A mass storage device...

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by thingy, Mar 23, 2008.

  1. thingy

    thingy Guest

    Pondering how to do cheap as practical sata raid storage box to use as a
    resource pool for backups.

    One thing I noticed is the lack of cheap boxes to hold disks without
    huge expense...

    So Ram is cheap, 2 x 1Gig ddr2-800....maybe 4...linux so memory limit is
    not an issue.

    A big case, something holding at least 6 if not 8 (or more) 1TB sata
    disks....so a motherboard with at least 6 sata connections to build a
    large raid5 tough 8 would be better....so motherboard? Intel ICH9 or at
    least 8 south bridge as disk i/o is needed...hmm maybe unless the cost
    premium is too high....

    Thinking 2 x 1TB sata in a raid 1 for booting and live data, 5+1R5 (5TB)
    for the backup space.....

    CPU, just about anything...Intel or AMD it does not matter, slowest out
    there...?

    Need 2 onboard NICS, onboard firewire, 2 if possible....

    Video card can be embedded, its running cli linux with a web gui...

    Future expansion....guess if I can get a embedded video onboard then the
    pci-e slots can be used for cheap raid cards....

    Need at least 1 PCI for the SCSI raid and another for the scsi to
    DLT....so 2 pcis though I'd rather three....

    Recommendations for a case to hold lots of disk? We are looking at 8+
    disks....

    I dont need hot swap storage...I can take it down to replace the disk
    and my experience with hot swap or quickswap bays is they are highly
    unreliable and suck at air flow.........

    ideas pls...

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Mar 23, 2008
    #1
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  2. thingy

    Enkidu Guest

    thingy wrote:
    > Pondering how to do cheap as practical sata raid storage box to use as a
    > resource pool for backups.
    >
    > One thing I noticed is the lack of cheap boxes to hold disks without
    > huge expense...
    >
    > So Ram is cheap, 2 x 1Gig ddr2-800....maybe 4...linux so memory limit is
    > not an issue.
    >
    > A big case, something holding at least 6 if not 8 (or more) 1TB sata
    > disks....so a motherboard with at least 6 sata connections to build a
    > large raid5 tough 8 would be better....so motherboard? Intel ICH9 or at
    > least 8 south bridge as disk i/o is needed...hmm maybe unless the cost
    > premium is too high....
    >
    > Thinking 2 x 1TB sata in a raid 1 for booting and live data, 5+1R5 (5TB)
    > for the backup space.....
    >
    > CPU, just about anything...Intel or AMD it does not matter, slowest out
    > there...?
    >
    > Need 2 onboard NICS, onboard firewire, 2 if possible....
    >
    > Video card can be embedded, its running cli linux with a web gui...
    >
    > Future expansion....guess if I can get a embedded video onboard then the
    > pci-e slots can be used for cheap raid cards....
    >
    > Need at least 1 PCI for the SCSI raid and another for the scsi to
    > DLT....so 2 pcis though I'd rather three....
    >
    > Recommendations for a case to hold lots of disk? We are looking at 8+
    > disks....
    >
    > I dont need hot swap storage...I can take it down to replace the disk
    > and my experience with hot swap or quickswap bays is they are highly
    > unreliable and suck at air flow.........
    >

    Have you tried Ascent? I believe that I bought an external 8 disk SCSI
    enclosure from the eons ago, but I don't know if they still do such
    devices. What you get is essentially an empty case with a backplane,
    which connects to the main server.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    Have you ever noticed that if something is advertised as 'amusing' or
    'hilarious', it usually isn't?
    Enkidu, Mar 23, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. thingy

    RL Guest

    thingy wrote:
    > Recommendations for a case to hold lots of disk? We are looking at 8+
    > disks....


    I have three Procase CRS9008 cases. These are budget rack cases with
    eight 5.25" drive bays, and one 3.5". For my RAID, I wanted eight drives
    in the RAID, a system drive, and room for a DVD, so I have two Kingwin
    KF-4000-BK 4-in-3 SATA drive arrays installed in one of the cases. These
    are also inexpensive, and would allow you to use a case designed for six
    drives, but even those aren't easy to come by, as I'm sure you've found.

    The RAID on my system is controlled by a Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8, but
    that is a PCI-X card, and would add another $150 or so to the price.

    Gigabyte has a range of motherboards available with eight SATA ports. I
    can recommend the GA-P35-DS3R, which has six ports on the ICH9R, and
    another two on a RAID controller. The ICH9R supports RAID5.

    Since you're obviously familiar with Linux, you may wish to consider
    Solaris or FreeBSD 7.0 with ZFS as well. This is what I am using for my
    RAID solution, and despite a few issues with a pre-release version of
    FreeBSD 7.0, it seems to be working well.

