About Port 25

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 8, 2006.

  1. http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/3863/

    Funny!


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    Martin Taylor, GM of platform strategy at Microsoft: "We found
    that the Linux environment provided about 15 percent more end
    user loss of productivity." - *provided MORE loss of productivity*
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 8, 2006
    #1
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  2. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Steven H Guest

    Hello Have A Nice Cup of Tea,

    personally i find it funny that these self professed 'real administrators'
    cant administor a Windows Server box without constant reboots. my server
    2003 box has been up since i shifted into my current residence (shifted in
    jan), so how the hell do these 'real administrators' get on.

    ----------------
    the madGeek

    > http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/3863/
    >
    > Funny!
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >
     
    Steven H, Apr 8, 2006
    #2
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  3. On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 04:16:57 +0000, Steven H wrote:

    > personally i find it funny that these self professed 'real administrators'
    > cant administor a Windows Server box without constant reboots. my server
    > 2003 box has been up since i shifted into my current residence (shifted in
    > jan), so how the hell do these 'real administrators' get on.


    I think that it's most likely that they're clueless MSCE types.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    Martin Taylor, GM of platform strategy at Microsoft: "We found
    that the Linux environment provided about 15 percent more end
    user loss of productivity." - *provided MORE loss of productivity*
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 8, 2006
    #3
  4. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Steven H Guest

    Hello Have A Nice Cup of Tea,

    > I think that it's most likely that they're clueless MSCE types.


    lol very funny.

    i write software, i dont admin servers - i havent had any issues admining
    mine so how the hell can it be so damn complex as to require monthly defrags,
    multiple reboots.

    ----------------
    Steven H

    the madGeek

    > On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 04:16:57 +0000, Steven H wrote:
    >
    >> personally i find it funny that these self professed 'real
    >> administrators' cant administor a Windows Server box without constant
    >> reboots. my server 2003 box has been up since i shifted into my
    >> current residence (shifted in jan), so how the hell do these 'real
    >> administrators' get on.
    >>

    > I think that it's most likely that they're clueless MSCE types.
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >
     
    Steven H, Apr 8, 2006
    #4
  5. On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 07:29:51 +0000, Steven H wrote:

    > i write software, i dont admin servers - i havent had any issues admining
    > mine so how the hell can it be so damn complex as to require monthly defrags,
    > multiple reboots.


    I dunno.

    My Unix file server has never needed its discs defragmented. My Linux
    desktop likewise has never needed the discs defragmented.

    Why should M$ Windows need to have that done to it?

    Can't M$ Windows take care of that sort of thing automatically?


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    Jono Bacon: "I deal with companies every day that are moving over to
    Linux, and it does all the things that they want."
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 8, 2006
    #5
  6. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 16:58:16 +1200, Have A Nice Cup of Tea <>
    exclaimed:

    >On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 04:16:57 +0000, Steven H wrote:
    >
    >> personally i find it funny that these self professed 'real administrators'
    >> cant administor a Windows Server box without constant reboots. my server
    >> 2003 box has been up since i shifted into my current residence (shifted in
    >> jan), so how the hell do these 'real administrators' get on.

    >
    >I think that it's most likely that they're clueless MSCE types.


    It's funny how cowboys always make fun of certified professionals...

    Really sticks out like a sore thumb.
     
    Fred Dagg, Apr 8, 2006
    #6
  7. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    David Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 07:29:51 +0000, Steven H wrote:
    >
    >> i write software, i dont admin servers - i havent had any issues admining
    >> mine so how the hell can it be so damn complex as to require monthly defrags,
    >> multiple reboots.

    >
    > I dunno.
    >
    > My Unix file server has never needed its discs defragmented. My Linux
    > desktop likewise has never needed the discs defragmented.
    >
    > Why should M$ Windows need to have that done to it?
    >
    > Can't M$ Windows take care of that sort of thing automatically?
    >
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >


    What if your server actually served, received and modified files
    constantly all day? What if your Desktop was used for editing video or
    compiling huge software projects for 8 hours a day?
     
