70-291 - ouch

Discussion in 'MCSA' started by jkozlowski, Apr 26, 2007.

  1. jkozlowski

    jkozlowski Guest

    After breezing thru a+, network+, 70-271, 70-272, 70-270 and 70-290 (okay the
    290 was hard for me) I met my maker at the 70-291...

    I only got a 293?! gah! Did someone get the license plate of that whatever
    it was that just hit me?! I thought I had the concepts and theories down and
    going in knowing id have my work cut out for me... but wow...
     
    jkozlowski, Apr 26, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. jkozlowski

    Maincat Guest

    "jkozlowski" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > After breezing thru a+, network+, 70-271, 70-272, 70-270 and 70-290 (okay
    > the
    > 290 was hard for me) I met my maker at the 70-291...
    >
    > I only got a 293?! gah! Did someone get the license plate of that whatever
    > it was that just hit me?! I thought I had the concepts and theories down
    > and
    > going in knowing id have my work cut out for me... but wow...
    >
    >

    Look on the bright side - at least you beat the exam number.
     
    Maincat, Apr 26, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. jkozlowski

    catwalker63 Guest

    jkozlowski piffled away vaguely:

    > After breezing thru a+, network+, 70-271, 70-272, 70-270 and 70-290 (okay the
    > 290 was hard for me) I met my maker at the 70-291...
    >
    > I only got a 293?! gah! Did someone get the license plate of that whatever
    > it was that just hit me?! I thought I had the concepts and theories down and
    > going in knowing id have my work cut out for me... but wow...
    >

    They don't call it "The Beast" for nothin' you know.
    --

    Catwalker
    MCNGP #43
    www.mcngp.com
    "I have a gun. It's loaded. Shut up."
     
    catwalker63, Apr 26, 2007
    #3
  4. "jkozlowski" <> wrote in message
    news::

    > After breezing thru a+, network+, 70-271, 70-272, 70-270 and 70-290 (okay the
    > 290 was hard for me) I met my maker at the 70-291...
    >
    > I only got a 293?! gah! Did someone get the license plate of that whatever
    > it was that just hit me?! I thought I had the concepts and theories down and
    > going in knowing id have my work cut out for me... but wow...


    Just out of curiosity, what kind of hands-on experience do you have in
    "Implementing, Managing, and Maintaining a Microsoft Windows Server 2003
    Network Infrastructure?" Also, how did you study for this exam?
    --
    Michael D. Alligood, MCSA, MCDST
    The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    CertGuard - http://www.certguard.com
     
    Michael D. Alligood, Apr 26, 2007
    #4
  5. ugh i dont like hearing that report

    "jkozlowski" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > After breezing thru a+, network+, 70-271, 70-272, 70-270 and 70-290 (okay
    > the
    > 290 was hard for me) I met my maker at the 70-291...
    >
    > I only got a 293?! gah! Did someone get the license plate of that whatever
    > it was that just hit me?! I thought I had the concepts and theories down
    > and
    > going in knowing id have my work cut out for me... but wow...
    >
    >
     
    Keith Chilton, Apr 26, 2007
    #5
  6. jkozlowski

    jkozlowski Guest

    I pretty much have 0 experience at hands on in the windows 2003 server arena.
    (Im not a network engineer, just a computer tech for the last 20 years) I
    used some cbt videos. I skimmed over the Sybex 70-291 self assessment manual
    as well... I really thought I had the concepts down for this puppy. I guess I
    will go back to the good old MS-Press books, they do seem to be the best. I
    got a good cheap deal on that sybex book and thought what the heck...

    Im not going to give up but once I do pass this test, I believe i'm gonna
    stay at msca and not go for the mcse.

    "Michael D. Alligood" wrote:

    > "jkozlowski" <> wrote in message
    > news::
    >
    > > After breezing thru a+, network+, 70-271, 70-272, 70-270 and 70-290 (okay the
    > > 290 was hard for me) I met my maker at the 70-291...
    > >
    > > I only got a 293?! gah! Did someone get the license plate of that whatever
    > > it was that just hit me?! I thought I had the concepts and theories down and
    > > going in knowing id have my work cut out for me... but wow...

