A Compact Camera For Low Light Spaces

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by gm, May 16, 2006.

  1. gm

    gm Guest

    For my job I need a camera that would ideally have the following features:

    1. FITS INTO A SHIRT POCKET. The lighter the better
    2. USB ON BOARD. I'd like to be able to easily connect to ANY PC and to avoid any special adopters for the output, unless they are common and inexpensive.
    3.LOW LIGHT CAPACITY. This is the most important feature. ISO 1600 at the very least. I need to take pictures in purely lit large spaces. The flash is no help.
    4. USE AA BATTERIES. I'd like to avoid any special batteries, chargers, adopters, etc.
    5. VIEWFINDER. When used at day light, LED screen in my old camera is useless.
    6.MPEG 4 RECORDING. Probably nice to have when taking clips.

    I am not a photographer. Probably missed some important features. Please, do not shy to advise.
    Thank you very much in advance for any help.

    gm
    gm, May 16, 2006
    #1
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  2. gm <> writes:

    > For my job I need a camera that would ideally have the following features:
    >
    > 1. FITS INTO A SHIRT POCKET. The lighter the better
    > 2. USB ON BOARD. I'd like to be able to easily connect to ANY PC and to avoid any special adopters for the output, unless they are common and inexpensive.
    > 3.LOW LIGHT CAPACITY. This is the most important feature. ISO 1600 at the very least. I need to take pictures in purely lit large spaces. The flash is no help.
    > 4. USE AA BATTERIES. I'd like to avoid any special batteries, chargers, adopters, etc.
    > 5. VIEWFINDER. When used at day light, LED screen in my old camera is useless.
    > 6.MPEG 4 RECORDING. Probably nice to have when taking clips. I am not
    > a photographer. Probably missed some important features. Please, do
    > not shy to advise.
    > Thank you very much in advance for any help.


    Nothing exists that meets those specs. In particular, cameras that
    fit into shirt pockets essentially never take AA batteries
    (unfortunately). Also, modern small designs rarely have viewfinders.

    However, the Fuji F11 comes decently close. It has the best high-ISO
    around in a compact camera. Since that's the most important feature,
    this is what you need to get (I've got one, so my info is
    first-hand). (The not-yet-released F30 sounds good too.)

    It doesn't have a viewfinder, it doesn't use AA batteries, it takes a
    stupid external adapter to connect to USB and to its charger (but at
    least it comes with the adapter). It also has annoying limitations in
    its user interface, like no histogram display and no manual exposure
    control.

    I don't know technical details of the video mode, may or may not meet
    your requirement there.
    --
    David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
    RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
    Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
    Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
    David Dyer-Bennet, May 16, 2006
    #2
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  3. gm

    RW+/- Guest

    On Mon, 15 May 2006 23:13:13 -0400, gm wrote:

    > For my job I need a camera that would ideally have the following features:
    >
    > 1. FITS INTO A SHIRT POCKET. The lighter the better
    > 2. USB ON BOARD. I'd like to be able to easily connect to ANY PC and to avoid any special adopters for the output, unless they are common and inexpensive.
    > 3.LOW LIGHT CAPACITY. This is the most important feature. ISO 1600 at the very least. I need to take pictures in purely lit large spaces. The flash is no help.
    > 4. USE AA BATTERIES. I'd like to avoid any special batteries, chargers, adopters, etc.
    > 5. VIEWFINDER. When used at day light, LED screen in my old camera is useless.
    > 6.MPEG 4 RECORDING. Probably nice to have when taking clips.
    >
    > I am not a photographer. Probably missed some important features. Please, do not shy to advise.
    > Thank you very much in advance for any help.
    >
    > gm