    David, Apr 9, 2006
    #7
  8. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Steven H Guest

    Hello Have A Nice Cup of Tea,

    > My Unix file server has never needed its discs defragmented. My Linux
    > desktop likewise has never needed the discs defragmented.


    niether do NTFS disks.

    i actually thaught you knew this but a NTFS file system will natually migrate
    often accessed files to a faster area of the disk. part of this will mean
    that larger files (larger than the cluster size) will be chained together,
    it also means that you will get slower access to files that are not used
    reguraly because they are on a slow part of the disk or are shitsplattered
    all over the platter(s) - its a tradeoff.

    > Why should M$ Windows need to have that done to it?


    personally i think it comes down to people leaning on their previous experience.
    i dont know what previous NTFS systems were like in this reguards but we
    all know that FAT baised systems required defragmenting on a regular basis.

    mabye its the 'this is how it worked then' thing that is creeping in - people
    dont realize that software development is a lot like evolution, mistakes
    get made and they eventually get fixed.

    ----------------
    Steven H

    the madGeek

    > On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 07:29:51 +0000, Steven H wrote:
    >
    >> i write software, i dont admin servers - i havent had any issues
    >> admining mine so how the hell can it be so damn complex as to require
    >> monthly defrags, multiple reboots.
    >>

    > I dunno.
    >
    > My Unix file server has never needed its discs defragmented. My Linux
    > desktop likewise has never needed the discs defragmented.
    >
    > Why should M$ Windows need to have that done to it?
    >
    > Can't M$ Windows take care of that sort of thing automatically?
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >
     
    Steven H, Apr 9, 2006
    #8
  9. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Stu Fleming Guest

    Steven H wrote:
    > Hello Have A Nice Cup of Tea,
    >
    >> My Unix file server has never needed its discs defragmented. My Linux
    >> desktop likewise has never needed the discs defragmented.


    Did you ever find out who was doing this and for whom? Contact via
    e-mail or let me know next week. Ta.
     
    Stu Fleming, Apr 9, 2006
    #9
  10. On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 11:55:34 +1200, David wrote:

    > What if your server actually served, received and modified files
    > constantly all day? What if your Desktop was used for editing video or
    > compiling huge software projects for 8 hours a day?


    Can't the OS use the remaining sixteen hours to sort out the disc?

    Why should somebody have to manually defragment a disc these days?


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    Martin Taylor, GM of platform strategy at Microsoft: "We found
    that the Linux environment provided about 15 percent more end
    user loss of productivity." - *provided MORE loss of productivity*
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 9, 2006
    #10
  11. On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 01:31:55 +0000, Steven H wrote:

    > i actually thaught you knew this but a NTFS file system will natually migrate
    > often accessed files to a faster area of the disk.


    I don't have, don't use, an NTFS partition in my house.

    Why should I learn about something that is irrelevant to a Linux or Unix
    system?

    NTFS, like WinNT and MS-DOS, belongs to the past where it should be left
    to rot.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    Martin Taylor, GM of platform strategy at Microsoft: "We found
    that the Linux environment provided about 15 percent more end
    user loss of productivity." - *provided MORE loss of productivity*
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 9, 2006
    #11
  12. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:57:32 +1200, Have A Nice Cup of Tea <>
    exclaimed:

    >On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 01:31:55 +0000, Steven H wrote:
    >
    >> i actually thaught you knew this but a NTFS file system will natually migrate
    >> often accessed files to a faster area of the disk.

    >
    >I don't have, don't use, an NTFS partition in my house.
    >
    >Why should I learn about something that is irrelevant to a Linux or Unix
    >system?


    Hmm, maybe since (a) you are criticising it, from a position of
    knowing nothing about it (par for the course for you, I guess), and
    (b) because you expect everyone to learn everything there is to know
    about your favourite operating system, even if they are quite happy
    without it.