    RL
    RL, Mar 23, 2008
    #3
  4. thingy

    RL Guest

    RL wrote:
    > Gigabyte has a range of motherboards available with eight SATA ports. I
    > can recommend the GA-P35-DS3R, which has six ports on the ICH9R, and
    > another two on a RAID controller. The ICH9R supports RAID5.


    Sorry, this board only has one GbE port, and no IEEE1394. Some of the
    other boards in the range may do, but the prices go up quite a bit at
    the top end. Probably cheaper to buy another NIC and Firewire card.

    RL
    RL, Mar 23, 2008
    #4
  5. thingy

    Rob Simpson Guest

    On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 17:23:17 +1300, thingy propped his eyelids open with
    toothpicks and wrote:

    > Pondering how to do cheap as practical sata raid storage box to use as a
    > resource pool for backups.
    >
    > One thing I noticed is the lack of cheap boxes to hold disks without
    > huge expense...
    >
    > So Ram is cheap, 2 x 1Gig ddr2-800....maybe 4...linux so memory limit is
    > not an issue.
    >
    > A big case, something holding at least 6 if not 8 (or more) 1TB sata
    > disks....so a motherboard with at least 6 sata connections to build a
    > large raid5 tough 8 would be better....so motherboard? Intel ICH9 or at
    > least 8 south bridge as disk i/o is needed...hmm maybe unless the cost
    > premium is too high....
    >
    > Thinking 2 x 1TB sata in a raid 1 for booting and live data, 5+1R5 (5TB)
    > for the backup space.....
    >
    > CPU, just about anything...Intel or AMD it does not matter, slowest out
    > there...?
    >
    > Need 2 onboard NICS, onboard firewire, 2 if possible....
    >
    > Video card can be embedded, its running cli linux with a web gui...
    >
    > Future expansion....guess if I can get a embedded video onboard then the
    > pci-e slots can be used for cheap raid cards....
    >
    > Need at least 1 PCI for the SCSI raid and another for the scsi to
    > DLT....so 2 pcis though I'd rather three....
    >
    > Recommendations for a case to hold lots of disk? We are looking at 8+
    > disks....
    >
    > I dont need hot swap storage...I can take it down to replace the disk
    > and my experience with hot swap or quickswap bays is they are highly
    > unreliable and suck at air flow.........
    >
    >


    Various iterations of the Asus P5k range offer everything but. Onboard
    video but single lan, dual lan but no onboard video. If cost is no object,
    http://www.nzoczone.com/product_info.php?products_id=4991 P5K64 WS (~$400)
    has P35/ICH9R chipsets, dual Gb lan, no onboard video but has 4 pci-e 16
    slots, 2 pci, 6 sata with raid 0,1,10,5 and another 2 sata + 1 e-sata. 4
    ram slots 8Gb max. Drop in an E2140 or E2160 to cut costs. If you need
    more grunt, I'm running a E2160 1.8Ghz o/c'd to 3Ghz (9*333) with the
    stock hsf and my idle temp is 33C, heavy load 62C and hasn't missed a beat
    2 months 24/7.



    --
    Rob - Linux user number 467898 Ubuntu User number 17166
    Linux 2.6.22-14-generic - E2160 1.8Ghz running at 3.0Ghz
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    A 14.4 modem makes you want to get out and push!
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Rob Simpson, Mar 23, 2008
    #5
  6. thingy

    Rob Simpson Guest

    On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:48:06 +1300, Rob Simpson propped his eyelids open
    with toothpicks and wrote:

    Forgot, the Asus also has 2 x ieee1394a, one on the back plane and one mid-
    board.




    --
    Rob - Linux user number 467898 Ubuntu User number 17166
    Linux 2.6.22-14-generic - E2160 1.8Ghz running at 3.0Ghz
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    A 14.4 modem makes you want to get out and push!
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Rob Simpson, Mar 23, 2008
    #6
  7. thingy

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "RL" typed:
    > RL wrote:
    >> Gigabyte has a range of motherboards available with eight SATA
    >> ports. I can recommend the GA-P35-DS3R, which has six ports on the
    >> ICH9R, and another two on a RAID controller. The ICH9R supports
    >> RAID5.

    >
    > Sorry, this board only has one GbE port, and no IEEE1394. Some of the
    > other boards in the range may do, but the prices go up quite a bit at
    > the top end. Probably cheaper to buy another NIC and Firewire card.
    >
    > RL


    My ASUS P5KE-WiFi-AP board has the same chipset and has IEEE1394 and two
    ethernet ports. Unfortunately for thingy the extra 2 SATA ports are eSATA
    (although they're RAID-capable). The board is nice though, and relatively
    cheap. I have an E4500 in mine (2.2GHz stock) easilly doing 3.2GHz at the
    moment (and been stable at 3.3GHz but I decided to down-clock it a bit).
    --
    Shaun.
    ~misfit~, Mar 23, 2008
    #7
  8. In article <fs51gn$h6t$>, RL did write:

    > Since you're obviously familiar with Linux, you may wish to consider
    > Solaris or FreeBSD 7.0 with ZFS as well.


