line (i.e. on the same number)
    > must have filters (except, of course, the DSL modem itself).
    >
    > There's no problem with having only a single PC connected wirelessly to the
    > router. You should, however, do the initial configuration of the router over a
    > wired connection (bring your laptop).
    >
    >
    =?Utf-8?B?Q2Fyb2xlIFVL?=, Dec 13, 2005
    #3
  4. =?Utf-8?B?Q2Fyb2xlIFVL?=

    Frankster Guest

    WAPs (Wireless Access Points) are designed to be used via UTP plugged into a
    hub/switch or DSL modem. Basically, they do nothing except transmit
    everything received by that port into the air, and vice versa. If you don't
    have an available UTP port on your DSL modem, or on another hub/switch
    somewhere, you can't use a WAP. For all practical purposes, a WAP is
    nothing but a wireless UTP cable. No routing occurs.

    A Wireless router, on the other hand, does routing.

    Some DSL modems come with both UTP and Wireless capability. If so, you
    won't need any other unit at all. If the DSL modem comes with a UTP port
    but no wireless, you can use that UTP port to plug a WAP into.

    -Frank

    "Carole UK" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi there,
    >
    > I do a lot of PC support for people in my village and have set up several
    > wireless networks successfully using ADSL Modem/Routers for two or more
    > PCs
    > I now have a friend who doesn't want a network - they have only one PC,
    > upstairs in the office, but they don't want to run a telephone calble all
    > the
    > way up there from the main point down in the lobby.
    > So - they want to just have a wireless connection from their PC to an
    > access
    > point which will be on the main telphone socket downstairs. They want to
    > move to ADSL from dial-up at the same time.
    >
    > I think they need just an ADSL wireless access point rather than a router,
    > but I don't really know the difference. Is the setup for an access point
    > basically the same as for a router ? does it (either of them really)
    > HAVE
    > to be on the main line coming into the house, or can it be on a second
    > line
    > providing they all have filters ? (I've always put routers on the main
    > line
    > before, and I've always had the gateway cabled to the router, with just
    > the
    > other PCs using true wireless connectivity). Will it be OK to have the
    > single 'gateway' PC truly wireless in this scenario ?
    > Sorry to have so many questions - if you can just point me at some
    > technical
    > paper that will explain all I'll be grateful - I've had a good look but
    > they
    > all seem to assume there will be a 'network' of more than one PC.
    >
    > Thanks very much in advance.
    > --
    > carole UK
    Frankster, Dec 13, 2005
    #4
  5. =?Utf-8?B?Q2Fyb2xlIFVL?=

    Lem Guest

    We typically call these "extensions." I can't think of any theoretical reason why
    connecting a DSL modem on a remote extension would matter. On the other hand, the
    closer you are to the point at which the phone line enters the house, the less likely
    it is that you will run into problems with interior wiring. Many DSL troubleshooting
    guides suggest testing at the point where the line enters the house in order to
    eliminate problems caused by faults in interior wiring.

    In fact, many installers recommend bypassing all of the interior wiring by installing
    a splitter at the "network interfice device" or NID (the point where the phone line
    enters the house) and running a dedicated DSL-only line from there to wherever you
    want to have the "gateway" device (e.g., the wireless router). See, for example,
    http://www.hometech.com/learn/dsl.html and http://www.homephonewiring.com/dsl.html
    (just 2 random sites out of many).

    Carole UK wrote:

    > Thanks for quick response - I'll check out the link.
    > By 'second line' I mean : There is the main point at which the phone line
    > comes into the house, then there may be 3 or 4 other telephone points around
    > the house (bedroom, lounge etc) which are 'spurs' off the main line - all
    > using one number.
    > I think it's quite typical in the US for homes to have 1-2 points, but it's
    > quite common here in the Uk for homes to have several.
    > I understand they all need filters, but I've never tried putting the gateway
    > onto a spur point, rather than the main point at which the line comes into
    > the property.
    > --
    > carole UK
    >
    > "Lem" wrote:
    >
    > > Carole UK wrote:
    > >
    > > > Hi there,
    > > >
    > > > I do a lot of PC support for people in my village and have set up several
    > > > wireless networks successfully using ADSL Modem/Routers for two or more PCs
    > > > I now have a friend who doesn't want a network - they have only one PC,
    > > > upstairs in the office, but they don't want to run a telephone calble all the
    > > > way up there from the main point down in the lobby.
    > > > So - they want to just have a wireless connection from their PC to an access
    > > > point which will be on the main telphone socket downstairs. They want to
    > > > move to ADSL from dial-up at the same time.
    > > >
    > > > I think they need just an ADSL wireless access point rather than a router,
    > > > but I don't really know the difference. Is the setup for an access point
    > > > basically the same as for a router ? does it (either of them really) HAVE
    > > > to be on the main line coming into the house, or can it be on a second line
    > > > providing they all have filters ? (I've always put routers on the main line
    > > > before, and I've always had the gateway cabled to the router, with just the
    > > > other PCs using true wireless connectivity). Will it be OK to have the
    > > > single 'gateway' PC truly wireless in this scenario ?
    > > > Sorry to have so many questions - if you can just point me at some technical
    > > > paper that will explain all I'll be grateful - I've had a good look but they
    > > > all seem to assume there will be a 'network' of more than one PC.
    > > >
    > > > Thanks very much in advance.
    > > > --
    > > > carole UK

