A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lennier, Nov 21, 2003.

  1. Lennier

    Lennier Guest

    Wave.co.nz is rejecting email being sent by Xtra customers who do not use
    Xtra's SMTP server.

    Lennier


    --
    I specifically DENY Xtra, and Telecom NZ Ltd, and all other subsidiaries
    of Telecom NZ Ltd, the right to use the contents of this digital
    communication for any purpose whatsoever, whether in whole or in part -
    regardless of how it is stored or transmitted through Xtra's network.
     
    Lennier, Nov 21, 2003
    #1
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  2. Lennier

    Lennier Guest

    Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

    On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:25:18 +1200, Peter Huebner wrote:

    > After shagging around a hell of a lot of time to no end I decided that
    > the best thing to do is to simply set up a relay mail server at my end.
    > Mercury32 is up at all times on my gateway machine now. I have the MerRi
    > plugin daemon which takes Mercury from offline to online the moment an
    > interface with the 'net is open; the rest of the time the smtp server
    > accepts calls from the lan regardless and queues them for delivery when
    > online. Perfect solution. Only thing I ever will have to change is where
    > the relay server dumps its mail, as you describe above. All client
    > machnes and client software are umtouched by any changes.


    The only problem with this is.... I am not using ANY version of Windows on
    my servers - they are Linux machines - and Mercury32 is a Windows
    application. I need good (non-Microsoft) Linux solutions.


    Lennier

    --
    I specifically DENY Xtra, and Telecom NZ Ltd, and all other subsidiaries
    of Telecom NZ Ltd, the right to use the contents of this digital
    communication for any purpose whatsoever, whether in whole or in part -
    regardless of how it is stored or transmitted through Xtra's network.
     
    Lennier, Nov 21, 2003
    #2
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  3. Lennier

    Lennier Guest

    Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

    On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:08:04 +1200, R-Slicks wrote:

    >>The only problem with this is.... I am not using ANY version of Windows
    >>on my servers - they are Linux machines - and Mercury32 is a Windows
    >>application. I need good (non-Microsoft) Linux solutions.

    >
    > What ??? The Linux world failing you now, Lennier ?


    No - dumb ISPs who refuse connections from dialup IP numbers is what the
    problem is.

    And I didn't think I'd need to relay email when I should have been able to
    send it directly to the relevant server.

    Maybe POSTFIX or SENDMAIL can act as a relay - I just haven't explored
    them that throughly yet.

    Lennier


    --
    I specifically DENY Xtra, and Telecom NZ Ltd, and all other subsidiaries
    of Telecom NZ Ltd, the right to use the contents of this digital
    communication for any purpose whatsoever, whether in whole or in part -
    regardless of how it is stored or transmitted through Xtra's network.
     
    Lennier, Nov 21, 2003
    #3
  4. Lennier

    Mainlander Guest

    Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

    In article <pan.2003.07.10.13.29.10.946440@TRACKER>,
    lid says...
    > Wave.co.nz is rejecting email being sent by Xtra customers who do not use
    > Xtra's SMTP server.


    You mean Xtra customers who dial up on an Xtra connection, and try to use
    Wave's SMTP server? It's called blocking relaying, and is
    extreeeeeeemmmmmmeeeeeeelllllllyyyyyyyyyy common practice.
     
    Mainlander, Nov 21, 2003
    #4
  5. Lennier

    Mainlander Guest

    Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

    In article <pan.2003.07.11.06.54.24.603440@TRACKER>,
    lid says...
    > On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:28:41 +1200, Matthew G Brown wrote:
    >
    > > Actually many people do this . We do for 1
    > >
    > > Why ?
    > >
    > > It allows us to not receive mail from known dynamic netblocks , IE: Xtra
    > > or WAVE's dialup ports. The theory is that if its Dynamic IP then it
    > > shouldn't be sending mail and can use an upstream MTA. Many MTA's reject
    > > mail for just this reason as dialup & cable connection make up a large
    > > amount of the spamming hosts. \Note that this technique is virtually non
    > > effective these days. Read about Dialup User Stopper at
    > > http://mail-abuse.org/rbl/enduser.html

    >
    > Well it's nothing more than a pain in the neck. I have to post through
    > Xtra's SMTP server only for my mate who's ISP is Wave.co.nz . Everyone
    > else I can send to using my own server.
    >
    > I want to be as unreliant on Xtra's "services" as I can be - so that if I
    > wish to change ISP I'd only have to alter settings on two machines.
    > (the network server and the router)


    So get another ISP
     
    Mainlander, Nov 21, 2003
    #5
  6. Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted throughXtra's SMTP server

    Mainlander wrote:
    > In article <pan.2003.07.10.13.29.10.946440@TRACKER>,
    > lid says...
    >
    >>Wave.co.nz is rejecting email being sent by Xtra customers who do not use
    >>Xtra's SMTP server.