    >
    > Just out of curiosity, what kind of hands-on experience do you have in
    > "Implementing, Managing, and Maintaining a Microsoft Windows Server 2003
    > Network Infrastructure?" Also, how did you study for this exam?
    > --
    > Michael D. Alligood, MCSA, MCDST
    > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    > CertGuard - http://www.certguard.com
    >
    >
    >
     
    jkozlowski, Apr 27, 2007
    #6
  7. "jkozlowski" <> wrote in message
    news::

    > I pretty much have 0 experience at hands on in the windows 2003 server arena.
    > (Im not a network engineer, just a computer tech for the last 20 years)


    Here is the audience profile (recommended experience) for the MCSA
    certification:
    http://www.microsoft.com/learning/exams/70-291.mspx#ETB

    Here are the tested objectives for the 70-291 exam:
    http://www.microsoft.com/learning/exams/70-291.mspx#E6E

    My question is what in the world made you take this, or any of the
    MCSA/MCSE exams with ZERO hands-on experience?!? Please allow me to ask
    another question as well. What if you passed this exam? No wait, what if
    you passed the entire MCSA certification. With ZERO experience, wouldn't
    you think that your MCSA certificate was meaningless? I mean you would
    have obtained a System Administrator credential in a Windows 2003
    network environment without having laid on finger on the technology...

    What do you think this does for the MCSA/MCSE certification?

    --
    Michael D. Alligood, MCSA, MCDST
    The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    CertGuard - http://www.certguard.com
     
    Michael D. Alligood, Apr 27, 2007
    #7
  8. jkozlowski

    catwalker63 Guest

    jkozlowski piffled away vaguely:

    > I pretty much have 0 experience at hands on in the windows 2003 server arena.
    > (Im not a network engineer, just a computer tech for the last 20 years) I
    > used some cbt videos. I skimmed over the Sybex 70-291 self assessment manual
    > as well... I really thought I had the concepts down for this puppy. I guess I
    > will go back to the good old MS-Press books, they do seem to be the best. I
    > got a good cheap deal on that sybex book and thought what the heck...
    >
    > Im not going to give up but once I do pass this test, I believe i'm gonna
    > stay at msca and not go for the mcse.
    >

    While I'm not the biggest advocate for MS certs, I wouldn't base your
    decision to quit on this exam. It is by far the hardest for most people
    for many reasons.

    Many newer IT folks do not have experience with the range of alphabet
    soup being examined. This will require some practical experience but
    of all the exams, this one has had the most impact on my
    understanding. Get some equipment you can use or setup virtual servers
    and practice. You won't get it until you do it.

    Granted there are some useless in the real world technologies since
    using a Windows server as a router or a vpn solution is ludicrous,
    nevertheless you will learn universal concepts.

    I took the network infrastructure exam second after the server exam.
    Those two took me the longest. After that, I was passing the rest
    every 4-6 weeks.
    --

    Catwalker
    MCNGP #43
    www.mcngp.com
    "I have a gun. It's loaded. Shut up."
     
    catwalker63, Apr 27, 2007
    #8
  9. jkozlowski

    catwalker63 Guest

    Michael D. Alligood piffled away vaguely:

    > "jkozlowski" <> wrote in message
    > news::
    >
    >> I pretty much have 0 experience at hands on in the windows 2003 server arena.
    >> (Im not a network engineer, just a computer tech for the last 20 years)

    >
    > My question is what in the world made you take this, or any of the
    > MCSA/MCSE exams with ZERO hands-on experience?!? Please allow me to ask
    > another question as well. What if you passed this exam? No wait, what if
    > you passed the entire MCSA certification. With ZERO experience, wouldn't
    > you think that your MCSA certificate was meaningless? I mean you would
    > have obtained a System Administrator credential in a Windows 2003
    > network environment without having laid on finger on the technology...
    >
    > What do you think this does for the MCSA/MCSE certification?
    >

    And this is the crux of the problem. It is actually possible to obtain
    the cert with ZERO experience. The damage is done.
    --

    Catwalker
    MCNGP #43
    www.mcngp.com
    "I have a gun. It's loaded. Shut up."
     
    catwalker63, Apr 27, 2007
    #9
  10. Michael

    I second your comments towards this guy. Don't worry about it that much
    though. If he were to get hired by somebody for that certification, he would
    just as easily be seen as "replaceable due to a lack of knowledge".
    Employers want results and in a timely fashion. Somebody without the
    knowledge and experience to produce this will not do very well with most
    employers. Although at some he might be able to BS his way for awhile. All
    in all, I believe in the weed out theory and in the dynamic, fast-paced
    world we call the "business world".

    Nobody should go after a certification without having the experience. I know
    I'm not wasting my money on the CCNA because I know nothing about them.
    Furthermore, I would not feel very confident at an interview for a job
    requiring the CCNA. To me it's almost like, well, lying.

