A+ Certification vs. Testking

Discussion in 'Microsoft Certification' started by =?Utf-8?B?UGlzc2Vy?=, Feb 13, 2004.

  1. Why doesn't Microsoft shut down sites like 'Testking'? I just invested time and money on an employee who I let go, after I found out that he cheated by obtaining the answers for his exam from this braindump. I can understand him using braindumps to pass the OS part of the exam. But how on earth did he pass the hardware part of the exam???

    fustrated.......:(
     
    =?Utf-8?B?UGlzc2Vy?=, Feb 13, 2004
    #1
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  2. =?Utf-8?B?UGlzc2Vy?=

    Guest Guest

    Pisser,
    It seems that your complaint is due to Comptia issue, so perhaps you
    should complain to them.

    "Pisser" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Why doesn't Microsoft shut down sites like 'Testking'? I just invested
    > time and money on an employee who I let go, after I found out that he
    > cheated by obtaining the answers for his exam from this braindump. I can
    > understand him using braindumps to pass the OS part of the exam. But how
    > on earth did he pass the hardware part of the exam????
    >
    > fustrated.......:(
     
    Guest, Feb 14, 2004
    #2
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  3. On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:36:06 -0800, Pisser
    <> wrote:

    >Why doesn't Microsoft shut down sites like 'Testking'? I just invested time and money on an employee who I let go, after I found out that he cheated by obtaining the answers for his exam from this braindump. I can understand him using braindumps to pass the OS part of the exam. But how on earth did he pass the hardware part of the exam????
    >
    >fustrated.......:(


    P155er
    This may seem harsh but I think you've acted unfairly.

    Didnt you carry out due dilligence before you hired (say a technical
    interview) to check this candidate had what it took to learn say by
    setting them a research task before interview ?

    Ongoing personal development of staff aint something you dust off the
    paperwork for once a year! When my guys train I work with them and
    even mentor if its a subject I know about (say windows 3.1 and MSDOS
    70-030). That way I know they know less than me (*kidding*).
    Seriously, it should have been obvious long before you found he
    charged the company credit card twice!

    Weren't you watching? Dont you feel you failed this person somehow by
    either setting him/her unreasonable, unachievable goals and then
    allowed them to plough on without any mentoring or monitoring from
    your side only to fire them when they took a short cut that you
    probably forced them into!

    Shame on you for FAILING your staff and failing in your duty as a
    manager. You should have spotted this before he got to his SECOND
    exam!
    <Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh!>


    ================================
    My Hero:
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/index.html
    (remove vroomfondle to email me)
    ================================
     
    Marlin Munrow, Feb 16, 2004
    #3
  4. Marlin
    I think you misunderstood....I hired this individual after he/her obtained his/her A+ Cert. on their own money & time. I gave this individual many opportunities and worked together on the same projects. I offered in the beginning to pay for their MCSA training. They didn't want to take me up on the offer. We didn't leave on a bad note, the individual came forth and openly admitted to not understanding the material and concepts very well because he took a short cut with 'Testking'. I was never once confrontational, and un-understanding. Where did I go wrong? I have managed people & groups for 10 yrs. and believe the secret to a good working relationship is keeping them happy, financially and emotionally
     
    =?Utf-8?B?UGlzc2Vy?=, Feb 17, 2004
    #4
  5. On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:31:05 -0800, Pisser
    <> wrote:

    >Marlin,
    >I think you misunderstood....I hired this individual after he/her obtained

    his/her A+ Cert. on their own money & time.
    I gave this individual many opportunities and worked together on the
    same projects. I offered in the beginning to pay for their MCSA
    training. They didn't want to take me up on the offer. We didn't leave
    on a bad note, the individual came forth and openly admitted to not
    understanding the material and concepts very well because he took a
    short cut with 'Testking'. I was never once confrontational, and
    un-understanding. Where did I go wrong? I have managed people & groups
    for 10 yrs. and believe the secret to a good working relationship is
    keeping them happy, financially and emotionally.
    >

    Sounds like I did.

    Your post seemed to infer the person had cheated you and didnt really
    talk about the support you gave (maybe its the word wrap settings on
    your ng software that meant I missed it)

    Like you I've been managing over 10 years and I'd say (like me) that
    you've been burned. You gotta be able to separate real talent from
    your own feelings of sympathy. I have been burned and now am ruthless
    at the interview stage. I dont think its worth investing the time if
    I'm not sure.

    Candidates complain after interview (the one's I dont hire) but the
    ones I do hire are stayers with commitment to asking for help early.
    I even had one guy at an interview say to me after I closed the
    interview with the comment that his skills werent up to the job that
    *he* could ask questions about subjects that my team couldnt answer
    (yes it was a team interview!)

    Where did you go wrong? If caring and sympathy are bad then thats
    where. Commercially you gave a borderline case (who you were either
    conned by or felt sympathy for) a chance. Bottom line is that you
    gotta take care of your business and only make sound investments. I'm
    not above asking advice and frequently do. If you'll accept the offer
    of advice of someone who got you wrong before its this:

    If you have any doubts over a hire, try to get rid of those doubts
    before offering. I tend to tell the truth to candidates I'm in two
    minds about and tell them why. Often their response tells me if
    they're right or wrong.

