A tale of two Sigmas

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by J. Clarke, Feb 10, 2009.

  1. J. Clarke

    J. Clarke Guest

    I made the horrible mistake of assuming that two Sigma flash units
    would work together as they are documented to do. Got a Sigma EF-140
    EO and a Sigma EF-530 DG Super EO, expecting that they would work as
    documented as master and slave under E-TTL II on a 30D.

    Well, turned out that the 530 would fire most of the time in that
    mode, but it did it before the shutter opened. So called Sigma, did
    everything their tech said to do, still the same problem, the tech
    told me to send them in. So I sent them back to Sigma.

    Well, Sigma LOST THE BLASTED THINGS. Finally after diddling around
    for a week and a half they decided to send out replacements. Well,
    the replacements DO THE SAME THING.

    At this point I feel like sending them back to Sigma again would be
    putting good money after bad. The sensible thing to do would be to
    just put them up on ebay with a disclaimer about the problem and put
    the money toward the Canon equivalents. Anybody have any other
    suggestions, practical, impractical, or otherwise?

    --
    --
    --John
    to email, dial "usenet" and validate
    (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
     
    J. Clarke, Feb 10, 2009
    #1
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  2. J. Clarke

    Colin.D Guest

    J. Clarke wrote:
    > I made the horrible mistake of assuming that two Sigma flash units
    > would work together as they are documented to do. Got a Sigma EF-140
    > EO and a Sigma EF-530 DG Super EO, expecting that they would work as
    > documented as master and slave under E-TTL II on a 30D.
    >
    > Well, turned out that the 530 would fire most of the time in that
    > mode, but it did it before the shutter opened. So called Sigma, did
    > everything their tech said to do, still the same problem, the tech
    > told me to send them in. So I sent them back to Sigma.
    >
    > Well, Sigma LOST THE BLASTED THINGS. Finally after diddling around
    > for a week and a half they decided to send out replacements. Well,
    > the replacements DO THE SAME THING.
    >
    > At this point I feel like sending them back to Sigma again would be
    > putting good money after bad. The sensible thing to do would be to
    > just put them up on ebay with a disclaimer about the problem and put
    > the money toward the Canon equivalents. Anybody have any other
    > suggestions, practical, impractical, or otherwise?
    >

    You are aware, I suppose, that Canon flashes actually fire twice, once
    with a measured output to allow the camera to measure exposure, then
    again about 1/100 sec later to make the exposure.

    Flash units that are not aware of this dump their flash on the first
    firing, and do not flash again for the actual exposure.

    Colin D.
     
    Colin.D, Feb 11, 2009
    #2
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  3. J. Clarke

    J. Clarke Guest

    Colin.D wrote:
    > J. Clarke wrote:
    >> I made the horrible mistake of assuming that two Sigma flash units
    >> would work together as they are documented to do. Got a Sigma
    >> EF-140
    >> EO and a Sigma EF-530 DG Super EO, expecting that they would work
    >> as
    >> documented as master and slave under E-TTL II on a 30D.
    >>
    >> Well, turned out that the 530 would fire most of the time in that
    >> mode, but it did it before the shutter opened. So called Sigma,
    >> did
    >> everything their tech said to do, still the same problem, the tech
    >> told me to send them in. So I sent them back to Sigma.
    >>
    >> Well, Sigma LOST THE BLASTED THINGS. Finally after diddling around
    >> for a week and a half they decided to send out replacements. Well,
    >> the replacements DO THE SAME THING.
    >>
    >> At this point I feel like sending them back to Sigma again would be
    >> putting good money after bad. The sensible thing to do would be to
    >> just put them up on ebay with a disclaimer about the problem and
    >> put
    >> the money toward the Canon equivalents. Anybody have any other
    >> suggestions, practical, impractical, or otherwise?
    >>

    > You are aware, I suppose, that Canon flashes actually fire twice,
    > once with a measured output to allow the camera to measure exposure,
    > then again about 1/100 sec later to make the exposure.
    >
    > Flash units that are not aware of this dump their flash on the first
    > firing, and do not flash again for the actual exposure.


    Please tell me what leads you to believe that there was a "Canon
    flash" involved here.