    Keith
     
    Keith Chilton, Apr 27, 2007
    #10
  11. "catwalker63" <> wrote in message
    news:eek::

    > Michael D. Alligood piffled away vaguely:
    >
    > > "jkozlowski" <> wrote in message
    > > news::
    > >
    > >> I pretty much have 0 experience at hands on in the windows 2003 server arena.
    > >> (Im not a network engineer, just a computer tech for the last 20 years)

    > >
    > > My question is what in the world made you take this, or any of the
    > > MCSA/MCSE exams with ZERO hands-on experience?!? Please allow me to ask
    > > another question as well. What if you passed this exam? No wait, what if
    > > you passed the entire MCSA certification. With ZERO experience, wouldn't
    > > you think that your MCSA certificate was meaningless? I mean you would
    > > have obtained a System Administrator credential in a Windows 2003
    > > network environment without having laid on finger on the technology...
    > >
    > > What do you think this does for the MCSA/MCSE certification?
    > >

    > And this is the crux of the problem. It is actually possible to obtain
    > the cert with ZERO experience. The damage is done.
    > --
    >
    > Catwalker
    > MCNGP #43
    > www.mcngp.com
    > "I have a gun. It's loaded. Shut up."


    <You are not coming to a sad realization. Accept or Deny?>
    --
    Michael D. Alligood, MCSA, MCDST
    The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    CertGuard - http://www.certguard.com
     
    Michael D. Alligood, Apr 27, 2007
    #11
  12. jkozlowski

    jkozlowski Guest

    Actually, I was just trying to better myself and shoot for something as a
    personal gain. I have a great job as a tech, I dont really have the need to
    get this cert but for only personal gain. I dont plan on running out and say
    look at me, I have mcsa hire me!

    Anyways, when I have zero experience in network engineering it was my
    opinion some others might have said I have a touch here and there. My company
    hired me without any certs actually (been there now 7 years) my last job I
    was there 15 years and the last job I created and designed a novell network
    from manual typewritters to fully computerized (myself). I had everything all
    set there and running smooth I got bored and looked for a new job, Found this
    great place that was a large Microsoft base place. I was actually shocked
    they hired me with no certs and more importantly no microsoft experience.
    They were just overwhelmed with my ability of what I accomplished with the pc
    side as well as the pbx (thats phone stuff) administration.

    Well anyways, 2 years ago a big cert craze went thru after we got a new
    director and everyone was to be certified, me being thier "Senior" level tech
    I had to have my a+, network+ and mcdst (all good certs for my job role). I
    thought wow I didnt have to study at all for my a+ or network+ and being thru
    a few rollouts with the company I really picked up on the microsoft world. I
    was with them from a 95 to 98 to xp phases, I played a major roll in the
    deployment of over 3200 machines world wide. (We have about 15 offices world
    wide), were i deployed and upgraded and even help setup the new offices. I
    did that so well they put me in the cisco realm of setting up the ip phones
    and work alot with the VoIP.

    Anyways... I guess when i say i have ZERO experience in being a network
    engineer, I was slightly off. But in my eyes I still have zero experience
    since I actually dont work in the dungeon of the engineering staff.

    "Michael D. Alligood" wrote:

    > "jkozlowski" <> wrote in message
    > news::
    >
    > > I pretty much have 0 experience at hands on in the windows 2003 server arena.
    > > (Im not a network engineer, just a computer tech for the last 20 years)

    >
    > Here is the audience profile (recommended experience) for the MCSA
    > certification:
    > http://www.microsoft.com/learning/exams/70-291.mspx#ETB
    >
    > Here are the tested objectives for the 70-291 exam:
    > http://www.microsoft.com/learning/exams/70-291.mspx#E6E
    >
    > My question is what in the world made you take this, or any of the
    > MCSA/MCSE exams with ZERO hands-on experience?!? Please allow me to ask
    > another question as well. What if you passed this exam? No wait, what if
    > you passed the entire MCSA certification. With ZERO experience, wouldn't
    > you think that your MCSA certificate was meaningless? I mean you would
    > have obtained a System Administrator credential in a Windows 2003
    > network environment without having laid on finger on the technology...
    >
    > What do you think this does for the MCSA/MCSE certification?
    >
    > --
    > Michael D. Alligood, MCSA, MCDST
    > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    > CertGuard - http://www.certguard.com
    >
    >
    >
     
    jkozlowski, Apr 27, 2007
    #12
  13. <snipped>
    >
    > Anyways... I guess when i say i have ZERO experience in being a network
    > engineer, I was slightly off. But in my eyes I still have zero experience
    > since I actually dont work in the dungeon of the engineering staff.
    >
    > "Michael D. Alligood" wrote:
    >
    > > "jkozlowski" <> wrote in message
    > > news::
    > >
    > > > I pretty much have 0 experience at hands on in the windows 2003 server arena.
    > > > (Im not a network engineer, just a computer tech for the last 20 years)

