8 Gbytes using 32 bit Vista

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by miso@sushi.com, Dec 27, 2008.

  1. Guest

    I've been informed that 32 bit Vista can see more than 4Gbytes. That
    is, if you have 8Gbtes in the system, 32 bit Vista can allocate ram
    per process in 4Gbyte chunks, using all 8 GBytes should there be
    enough processes. Can one of you gurus elaborate on this?
    , Dec 27, 2008
    #1
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  2. You need Vista 64 to use any more than 4GB of ram, and depending on video
    cards and other hardware in the system you would need Vista 64 to even use
    4GB of ram. If your hardware is recent enough to be considering 8GB of ram
    then the drivers are available and stable so just go with 64bit.

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I've been informed that 32 bit Vista can see more than 4Gbytes. That
    > is, if you have 8Gbtes in the system, 32 bit Vista can allocate ram
    > per process in 4Gbyte chunks, using all 8 GBytes should there be
    > enough processes. Can one of you gurus elaborate on this?
    Robert McMillan, Dec 27, 2008
    #2
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  3. Jane C Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I've been informed that 32 bit Vista can see more than 4Gbytes. That
    > is, if you have 8Gbtes in the system, 32 bit Vista can allocate ram
    > per process in 4Gbyte chunks, using all 8 GBytes should there be
    > enough processes. Can one of you gurus elaborate on this?




    While Vista x86 can *see* whatever amount of RAM you have, it can still only
    *use* 4GB, less the amount for onboard hardware, so it will only use between
    2.7GB and 3.6GB.

    --
    Jane, not plain ;) 64 bit enabled :)
    Batteries not included. Braincell on vacation ;-)
    MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
    Jane C, Dec 27, 2008
    #3
  4. Guest

    On Dec 26, 8:21 pm, "Jane C" <> wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    > > I've been informed that 32 bit Vista can see more than 4Gbytes. That
    > > is, if you have 8Gbtes in the system, 32 bit Vista can allocate ram
    > > per process in 4Gbyte chunks, using all 8 GBytes should there be
    > > enough processes.  Can one of you gurus elaborate on this?

    >
    > While Vista x86 can *see* whatever amount of RAM you have, it can still only
    > *use* 4GB, less the amount for onboard hardware, so it will only use between
    > 2.7GB and 3.6GB.
    >
    > --
    > Jane, not plain ;) 64 bit enabled :)
    > Batteries not included.  Braincell on vacation ;-)
    > MVP - Windows Desktop Experience


    Well, that was my thinking. However, this guy is pretty sharp, so are
    you sure there is no way for 32bit vista to use the "upper" ram? Does
    the PAE allow the upper ram to be used? [I run x64, so I have no first
    hand knowledge of any version of vista.]
    , Dec 27, 2008
    #4
  5. Let's be completely clear. NO memory past 4GB is seen by Vista 32-bit. If
    you want "official" confirmation, see:

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_vista


    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    On Dec 26, 8:21 pm, "Jane C" <> wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    > > I've been informed that 32 bit Vista can see more than 4Gbytes. That
    > > is, if you have 8Gbtes in the system, 32 bit Vista can allocate ram
    > > per process in 4Gbyte chunks, using all 8 GBytes should there be
    > > enough processes. Can one of you gurus elaborate on this?

    >
    > While Vista x86 can *see* whatever amount of RAM you have, it can still
    > only
    > *use* 4GB, less the amount for onboard hardware, so it will only use
    > between
    > 2.7GB and 3.6GB.
    >
    > --
    > Jane, not plain ;) 64 bit enabled :)
    > Batteries not included. Braincell on vacation ;-)
    > MVP - Windows Desktop Experience


    Well, that was my thinking. However, this guy is pretty sharp, so are
    you sure there is no way for 32bit vista to use the "upper" ram? Does
    the PAE allow the upper ram to be used? [I run x64, so I have no first
    hand knowledge of any version of vista.]
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Dec 27, 2008
    #5
  6. Bo Persson Guest

    Bo Persson, Dec 27, 2008
    #6
  7. Bo Persson wrote:

    > Charlie Russel - MVP wrote:
    >
    >>Let's be completely clear. NO memory past 4GB is seen by Vista
    >>32-bit. If you want "official" confirmation, see:
    >>
    >>http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_vista
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    > And this is of course inconsistent with the information on this page.
    >
    > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366796(VS.85).aspx


    Not really. It is confusing but when you read and decipher the article
    correctly it doesn't say that 32-bit workstation operating systems can
    access more than 4GB of RAM, it does say that they support PAE but it
    isn't for large memory support.