    > >
    > > Look here:
    > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q="access point" router difference
    > >
    > > You should use a router. Among other benefits, most home use routers these days
    > > have NAT which acts as an incoming firewall (some routers also have "stateful
    > > packet inspection" firewalls). You can think of a router as an access point
    > > plus. Furthermore, a router gives your friend the option of adding another PC
    > > someday. Finally, they cost about the same (at least here in the US).
    > >
    > > I'm not sure what you mean by a second line. If you mean that the house has two
    > > separate telephone numbers, each line is a "main line." It's my understanding
    > > that all devices connected to the same telephone line (i.e. on the same number)
    > > must have filters (except, of course, the DSL modem itself).
    > >
    > > There's no problem with having only a single PC connected wirelessly to the
    > > router. You should, however, do the initial configuration of the router over a
    > > wired connection (bring your laptop).
    > >
    > >
    Lem, Dec 13, 2005
    #5
  6. =?Utf-8?B?Q2Fyb2xlIFVL?=

    Bill Whipple Guest

    I have put ADSL connections on various different connections within
    residential and commercial setups and have seen really no difference from
    one point to another within a house or office, as long as the in-house
    wiring is done correctly. The Telco's I have dealt with in the U.S. say
    there should be no difference except for the quality of the in-house wiring
    unless you are on the absolute fringe of an acceptable distance from the
    switch room.

    As far as whether to use an Access Point or Router, part of it depends on
    how complex your ADSL Modem/Router is and what you want to do. If the
    primary DSL Modem also has a built-in router with firewall, NAT, VPN support
    and routing tables, then there is really no need to put yet another router
    into the picture. If it is just a single-connect ADSL modem or a ADSL modem
    with something like a 4-port hub then you might want to use a wireless
    router for the added protection of the firewall and other utilities.

    For your description of a single computer connecting wirelessly to the ADSL
    modem, it looks like you would be able to get by fine with just the Access
    Point. If they might ever have a second system connecting in then it might
    be good to invest a little bit more up front and get the Router, the price
    difference between most of these is fairly small in my experience. Another
    point, you say you usually use routers - you will be more familiar with the
    router setup and you are more likely to have a spare available if there is a
    problem in the future.

    HTH
    --
    WLW

    "Carole UK" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thanks for quick response - I'll check out the link.
    > By 'second line' I mean : There is the main point at which the phone
    > line
    > comes into the house, then there may be 3 or 4 other telephone points
    > around
    > the house (bedroom, lounge etc) which are 'spurs' off the main line - all
    > using one number.
    > I think it's quite typical in the US for homes to have 1-2 points, but
    > it's
    > quite common here in the Uk for homes to have several.
    > I understand they all need filters, but I've never tried putting the
    > gateway
    > onto a spur point, rather than the main point at which the line comes into
    > the property.
    > --
    > carole UK
    >
    >
    > "Lem" wrote:
    >
    >> Carole UK wrote:
    >>
    >> > Hi there,
    >> >
    >> > I do a lot of PC support for people in my village and have set up
    >> > several
    >> > wireless networks successfully using ADSL Modem/Routers for two or more
    >> > PCs
    >> > I now have a friend who doesn't want a network - they have only one PC,
    >> > upstairs in the office, but they don't want to run a telephone calble
    >> > all the
    >> > way up there from the main point down in the lobby.
    >> > So - they want to just have a wireless connection from their PC to an
    >> > access
    >> > point which will be on the main telphone socket downstairs. They want
    >> > to
    >> > move to ADSL from dial-up at the same time.
    >> >
    >> > I think they need just an ADSL wireless access point rather than a
    >> > router,
    >> > but I don't really know the difference. Is the setup for an access
    >> > point
    >> > basically the same as for a router ? does it (either of them really)
    >> > HAVE
    >> > to be on the main line coming into the house, or can it be on a second
    >> > line
    >> > providing they all have filters ? (I've always put routers on the main
    >> > line
    >> > before, and I've always had the gateway cabled to the router, with just
    >> > the
    >> > other PCs using true wireless connectivity). Will it be OK to have the
    >> > single 'gateway' PC truly wireless in this scenario ?
    >> > Sorry to have so many questions - if you can just point me at some
    >> > technical
    >> > paper that will explain all I'll be grateful - I've had a good look but
    >> > they
    >> > all seem to assume there will be a 'network' of more than one PC.
    >> >
    >> > Thanks very much in advance.
    >> > --
    >> > carole UK