    A ZFS-type solution seems preferable to RAID for the longer term. I believe
    the BSD equivalent is HAMMER
    <http://kerneltrap.org/DragonFlyBSD/A_Better_HAMMER>, while some Linux
    folks are working on btrfs
    <http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Btrfs_Online_Resizing_Ext3_Conversion_and_More>.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Mar 23, 2008
    #8
  9. thingy

    thingy Guest

    Rob Simpson wrote:
    > On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:48:06 +1300, Rob Simpson propped his eyelids open
    > with toothpicks and wrote:
    >
    > Forgot, the Asus also has 2 x ieee1394a, one on the back plane and one mid-
    > board.
    >
    >
    >
    >


    Disadvantage, DDR3...however, I knew I had to compromise somewhere,
    buying addin cards to make it do what I want soon adds up and exhausts
    slots, so its looking a very good option.

    Case Im considering has 11 disk bays, a coolmaster cx810.

    thanks

    thing
    thingy, Mar 23, 2008
    #9
  10. thingy

    thingy Guest

    RL wrote:
    > thingy wrote:
    >> Recommendations for a case to hold lots of disk? We are looking at 8+
    >> disks....

    >
    > I have three Procase CRS9008 cases. These are budget rack cases with
    > eight 5.25" drive bays, and one 3.5". For my RAID, I wanted eight drives
    > in the RAID, a system drive, and room for a DVD, so I have two Kingwin
    > KF-4000-BK 4-in-3 SATA drive arrays installed in one of the cases. These
    > are also inexpensive, and would allow you to use a case designed for six
    > drives, but even those aren't easy to come by, as I'm sure you've found.
    >
    > The RAID on my system is controlled by a Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8, but
    > that is a PCI-X card, and would add another $150 or so to the price.
    >
    > Gigabyte has a range of motherboards available with eight SATA ports. I
    > can recommend the GA-P35-DS3R, which has six ports on the ICH9R, and
    > another two on a RAID controller. The ICH9R supports RAID5.
    >
    > Since you're obviously familiar with Linux, you may wish to consider
    > Solaris or FreeBSD 7.0 with ZFS as well. This is what I am using for my
    > RAID solution, and despite a few issues with a pre-release version of
    > FreeBSD 7.0, it seems to be working well.
    >
    > RL


    Im also familiar with Solaris, yes it has ZFS but Debian generally has
    so many interesting packages you can just get with apt-get that its hard
    not to go with it.

    Freebsd would be a learning curve I see no advantage with, cant see me
    changing my number plate either....

    ;]

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Mar 23, 2008
    #10
  11. thingy

    thingy Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Somewhere on teh intarweb "RL" typed:
    >> RL wrote:
    >>> Gigabyte has a range of motherboards available with eight SATA
    >>> ports. I can recommend the GA-P35-DS3R, which has six ports on the
    >>> ICH9R, and another two on a RAID controller. The ICH9R supports
    >>> RAID5.

    >> Sorry, this board only has one GbE port, and no IEEE1394. Some of the
    >> other boards in the range may do, but the prices go up quite a bit at
    >> the top end. Probably cheaper to buy another NIC and Firewire card.
    >>
    >> RL

    >
    > My ASUS P5KE-WiFi-AP board has the same chipset and has IEEE1394 and two
    > ethernet ports. Unfortunately for thingy the extra 2 SATA ports are eSATA
    > (although they're RAID-capable). The board is nice though, and relatively
    > cheap. I have an E4500 in mine (2.2GHz stock) easilly doing 3.2GHz at the
    > moment (and been stable at 3.3GHz but I decided to down-clock it a bit).


    Hi,

    Ive noticed that board, its top of my list so far, was thinking I could
    boot on the external ones as a raid 1, not ideal but doable. Otherwise I
    have a sata/firewire pci combo card but its the old sata std, but top
    speed for the boot disks is probably not an issue.

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Mar 23, 2008
    #11
  12. thingy

    thingy Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In article <fs51gn$h6t$>, RL did write:
    >
    >> Since you're obviously familiar with Linux, you may wish to consider
    >> Solaris or FreeBSD 7.0 with ZFS as well.

    >
    > A ZFS-type solution seems preferable to RAID for the longer term. I believe
    > the BSD equivalent is HAMMER
    > <http://kerneltrap.org/DragonFlyBSD/A_Better_HAMMER>, while some Linux
    > folks are working on btrfs
    > <http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Btrfs_Online_Resizing_Ext3_Conversion_and_More>.


    Not needed....

