Academic Software

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Tony McKee, Jul 24, 2003.

  1. Tony McKee

    Tony McKee Guest

    Yo, Folks!

    Something I've been meaning to ask for yonks:

    Is there any difference between 'academic' software packages and normal
    retail packages?

    For eg: Adobe sells a Photoshop bundle for around $NZ 2,300; but the
    academic version of the same sells for about $NZ 900 (example prices only
    but I think they're not too far off the mark).

    Is a non-student buyer getting anything extra for forking over the full
    commercial price?

    ....Or is it time for the canny Scotsman in me to pretend he's a student
    again! ;-)


    Cheers, Tony McKee

    --

    ---
    I am a part of all that I have met... yet all experience is but an arch
    Wherethro' gleams that untravel'd world whose margins fade
    Forever and forever... 'ere I move.

    ===-- Ulysses --===
     
    Tony McKee, Jul 24, 2003
    #1
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  2. Tony McKee

    Enkidu Guest

    On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:26:18 +1200, "Tony McKee" <>
    wrote:
    >
    >...Or is it time for the canny Scotsman in me to pretend he's a student
    >again! ;-)
    >
    >Cheers, Tony McKee
    >

    Getcha self a student ID card. Or a student in the family.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    Signed and sealed with Great Seal of the Executive
    Council of the Internet, by The Master of The Net.
     
    Enkidu, Jul 24, 2003
    #2
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  3. Tony McKee

    Mainlander Guest

    In article <ywOTa.90757$>,
    says...
    > Yo, Folks!
    >
    > Something I've been meaning to ask for yonks:
    >
    > Is there any difference between 'academic' software packages and normal
    > retail packages?


    In most cases the license terms forbid you for using it for other than
    instructive or tuition. Most of the software I have used under A/L is
    fully functional.

    > For eg: Adobe sells a Photoshop bundle for around $NZ 2,300; but the
    > academic version of the same sells for about $NZ 900 (example prices only
    > but I think they're not too far off the mark).
    >
    > Is a non-student buyer getting anything extra for forking over the full
    > commercial price?


    Yes, they are getting the ability to use the software for commercial
    purposes.
     
    Mainlander, Jul 24, 2003
    #3
  4. Tony McKee

    Steve Guest

    Tony McKee allegedly said:

    > Yo, Folks!
    >
    > Something I've been meaning to ask for yonks:
    >
    > Is there any difference between 'academic' software packages and normal
    > retail packages?


    They both come from proprietary software vendors who impose marketing-driven
    limitations on the use of their software.

    If you use open Source software, these issues don't exist - or are the rare
    exception.

    --
    Steve
     
    Steve, Jul 24, 2003
    #4
  5. Tony McKee

    Who is this Guest

    In article <ywOTa.90757$>,
    "Tony McKee" <> wrote:

    > Yo, Folks!
    >
    > Something I've been meaning to ask for yonks:
    >
    > Is there any difference between 'academic' software packages and normal
    > retail packages?
    >


    Yes, you are NOT allowed to use the accademic software for any
    commercial puposes.
     
    Who is this, Jul 24, 2003
    #5
  6. Tony McKee

    Who is this Guest

    In article <eKPTa.7044$>,
    Steve <> wrote:

    >
    > They both come from proprietary software vendors who impose marketing-driven
    > limitations on the use of their software.
    >
    > If you use open Source software, these issues don't exist - or are the rare
    > exception.


    Apart from the fatc that commercial software is a standard which other
    commercial companies use and require file compatability. Also the fact
    that GIMP sucks big time, its interface design is terrible, so bad in
    fact that I dumped it within hours and went back to an old version of
    photoshop.

    The cost of the software is only a smaill fraction of the costs of
    running a computer commercially, it is the person who sits behind it
    that is the most expensive component.

    Much of the work I do is charged out at $100/hr, so over the life of the
    software (lets say 3 years), I only need 20 hours more productive time
    and the software has paid for itsself, that is 7 hours per year, or
    about 2 1/2 minutes per working day. I would however loose more hours of
    productivity than that just installing, confirguring and learning such a
    non-standard package, never mind the fact that I believe photoshop is
    actually a better package by a long margin.
     
