A not so gentle hint.

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by Feliks Dzerzhinsky, Apr 26, 2007.

  1. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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    It is easy to complain that Adobe doesn't have a 64 bit Flash Player,
    but with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64
    bit, can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS?
    - --
    Iron Feliks
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    Feliks Dzerzhinsky, Apr 26, 2007
    #1
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  2. What's your point? Most apps don't need to be 64bit. The point is that
    they run natively under x64 as 32bit apps just fine.

    --
    Colin Barnhorst
    MVP Virtual Machine
    "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: SHA512
    >
    > It is easy to complain that Adobe doesn't have a 64 bit Flash Player,
    > but with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64
    > bit, can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS?
    > - --
    > Iron Feliks
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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    > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
    >
    > iD8DBQFGMQGBIEgejQPpTu4RCuRUAJ46sC4rtMkXMVAt1XbczUkDdvjzIgCfW7gy
    > uCbJ3TCjLN/t/gGXI/iRLnw=
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    Colin Barnhorst, Apr 26, 2007
    #2
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  3. Feliks Dzerzhinsky

    John Barnes Guest

    There are a dozen or more. As Colin said most probably don't need to be, or
    function better, but look in your Program Files folder and you will see
    them, including Games, Movie Maker and Media Player


    "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: SHA512
    >
    > It is easy to complain that Adobe doesn't have a 64 bit Flash Player,
    > but with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64
    > bit, can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS?
    > - --
    > Iron Feliks
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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    > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
    >
    > iD8DBQFGMQGBIEgejQPpTu4RCuRUAJ46sC4rtMkXMVAt1XbczUkDdvjzIgCfW7gy
    > uCbJ3TCjLN/t/gGXI/iRLnw=
    > =FY/f
    > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
     
    John Barnes, Apr 27, 2007
    #3
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    John Barnes wrote:
    > There are a dozen or more. As Colin said most probably don't need to
    > be, or function better, but look in your Program Files folder and you
    > will see them, including Games, Movie Maker and Media Player
    >
    >
    > "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > It is easy to complain that Adobe doesn't have a 64 bit Flash Player,
    > but with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64
    > bit, can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS?



    Which part of "with the exception of those applications that come with
    Vista 64 bit" did you miss in my original post?
    - --
    Iron Feliks
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    Feliks Dzerzhinsky, Apr 27, 2007
    #4
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    Colin Barnhorst wrote:
    > What's your point? Most apps don't need to be 64bit. The point is that
    > they run natively under x64 as 32bit apps just fine.
    >

    32 bit apps also load and run slower than 64 bit apps. Thunking wasn't
    good then and it isn't good now.

    How much baggage from the past do we need to drag with us? What is the
    point of having a 64 bit OS if there are few 64 bit apps available?

    The only time software developers will get off their butts and produce
    64 bit apps is if one of their competitors does it.

    - --
    Iron Feliks
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    Feliks Dzerzhinsky, Apr 27, 2007
    #5
  6. So write some 64bit apps and give them the challenge.

    --
    Colin Barnhorst
    MVP Virtual Machine
    "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: SHA512
    >
    > Colin Barnhorst wrote:
    >> What's your point? Most apps don't need to be 64bit. The point is that
    >> they run natively under x64 as 32bit apps just fine.
    >>