    I can just assign storage pools

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Mar 23, 2008
    #12
  13. In article <>, thingy did write:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>
    >> A ZFS-type solution seems preferable to RAID for the longer term. I
    >> believe the BSD equivalent is HAMMER
    >> <http://kerneltrap.org/DragonFlyBSD/A_Better_HAMMER>, while some Linux
    >> folks are working on btrfs
    >>

    <http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Btrfs_Online_Resizing_Ext3_Conversion_and_More>.
    >
    > Not needed....
    >
    > I can just assign storage pools


    What kind of redundancy?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Mar 24, 2008
    #13
  14. thingy

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "thingy" typed:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >> Somewhere on teh intarweb "RL" typed:
    >>> RL wrote:
    >>>> Gigabyte has a range of motherboards available with eight SATA
    >>>> ports. I can recommend the GA-P35-DS3R, which has six ports on the
    >>>> ICH9R, and another two on a RAID controller. The ICH9R supports
    >>>> RAID5.
    >>> Sorry, this board only has one GbE port, and no IEEE1394. Some of
    >>> the other boards in the range may do, but the prices go up quite a
    >>> bit at the top end. Probably cheaper to buy another NIC and
    >>> Firewire card. RL

    >>
    >> My ASUS P5KE-WiFi-AP board has the same chipset and has IEEE1394 and
    >> two ethernet ports. Unfortunately for thingy the extra 2 SATA ports
    >> are eSATA (although they're RAID-capable). The board is nice though,
    >> and relatively cheap. I have an E4500 in mine (2.2GHz stock) easilly
    >> doing 3.2GHz at the moment (and been stable at 3.3GHz but I decided
    >> to down-clock it a bit).

    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > Ive noticed that board, its top of my list so far, was thinking I
    > could boot on the external ones as a raid 1, not ideal but doable.
    > Otherwise I have a sata/firewire pci combo card but its the old sata
    > std, but top speed for the boot disks is probably not an issue.
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing


    Hi there.

    I can't speak highly enough of this board. It's been great and has well
    exceeded my expectations. For the price it's a steal.

    http://www.nzoczone.com/product_info.php?cPath=32_33&products_id=6517

    $220 ex GST. I bought mine from these guys (and paid a bit more than that).

    Don't be tempted to get the vanilla P5K as it has a much inferior vreg
    circuit, 3-phase I think. Oh, I guess you wouldn't anyway as it wouldn't
    have the features you want. The P5KE-WiFi-AP is built on the same board as
    the more expensive P5KE-Premium, including the 8-phase vreg. It just lacks a
    heatsink on half the vreg MOSFETs (I made my own out of a big old HS I had
    sitting around).

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.
    ~misfit~, Mar 24, 2008
    #14
  15. On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:12:44 +1300, ~misfit~ <> wrote:
    > ethernet ports. Unfortunately for thingy the extra 2 SATA ports are eSATA
    > (although they're RAID-capable). The board is nice though, and relatively
    > cheap. I have an E4500 in mine (2.2GHz stock) easilly doing 3.2GHz at the


    Heh... at first read I was wondering how you squashed an E4500 in
    there!!!!! http://www.sun.com/servers/midrange/e4500/

    Context is everything somedays :)

    Cheers, Liam
    Liam Greenwood, Mar 25, 2008
    #15
  16. thingy

    thingy Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In article <>, thingy did write:
    >
    >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>> A ZFS-type solution seems preferable to RAID for the longer term. I
    >>> believe the BSD equivalent is HAMMER
    >>> <http://kerneltrap.org/DragonFlyBSD/A_Better_HAMMER>, while some Linux
    >>> folks are working on btrfs
    >>>

    > <http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Btrfs_Online_Resizing_Ext3_Conversion_and_More>.
    >> Not needed....
    >>
    >> I can just assign storage pools

    >
    > What kind of redundancy?


    For the samba share, raid 5 or 1....for the storage pools
    JBOD...redundancy is not required. ie you just treat a disk as a tape.
    So If a disk dies do a full backup to a new/spare disk volume.

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Mar 25, 2008
    #16
  17. In article <>, thingy did write:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> In article <>, thingy did write:
    >>
    >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>> A ZFS-type solution seems preferable to RAID for the longer term. I
    >>>> believe the BSD equivalent is HAMMER
    >>>> <http://kerneltrap.org/DragonFlyBSD/A_Better_HAMMER>, while some Linux
    >>>> folks are working on btrfs
    >>>>

    >>

    <http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Btrfs_Online_Resizing_Ext3_Conversion_and_More>.
    >>> Not needed....
    >>>
    >>> I can just assign storage pools

    >>
    >> What kind of redundancy?

    >
    > ...for the storage pools
    > JBOD...redundancy is not required. ie you just treat a disk as a tape.
    > So If a disk dies do a full backup to a new/spare disk volume.


    So your storage pools are not for online storage, only for backups?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Mar 25, 2008
    #17
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