85mm 1.8 or 50mm 1.4

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Mac, Nov 9, 2005.

  1. Mac

    Mac Guest

    For discussion:

    I would like to buy a prime for shooting indoor sports (Volleyball in particular)portraiture and general purpose use. I was having a discussion with a salesman today and he recommended the canon 50mm 1.4. After I left I was thinking, you can't always get closer to the court but you can almost always back away. Considering this lens with a 1.6 factor, doesn't it make more sense to go with the 85?

    Also, any opinions on the necessity of hoods indoors?

    Thanks, and before any flaming takes place, I have done much research via Google, in groups and on various forums about these and other fine lenses. :)

    Thanks in advance.

    Mike


    --
    remove xyz xyz. you know the drill...
    Mac, Nov 9, 2005
    #1
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  2. Mac

    GTO Guest

    For indoor sports, get a 70-200 lens with VR (or whatever Canon calls their version). Forget about the two fixed focal lenses you mentioned. It's sport, things move. The 85 and 50 are useful for portrait and low-light photography but not for indoor sport.

    Gregor
    "Mac" <> wrote in message news:p...
    For discussion:

    I would like to buy a prime for shooting indoor sports (Volleyball in particular)portraiture and general purpose use. I was having a discussion with a salesman today and he recommended the canon 50mm 1.4. After I left I was thinking, you can't always get closer to the court but you can almost always back away. Considering this lens with a 1.6 factor, doesn't it make more sense to go with the 85?

    Also, any opinions on the necessity of hoods indoors?

    Thanks, and before any flaming takes place, I have done much research via Google, in groups and on various forums about these and other fine lenses. :)

    Thanks in advance.

    Mike


    --
    remove xyz xyz. you know the drill...
    GTO, Nov 9, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Mac

    cjcampbell Guest

    Never use a fixed focus lens for indoor sports. You cannot always move
    further away -- not without annoying a bunch of other people anyway.

    If you want a fixed focus normal lens, go with the 50mm. It is a much
    more useful general purpose lens than the 85.
    cjcampbell, Nov 9, 2005
    #3
  4. "Mac" <> writes:

    > For discussion:
    >
    > I would like to buy a prime for shooting indoor sports (Volleyball
    > in particular)portraiture and general purpose use. I was having a
    > discussion with a salesman today and he recommended the canon 50mm
    > 1.4. After I left I was thinking, you can't always get closer to
    > the court but you can almost always back away. Considering this
    > lens with a 1.6 factor, doesn't it make more sense to go with the
    > 85?


    I dunno, I haven't shot volleyball. Backing away does reduce your
    angle possibilities -- lying on the floor doesn't get you *that* low a
    shot from far away.

    > Also, any opinions on the necessity of hoods indoors?


    It depends on how many bright light sources will be near the edges
    (outside) of the frame, really. I wouldn't think there'd be that many
    unless you were down on the floor shooting up, in a gym. And on how
    flare-prone the lens is, of course; moderate focal-length primes tend
    to be not that flare prone.
    --
    David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
    RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
    Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
    Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
    David Dyer-Bennet, Nov 9, 2005
    #4
  5. Mac

    John Fryatt Guest

    Mac wrote:

    > Also, any opinions on the necessity of hoods indoors?


    My feeling is that you should always use a hood, unless there was some
    significant reason not to do so. Can't do any harm, only help.

    John
    John Fryatt, Nov 9, 2005
    #5
  6. Mac

    [BnH] Guest

    Depends on what you are trying to shoot.
    For basketball you can have under the ring shots and players expression
    before a throw using a 85mm lens on a Nikon DSLR body .

    A friend of mine primarily uses a Nikkor 85/1.4D for his basketball shots
    and when compared to me when using a 80-200 range ...
    he got much better shots as he concentrate more on his shots [rather than me
    trying to catch every moment that happens in the opponent key hole area :D ]

    For Volleyball, I think you might want to use the 85mm too as you can get
    better shots sitting near the near there.

    =bob=


    "Mac" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    For discussion:

    I would like to buy a prime for shooting indoor sports (Volleyball in
    particular)portraiture and general purpose use. I was having a discussion
    with a salesman today and he recommended the canon 50mm 1.4. After I left I
    was thinking, you can't always get closer to the court but you can almost
    always back away. Considering this lens with a 1.6 factor, doesn't it make
    more sense to go with the 85?
    [BnH], Nov 9, 2005
    #6
  7. Mac

    Mike Mc Guest

    Thank you for your responses. I guess my third but not last option is the 70-200 L 2.8 IS. But can I just say OH MY GOD about the price!!!!!

    More decisions. Like what to sell to afford that lens...

    Thanks again.