    Does explain your hatred on everything Windows, though. You simply
    don't know anything about it.
     
    Fred Dagg, Apr 9, 2006
    #12
  13. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Jennings Guest

    On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 11:55:34 +1200, David wrote:

    snip

    >> Why should M$ Windows need to have that done to it?
    >>
    >> Can't M$ Windows take care of that sort of thing automatically?
    >>
    >>
    >> Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >>



    > What if your server actually served, received and modified files
    > constantly all day? What if your Desktop was used for editing video or
    > compiling huge software projects for 8 hours a day?



    Good points David, but logic was never considered a requirement for a
    linux advocate.


    Side note ... interesting issue that linux don't need a defrag.


    Pop over to gentoo forums and do a search on the major problem that a
    portage system rsync gives people.

    Seems zillions of fragmented files seems to be the common explanation put
    forward by some people.


    Bling also does a complete re install of linux every six months, when he
    upgrades to the latest linux version in his bid to evade dependency hell.

    So there is the equivalent defrag right there...


    J.
     
    Jennings, Apr 9, 2006
    #13
  14. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Steven H Guest

    Hello Fred,

    > Does explain your hatred on everything Windows, though. You simply
    > don't know anything about it.


    he is a troll but damn i do have a soft spot for the little buggar - even
    if it is merly education.

    ----------------
    Steven H

    the madGeek

    > On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:57:32 +1200, Have A Nice Cup of Tea <>
    > exclaimed:
    >
    >> On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 01:31:55 +0000, Steven H wrote:
    >>
    >>> i actually thaught you knew this but a NTFS file system will
    >>> natually migrate often accessed files to a faster area of the disk.
    >>>

    >> I don't have, don't use, an NTFS partition in my house.
    >>
    >> Why should I learn about something that is irrelevant to a Linux or
    >> Unix system?
    >>

    > Hmm, maybe since (a) you are criticising it, from a position of
    > knowing nothing about it (par for the course for you, I guess), and
    > (b) because you expect everyone to learn everything there is to know
    > about your favourite operating system, even if they are quite happy
    > without it.
    >
    > Does explain your hatred on everything Windows, though. You simply
    > don't know anything about it.
    >
     
    Steven H, Apr 9, 2006
    #14
  15. On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 17:10:04 +1200, Jennings wrote:

    > Bling also does a complete re install of linux every six months, when he
    > upgrades to the latest linux version in his bid to evade dependency hell.


    I make careful use of partitioning so that the directories that have
    content that only rarely change are kept separate from the partitions such
    as /var that hold content that is temporary. I also use some partitions
    for archiving stuff in my /home directory that does not change at all.

    And besides, even *IF* I upgrade my desktop box every year or six months,
    I still use the same partitions, and I only reformat the partions where I
    want nothing left from before the upgrade - such as /, /boot, /etc and
    /usr.

    But in a normal sytem the contents of /boot, /etc/ and /usr should not be
    constantly changing.

    Now, if you have a large repository that you are regularly syncronising,
    isn't it sensible to put it on a larger filesystem that can cope with the
    demands of the job, rather than shoving it somewhere barely big enough to
    hold the repository and then wondering why you don't have the room to do
    the sync?

    And can't you specify the maximum accepted amount of fragmentation before
    the OS will automatically do a defrag? (Assume you can)


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    "When a company starts fighting over IP, it's a
    sign they've lost the real battle, for users."
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 9, 2006
    #15
  16. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Guest Guest

    "Have A Nice Cup of Tea" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 11:55:34 +1200, David wrote:
    >
    >> What if your server actually served, received and modified files
    >> constantly all day? What if your Desktop was used for editing video or
    >> compiling huge software projects for 8 hours a day?

    >
    > Can't the OS use the remaining sixteen hours to sort out the disc?
    >
    > Why should somebody have to manually defragment a disc these days?