    --
    --
    --John
    to email, dial "usenet" and validate
    (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
     
    J. Clarke, Feb 11, 2009
    #3
  4. J. Clarke

    Ray Fischer Guest

    J. Clarke <> wrote:
    >Colin.D wrote:
    >> J. Clarke wrote:
    >>> I made the horrible mistake of assuming that two Sigma flash units
    >>> would work together as they are documented to do. Got a Sigma
    >>> EF-140
    >>> EO and a Sigma EF-530 DG Super EO, expecting that they would work
    >>> as
    >>> documented as master and slave under E-TTL II on a 30D.
    >>>
    >>> Well, turned out that the 530 would fire most of the time in that
    >>> mode, but it did it before the shutter opened. So called Sigma,
    >>> did
    >>> everything their tech said to do, still the same problem, the tech
    >>> told me to send them in. So I sent them back to Sigma.
    >>>
    >>> Well, Sigma LOST THE BLASTED THINGS. Finally after diddling around
    >>> for a week and a half they decided to send out replacements. Well,
    >>> the replacements DO THE SAME THING.
    >>>
    >>> At this point I feel like sending them back to Sigma again would be
    >>> putting good money after bad. The sensible thing to do would be to
    >>> just put them up on ebay with a disclaimer about the problem and
    >>> put
    >>> the money toward the Canon equivalents. Anybody have any other
    >>> suggestions, practical, impractical, or otherwise?
    >>>

    >> You are aware, I suppose, that Canon flashes actually fire twice,
    >> once with a measured output to allow the camera to measure exposure,
    >> then again about 1/100 sec later to make the exposure.
    >>
    >> Flash units that are not aware of this dump their flash on the first
    >> firing, and do not flash again for the actual exposure.

    >
    >Please tell me what leads you to believe that there was a "Canon
    >flash" involved here.


    Read it again.

    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Feb 11, 2009
    #4
  5. J. Clarke

    Colin.D Guest

    J. Clarke wrote:
    > Colin.D wrote:
    >> J. Clarke wrote:
    >>> I made the horrible mistake of assuming that two Sigma flash units
    >>> would work together as they are documented to do. Got a Sigma
    >>> EF-140
    >>> EO and a Sigma EF-530 DG Super EO, expecting that they would work
    >>> as
    >>> documented as master and slave under E-TTL II on a 30D.
    >>>
    >>> Well, turned out that the 530 would fire most of the time in that
    >>> mode, but it did it before the shutter opened. So called Sigma,
    >>> did
    >>> everything their tech said to do, still the same problem, the tech
    >>> told me to send them in. So I sent them back to Sigma.
    >>>
    >>> Well, Sigma LOST THE BLASTED THINGS. Finally after diddling around
    >>> for a week and a half they decided to send out replacements. Well,
    >>> the replacements DO THE SAME THING.
    >>>
    >>> At this point I feel like sending them back to Sigma again would be
    >>> putting good money after bad. The sensible thing to do would be to
    >>> just put them up on ebay with a disclaimer about the problem and
    >>> put
    >>> the money toward the Canon equivalents. Anybody have any other
    >>> suggestions, practical, impractical, or otherwise?
    >>>

    >> You are aware, I suppose, that Canon flashes actually fire twice,
    >> once with a measured output to allow the camera to measure exposure,
    >> then again about 1/100 sec later to make the exposure.
    >>
    >> Flash units that are not aware of this dump their flash on the first
    >> firing, and do not flash again for the actual exposure.

    >
    > Please tell me what leads you to believe that there was a "Canon
    > flash" involved here.
    >

    Do you always reply with such an acid tone when people try to help you?
    I was kindly pointing out that while Canon flashes use a preflash,
    your junk sigmas probably don't. But, perhaps your comprehension is
    wanting a little, since you got my post ass up with care.

    Next time you ask a question, don't expect me to respond.

    Colin D.
     