    >
    >
    > You mean Xtra customers who dial up on an Xtra connection, and try to use
    > Wave's SMTP server? It's called blocking relaying, and is
    > extreeeeeeemmmmmmeeeeeeelllllllyyyyyyyyyy common practice.


    I think you miss his point. Hes talking about the SMTP server RECIEVING
    the email (wave.co.nz). Hes using his own SMTP server to send it.

    The practice that wave are guilty of, is refusing connections from what
    it thinks are dialup IP addresses. Whether they have sent spam or not.

    The negative consequence of this, is that it moves the internet slowly
    towards a situation where only big corporations are trusted, and the
    individual user is not. Further centralising and commercialising the net.
     
    Kurt Häusler, Nov 21, 2003
    #6
  7. Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted throughXtra's SMTP server

    Mainlander wrote:

    >>Well it's nothing more than a pain in the neck. I have to post through
    >>Xtra's SMTP server only for my mate who's ISP is Wave.co.nz . Everyone
    >>else I can send to using my own server.
    >>
    >>I want to be as unreliant on Xtra's "services" as I can be - so that if I
    >>wish to change ISP I'd only have to alter settings on two machines.
    >>(the network server and the router)

    >
    >
    > So get another ISP


    I think you miss his point again. Its not his ISP thats at fault here,
    its wave; the ISP of the indented recipient.

    They are discriminating against dialup users, in effect saying only big
    corporations have the right to send emails, and the little people are
    all spammers. It insists that little guys have to ask a big corporation
    to send his email on his behalf rather than directly.

    Its of minimal advantage in the fight against spam, and a huge annoyance
    for home users and small businesses that run their own SMTP servers.
    Especially if their ISP is an IP only provider.

    What wave is doing, is forcing such customers to pay for a third party
    service to send email on their behalf, when they shouldnt have to, just
    to satisfy the misguided ideas of a small number of ISPs.
     
    Kurt Häusler, Nov 21, 2003
    #7
  8. Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

    On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:54:09 +0100, Kurt Häusler wrote:

    > The practice that wave are guilty of, is refusing connections from what
    > it thinks are dialup IP addresses. Whether they have sent spam or not.


    Their server, their fucking rules.

    When you pay Wave to operate their server then you can claim a right to
    send mail to them. When you pay me to operate my server then you can claim
    a right to deliver mail to me.

    Otherwise you have access at the reciever's whim ONLY.

    Xtra dialups are a common source of spam, it makes sense to refuse
    direct-to-MX connections as a result.
     
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Nov 21, 2003
    #8
  9. Lennier

    Enkidu Guest

    On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:57:34 +1300, Lennier
    <> wrote:
    >
    >Wave.co.nz is rejecting email being sent by Xtra customers who do not use
    >Xtra's SMTP server.
    >

    Why don't they just reject all email from Xtra like I do.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign
    that the conspiracy is working.
     
    Enkidu, Nov 21, 2003
    #9
  10. Lennier

    Enkidu Guest

    Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

    On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:48:49 +0100, "Uncle StoatWarbler"
    <> wrote:

    >On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:54:09 +0100, Kurt Häusler wrote:
    >
    >> The practice that wave are guilty of, is refusing connections from what
    >> it thinks are dialup IP addresses. Whether they have sent spam or not.

    >
    >Their server, their fucking rules.
    >
    >When you pay Wave to operate their server then you can claim a right to
    >send mail to them. When you pay me to operate my server then you can claim
    >a right to deliver mail to me.
    >
    >Otherwise you have access at the reciever's whim ONLY.
    >
    >Xtra dialups are a common source of spam, it makes sense to refuse
    >direct-to-MX connections as a result.
    >

    Lennier's server may not reverse resolve as well.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign
    that the conspiracy is working.
     