    > 32 bit apps also load and run slower than 64 bit apps. Thunking wasn't
    > good then and it isn't good now.
    >
    > How much baggage from the past do we need to drag with us? What is the
    > point of having a 64 bit OS if there are few 64 bit apps available?
    >
    > The only time software developers will get off their butts and produce
    > 64 bit apps is if one of their competitors does it.
    >
    > - --
    > Iron Feliks
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)
    > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
    >
    > iD8DBQFGMUIVIEgejQPpTu4RCmK7AJ99iZ/+p434cBA4ywliJE249RnzUACgpV6s
    > 2gjQJhMh8AEAU8Zz00wxSMw=
    > =QD3h
    > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Apr 27, 2007
    #6
  7. Feliks:
    I would also like to have, eg, Office 2007 64-bit.
    But I don't think I would benefit from that.
    On the other hand we already have 64-bit versions of IE and WMP sitting
    there, just waiting for third party programmers to write their 64-bit
    variants of Flash, Java, mp3 decoders, mpeg2 decoders, etc.
    And I am leaving out 64-bit applications (sound mixer, wave editor, etc.)
    from CreativeLabs, Nero Burning ROM, etc., etc., etc.
    John may have missed a part of your post but no one is forcing us (yet) to
    jump into the 64-bit bandwagon and/or deceiving us about having 64-bits apps.
    Carlos


    "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" wrote:

    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: SHA512
    >
    > John Barnes wrote:
    > > There are a dozen or more. As Colin said most probably don't need to
    > > be, or function better, but look in your Program Files folder and you
    > > will see them, including Games, Movie Maker and Media Player
    > >
    > >
    > > "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > It is easy to complain that Adobe doesn't have a 64 bit Flash Player,
    > > but with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64
    > > bit, can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS?

    >
    >
    > Which part of "with the exception of those applications that come with
    > Vista 64 bit" did you miss in my original post?
    > - --
    > Iron Feliks
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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    > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
    >
    > iD8DBQFGMUA5IEgejQPpTu4RCm7wAJ0c8hOG+X7lSmVsApqz/DfbO9UcQQCghnJr
    > ncZxaLmb6Kg4Ij0/IhmOelk=
    > =Xz0D
    > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
    >
     
    =?Utf-8?B?Q2FybG9z?=, Apr 27, 2007
    #7
  8. Feliks Dzerzhinsky

    John Barnes Guest

    Thanks Carlos, you do have 3 64-bit dll's in Office (home and student) :)

    "Carlos" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Feliks:
    > I would also like to have, eg, Office 2007 64-bit.
    > But I don't think I would benefit from that.
    > On the other hand we already have 64-bit versions of IE and WMP sitting
    > there, just waiting for third party programmers to write their 64-bit
    > variants of Flash, Java, mp3 decoders, mpeg2 decoders, etc.
    > And I am leaving out 64-bit applications (sound mixer, wave editor, etc.)
    > from CreativeLabs, Nero Burning ROM, etc., etc., etc.
    > John may have missed a part of your post but no one is forcing us (yet) to
    > jump into the 64-bit bandwagon and/or deceiving us about having 64-bits
    > apps.
    > Carlos
    >
    >
    > "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" wrote:
    >
    >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >> Hash: SHA512
    >>
    >> John Barnes wrote:
    >> > There are a dozen or more. As Colin said most probably don't need to
    >> > be, or function better, but look in your Program Files folder and you
    >> > will see them, including Games, Movie Maker and Media Player
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" <> wrote in message
    >> > news:...
    >> > It is easy to complain that Adobe doesn't have a 64 bit Flash Player,
    >> > but with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64
    >> > bit, can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS?

    >>
    >>
    >> Which part of "with the exception of those applications that come with
    >> Vista 64 bit" did you miss in my original post?
    >> - --
    >> Iron Feliks
    >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)
    >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
    >>
    >> iD8DBQFGMUA5IEgejQPpTu4RCm7wAJ0c8hOG+X7lSmVsApqz/DfbO9UcQQCghnJr
    >> ncZxaLmb6Kg4Ij0/IhmOelk=
    >> =Xz0D
    >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
    >>
     
    John Barnes, Apr 27, 2007
    #8
  9. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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    Colin Barnhorst wrote:
    > So write some 64bit apps and give them the challenge.
    >


    ROTFL! I don't think I have enough market share to have much of an
    impact (and my programming skills suck). Maybe if the folks at Open
    Office did it, it would get the attention of MS.