    How much are you willing to spend?
    RW+/-, May 16, 2006
    #3
  4. gm

    Rutger Guest

    "gm" <> schreef in bericht
    news:715b5$44694326$cef88999$...
    > For my job I need a camera that would ideally have the following features:
    >
    > 1. FITS INTO A SHIRT POCKET. The lighter the better
    > 2. USB ON BOARD. I'd like to be able to easily connect to ANY PC and to
    > avoid any special adopters for the output, unless they are common and
    > inexpensive.
    > 3.LOW LIGHT CAPACITY. This is the most important feature. ISO 1600 at the
    > very least. I need to take pictures in purely lit large spaces. The flash
    > is no help.
    > 4. USE AA BATTERIES. I'd like to avoid any special batteries, chargers,
    > adopters, etc.
    > 5. VIEWFINDER. When used at day light, LED screen in my old camera is
    > useless.
    > 6.MPEG 4 RECORDING. Probably nice to have when taking clips.


    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp

    Rutger

    --
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/zwaarddrager/
    Rutger, May 16, 2006
    #4
  5. gm

    gm Guest

    RW+/- wrote:
    > On Mon, 15 May 2006 23:13:13 -0400, gm wrote:
    >
    >> For my job I need a camera that would ideally have the following features:
    >>
    >> 1. FITS INTO A SHIRT POCKET. The lighter the better
    >> 2. USB ON BOARD. I'd like to be able to easily connect to ANY PC and to avoid any special adopters for the output, unless they are common and inexpensive.
    >> 3.LOW LIGHT CAPACITY. This is the most important feature. ISO 1600 at the very least. I need to take pictures in purely lit large spaces. The flash is no help.
    >> 4. USE AA BATTERIES. I'd like to avoid any special batteries, chargers, adopters, etc.
    >> 5. VIEWFINDER. When used at day light, LED screen in my old camera is useless.
    >> 6.MPEG 4 RECORDING. Probably nice to have when taking clips.
    >>
    >> I am not a photographer. Probably missed some important features. Please, do not shy to advise.
    >> Thank you very much in advance for any help.
    >>
    >> gm

    >
    > How much are you willing to spend?


    Probably up to $400.
    gm, May 16, 2006
    #5
  6. gm

    gm Guest

    David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
    > gm <> writes:
    >
    >> For my job I need a camera that would ideally have the following features:
    >>
    >> 1. FITS INTO A SHIRT POCKET. The lighter the better
    >> 2. USB ON BOARD. I'd like to be able to easily connect to ANY PC and to avoid any special adopters for the output, unless they are common and inexpensive.
    >> 3.LOW LIGHT CAPACITY. This is the most important feature. ISO 1600 at the very least. I need to take pictures in purely lit large spaces. The flash is no help.
    >> 4. USE AA BATTERIES. I'd like to avoid any special batteries, chargers, adopters, etc.
    >> 5. VIEWFINDER. When used at day light, LED screen in my old camera is useless.
    >> 6.MPEG 4 RECORDING. Probably nice to have when taking clips. I am not
    >> a photographer. Probably missed some important features. Please, do
    >> not shy to advise.
    >> Thank you very much in advance for any help.

    >
    > Nothing exists that meets those specs. In particular, cameras that
    > fit into shirt pockets essentially never take AA batteries
    > (unfortunately). Also, modern small designs rarely have viewfinders.
    >
    > However, the Fuji F11 comes decently close. It has the best high-ISO
    > around in a compact camera. Since that's the most important feature,
    > this is what you need to get (I've got one, so my info is
    > first-hand). (The not-yet-released F30 sounds good too.)
    >
    > It doesn't have a viewfinder, it doesn't use AA batteries, it takes a
    > stupid external adapter to connect to USB and to its charger (but at
    > least it comes with the adapter). It also has annoying limitations in
    > its user interface, like no histogram display and no manual exposure
    > control.
    >
    > I don't know technical details of the video mode, may or may not meet
    > your requirement there.