    Note the following excerpts:

    "PAE is supported by 32-bit Windows *Server* systems to enable access to
    up to 128 GB of physical memory."

    Please note that Vista is NOT a Server system.

    Then the following information is given:

    "PAE also enables several advanced system and processor features,
    including hardware-enabled Data Execution Prevention (DEP)..."

    32-bit Vista and XP both support PAE for DEP but neither of them support
    the use of PAE for large memory support, they are not server systems.
    While the article in question is a bit confusing, it is technically
    correct and nowhere does it say that 32-bit Vista can access more than
    4GB of RAM, only uses PAE for Data Execution Prevention.

    John
    John John (MVP), Dec 27, 2008
    #7
  8. Read more carefully, Bo. It is quite consistent, though confusing. But
    regardless of PAE or not, the limitation is an OS limitation on the amount
    of memory that it will allow for use. (So, for example, see the limit on
    Vista Home Basic.)

    It's really straightforward. If you want to use >4GB on a client Windows
    operating system, you must run 64-bit.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

    "Bo Persson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Charlie Russel - MVP wrote:
    >> Let's be completely clear. NO memory past 4GB is seen by Vista
    >> 32-bit. If you want "official" confirmation, see:
    >>
    >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_vista
    >>

    >
    >
    > And this is of course inconsistent with the information on this page.
    >
    > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366796(VS.85).aspx
    >
    >
    > :)
    >
    >
    > Bo Persson
    >
    >
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Dec 27, 2008
    #8
  9. Guest

    On Dec 26, 11:02 pm, "Charlie Russel - MVP"
    <> wrote:
    > Let's be completely clear. NO memory past 4GB is seen by Vista 32-bit. If
    > you want "official" confirmation, see:
    >
    > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx#physical_memory...
    >
    > --
    > Charlie.http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
    >
    > <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    > On Dec 26, 8:21 pm, "Jane C" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > <> wrote in message

    >
    > >news:...

    >
    > > > I've been informed that 32 bit Vista can see more than 4Gbytes. That
    > > > is, if you have 8Gbtes in the system, 32 bit Vista can allocate ram
    > > > per process in 4Gbyte chunks, using all 8 GBytes should there be
    > > > enough processes. Can one of you gurus elaborate on this?

    >
    > > While Vista x86 can *see* whatever amount of RAM you have, it can still
    > > only
    > > *use* 4GB, less the amount for onboard hardware, so it will only use
    > > between
    > > 2.7GB and 3.6GB.

    >
    > > --
    > > Jane, not plain ;) 64 bit enabled :)
    > > Batteries not included. Braincell on vacation ;-)
    > > MVP - Windows Desktop Experience

    >
    > Well, that was my thinking. However, this guy is pretty sharp, so are
    > you sure there is no way for 32bit vista to use the "upper" ram? Does
    > the PAE allow the upper ram to be used? [I run x64, so I have no first
    > hand knowledge of any version of vista.]


    <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/
    aa366778.aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_vista>
    Thanks. That was the page I was looking for.. So it may be possible
    to load the graphics card RAM above 4G, but that's about it.
    , Dec 27, 2008
    #9
  10. How do you figure you can load video memory above 4GB?

    wrote:
    >
    > <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/
    > aa366778.aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_vista>
    > Thanks. That was the page I was looking for.. So it may be possible
    > to load the graphics card RAM above 4G, but that's about it.
    >
    Bobby Johnson, Dec 27, 2008
    #10
  11. Guest

    On Dec 27, 10:30 am, Bobby Johnson <> wrote:
    > How do you figure you can load video memory above 4GB?
    >
    > wrote:
    >
    > > <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/
    > > aa366778.aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_vista>
    > > Thanks. That was the page I was looking for.. So it may be possible
    > > to  load the graphics card RAM above 4G, but that's about it.


    I don't know for a fact if RAM above 4G can be used under win32. It
    was more of a question. If the mobo needs RAM and the operations are
    handled by the mobo and not the OS, I suspect it would be possible for
    the RAM to be used. However, thinking about this, I suspect this would
    be a problem in AMD implementations, since the CPU has the memory
    controller on board.