    >>
    >> Look here:
    >> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q="access point" router difference
    >>
    >> You should use a router. Among other benefits, most home use routers
    >> these days
    >> have NAT which acts as an incoming firewall (some routers also have
    >> "stateful
    >> packet inspection" firewalls). You can think of a router as an access
    >> point
    >> plus. Furthermore, a router gives your friend the option of adding
    >> another PC
    >> someday. Finally, they cost about the same (at least here in the US).
    >>
    >> I'm not sure what you mean by a second line. If you mean that the house
    >> has two
    >> separate telephone numbers, each line is a "main line." It's my
    >> understanding
    >> that all devices connected to the same telephone line (i.e. on the same
    >> number)
    >> must have filters (except, of course, the DSL modem itself).
    >>
    >> There's no problem with having only a single PC connected wirelessly to
    >> the
    >> router. You should, however, do the initial configuration of the router
    >> over a
    >> wired connection (bring your laptop).
    >>
    >>
    Bill Whipple, Dec 13, 2005
    #6
  7. Per Lem:
    >In fact, many installers recommend bypassing all of the interior wiring by installing
    >a splitter at the "network interfice device" or NID (the point where the phone line
    >enters the house) and running a dedicated DSL-only line from there to wherever you
    >want to have the "gateway" device (e.g., the wireless router).


    I leave my WAP/Router and my DSL modem powered on 24-7 so I can connect with my
    Palm Pilot any time.

    Given the 24-7 operation of those two devices, am I hearing an argument here for
    locating them right at the phone company's customer interface and WiFi-ing
    everything else into them?

    My Ethernet is 10 mbps. The WiFi stuff is "G". So I wouldn't notice any diff
    in speed...

    Seems like the additional cost could be the diff between the cost of an extra
    WiFi adapter for one PC vs the cost of the cable for a dedicated line from the
    POTS interface to that same PC.

    Anybody see a problem with this scheme?
    --
    PeteCresswell
    (PeteCresswell), Dec 13, 2005
    #7
  8. =?Utf-8?B?Q2Fyb2xlIFVL?=

    Bill Whipple Guest

    Hi, Pete -

    > Anybody see a problem with this scheme?


    Distance and intervening walls, electrical equipment, other networks, etc.,
    could degrade the quality and reliability of the signal. Also, unless you
    enable WPA you are leaving yourself open to some fairly serious security
    issues. Other than these things... no other 'good' reasons come to mind.
    --
    WLW

    "(PeteCresswell)" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Per Lem:
    >>In fact, many installers recommend bypassing all of the interior wiring by
    >>installing
    >>a splitter at the "network interfice device" or NID (the point where the
    >>phone line
    >>enters the house) and running a dedicated DSL-only line from there to
    >>wherever you
    >>want to have the "gateway" device (e.g., the wireless router).

    >
    > I leave my WAP/Router and my DSL modem powered on 24-7 so I can connect
    > with my
    > Palm Pilot any time.
    >
    > Given the 24-7 operation of those two devices, am I hearing an argument
    > here for
    > locating them right at the phone company's customer interface and WiFi-ing
    > everything else into them?
    >
    > My Ethernet is 10 mbps. The WiFi stuff is "G". So I wouldn't notice any
    > diff
    > in speed...
    >
    > Seems like the additional cost could be the diff between the cost of an
    > extra
    > WiFi adapter for one PC vs the cost of the cable for a dedicated line from
    > the
    > POTS interface to that same PC.
    >
    > Anybody see a problem with this scheme?
    > --
    > PeteCresswell
    Bill Whipple, Dec 13, 2005
    #8
  9. Hi
    May be this can Help.
    Wireless Cable/DSL Router or Access Point - What should I get?
    http://www.ezlan.net/APvsRoute.html
    Wireless Router as an AP, http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html
    What the Signal Strength Bars mean in Wireless hardware?
    http://www.ezlan.net/wbars.html
    Extending Distance, http://www.ezlan.net/Distance.html
    Jack (MVP-Networking).


    "Carole UK" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi there,
    >
    > I do a lot of PC support for people in my village and have set up several
    > wireless networks successfully using ADSL Modem/Routers for two or more
    > PCs
    > I now have a friend who doesn't want a network - they have only one PC,
    > upstairs in the office, but they don't want to run a telephone calble all
    > the
    > way up there from the main point down in the lobby.
    > So - they want to just have a wireless connection from their PC to an
    > access
    > point which will be on the main telphone socket downstairs. They want to
    > move to ADSL from dial-up at the same time.
    >
    > I think they need just an ADSL wireless access point rather than a router,
    > but I don't really know the difference. Is the setup for an access point
    > basically the same as for a router ? does it (either of them really)
    > HAVE
    > to be on the main line coming into the house, or can it be on a second
    > line
    > providing they all have filters ? (I've always put routers on the main
    > line
    > before, and I've always had the gateway cabled to the router, with just
    > the
    > other PCs using true wireless connectivity). Will it be OK to have the
    > single 'gateway' PC truly wireless in this scenario ?
    > Sorry to have so many questions - if you can just point me at some
    > technical
    > paper that will explain all I'll be grateful - I've had a good look but
    > they
    > all seem to assume there will be a 'network' of more than one PC.
    >
    > Thanks very much in advance.
    > --
    > carole UK
    Jack \(MVP-Networking\)., Dec 14, 2005
    #9
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