    David,
    It's the "stupid external adapter" that turned me off the most. Strange, even eBay and Froogle do not have it.
    Thanks for the info.

    gm
    gm, May 16, 2006
    #6
  7. gm

    gm Guest

    Rutger wrote:
    > "gm" <> schreef in bericht
    > news:715b5$44694326$cef88999$...
    >> For my job I need a camera that would ideally have the following features:
    >>
    >> 1. FITS INTO A SHIRT POCKET. The lighter the better
    >> 2. USB ON BOARD. I'd like to be able to easily connect to ANY PC and to
    >> avoid any special adopters for the output, unless they are common and
    >> inexpensive.
    >> 3.LOW LIGHT CAPACITY. This is the most important feature. ISO 1600 at the
    >> very least. I need to take pictures in purely lit large spaces. The flash
    >> is no help.
    >> 4. USE AA BATTERIES. I'd like to avoid any special batteries, chargers,
    >> adopters, etc.
    >> 5. VIEWFINDER. When used at day light, LED screen in my old camera is
    >> useless.
    >> 6.MPEG 4 RECORDING. Probably nice to have when taking clips.

    >
    > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp
    >
    > Rutger
    >


    Thanks for the link. I bookmarked it. I wish they included ISO as well in the search.
    gm
    gm, May 16, 2006
    #7
  8. gm

    gm Guest

    gm, May 16, 2006
    #8
  9. gm

    tomm42 Guest

    >
    > David,
    > It's the "stupid external adapter" that turned me off the most. Strange, even eBay and Froogle do not have it.
    > Thanks for the info.
    >
    > gm


    Just set up your computer with a card reader $20, far easier to use
    than cludgy camera interfaces. All my computers at home and at work
    have them.

    Tom
    tomm42, May 16, 2006
    #9
  10. gm

    gm Guest

    tomm42 wrote:
    >> David,
    >> It's the "stupid external adapter" that turned me off the most. Strange, even eBay and Froogle do not have it.
    >> Thanks for the info.
    >>
    >> gm

    >
    > Just set up your computer with a card reader $20, far easier to use
    > than cludgy camera interfaces. All my computers at home and at work
    > have them.
    >
    > Tom
    >


    Tom,
    Thanks for the solution. It makes F30 from Fuji very attractive. No other compact comes close to ISO 3200.
    gm
    gm, May 16, 2006
    #10
  11. gm

    DHB Guest

    On Tue, 16 May 2006 07:19:31 -0400, gm <> wrote:

    >Rutger wrote:
    >> "gm" <> schreef in bericht
    >> news:715b5$44694326$cef88999$...
    >>> For my job I need a camera that would ideally have the following features:
    >>>
    >>> 1. FITS INTO A SHIRT POCKET. The lighter the better
    >>> 2. USB ON BOARD. I'd like to be able to easily connect to ANY PC and to
    >>> avoid any special adopters for the output, unless they are common and
    >>> inexpensive.
    >>> 3.LOW LIGHT CAPACITY. This is the most important feature. ISO 1600 at the
    >>> very least. I need to take pictures in purely lit large spaces. The flash
    >>> is no help.
    >>> 4. USE AA BATTERIES. I'd like to avoid any special batteries, chargers,
    >>> adopters, etc.
    >>> 5. VIEWFINDER. When used at day light, LED screen in my old camera is
    >>> useless.
    >>> 6.MPEG 4 RECORDING. Probably nice to have when taking clips.

    >>
    >> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp
    >>
    >> Rutger
    >>

    >
    >Thanks for the link. I bookmarked it. I wish they included ISO as well in the search.
    >gm


    gm,

    Purchased a FUJI F10 for my mother who is strictly a full auto
    P&S (point & shoot) user. The supplied USB / Battery charger setup is
    not worth the hassle, especially if your traveling on vacation.

    On the plus side, it's a great pocket size camera that takes
    very good pictures, even in low light & thus far it has no competition
    especially considering it's ISO 1600 capability.

    As for overcoming it's disadvantages, that's very easy &
    inexpensive to do. I purchased a Sandisk 5-in-1 USB 2.0 card reader
    (about $17.00 US). Also a small generic battery charger & a spare
    generic Li-ion battery both from SterlingTek & @ a total cost of
    (about $32.00 US).