    - --
    Iron Feliks
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    Feliks Dzerzhinsky, Apr 27, 2007
    #9
  10. Well. That's a start.
    Have a good night in Washington, John.
    Gotta go to sleep now, it is almost midnight here.
    Carlos

    "John Barnes" wrote:

    > Thanks Carlos, you do have 3 64-bit dll's in Office (home and student) :)
    >
    > "Carlos" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Feliks:
    > > I would also like to have, eg, Office 2007 64-bit.
    > > But I don't think I would benefit from that.
    > > On the other hand we already have 64-bit versions of IE and WMP sitting
    > > there, just waiting for third party programmers to write their 64-bit
    > > variants of Flash, Java, mp3 decoders, mpeg2 decoders, etc.
    > > And I am leaving out 64-bit applications (sound mixer, wave editor, etc.)
    > > from CreativeLabs, Nero Burning ROM, etc., etc., etc.
    > > John may have missed a part of your post but no one is forcing us (yet) to
    > > jump into the 64-bit bandwagon and/or deceiving us about having 64-bits
    > > apps.
    > > Carlos
    > >
    > >
    > > "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" wrote:
    > >
    > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > >> Hash: SHA512
    > >>
    > >> John Barnes wrote:
    > >> > There are a dozen or more. As Colin said most probably don't need to
    > >> > be, or function better, but look in your Program Files folder and you
    > >> > will see them, including Games, Movie Maker and Media Player
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" <> wrote in message
    > >> > news:...
    > >> > It is easy to complain that Adobe doesn't have a 64 bit Flash Player,
    > >> > but with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64
    > >> > bit, can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS?
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Which part of "with the exception of those applications that come with
    > >> Vista 64 bit" did you miss in my original post?
    > >> - --
    > >> Iron Feliks
    > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    > >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)
    > >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
    > >>
    > >> iD8DBQFGMUA5IEgejQPpTu4RCm7wAJ0c8hOG+X7lSmVsApqz/DfbO9UcQQCghnJr
    > >> ncZxaLmb6Kg4Ij0/IhmOelk=
    > >> =Xz0D
    > >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
    > >>

    >
    >
     
    =?Utf-8?B?Q2FybG9z?=, Apr 27, 2007
    #10
  11. Feliks Dzerzhinsky

    XS11E Guest

    Carlos <> wrote:

    > Feliks:
    > I would also like to have, eg, Office 2007 64-bit.
    > But I don't think I would benefit from that.


    Of course not. I've moved from Office 2.0 to Office 2007, from an
    Intel 386DX-25 to an AMD Athlon64 3400+ and I'm STILL creating Word
    documents at 35 wpm. What in the world good does anyone think a faster
    computer would do? My computer is faster than I can type, faster than
    it can read a CD, faster than it can download email from a POP server,
    etc. etc. etc.

    Exactly the same as the earliest days of computers, we're all I/O bound
    and 64 bit apps aren't going to help one bit.

    If you're one of the .01% who are running CAD applications or billion
    megabit Excel spread sheets you might save 10 seconds a year on
    switching to 64 bit apps but that's not most of us, all we're talking
    about is BIGGER, SHINIER, FASTER for bragging rights.

    The "Mine's bigger than yours" type of silliness.
     
    XS11E, Apr 27, 2007
    #11
  12. Feliks Dzerzhinsky

    XS11E Guest

    Feliks Dzerzhinsky <> wrote:

    > 32 bit apps also load and run slower than 64 bit apps.


    Do you have some evidence to prove that? I'd like to see some numbers
    if you have some?
     
    XS11E, Apr 27, 2007
    #12
  13. Feliks Dzerzhinsky

    Doug Forster Guest

    > can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS?

    Sql Server 2005 just to answer your question

    In fact any managed (.NET) app will automatically compile and run 64 bit on
    a 64 bit OS without any changes at all. I suspect that Microsoft envisages
    this to be the future rather than specifically compiled 64 bit native code.