    To make this perfectly clear, I don't run 32bit Vista. I run X64. I
    was just looking into some claims I read on "the internets" about 32
    bit Vista that I thought weren't true, but just wanted to verify.
    , Dec 28, 2008
    #11
  12. John Barnes Guest

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I've been informed that 32 bit Vista can see more than 4Gbytes. That
    > is, if you have 8Gbtes in the system, 32 bit Vista can allocate ram
    > per process in 4Gbyte chunks, using all 8 GBytes should there be
    > enough processes. Can one of you gurus elaborate on this?
    John Barnes, Dec 29, 2008
    #12
  13. While it's aimed more at game developers, this Gamasutra article details all
    the issues with 32-bit vs. 64-bit, PAE, AWE, etc.

    http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3602/sponsored_feature_ram_vram_and_.php

    In short: PAE was originally intended to solve the problem of supporting a
    full 4 GB of RAM with devices installed AND allow windowing access up to 128
    GB of RAM with a 32-bit OS. It turns out that this breaks so many existing
    drivers that it doesn't work except for controlled server hardware
    configurations. PAE 36-bit addressing modes are only supported by advanced
    editions of Windows Server, but as you note all versions of Windows x86 use
    PAE extensions to access the NX bit for DEP. And of course this is only for
    physical memory sizes. Virtual memory size is always limited to 2 GB (or 3
    GB with Large Address Aware applications and boot modes) for a 32-bit OS.

    --
    -Chuck Walbourn
    SDE, XNA Developer Connection

    This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warrenties, and confers no rights.
    Chuck Walbourn [MSFT], Dec 29, 2008
    #13
  14. Guest

    On Dec 29, 1:30 pm, "Chuck Walbourn [MSFT]"
    <> wrote:
    > While it's aimed more at game developers, this Gamasutra article details all
    > the issues with 32-bit vs. 64-bit, PAE, AWE, etc.
    >
    > http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3602/sponsored_feature_ram_vram...
    >
    > In short: PAE was originally intended to solve the problem of supporting a
    > full 4 GB of RAM with devices installed AND allow windowing access up to 128
    > GB of RAM with a 32-bit OS. It turns out that this breaks so many existing
    > drivers that it doesn't work except for controlled server hardware
    > configurations. PAE 36-bit addressing modes are only supported by advanced
    > editions of Windows Server, but as you note all versions of Windows x86 use
    > PAE extensions to access the NX bit for DEP. And of course this is only for
    > physical memory sizes. Virtual memory size is always limited to 2 GB (or 3
    > GB with Large Address Aware applications and boot modes) for a 32-bit OS.
    >
    > --
    > -Chuck Walbourn
    > SDE, XNA Developer Connection
    >
    > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warrenties, and confers no rights.


    That was worth reading. I've seen the video "aperture" in bios, but
    never bothered to investigate what it meant.
    , Dec 30, 2008
    #14
  15. Kerry Brown Guest

    Thanks. That's an excellent article.

    --
    Kerry Brown
    MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration
    http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/
    http://vistahelpca.blogspot.com/



    "Chuck Walbourn [MSFT]" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > While it's aimed more at game developers, this Gamasutra article details
    > all the issues with 32-bit vs. 64-bit, PAE, AWE, etc.
    >
    > http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3602/sponsored_feature_ram_vram_and_.php
    >
    > In short: PAE was originally intended to solve the problem of supporting a
    > full 4 GB of RAM with devices installed AND allow windowing access up to
    > 128 GB of RAM with a 32-bit OS. It turns out that this breaks so many
    > existing drivers that it doesn't work except for controlled server
    > hardware configurations. PAE 36-bit addressing modes are only supported by
    > advanced editions of Windows Server, but as you note all versions of
    > Windows x86 use PAE extensions to access the NX bit for DEP. And of course
    > this is only for physical memory sizes. Virtual memory size is always
    > limited to 2 GB (or 3 GB with Large Address Aware applications and boot
    > modes) for a 32-bit OS.
    >
    > --
    > -Chuck Walbourn
    > SDE, XNA Developer Connection
    >
    > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warrenties, and confers no
    > rights.
    Kerry Brown, Dec 30, 2008
    #15
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