    Here is the link to SterlingTek: http://www.sterlingtek.com/

    You can do business with anybody you wish, I only included
    them because they seem to be very well regarded & I have no complaints
    with anything I have purchased from them. Their prices for most
    things are very reasonable too.

    The battery in the F10/F11 lasts a very long time so in most
    cases you won't need the 2nd but with proprietary batteries it's
    always a good idea to have a spare with you. Also this setup allows
    you to charge 1 while using the other. My sister also purchased a
    Fuji F10 & took it on a cruise, took 314 pictures, viewed & reviewed
    (showed the picture to others) on it's large 2.5" LCD & never needed
    the 2nd battery.

    Lastly, get a larger memory card, this is true with virtually
    all cameras because if it ships with a card it's usually almost so
    small in capacity that it's basically a joke. 16MB in a 6.3MP camera
    is painfully tiny. My sister had a 1GB card in her's & her 314
    pictures took up about 90% of the card with the camera set to the
    highest size & best (lowest) JEPG compression.

    Hope this info. is of value to you & I am waiting for the
    release of the new F30 to see if it is as good as the specs claim, if
    so I'll likely go with that for general use when I want to travel
    light (without my DSLR & lenses). Also it should make for a good
    emergency backup to the DSLR & a supplementary camera too. Hopefully
    Fuji did not get too aggressive with their 2 stage in-camera noise
    reduction in order to offer an ISO of 3200. If they only changed the
    noise reduction for the ISO 3200 setting than the lower settings
    should be at least as good as the F10/F11.

    If they got too aggressive with their in-camera noise
    reduction which may also effect the lower ISO settings adversely, then
    I will buy the F11 instead if they are still available @ the time.

    Best of luck in your search / camera selection.

    Respectfully, DHB





    "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
    or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
    is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
    to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
    DHB, May 16, 2006
    #11
  12. gm

    Bill Funk Guest

    Bill Funk, May 16, 2006
    #12
  13. gm

    m Ransley Guest

    How poorly lit a space and what detail is needed , does it have to be
    handheld. Alot of P&S do time exposure, I use a Sony w5 for 30 second
    night shots that are very good. Im sure there are better out now but the
    limitations of any camera need to be understood. and worked with. For
    the best quality a tripod and 100 iso are the norm. The latest, new high
    iso camera would have little benefit to me since I would use a 100iso
    and a tripod anyway. You want to use iso 1600, why, its noisy.
    m Ransley, May 16, 2006
    #13
  14. gm

    gm Guest

    Bill Funk wrote:
    > On Tue, 16 May 2006 07:29:15 -0400, gm <> wrote:
    >
    >>> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp
    >>>
    >>> Rutger
    >>>

    >> Looks like this is "Canon Only" site.

    >
    > ???
    > How so?


    No matter what I searched for, the answer was " Too many results, only first 10 shown, please try to be more specific.". And all the 10 shown were Canons only. Always. Looks like a pattern, does not it?

    gm
    gm, May 16, 2006
    #14
  15. gm

    Bill Funk Guest

    On Tue, 16 May 2006 11:55:02 -0400, gm <> wrote:

    >Bill Funk wrote:
    >> On Tue, 16 May 2006 07:29:15 -0400, gm <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp
    >>>>
    >>>> Rutger
    >>>>
    >>> Looks like this is "Canon Only" site.

    >>
    >> ???
    >> How so?

    >
    >No matter what I searched for, the answer was " Too many results,

    only first 10 shown, please try to be more specific.". And all the 10
    shown were Canons only. Always. Looks like a pattern, does not it?
    >
    >gm


    It's a pattern that sugests that there are many cameras that meet your
    needs.
    As to why Canons come up, I don't know; maybe there are a lot more
    Canons that meet your needs than other brands? Maybe it's done
    alphabetically, with Canon being first there?