    Have you ever heard of a scheduled task?
     
    Guest, Apr 9, 2006
    #16
  17. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:34:10 +0000 (UTC), Steven H
    <> exclaimed:

    >> Does explain your hatred on everything Windows, though. You simply
    >> don't know anything about it.

    >
    >he is a troll but damn i do have a soft spot for the little buggar - even
    >if it is merly education.


    Really? I don't have a heck of a lot of time for people like that,
    that have illogical arguments and are not prepared to even consider
    that other people may have other opinions.

    But hey, that's just my opinion...
     
    Fred Dagg, Apr 9, 2006
    #17
  18. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    David Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 01:31:55 +0000, Steven H wrote:
    >
    >> i actually thaught you knew this but a NTFS file system will natually migrate
    >> often accessed files to a faster area of the disk.

    >
    > I don't have, don't use, an NTFS partition in my house.
    >
    > Why should I learn about something that is irrelevant to a Linux or Unix
    > system?
    >
    > NTFS, like WinNT and MS-DOS, belongs to the past where it should be left
    > to rot.
    >
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >


    Development of Windows NT started in 1988. Development of the Linux
    kernel started in 1991. Both have been maintained and improved actively
    since then. Linux is based on UNIX which is even older, so it could be
    argued that Windows NT is the more modern. Since NT was designed to
    improve on the unix way of doing things, it could be argued that it is
    the more modern OS.

    Anyway, for me, NT is the easiest way to do what I need to do. Sure,
    there might be something better out there, but I know how to use NT, and
    it would take a lot of time and effort to learn how to use something
    else as confidently as I can use NT.

    As for the issue of fragmentation, I didn't defrag my main Desktop for 3
    years after installing; On earlier versions of Windows I would defrag
    when performance began to suffer, as I never noticed this on XP, I
    completely forgot that Disk Defragmenter even existed. However I defrag
    regularly now, it does help, especially when the drive begins to get full.
     
    David, Apr 9, 2006
    #18
  19. On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 19:06:43 +1200, David wrote:

    > Since NT was designed to improve on the unix way of doing things,


    LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

    That's just so funny.

    Is that really the case?

    LOL


    > it could be argued that it is the more modern OS.


    Anything could be argued.

    We certainly know which OS suffers more viruses and worms and spyware that
    even its vendor has given up on trying to prevent or solve without
    resorting to reformatting and starting again.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    Martin Taylor, GM of platform strategy at Microsoft: "We found
    that the Linux environment provided about 15 percent more end
    user loss of productivity." - *provided MORE loss of productivity*
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 9, 2006
    #19
  20. On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 19:06:43 +1200, David wrote:

    > Anyway, for me, NT is the easiest way to do what I need to do. Sure,
    > there might be something better out there, but I know how to use NT, and
    > it would take a lot of time and effort to learn how to use something
    > else as confidently as I can use NT.


    Valid points there.

    For me these days, Linux is the OS that I am more familiar with. I am as
    comfortable at the command line as at the GUI. I like the feel of a Linux
    system.

    It took me quite a while to re-orient myself to the *nix way of organising
    things, but now that I'm used to it I find the Windows way really quite
    clumsy.

    I like being to hit a couple of keys on the keyboard and almost instantly
    changing from using a GUI to using the plain text console.

    The only thing I don't like is that Open Office takes so long to start.

    I like being able to skip past the copyright warning notices when playing
    DVDs.

    I like being able to log out, and when logging back in I find the desktop
    as I left it - documents and all.

    I like being able to mount partitions directly on the parts of the
    directory tree that need the extra space.

    And, most of all, I like the xpenguins applet that puts lovely little
    animated creatures all over the desktop. ;o)


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    Martin Taylor, GM of platform strategy at Microsoft: "We found
    that the Linux environment provided about 15 percent more end
    user loss of productivity." - *provided MORE loss of productivity*
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 9, 2006
    #20
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