    Enkidu, Nov 21, 2003
    #10
  11. Lennier

    Mainlander Guest

    Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

    In article <>,
    says...
    > On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:57:34 +1300, Lennier
    > <> wrote:
    > >
    > >Wave.co.nz is rejecting email being sent by Xtra customers who do not use
    > >Xtra's SMTP server.
    > >

    > Why don't they just reject all email from Xtra like I do.


    Another fool who tries to tell people they shouldn't use a large ISP
    because he doesn't like them. If you were running a real ISP people would
    be leaving in droves.
     
    Mainlander, Nov 21, 2003
    #11
  12. Lennier

    Enkidu Guest

    Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

    On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:29:10 +1300, Mainlander <*@*.*> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > says...
    >> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:57:34 +1300, Lennier
    >> <> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >Wave.co.nz is rejecting email being sent by Xtra customers who do not use
    >> >Xtra's SMTP server.
    >> >

    >> Why don't they just reject all email from Xtra like I do.

    >
    > Another fool who tries to tell people they shouldn't use a large ISP
    > because he doesn't like them. If you were running a real ISP people
    > would be leaving in droves.
    >

    I have no problem with people using Xtra. I just won't receive any
    viruses and SPAM from them.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign
    that the conspiracy is working.
     
    Enkidu, Nov 22, 2003
    #12
  13. Lennier

    Mainlander Guest

    Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

    In article <>,
    says...
    > On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:29:10 +1300, Mainlander <*@*.*> wrote:
    >
    > >In article <>,
    > > says...
    > >> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:57:34 +1300, Lennier
    > >> <> wrote:
    > >> >
    > >> >Wave.co.nz is rejecting email being sent by Xtra customers who do not use
    > >> >Xtra's SMTP server.
    > >> >
    > >> Why don't they just reject all email from Xtra like I do.

    > >
    > > Another fool who tries to tell people they shouldn't use a large ISP
    > > because he doesn't like them. If you were running a real ISP people
    > > would be leaving in droves.
    > >

    > I have no problem with people using Xtra. I just won't receive any
    > viruses and SPAM from them.


    What about email?
     
    Mainlander, Nov 22, 2003
    #13
  14. Lennier

    Enkidu Guest

    Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

    On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:33:49 +1300, Mainlander <*@*.*> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > says...
    >> On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:29:10 +1300, Mainlander <*@*.*> wrote:
    >>
    >> >In article <>,
    >> > says...
    >> >> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:57:34 +1300, Lennier
    >> >> <> wrote:
    >> >> >
    >> >> >Wave.co.nz is rejecting email being sent by Xtra customers who do not use
    >> >> >Xtra's SMTP server.
    >> >> >
    >> >> Why don't they just reject all email from Xtra like I do.
    >> >
    >> > Another fool who tries to tell people they shouldn't use a large ISP
    >> > because he doesn't like them. If you were running a real ISP people
    >> > would be leaving in droves.
    >> >

    >> I have no problem with people using Xtra. I just won't receive any
    >> viruses and SPAM from them.

    >
    >What about email?


    What about email? All I've ever had from them is SPAM and viruses.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign
    that the conspiracy is working.
     
    Enkidu, Nov 22, 2003
    #14
  15. Lennier

    Mainlander Guest

    Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

    In article <>,
    says...
    > On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:33:49 +1300, Mainlander <*@*.*> wrote:
    >
    > >In article <>,
    > > says...
    > >> On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:29:10 +1300, Mainlander <*@*.*> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >In article <>,
    > >> > says...
    > >> >> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:57:34 +1300, Lennier
    > >> >> <> wrote:
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >Wave.co.nz is rejecting email being sent by Xtra customers who do not use
    > >> >> >Xtra's SMTP server.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> Why don't they just reject all email from Xtra like I do.
    > >> >
    > >> > Another fool who tries to tell people they shouldn't use a large ISP
    > >> > because he doesn't like them. If you were running a real ISP people
    > >> > would be leaving in droves.
    > >> >
    > >> I have no problem with people using Xtra. I just won't receive any
    > >> viruses and SPAM from them.

    > >
    > >What about email?