    Mike

    --
    --
    Michael C. McDonnell

    "Mac" <> wrote in message news:p...
    For discussion:

    I would like to buy a prime for shooting indoor sports (Volleyball in particular)portraiture and general purpose use. I was having a discussion with a salesman today and he recommended the canon 50mm 1.4. After I left I was thinking, you can't always get closer to the court but you can almost always back away. Considering this lens with a 1.6 factor, doesn't it make more sense to go with the 85?

    Also, any opinions on the necessity of hoods indoors?

    Thanks, and before any flaming takes place, I have done much research via Google, in groups and on various forums about these and other fine lenses. :)

    Thanks in advance.

    Mike


    --
    remove xyz xyz. you know the drill...
    Mike Mc, Nov 9, 2005
    #7
  8. Mac

    This old Bob Guest

    If you are going to shoot at 1.4 not too much is going to be in focus. Speed
    is great, but is it usable?


    "Mac" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    For discussion:

    I would like to buy a prime for shooting indoor sports (Volleyball in
    particular)portraiture and general purpose use. I was having a discussion
    with a salesman today and he recommended the canon 50mm 1.4. After I left I
    was thinking, you can't always get closer to the court but you can almost
    always back away. Considering this lens with a 1.6 factor, doesn't it make
    more sense to go with the 85?

    Also, any opinions on the necessity of hoods indoors?

    Thanks, and before any flaming takes place, I have done much research via
    Google, in groups and on various forums about these and other fine lenses.
    :)

    Thanks in advance.

    Mike


    --
    remove xyz xyz. you know the drill...
    This old Bob, Nov 9, 2005
    #8
  9. Mac

    This old Bob Guest

    Forget the IS. You will not use it for Volleyball.

    Frankly I would get the 70-200 f/4. With a 20D you can shoot ISO 3200 to
    increase the shutter speed.



    "Mike Mc" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    Thank you for your responses. I guess my third but not last option is the
    70-200 L 2.8 IS. But can I just say OH MY GOD about the price!!!!!

    More decisions. Like what to sell to afford that lens...

    Thanks again.

    Mike

    --
    --
    Michael C. McDonnell

    "Mac" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    For discussion:

    I would like to buy a prime for shooting indoor sports (Volleyball in
    particular)portraiture and general purpose use. I was having a discussion
    with a salesman today and he recommended the canon 50mm 1.4. After I left I
    was thinking, you can't always get closer to the court but you can almost
    always back away. Considering this lens with a 1.6 factor, doesn't it make
    more sense to go with the 85?

    Also, any opinions on the necessity of hoods indoors?

    Thanks, and before any flaming takes place, I have done much research via
    Google, in groups and on various forums about these and other fine lenses.
    :)

    Thanks in advance.

    Mike


    --
    remove xyz xyz. you know the drill...
    This old Bob, Nov 9, 2005
    #9
  10. Mac

    Nick Fotis Guest

    This old Bob wrote:

    > Forget the IS. You will not use it for Volleyball.
    >
    > Frankly I would get the 70-200 f/4. With a 20D you can shoot ISO 3200 to
    > increase the shutter speed.


    Hm, there are some options since you said 'volleyball' (I made some shots in
    Athens Olympics from the spectator seats with my 70-200/2.8L IS and the
    1.4x converter).
    If you're shooting from the spectator seats, nothing beats a 200mm lens (or
    a 70-200), in my opinion. That is, if you want to concentrate on particular
    players.

    From Canon:
    - 200mm/2.8: very nice, sharp and fixed composition
    - 70-200/4L: very sharp and easy to handhold, rather OK pricewise
    - 70-200/2.8L: excellent optically, hard to come by (out of production)
    - 70-200/2.8L IS: nearly excellent, some tendency to flare if you get
    headlights toward your camera, pricey

    From Sigma:
    - 70-200/2.8 EX: Very nice lens, just a bit pricier than Canon's 70-200/4L,
    but one stop brighter (and heavier).
    - 120-300/2.8 EX: Very nice and fast (light-wise) lens, heavy and pricey
    (and don't know how fast it is in focusing).

    You have some selections, as I can see. Try to use at least a 70-200/2.8 and
    an 70-200/4 lens inside a gymnasium before you decide (probably the extra
    stop will be very useful!).

    N.Fotis
    Nick Fotis, Nov 10, 2005
    #10
  11. Mac

    Nick Fotis Guest

    Forgot to add this one:

    Sigma 100-300/4 EX: fast focus, good optically, but heavy (not as heavy as
    the 120-300/2.8, but still a monopod is necessary).

    N.Fotis
    Nick Fotis, Nov 10, 2005
    #11
  12. Mac

    Mike Mc Guest

    I'm curious... why forget the IS. Won't it buy me a couple of stops? (Canon says 3 stops, right?)

    Mike

    --
    --
    Michael C. McDonnell

    "This old Bob" <> wrote in message news:43727476$0$2746$...
    Forget the IS. You will not use it for Volleyball.