    Instead of making accusations you can't support, try doing the obvious
    to get what you want: be more specific. :)
    --
    Bill Funk
    replace "g" with "a"
    Bill Funk, May 16, 2006
    #15
  16. gm

    Rutger Guest

    "gm" <> schreef in bericht
    news:dd4d9$4469f58c$cef88999$...
    > Bill Funk wrote:
    >> On Tue, 16 May 2006 07:29:15 -0400, gm <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp
    >>>>
    >>>> Rutger
    >>>>
    >>> Looks like this is "Canon Only" site.

    >>
    >> ???
    >> How so?

    >
    > No matter what I searched for, the answer was " Too many results, only
    > first 10 shown, please try to be more specific.". And all the 10 shown
    > were Canons only. Always. Looks like a pattern, does not it?


    Propably in alfabetical order. Try narrowing your search.

    Rutger

    --
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/zwaarddrager/
    Rutger, May 16, 2006
    #16
  17. gm

    gm Guest

    >
    > Hope this info. is of value to you & I am waiting for the
    > release of the new F30 to see if it is as good as the specs claim, if
    > so I'll likely go with that for general use when I want to travel
    > light (without my DSLR & lenses). Also it should make for a good
    > emergency backup to the DSLR & a supplementary camera too. Hopefully
    > Fuji did not get too aggressive with their 2 stage in-camera noise
    > reduction in order to offer an ISO of 3200. If they only changed the
    > noise reduction for the ISO 3200 setting than the lower settings
    > should be at least as good as the F10/F11.
    >
    > If they got too aggressive with their in-camera noise
    > reduction which may also effect the lower ISO settings adversely, then
    > I will buy the F11 instead if they are still available @ the time.
    >
    > Best of luck in your search / camera selection.
    >
    > Respectfully, DHB


    DHB,

    Thank you very much for the detailed info. Very useful. I too may wait for F30 to arrive. ISO 3200 is too tempting.
    Best Regards,

    gm
    gm, May 16, 2006
    #17
  18. gm

    J. Clarke Guest

    gm wrote:

    > Bill Funk wrote:
    >> On Tue, 16 May 2006 07:29:15 -0400, gm <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp
    >>>>
    >>>> Rutger
    >>>>
    >>> Looks like this is "Canon Only" site.

    >>
    >> ???
    >> How so?

    >
    > No matter what I searched for, the answer was " Too many results, only
    > first 10 shown, please try to be more specific.". And all the 10 shown
    > were Canons only. Always. Looks like a pattern, does not it?


    It is a pattern. What brand comes lower in the alphabet than Canon?

    > gm


    --
    --John
    to email, dial "usenet" and validate
    (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
    J. Clarke, May 16, 2006
    #18
  19. gm

    J. Clarke Guest

    Rutger wrote:

    >
    >
    > "gm" <> schreef in bericht
    > news:dd4d9$4469f58c$cef88999$...
    >> Bill Funk wrote:
    >>> On Tue, 16 May 2006 07:29:15 -0400, gm <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Rutger
    >>>>>
    >>>> Looks like this is "Canon Only" site.
    >>>
    >>> ???
    >>> How so?

    >>
    >> No matter what I searched for, the answer was " Too many results, only
    >> first 10 shown, please try to be more specific.". And all the 10 shown
    >> were Canons only. Always. Looks like a pattern, does not it?

    >
    > Propably in alfabetical order. Try narrowing your search.


    The search engine doesn't seem to be terribly useful for the OP's purpose in
    any case. Doesn't allow one to search on maximum aperture or ISO for
    example.

    > Rutger
    >


    --
    --John
    to email, dial "usenet" and validate
    (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
    J. Clarke, May 16, 2006
    #19
  20. "tomm42" <> writes:

    > >
    > > David,
    > > It's the "stupid external adapter" that turned me off the most. Strange, even eBay and Froogle do not have it.
    > > Thanks for the info.

    >
    > Just set up your computer with a card reader $20, far easier to use
    > than cludgy camera interfaces. All my computers at home and at work
    > have them.


    You need the adapter to charge the battery.
    --
    David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
    RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
    Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
    Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
    David Dyer-Bennet, May 16, 2006
    #20
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