    > >
    > > Here is the audience profile (recommended experience) for the MCSA
    > > certification:
    > > http://www.microsoft.com/learning/exams/70-291.mspx#ETB
    > >
    > > Here are the tested objectives for the 70-291 exam:
    > > http://www.microsoft.com/learning/exams/70-291.mspx#E6E
    > >
    > > My question is what in the world made you take this, or any of the
    > > MCSA/MCSE exams with ZERO hands-on experience?!?
    > >
    > >
    > >

    You did amazing well with your A+ and Network+ because you had
    experience with the objectives. You failed the 70-291 because you did
    not have any experience with the objectives. There are Admins out there
    with experience and this exam gives them fits. Perhaps we can find you
    some exams that will display your experience more than the 70-291. With
    your experience in the desktop environment, have you considered taking
    the 70-270? Do you have any experience with Windows Vista as of yet? A
    few exams for it are live now.

    --
    Michael D. Alligood, MCSA, MCDST
    The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    CertGuard - http://www.certguard.com
     
    Michael D. Alligood, Apr 27, 2007
    #13
  14. jkozlowski

    jkozlowski Guest

    Actually, I was just trying to better myself and shoot for something as a
    personal gain. I have a great job as a tech, I dont really have the need to
    get this cert but for only personal gain. I dont plan on running out and say
    look at me, I have mcsa hire me!

    Anyways, when I have zero experience in network engineering it was my
    opinion some others might have said I have a touch here and there. My company
    hired me without any certs actually (been there now 7 years) my last job I
    was there 15 years and the last job I created and designed a novell network
    from manual typewritters to fully computerized (myself). I had everything all
    set there and running smooth I got bored and looked for a new job, Found this
    great place that was a large Microsoft base place. I was actually shocked
    they hired me with no certs and more importantly no microsoft experience.
    They were just overwhelmed with my ability of what I accomplished with the pc
    side as well as the pbx (thats phone stuff) administration.

    Well anyways, 2 years ago a big cert craze went thru after we got a new
    director and everyone was to be certified, me being thier "Senior" level tech
    I had to have my a+, network+ and mcdst (all good certs for my job role). I
    thought wow I didnt have to study at all for my a+ or network+ and being thru
    a few rollouts with the company I really picked up on the microsoft world. I
    was with them from a 95 to 98 to xp phases, I played a major roll in the
    deployment of over 3200 machines world wide. (We have about 15 offices world
    wide), were i deployed and upgraded and even help setup the new offices. I
    did that so well they put me in the cisco realm of setting up the ip phones
    and work alot with the VoIP.

    Anyways... I guess when i say i have ZERO experience in being a network
    engineer, I was slightly off. But in my eyes I still have zero experience
    since I actually dont work in the dungeon of the engineering staff.

    Currently our network consists of windows 2003 with a few 2000 boxes. I
    setup a few servers for the engineers but it wasnt anything to write home
    about, basically it was pop in more ram add a few more drives to the compaq
    server racks and used thier cd and click next, next, next a few times and a
    couple of reboots... again I say I have ZERO experience...

    Oddly enough, the supervisor of the network department actually asked if I
    was interested in working with them more often and I said, Im no where
    quailifed to be here, Im just enjoying going thru the basics with backup
    tapes and restores and baselining machines.....

    Again... to me... I have zero experience in Microsoft 2003 server network
    engineering....

    ;)



    "Michael D. Alligood" wrote:

    > "catwalker63" <> wrote in message
    > news:eek::
    >
    > > Michael D. Alligood piffled away vaguely:
    > >
    > > > "jkozlowski" <> wrote in message
    > > > news::
    > > >
    > > >> I pretty much have 0 experience at hands on in the windows 2003 server arena.
    > > >> (Im not a network engineer, just a computer tech for the last 20 years)
    > > >
    > > > My question is what in the world made you take this, or any of the
    > > > MCSA/MCSE exams with ZERO hands-on experience?!? Please allow me to ask
    > > > another question as well. What if you passed this exam? No wait, what if
    > > > you passed the entire MCSA certification. With ZERO experience, wouldn't
    > > > you think that your MCSA certificate was meaningless? I mean you would
    > > > have obtained a System Administrator credential in a Windows 2003
    > > > network environment without having laid on finger on the technology...
    > > >
    > > > What do you think this does for the MCSA/MCSE certification?
    > > >

    > > And this is the crux of the problem. It is actually possible to obtain
    > > the cert with ZERO experience. The damage is done.
    > > --
    > >
    > > Catwalker
    > > MCNGP #43
    > > www.mcngp.com
    > > "I have a gun. It's loaded. Shut up."