    Colin.D, Feb 13, 2009
    #5
  6. J. Clarke

    J. Clarke Guest

    Colin.D wrote:
    > J. Clarke wrote:
    >> Colin.D wrote:
    >>> J. Clarke wrote:
    >>>> I made the horrible mistake of assuming that two Sigma flash
    >>>> units
    >>>> would work together as they are documented to do. Got a Sigma
    >>>> EF-140
    >>>> EO and a Sigma EF-530 DG Super EO, expecting that they would work
    >>>> as
    >>>> documented as master and slave under E-TTL II on a 30D.
    >>>>
    >>>> Well, turned out that the 530 would fire most of the time in that
    >>>> mode, but it did it before the shutter opened. So called Sigma,
    >>>> did
    >>>> everything their tech said to do, still the same problem, the
    >>>> tech
    >>>> told me to send them in. So I sent them back to Sigma.
    >>>>
    >>>> Well, Sigma LOST THE BLASTED THINGS. Finally after diddling
    >>>> around
    >>>> for a week and a half they decided to send out replacements.
    >>>> Well,
    >>>> the replacements DO THE SAME THING.
    >>>>
    >>>> At this point I feel like sending them back to Sigma again would
    >>>> be
    >>>> putting good money after bad. The sensible thing to do would be
    >>>> to
    >>>> just put them up on ebay with a disclaimer about the problem and
    >>>> put
    >>>> the money toward the Canon equivalents. Anybody have any other
    >>>> suggestions, practical, impractical, or otherwise?
    >>>>
    >>> You are aware, I suppose, that Canon flashes actually fire twice,
    >>> once with a measured output to allow the camera to measure
    >>> exposure,
    >>> then again about 1/100 sec later to make the exposure.
    >>>
    >>> Flash units that are not aware of this dump their flash on the
    >>> first
    >>> firing, and do not flash again for the actual exposure.

    >>
    >> Please tell me what leads you to believe that there was a "Canon
    >> flash" involved here.
    >>

    > Do you always reply with such an acid tone when people try to help
    > you?


    The fact that you made a comment about "Canon flash" when there is no,
    repeat no Canon flash involved. I gave specific brands and models and
    described the manner in which they were being used. Canon flash can
    emit preflashes, recite the Gettysburg address or do the Fandango and
    it has not even the slightest relevance to the issue at hand.

    That was much gentler than my initial reaction by the way.

    > I was kindly pointing out that while Canon flashes use a
    > preflash, your junk sigmas probably don't.


    Well that's nice. SO EFFING WHAT?

    In any case you clearly have not the slightest familiarity with the
    Sigmas.

    > But, perhaps your
    > comprehension is wanting a little, since you got my post ass up with
    > care.


    I'm sorry, but I'm not the one who responds to a post about X brand of
    product by describing the characteristics of Y brand of product
    without making the tiniest effort to explain why those characteristics
    are relevant.

    > Next time you ask a question, don't expect me to respond.


    Goody. Maybe I'll get a USEFUL response from someone else next time.

    --
    --
    --John
    to email, dial "usenet" and validate
    (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
     
    J. Clarke, Feb 13, 2009
    #6
  7. J. Clarke

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, David Kilpatrick
    <> wrote:

    > the Sigma flash units are not poor,


    yes they are. they're unreliable and inconsistent.

    > they probably come from the same OEM as the Canon units, and they are
    > not made by Sigma any more than the Canon guns are made by Canon (or
    > Nikon by Nikon, or Sony by Sony etc - they are all contracted-out,
    > bought-in, whatever you choose to call it).


    even if that's true, the entire flash is not contracted out. there are
    many differences between nikon/canon flashes and third party ones,
    namely compatibility.
     
    nospam, Feb 13, 2009
    #7
  8. J. Clarke

    J. Clarke Guest

    nospam wrote:
    > In article <>, David
    > Kilpatrick
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> the Sigma flash units are not poor,

    >
    > yes they are. they're unreliable and inconsistent.
    >
    >> they probably come from the same OEM as the Canon units, and they
    >> are
    >> not made by Sigma any more than the Canon guns are made by Canon
    >> (or
    >> Nikon by Nikon, or Sony by Sony etc - they are all contracted-out,
    >> bought-in, whatever you choose to call it).

    >
    > even if that's true, the entire flash is not contracted out. there
    > are many differences between nikon/canon flashes and third party
    > ones,
    > namely compatibility.


    The controls for Sigma and Canon are quite different. Unlikely that
    they're from the same OEM.

    On the other hand the Sigmas appear to not even be compatible with
    other Sigmas. They're _documented_ to not be compatible with the 50d
    without a firmware update, and the ones that Sigma sent me have serial
    numbers prior to the update with no note that it has been applied.

    --
    --
    --John
    to email, dial "usenet" and validate
    (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
     
    J. Clarke, Feb 13, 2009
    #8
  9. J. Clarke

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, J. Clarke
    <> wrote:

    > The controls for Sigma and Canon are quite different. Unlikely that
    > they're from the same OEM.


    perhaps parts of it are subbed out, such as the flashtube/thyristor
    assembly (although i have my doubts), but the rest of it certainly
    isn't, notably the firmware and overall design and construction.