    >
    > What about email? All I've ever had from them is SPAM and viruses.


    You telling me no one you know uses Xtra? I have lots of friends using
    it.
     
    Mainlander, Nov 23, 2003
    #15
  16. Lennier

    Shannon Guest

    On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:57:34 +1300, Lennier
    <> wrote:

    >Wave.co.nz is rejecting email being sent by Xtra customers who do not use
    >Xtra's SMTP server.
    >
    >Lennier


    Amazing, there's an ISP in NZ that actually has clue about things!
    Yay! Go Wave!

    Wave.co.nz wouldn't be the only company. It's very standard practice
    to block incoming mail being sent directly from dial-up IP space.

    My company does - using data from SORBS. <www.dnsbl.au.sorbs.net>

    (Generally any incoming mail from dial-up IP space is from a trojaned
    home machine, open relay or open proxy. In other words, it's almost
    invarably spam - we've had one exception so far, and that was fixed.
    Thousands of spam stopped though.)

    You have no reason whatsoever to be sending email not via your ISP's
    mail server unless you have a static IP and an agreement with your ISP
    to run a server.

    Get a commercial smarthost service if you need to. (There are some -
    such as no-ip.com )

    (Now, if only Xtra's mail servers would block multilevel open relay -
    ie would block email that's being open-relayed through their client's
    systems.)
     
    Shannon, Nov 27, 2003
    #16
  17. Lennier

    Shannon Guest

    Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

    On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:54:09 +0100, Kurt Häusler <>
    wrote:

    >
    >


    >I think you miss his point. Hes talking about the SMTP server RECIEVING
    >the email (wave.co.nz). Hes using his own SMTP server to send it.
    >
    >The practice that wave are guilty of, is refusing connections from what
    >it thinks are dialup IP addresses. Whether they have sent spam or not.
    >
    >The negative consequence of this, is that it moves the internet slowly
    >towards a situation where only big corporations are trusted, and the
    >individual user is not. Further centralising and commercialising the net.


    Wrong, no, it'll move to an Internet where only systems with Static
    IP's are trusted.

    And I don't trust anyone with a dynamic IP to send email.
     
    Shannon, Nov 27, 2003
    #17
  18. Lennier

    Lennier Guest

    On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:00:37 +1300, Shannon wrote:

    > It's very standard practice
    > to block incoming mail being sent directly from dial-up IP space.


    This is not true.

    I use my own mta - Postfix - to send my emails without recourse to Xtra's
    servers.

    Only two organisations cause me difficulties - one of them is an ISP, and
    the other is a CRI.

    For those two addresses I use Xtra's server.


    Lennier
     
    Lennier, Nov 27, 2003
    #18
  19. Lennier

    Enkidu Guest

    On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:35:40 +1300, Lennier
    <> wrote:

    >On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:00:37 +1300, Shannon wrote:
    >
    >> It's very standard practice
    >> to block incoming mail being sent directly from dial-up IP space.

    >
    >This is not true.
    >
    >I use my own mta - Postfix - to send my emails without recourse to Xtra's
    >servers.
    >
    >Only two organisations cause me difficulties - one of them is an ISP, and
    >the other is a CRI.
    >
    >For those two addresses I use Xtra's server.
    >

    This is true. You must be just lucky. Even one of the biggest SPAMmers
    out there, RoadRunner, will refuse email from hosts that do not
    reverse resolve. So will AOL. Not many is NZ do at present, (actually
    none that I know of) but it *is* spreading.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign
    that the conspiracy is working.
     
    Enkidu, Nov 27, 2003
    #19
  20. Lennier

    Mainlander Guest

    Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

    In article <pan.2003.11.27.12.35.34.407693@TRACKER>,
    lid says...
    > On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:00:37 +1300, Shannon wrote:
    >
    > > It's very standard practice
    > > to block incoming mail being sent directly from dial-up IP space.

    >
    > This is not true.
    >
    > I use my own mta - Postfix - to send my emails without recourse to Xtra's
    > servers.
    >
    > Only two organisations cause me difficulties - one of them is an ISP, and
    > the other is a CRI.
    >
    > For those two addresses I use Xtra's server.


    Why are you still on Xtra if you despise them so much?
     
    Mainlander, Nov 27, 2003
    #20
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