    Who is this, Jul 24, 2003
    #6
  7. Tony McKee

    Mainlander Guest

    In article <eKPTa.7044$>,
    says...
    > Tony McKee allegedly said:
    >
    > > Yo, Folks!
    > >
    > > Something I've been meaning to ask for yonks:
    > >
    > > Is there any difference between 'academic' software packages and normal
    > > retail packages?

    >
    > They both come from proprietary software vendors who impose marketing-driven
    > limitations on the use of their software.
    >
    > If you use open Source software, these issues don't exist - or are the rare
    > exception.


    Show me an open source programmer who doesn't earn money for their work
    in real life.

    The issue is ideological - MS or anyone has to right to charge for their
    work.

    The linux community has not helped themselves by producing blatant clones
    of successful commercial packages.
     
    Mainlander, Jul 24, 2003
    #7
  8. Tony McKee

    Gavin Tunney Guest

    On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:26:18 +1200, "Tony McKee" <>
    wrote:

    >Yo, Folks!
    >
    >Something I've been meaning to ask for yonks:
    >
    >Is there any difference between 'academic' software packages and normal
    >retail packages?
    >
    >For eg: Adobe sells a Photoshop bundle for around $NZ 2,300; but the
    >academic version of the same sells for about $NZ 900 (example prices only
    >but I think they're not too far off the mark).
    >
    >Is a non-student buyer getting anything extra for forking over the full
    >commercial price?
    >
    >...Or is it time for the canny Scotsman in me to pretend he's a student
    >again! ;-)
    >
    >
    >Cheers, Tony McKee


    They're always the same Tony. Academic licences, and the reduced
    prices that go with them, are just a means of getting students to use
    commercial software which they normally couldn't afford to buy.
    There's nothing philanthropic about it though, just manipulative
    marketing. Get people using your software at school and they'll
    continue to use it in the workplace.

    It's a typical example of the hazy legal cloud that hangs over
    software licensing, because it's a classic case of discriminatory
    pricing. Legislators have left software in the 'too hard' basket for
    years, and it will probably stay that way.

    One of the unanswered questions is whether your licence is still legal
    when you no longer qualify as 'academic'.......ie leave school or
    'varsity etc. I have the strong suspicion it isn't.

    Gavin
     
    Gavin Tunney, Jul 24, 2003
    #8
  9. Tony McKee

    colinco Guest

    In article <>, Mainlander
    wrote...
    > The linux community has not helped themselves by producing blatant clones
    > of successful commercial packages.
    >

    The correct model is to buy-out your competion :)
     
    colinco, Jul 24, 2003
    #9
  10. Tony McKee

    Keith Guest

    In article <ywOTa.90757$>,
    says...
    > Yo, Folks!
    >
    > Something I've been meaning to ask for yonks:
    >
    > Is there any difference between 'academic' software packages and normal
    > retail packages?
    >
    > For eg: Adobe sells a Photoshop bundle for around $NZ 2,300; but the
    > academic version of the same sells for about $NZ 900 (example prices only
    > but I think they're not too far off the mark).
    >
    > Is a non-student buyer getting anything extra for forking over the full
    > commercial price?
    >
    > ...Or is it time for the canny Scotsman in me to pretend he's a student
    > again! ;-)


    Apart from the non-academic use provision others have mentioned there
    *are* other caveats.

    For instance the student version of XP Office has no upgrade rights, you
    have to pay full whack (academic or plain) for the next version. I don't
    know about other M$ academic offerings but I bet they have the same
    limitation.

    Another thing is that many big applications have components that are
    licenced from other providers. For instance the equation editor in both
    Word and WordPerfect are licenced from the same third party. The OEM and
    academic versions of WordPerfect are lacking some of the third party
    components that exist in the full product. That is one of the reasons why
    they can offer the product at such a reduced price.

    The last point probably doesn't apply to Microsoft products however
    because they could afford to offer a full version as a loss leader.
     
    Keith, Jul 25, 2003
    #10
  11. Tony McKee

    Adam Warner Guest

    Hi Gavin Tunney,

    > One of the unanswered questions is whether your licence is still legal
    > when you no longer qualify as 'academic'.......ie leave school or
    > 'varsity etc. I have the strong suspicion it isn't.