    Cheers
    Doug Forster
     
    Doug Forster, Apr 27, 2007
    #13
  14. Feliks Dzerzhinsky

    John Hall Guest

    "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > It is easy to complain that Adobe doesn't have a 64 bit Flash Player,
    > but with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64
    > bit, can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS?


    Windows debugging tools (windbg, etc).

    John
     
    John Hall, Apr 27, 2007
    #14
  15. Hi, XS11E:
    I was by no means asking MS for a 64-bit Office.
    I do heavy work on Excel and sometimes I have to wait (wait>=1 minute) while
    it is recalculating a spreadsheet.
    Whether that is due to is 32-bitness, poor programming practices, bloated
    software or need for more memory, well... I don't know.
    I am happy with 32-bit apps that run fine on 64-bit Vista.
    I would like Java and Flash running on IE64 but that is just a wish, not a
    request.
    Carlos
    "XS11E" wrote:

    > Carlos <> wrote:
    >
    > > Feliks:
    > > I would also like to have, eg, Office 2007 64-bit.
    > > But I don't think I would benefit from that.

    >
    > Of course not. I've moved from Office 2.0 to Office 2007, from an
    > Intel 386DX-25 to an AMD Athlon64 3400+ and I'm STILL creating Word
    > documents at 35 wpm. What in the world good does anyone think a faster
    > computer would do? My computer is faster than I can type, faster than
    > it can read a CD, faster than it can download email from a POP server,
    > etc. etc. etc.
    >
    > Exactly the same as the earliest days of computers, we're all I/O bound
    > and 64 bit apps aren't going to help one bit.
    >
    > If you're one of the .01% who are running CAD applications or billion
    > megabit Excel spread sheets you might save 10 seconds a year on
    > switching to 64 bit apps but that's not most of us, all we're talking
    > about is BIGGER, SHINIER, FASTER for bragging rights.
    >
    > The "Mine's bigger than yours" type of silliness.
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
    =?Utf-8?B?Q2FybG9z?=, Apr 27, 2007
    #15
  16. Feliks Dzerzhinsky

    Spectre Guest

    Windows Media Encoder x64 Edition?

    What do I win?


    "John Hall" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >> It is easy to complain that Adobe doesn't have a 64 bit Flash Player,
    >> but with the exception of those applications that come with Vista 64
    >> bit, can anyone think of any native 64 bit applications from MS?

    >
    > Windows debugging tools (windbg, etc).
    >
    > John
    >
     
    Spectre, Apr 27, 2007
    #16
  17. X64 is largely about memory usage, not performance. There's some performance
    improvements mostly because 64-bit native application can assume they are
    running on a modern CPU and not some crazy old P5-era chip, but the biggest
    new feature is the ability to address more than 2 GBs of memory.

    Computers now routinely come with 2 GB of RAM. Higher-end systems have 4 GB
    or more. Standard 32-bit applications running on standard 32-bit versions of
    Windows will never be able to make use of more than 2 GB, and even that is
    actually pretty hard to achieve because there are other things you do with
    the virtual memory address space than just use physical memory.

    There is a transition technology that we'll likely see most developers use
    before they go all-out and create 64-bit native applications. It's called
    "LARGEADDRESSAWARE". It's been around on 32-bit versions of Windows for
    years (the /3gb switch), but it's a bit twitchy to use and can only let
    32-bit applications get up to 3 GB. On X64 versions of Windows, such 32-bit
    LARGEADDRESSAWARE applications can use up to 4 GB without requiring any
    weird boot modes.

    In other words, 64-bit versions of Windows have an advantage over 32-bit
    versions even just running 32-bit applications. Ceratinly there is some
    performance overhead of the WOW layer, but it's nothing like the bad old
    days of Win16 thunking on Win32.

    --
    Chuck Walbourn
    SDE, XNA Developer Connection


    This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
     
    Chuck Walbourn [MSFT], Apr 27, 2007
    #17
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