    Frankly I would get the 70-200 f/4. With a 20D you can shoot ISO 3200 to
    increase the shutter speed.



    "Mike Mc" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    Thank you for your responses. I guess my third but not last option is the
    70-200 L 2.8 IS. But can I just say OH MY GOD about the price!!!!!

    More decisions. Like what to sell to afford that lens...

    Thanks again.

    Mike

    --
    --
    Michael C. McDonnell

    "Mac" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    For discussion:

    I would like to buy a prime for shooting indoor sports (Volleyball in
    particular)portraiture and general purpose use. I was having a discussion
    with a salesman today and he recommended the canon 50mm 1.4. After I left I
    was thinking, you can't always get closer to the court but you can almost
    always back away. Considering this lens with a 1.6 factor, doesn't it make
    more sense to go with the 85?

    Also, any opinions on the necessity of hoods indoors?

    Thanks, and before any flaming takes place, I have done much research via
    Google, in groups and on various forums about these and other fine lenses.
    :)

    Thanks in advance.

    Mike


    --
    remove xyz xyz. you know the drill...
    Mike Mc, Nov 10, 2005
    #12
  13. On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 23:31:41 -0500, Mac wrote:

    > I would like to buy a prime for shooting indoor sports (Volleyball in
    > particular)portraiture and general purpose use. I was having a discussion
    > with a salesman today and he recommended the canon 50mm 1.4. After I left
    > I was thinking, you can't always get closer to the court but you can
    > almost always back away. Considering this lens with a 1.6 factor, doesn't
    > it make more sense to go with the 85?
    >
    > Also, any opinions on the necessity of hoods indoors?


    Which lens would be optimum, if all you are going to get is one lens,
    really depends on how close you can get to the action. If you can get
    close to the out-of-bounds line, at play level, then go with the 50. If
    you have to shoot from the stands, get the 85, which from spectator-land
    would be more of a "normal" than a tele. If you want to get "in"
    the action from the stands, a 200 or 300 wouldn't be too long.

    The best way to determine what you'll need is to rent or borrow the lenses
    in question and run tests at a vollyball match. Or you could test a zoom
    with a big range and see which focal length(s) works best, then get the
    corresponding fixed lens.

    Stefan
    Stefan Patric, Nov 10, 2005
    #13
  14. Mac

    Bob Patton Guest

    If the volleyball players are moving the IS is not useful.
    IS is only good for alleviating camera shake when using a somewhat slow
    shutter speed. No good for moving subjects unless you want them to be
    blurred.

    --
    Bob Patton


    "Mike Mc" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    I'm curious... why forget the IS. Won't it buy me a couple of stops?
    (Canon says 3 stops, right?)

    Mike

    --
    --
    Michael C. McDonnell

    "This old Bob" <> wrote in message
    news:43727476$0$2746$...
    Forget the IS. You will not use it for Volleyball.

    Frankly I would get the 70-200 f/4. With a 20D you can shoot ISO 3200 to
    increase the shutter speed.



    "Mike Mc" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    Thank you for your responses. I guess my third but not last option is the
    70-200 L 2.8 IS. But can I just say OH MY GOD about the price!!!!!

    More decisions. Like what to sell to afford that lens...

    Thanks again.

    Mike

    --
    --
    Michael C. McDonnell

    "Mac" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    For discussion:

    I would like to buy a prime for shooting indoor sports (Volleyball in
    particular)portraiture and general purpose use. I was having a discussion
    with a salesman today and he recommended the canon 50mm 1.4. After I left I
    was thinking, you can't always get closer to the court but you can almost
    always back away. Considering this lens with a 1.6 factor, doesn't it make
    more sense to go with the 85?

    Also, any opinions on the necessity of hoods indoors?

    Thanks, and before any flaming takes place, I have done much research via
    Google, in groups and on various forums about these and other fine lenses.
    :)

    Thanks in advance.

    Mike


    --
    remove xyz xyz. you know the drill...
    Bob Patton, Nov 10, 2005
    #14
  15. In article <dku3b8$2sb3$> writes:
    $- 70-200/2.8L: excellent optically, hard to come by (out of production)

    Anyone will agree with the first bit. The second bit is not in
    agreement with Canon's brochures or Web site, which still list it as
    a current product, and it's part of Canon U.S.A.'s current rebate
    promotion.
    --
    Stephen M. Dunn <>
    >>>----------------> http://www.stevedunn.ca/ <----------------<<<

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Say hi to my cat -- http://www.stevedunn.ca/photos/toby/
    Stephen M. Dunn, Nov 10, 2005
    #15
  16. Mac

    Frank ess Guest

    Stephen M. Dunn wrote:
    > In article <dku3b8$2sb3$>
    > writes: $- 70-200/2.8L: excellent optically, hard to come by (out of
    > production)
    >
    > Anyone will agree with the first bit. The second bit is not in
    > agreement with Canon's brochures or Web site, which still list it as
    > a current product, and it's part of Canon U.S.A.'s current rebate
    > promotion.