    Microsoft now claims that it is not even legal while you are still at
    school or university if you attempt to earn a dollar to supplement your
    fees (where the software is relevant, of course, it would count as
    commercial use) or even if you dare to let your parents type a letter with
    the software:

    <http://www.microsoft.com/nz/office/how/forstudents.mspx>

    Licensing Restrictions

    - This product is for noncommercial, educational use only

    - This is a personal learning license for qualified educational users
    only. (Example: In a household, only the students are eligible to use
    the software, however parents can use the software when assisting
    students.)

    - You may install this product on only one computer. If you have more
    than one computer, you are required to purchase a separate product
    license for each

    - This product does not qualify for future upgrade pricing

    - You may not transfer your usage rights to another individual

    - You are only eligible to use this product while you are a qualified
    educational user

    - Microsoft provides support for installation of this product only

    If the comma in "noncommercial, educational use only" is a conjoint
    ("and") then perhaps you may not even use it for non-profit, community
    work.

    It's a terrible deal for any current student who may try to earn some
    computer-related income. One either flushes the money down the drain
    because one has to buy a FULL retail version anyway ("This product does
    not qualify for future upgrade pricing" and "You may not transfer your
    usage rights to another individual"--this being a claim the student cannot
    even sell his or her second hand retail product for the education use of
    another student) or one learns the value and price of (ignoring) divisive
    and unreasonable rules (what a terrible position to place children in that
    they must refuse to let their parents use the software unless the parents
    are only assisting them--the student hasn't even purchased a per-computer
    licence).

    We still need to know how the licence agreement reads as the Microsoft web
    page is just a summary.

    Students, some food for thought (designed to encourage ideas, they're not
    necessarily right):
    http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/07/12/WebsThePlace
    http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/07/14/ShareCrop2

    Regards,
    Adam
     
    Adam Warner, Jul 25, 2003
    #11
  12. Tony McKee

    Keith Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Hi Gavin Tunney,
    >
    > > One of the unanswered questions is whether your licence is still legal
    > > when you no longer qualify as 'academic'.......ie leave school or
    > > 'varsity etc. I have the strong suspicion it isn't.

    >
    > Microsoft now claims that it is not even legal while you are still at
    > school or university if you attempt to earn a dollar to supplement your
    > fees (where the software is relevant, of course, it would count as
    > commercial use) or even if you dare to let your parents type a letter with
    > the software:
    >
    > <http://www.microsoft.com/nz/office/how/forstudents.mspx>
    >
    > Licensing Restrictions
    >
    > - This product is for noncommercial, educational use only
    >
    > - This is a personal learning license for qualified educational users
    > only. (Example: In a household, only the students are eligible to use
    > the software, however parents can use the software when assisting
    > students.)
    >
    > - You may install this product on only one computer. If you have more
    > than one computer, you are required to purchase a separate product
    > license for each
    >
    > - This product does not qualify for future upgrade pricing
    >
    > - You may not transfer your usage rights to another individual
    >
    > - You are only eligible to use this product while you are a qualified
    > educational user
    >
    > - Microsoft provides support for installation of this product only


    The irony in all this is that M$ will sell this "...qualified educational
    users only..." licence to anyone with the dosh. How serious are they
    really?
     
    Keith, Jul 25, 2003
    #12
  13. Tony McKee

    Adam Warner Guest

    Hi Who is this,

    > Also the fact that GIMP sucks big time, its interface design is
    > terrible, so bad in fact that I dumped it within hours and went back to
    > an old version of photoshop.


    One cannot evaluate the usability of such a complicated product like the
    GIMP within hours before dumping it. Just recently it all started to click
    for me after using the GIMP on and off for a couple of years (and I had to
    refer to some documentation). I'm also appreciating the much improved 1.3
    release.

    You are confusing unfamiliarity with an interface designed for expert use.

    I understand the rest of your point (snipped) that you are more productive
    with Adobe Photoshop. This is partially because you have a lot more
    application-specific learning. Correspondingly I would be initially less
    productive trying to use Adobe Photoshop instead of the GIMP.