    Sorry to cause offence, I clearly didnt get where you were coming
    from. (even though BOFH is my hero, I'm willing to admit I'm wrong)

    ================================
    My Hero:
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/index.html
    (remove vroomfondle to email me)
    ================================
     
    Marlin Munrow, Feb 17, 2004
    #5
  6. Considering that a lot 17 year olds can obtain an A+ may I suggest hiring
    students from the local college co-op/internship program. You don't have to
    pay them much to begin with (possibly even government subsidized/tax
    writeoffs) and you can really see what they know and teach them your own
    stuff too.

    It takes a bit of time investment, but if it doesn't work out, you haven't
    wasted as much.

    If 17 is too young or immature for you, you can easily find people in the
    21-25 range.

    That's how I got started where I work.


    --
    Colin Nash
    Microsoft MVP
    Windows Printing/Imaging/Hardware



    "Pisser" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Why doesn't Microsoft shut down sites like 'Testking'? I just invested

    time and money on an employee who I let go, after I found out that he
    cheated by obtaining the answers for his exam from this braindump. I can
    understand him using braindumps to pass the OS part of the exam. But how on
    earth did he pass the hardware part of the exam????
    >
    > fustrated.......:(
     
    Colin Nash [MVP], Feb 17, 2004
    #6
  7. Colin & Marlin
    Thanks for your candor and sharing your personal experiences regarding certification and paths that you have taken to insure the validity and credentials of potential new hires. I will keep that advice close to me. However, there was still one stone unturned. Why doesn't Microsoft shut down sites like Testking and perhaphs even prosecute individuals who knowingly purchase these cheat sheets?
    Regards, Redemptio
     
    =?Utf-8?B?UGlzc2Vy?=, Feb 17, 2004
    #7
  8. I've heard that they do shut down those types of sites. I'm sure they've
    heard of testking so I'm not sure why they haven't been able to do anything
    about that one. Maybe the site is actually willing to stand up to the
    letters' from Microsoft's army of lawyers...




    "Pisser" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Colin & Marlin,
    > Thanks for your candor and sharing your personal experiences regarding

    certification and paths that you have taken to insure the validity and
    credentials of potential new hires. I will keep that advice close to me.
    However, there was still one stone unturned. Why doesn't Microsoft shut down
    sites like Testking and perhaphs even prosecute individuals who knowingly
    purchase these cheat sheets?
    > Regards, Redemption
    >
     
    Colin Nash [MVP], Feb 17, 2004
    #8
  9. On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:56:10 -0800, Pisser
    <> wrote:

    >Colin & Marlin,
    >Thanks for your candor and sharing your personal experiences regarding certification

    and paths that you have taken to insure the validity and credentials
    of potential new hires. I will keep that advice close to me. However,
    there was still one stone unturned. Why doesn't Microsoft shut down
    sites like Testking and perhaphs even prosecute individuals who
    knowingly purchase these cheat sheets?
    >Regards, Redemption


    Agreed.

    I have always believed that these sites contain so much erroeous info
    that if you simply memorised the answers you'd fail.

    From what you say about the A+ stuff though that isnt the case.

    Prosecution of individuals will be nearly impossible becuase the
    lawyers could argue quite effectively that you could locate the site
    by searching for something like "certitfication prep tests" and using
    the marketing words on their site as justification that the person had
    not intended to "cheat" (long stretch I know but lawyers are very good
    at arguing these points!)

    Also, for every one person that *was* prosecuted for purchasing, how
    many would subsequently use the same material by downloading for free
    from a binary news group or other un tracked web site. You *do* see
    them posted in binaries groups all the time - there are some there
    this morning!

    I think the only way to deal with this plague is to make sure the
    questions get cycled every 13 weeks and the old used questions are
    released for free on the Microsoft site as mocks. This will make the
    exams more expensive but make them fairer.

    If dumps were rendered ineffective, then individuals would cease using
    them ?
    ================================
    My Hero:
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/index.html
    (remove vroomfondle to email me)
    ================================
     
    Marlin Munrow, Feb 18, 2004
    #9
  10. =?Utf-8?B?UGlzc2Vy?=

    stratamite Guest

    I could think of nothing more embarrassing than to pass the exam then
    land a job and not know squat about it.
    I'm taking the A+ exam in April and will pass honestly due to hard work. I
    will be a worthy investment.
    "Pisser" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Why doesn't Microsoft shut down sites like 'Testking'? I just invested

    time and money on an employee who I let go, after I found out that he
    cheated by obtaining the answers for his exam from this braindump. I can
    understand him using braindumps to pass the OS part of the exam. But how on
    earth did he pass the hardware part of the exam????
    >
    > fustrated.......:(
     
    stratamite, Feb 19, 2004
    #10
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