    He may have intende "80-200", which could correspond...
    Frank ess, Nov 10, 2005
    #16
  17. Mac

    This old Bob Guest

    You only use IS for movnig subjects when you are panning, i.e. a car or
    subject running past your position. IS on that lens has two modes: Mode 1 is
    designed for subject not moving. Mode 2 is designed for panning. Niether
    lends itself well to volleyball unless you happen to catch a subject running
    across court for the ball and you the subject to be sharp and a blurred
    background, then you could use mode 2.

    "Mike Mc" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    I'm curious... why forget the IS. Won't it buy me a couple of stops?
    (Canon says 3 stops, right?)

    Mike

    --
    --
    Michael C. McDonnell

    "This old Bob" <> wrote in message
    news:43727476$0$2746$...
    Forget the IS. You will not use it for Volleyball.

    Frankly I would get the 70-200 f/4. With a 20D you can shoot ISO 3200 to
    increase the shutter speed.



    "Mike Mc" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    Thank you for your responses. I guess my third but not last option is the
    70-200 L 2.8 IS. But can I just say OH MY GOD about the price!!!!!

    More decisions. Like what to sell to afford that lens...

    Thanks again.

    Mike

    --
    --
    Michael C. McDonnell

    "Mac" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    For discussion:

    I would like to buy a prime for shooting indoor sports (Volleyball in
    particular)portraiture and general purpose use. I was having a discussion
    with a salesman today and he recommended the canon 50mm 1.4. After I left I
    was thinking, you can't always get closer to the court but you can almost
    always back away. Considering this lens with a 1.6 factor, doesn't it make
    more sense to go with the 85?

    Also, any opinions on the necessity of hoods indoors?

    Thanks, and before any flaming takes place, I have done much research via
    Google, in groups and on various forums about these and other fine lenses.
    :)

    Thanks in advance.

    Mike


    --
    remove xyz xyz. you know the drill...
    This old Bob, Nov 10, 2005
    #17
  18. Mac

    Tim Hobbs Guest

    On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 23:31:41 -0500, "Mac"
    <> wrote:

    >For discussion:
    >
    >I would like to buy a prime for shooting indoor sports (Volleyball in particular)portraiture and general purpose use. I was having a discussion with a salesman today and he recommended the canon 50mm 1.4. After I left I was thinking, you can't always get closer to the court but you can almost always back away. Considering this lens with a 1.6 factor, doesn't it make more sense to go with the 85?
    >
    >Also, any opinions on the necessity of hoods indoors?
    >
    >Thanks, and before any flaming takes place, I have done much research via Google, in groups and on various forums about these and other fine lenses. :)
    >
    >Thanks in advance.
    >
    >Mike


    I doubt you'll ever shoot as wide as f1.4 - too little depth of field.
    That being so, you'll do almost as well with the f1.8, which is so
    cheap and good it's a no brainer, regardless of what else you have in
    your bag.

    I broke mine and replaced it with a 1.4, but I don't think I've ever
    shot wide open. f2 at a recent powerlifting event was as wide as I
    wanted to go.

    And all the praise of the 70-200 f2.8 is justified, but in many ways
    prime lenses are easier to shoot with - one less thing to think about
    and get wrong. And the 50mm f1.8 new is about a tenth of the price
    the 70-200 was second hand.

    --

    Tim Hobbs

    '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
    '03 Volvo V70
    Tim Hobbs, Nov 10, 2005
    #18
  19. Mac

    Nick Fotis Guest

    Frank ess wrote:

    > He may have intende "80-200", which could correspond...


    I thought that the 70-200/2.8L has stopped being in production after the
    introduction of the 70-200/2.8L IS.
    I would be glad to be corrected. I have no experience with the original
    (black!) 80-200/2.8L, though I have seen someone who uses it...

    N.F.
    Nick Fotis, Nov 11, 2005
    #19
  20. In article <dl0qef$1ofa$> writes:
    $I thought that the 70-200/2.8L has stopped being in production after the
    $introduction of the 70-200/2.8L IS.

    Nope; they're both still current, probably mostly because there's a
    big price difference (several hundred dollars) between them.
    Eventually I wouldn't be surprised to see the non-IS lens go away, but
    it hasn't happened yet, just like the non-IS 300/4 stuck around for
    several years after the introduction of the 300/4 IS.
    --
    Stephen M. Dunn <>
    >>>----------------> http://www.stevedunn.ca/ <----------------<<<

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Say hi to my cat -- http://www.stevedunn.ca/photos/toby/
    Stephen M. Dunn, Nov 11, 2005
    #20
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