    If one becomes a good programmer GIMP-specific knowledge could be far more
    valuable than Adobe Photoshop-specific knowledge. This is because Adobe
    doesn't allow Photoshop to be automated to the point where everyone doesn't
    need to licence their own copy.

    Refer to page 44 of this PDF for Adobe's English EULA:
    http://www.adobe.com/products/eulas/pdfs/genWW_EULA.pdf

    2.2. Server Use. You may install one copy of the Software on your
    computer file server for the purpose of downloading and installing the
    Software onto other computers within your internal network up to the
    Permitted Number or you may install one copy of the Software on a
    computer file server within your internal network for the sole and
    exclusive purpose of using the Software through commands, data or
    instructions (e.g. scripts) from another computer on your internal
    network, provided that the total number of users that access or Use the
    Software on such computer file server, does not exceed the Permitted
    Number. No other network use is permitted, including but not limited
    to, using the Software either directly or through commands, data or
    instructions from or to a computer not part of your internal network,
    for internet or web hosting services or by any user not Licenced to use
    this copy of the Software through a valid Licence from Adobe; and

    Regards,
    Adam
     
    Adam Warner, Jul 25, 2003
    #13
  14. On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 07:56:33 +1200, Who is this wrote:


    > Apart from the fatc that commercial software is a standard which other
    > commercial companies use and require file compatability. Also the fact
    > that GIMP sucks big time, its interface design is terrible, so bad in
    > fact that I dumped it within hours and went back to an old version of
    > photoshop.


    So redesign it and submit the changes back to the developers.

    That's the advantage of opensource.
     
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Jul 25, 2003
    #14
  15. Tony McKee

    Mainlander Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Hi Gavin Tunney,
    >
    > > One of the unanswered questions is whether your licence is still legal
    > > when you no longer qualify as 'academic'.......ie leave school or
    > > 'varsity etc. I have the strong suspicion it isn't.

    >
    > Microsoft now claims that it is not even legal while you are still at
    > school or university if you attempt to earn a dollar to supplement your
    > fees (where the software is relevant, of course, it would count as
    > commercial use) or even if you dare to let your parents type a letter with
    > the software:
    >
    > <http://www.microsoft.com/nz/office/how/forstudents.mspx>
    >
    > Licensing Restrictions
    >
    > - This product is for noncommercial, educational use only
    >
    > - This is a personal learning license for qualified educational users
    > only. (Example: In a household, only the students are eligible to use
    > the software, however parents can use the software when assisting
    > students.)
    >
    > - You may install this product on only one computer. If you have more
    > than one computer, you are required to purchase a separate product
    > license for each
    >
    > - This product does not qualify for future upgrade pricing
    >
    > - You may not transfer your usage rights to another individual
    >
    > - You are only eligible to use this product while you are a qualified
    > educational user
    >
    > - Microsoft provides support for installation of this product only
    >
    > If the comma in "noncommercial, educational use only" is a conjoint
    > ("and") then perhaps you may not even use it for non-profit, community
    > work.
    >
    > It's a terrible deal for any current student who may try to earn some
    > computer-related income. One either flushes the money down the drain
    > because one has to buy a FULL retail version anyway ("This product does
    > not qualify for future upgrade pricing" and "You may not transfer your
    > usage rights to another individual"--this being a claim the student cannot
    > even sell his or her second hand retail product for the education use of
    > another student) or one learns the value and price of (ignoring) divisive
    > and unreasonable rules (what a terrible position to place children in that
    > they must refuse to let their parents use the software unless the parents
    > are only assisting them--the student hasn't even purchased a per-computer
    > licence).
    >
    > We still need to know how the licence agreement reads as the Microsoft web
    > page is just a summary.
    >
    > Students, some food for thought (designed to encourage ideas, they're not
    > necessarily right):
    > http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/07/12/WebsThePlace
    > http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/07/14/ShareCrop2


    The software is sold at a special low price for instructive purposes
    only. MS are by no means the only supplier and there is other software
    out there that sells for far far more than Office.

    You are obviously not eligible to transfer to another user because MS
    have no way of validating that they are an educational user.
     