    > On the other hand the Sigmas appear to not even be compatible with
    > other Sigmas. They're _documented_ to not be compatible with the 50d
    > without a firmware update, and the ones that Sigma sent me have serial
    > numbers prior to the update with no note that it has been applied.


    i saw on dpreview that sigma flashes don't always work correctly with
    *sigma* cameras, nevermind canon or anyone else.
     
    nospam, Feb 13, 2009
    #9
  10. J. Clarke

    Colin.D Guest

    J. Clarke wrote:
    > Colin.D wrote:
    >> J. Clarke wrote:
    >>> Colin.D wrote:
    >>>> J. Clarke wrote:
    >>>>> I made the horrible mistake of assuming that two Sigma flash
    >>>>> units
    >>>>> would work together as they are documented to do. Got a Sigma
    >>>>> EF-140
    >>>>> EO and a Sigma EF-530 DG Super EO, expecting that they would work
    >>>>> as
    >>>>> documented as master and slave under E-TTL II on a 30D.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Well, turned out that the 530 would fire most of the time in that
    >>>>> mode, but it did it before the shutter opened. So called Sigma,
    >>>>> did
    >>>>> everything their tech said to do, still the same problem, the
    >>>>> tech
    >>>>> told me to send them in. So I sent them back to Sigma.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Well, Sigma LOST THE BLASTED THINGS. Finally after diddling
    >>>>> around
    >>>>> for a week and a half they decided to send out replacements.
    >>>>> Well,
    >>>>> the replacements DO THE SAME THING.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> At this point I feel like sending them back to Sigma again would
    >>>>> be
    >>>>> putting good money after bad. The sensible thing to do would be
    >>>>> to
    >>>>> just put them up on ebay with a disclaimer about the problem and
    >>>>> put
    >>>>> the money toward the Canon equivalents. Anybody have any other
    >>>>> suggestions, practical, impractical, or otherwise?
    >>>>>
    >>>> You are aware, I suppose, that Canon flashes actually fire twice,
    >>>> once with a measured output to allow the camera to measure
    >>>> exposure,
    >>>> then again about 1/100 sec later to make the exposure.
    >>>>
    >>>> Flash units that are not aware of this dump their flash on the
    >>>> first
    >>>> firing, and do not flash again for the actual exposure.
    >>> Please tell me what leads you to believe that there was a "Canon
    >>> flash" involved here.
    >>>

    >> Do you always reply with such an acid tone when people try to help
    >> you?

    >
    > The fact that you made a comment about "Canon flash" when there is no,
    > repeat no Canon flash involved. I gave specific brands and models and
    > described the manner in which they were being used. Canon flash can
    > emit preflashes, recite the Gettysburg address or do the Fandango and
    > it has not even the slightest relevance to the issue at hand.
    >
    > That was much gentler than my initial reaction by the way.
    >
    >> I was kindly pointing out that while Canon flashes use a
    >> preflash, your junk sigmas probably don't.

    >
    > Well that's nice. SO EFFING WHAT?
    >
    > In any case you clearly have not the slightest familiarity with the
    > Sigmas.
    >
    >> But, perhaps your
    >> comprehension is wanting a little, since you got my post ass up with
    >> care.

    >
    > I'm sorry, but I'm not the one who responds to a post about X brand of
    > product by describing the characteristics of Y brand of product
    > without making the tiniest effort to explain why those characteristics
    > are relevant.
    >
    >> Next time you ask a question, don't expect me to respond.

    >
    > Goody. Maybe I'll get a USEFUL response from someone else next time.
    >

    Remember writing this? "Anybody have any other
    suggestions, practical, impractical, or otherwise?"

    You forgot to add a rider that anyone answering but not hitting your
    target would get a hostile response from you.

    I know you were talking about Sigma flashes - and how they fired too
    soon "before the shutter opened". You gave no hint that you knew about
    preflash, despite mentioning e-ttl, and I just tried to point out about
    Canon flashes outputting a preflash, in case that was your problem with
    the Sigmas.

    However, in spite of "Anybody have any other suggestions, practical,
    impractical, or otherwise?" you chose to give a sarcastic reply to which
    I responded, only to receive another even more vitriolic outburst from
    you, in which you say "That was much gentler than my initial reaction by
    the way."

    Just what was your 'initial reaction'? I seriously think, if that was
    the case, that you need to undertake an anger management course, or
    maybe see a psychologist. Your outlook on life is in need of repair.

    Or, is it that you feel free to display your real personality here on
    usenet, unlike in real life where you would mind your manners in case
    you got a blood nose?

    Colin D.
     
    Colin.D, Feb 13, 2009
    #10
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