    Mainlander, Jul 25, 2003
    #15
  16. Tony McKee

    SNOman Guest

    "Tony McKee" <> wrote in message
    news:ywOTa.90757$...
    > Yo, Folks!
    >
    > Something I've been meaning to ask for yonks:
    >
    > Is there any difference between 'academic' software packages and normal
    > retail packages?
    >
    > For eg: Adobe sells a Photoshop bundle for around $NZ 2,300; but the
    > academic version of the same sells for about $NZ 900 (example prices only
    > but I think they're not too far off the mark).
    >
    > Is a non-student buyer getting anything extra for forking over the full
    > commercial price?
    >
    > ...Or is it time for the canny Scotsman in me to pretend he's a student
    > again! ;-)
    >
    >
    > Cheers, Tony McKee
    >
    > --
    >
    > ---
    > I am a part of all that I have met... yet all experience is but an arch
    > Wherethro' gleams that untravel'd world whose margins fade
    > Forever and forever... 'ere I move.
    >
    > ===-- Ulysses --===
    >
    >


    Each software company may have a different definition of an academic user.
    Microsofts is

    http://www.microsoft.com/nz/education/user.mspx
     
    SNOman, Jul 25, 2003
    #16
  17. Tony McKee

    T.N.O. Guest

    colinco wrote
    > The correct model is to buy-out your competion :)


    Thats why I think MS is having such trouble with Linux/OSS, Bill
    simply cant throw money at the companies and buy them because there
    are no "companies". The Linux fullas have taken money out of the
    equation, probably the smartest thing to do, however, it will be
    interesting to see what happens in the next 10-15 years I feel.
     
    T.N.O., Jul 25, 2003
    #17
  18. Tony McKee

    Adam Warner Guest

    Hi SNOman,

    > Each software company may have a different definition of an academic user.
    > Microsofts is
    >
    > http://www.microsoft.com/nz/education/user.mspx


    What???

    The Following Are Not Eligible To Purchase Academic Edition Products:
    - Non-education customers
    - Primary and Secondary students
    - Parents of Higher Education or Primary and Secondary students
    - Another reseller
    - Customers residing outside New Zealand
    - Students participating in short courses or vocational

    Anyone else very surprised that primary and secondary school students
    cannot purchase MS academic edition products?

    Regards,
    Adam
     
    Adam Warner, Jul 25, 2003
    #18
  19. Tony McKee

    Tony McKee Guest

    "Tony McKee" <> wrote in message
    news:ywOTa.90757$...
    > Yo, Folks!
    >
    > Something I've been meaning to ask for yonks:


    ....<snippety snippety snip>...


    Yo, Folks!

    Thanks muchly for all the informative replies - certainly started an
    'educational thread' with this one!

    Well... since the intended purchase will likely result in commercial
    outcomes, and thus will likely require manufacturer support and upgrades,
    not to mention intra-organisational compatibilities, I better go the whole
    hog and fork over the full whack. How's that for commerce 101 sprinkled over
    mixed metaphors! Could be the start of a whole new breakfast here. ;-)


    Cheers, Tony McKee

    --

    ---
    I am a part of all that I have met... yet all experience is but an arch
    Wherethro' gleams that untravel'd world whose margins fade
    Forever and forever... 'ere I move.

    ===-- Ulysses --===
     
    Tony McKee, Jul 25, 2003
    #19
  20. Tony McKee

    Mainlander Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Hi SNOman,
    >
    > > Each software company may have a different definition of an academic user.
    > > Microsofts is
    > >
    > > http://www.microsoft.com/nz/education/user.mspx

    >
    > What???
    >
    > The Following Are Not Eligible To Purchase Academic Edition Products:
    > - Non-education customers
    > - Primary and Secondary students
    > - Parents of Higher Education or Primary and Secondary students
    > - Another reseller
    > - Customers residing outside New Zealand
    > - Students participating in short courses or vocational
    >
    > Anyone else very surprised that primary and secondary school students
    > cannot purchase MS academic edition products?


    No. They're aiming at tertiary education.
     
    Mainlander, Jul 25, 2003
    #20
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