    >
    > <You are not coming to a sad realization. Accept or Deny?>
    > --
    > Michael D. Alligood, MCSA, MCDST
    > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    > CertGuard - http://www.certguard.com
    >
    >
    >
     
    jkozlowski, Apr 27, 2007
    #14
  15. jkozlowski

    jkozlowski Guest

    Actually yes... I passed my 70-270 with something in the 900s. I also passed
    my 70-290 with in the upper 700s (again that was very hard for me being that
    I dont have daily working with what our engineering staff works with) so for
    me getting a passing score I was excited. The 70-291 is the last of my series
    to get my msca2003 cert. I passed my 70-271 with an 899 and the 70-272 with a
    968.

    Going off those scores a+ (not studing at all just going and taking the test
    to get the ball rolling) and passing and then taking my network+ with just
    recapping the class materials I had (yes I went to network+ class, i know
    silly) but it really helped. I do like the cbt's and books but nothing gets
    much better then a well speaking instructor in my book.

    Breezing thru the msdst cert and looking at the msca track since 70-270 was
    similar to the 70-271, 70-272 but together, working with one of our engineers
    going over materials helped me get thru the 70-290 (granted my score wasnt
    overwhelming but a pass is a pass). The MSCA2003 was well withing my sights
    and I knew it was going to be rough for me but I really didnt expect that bad
    of a flop.

    Actually after I do complete this msca cert, I will focus my attension on
    vista (Im sure being a big Microsoft company, we will upgrade our 3,500
    clients to vista) I have Vista Ultimate and Office 2007 at home currently and
    starting to get a feel of what im going to expect.

    "Michael D. Alligood" wrote:

    > <snipped>
    > >
    > > Anyways... I guess when i say i have ZERO experience in being a network
    > > engineer, I was slightly off. But in my eyes I still have zero experience
    > > since I actually dont work in the dungeon of the engineering staff.
    > >
    > > "Michael D. Alligood" wrote:
    > >
    > > > "jkozlowski" <> wrote in message
    > > > news::
    > > >
    > > > > I pretty much have 0 experience at hands on in the windows 2003 server arena.
    > > > > (Im not a network engineer, just a computer tech for the last 20 years)
    > > >
    > > > Here is the audience profile (recommended experience) for the MCSA
    > > > certification:
    > > > http://www.microsoft.com/learning/exams/70-291.mspx#ETB
    > > >
    > > > Here are the tested objectives for the 70-291 exam:
    > > > http://www.microsoft.com/learning/exams/70-291.mspx#E6E
    > > >
    > > > My question is what in the world made you take this, or any of the
    > > > MCSA/MCSE exams with ZERO hands-on experience?!?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > You did amazing well with your A+ and Network+ because you had
    > experience with the objectives. You failed the 70-291 because you did
    > not have any experience with the objectives. There are Admins out there
    > with experience and this exam gives them fits. Perhaps we can find you
    > some exams that will display your experience more than the 70-291. With
    > your experience in the desktop environment, have you considered taking
    > the 70-270? Do you have any experience with Windows Vista as of yet? A
    > few exams for it are live now.
    >
    > --
    > Michael D. Alligood, MCSA, MCDST
    > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    > CertGuard - http://www.certguard.com
    >
    >
    >
     
    jkozlowski, Apr 27, 2007
    #15
  16. I'm rather confused!

    When you and others in this thread are griping about people needing hands-on
    experience, are you referring to experience in the workplace or practicing at
    home whilst studying?

    If it is the former, then we have a slight "chicken and egg" situation.
    Employers are hardly going to take even an entry-level admin on with ZERO
    QUALIFICATIONS.
    This may be me getting the wrong end of the stick (not the first time lol),
    but what it SEEMS like you are suggesting by your tone is that in your
    opinion it is better to have a job in admin BEFORE you study for it!! In
    which case, why bother wasting your money when you ALREADY have a job?

    If it was the latter (getting experience whilst studying on a home setup),
    then forgive my mistake.

    "Michael D. Alligood" wrote:

    > "jkozlowski" <> wrote in message
    > news::
    >
    > > I pretty much have 0 experience at hands on in the windows 2003 server arena.
    > > (Im not a network engineer, just a computer tech for the last 20 years)

    >
    > Here is the audience profile (recommended experience) for the MCSA
    > certification:
    > http://www.microsoft.com/learning/exams/70-291.mspx#ETB
    >
    > Here are the tested objectives for the 70-291 exam:
    > http://www.microsoft.com/learning/exams/70-291.mspx#E6E
    >
    > My question is what in the world made you take this, or any of the
    > MCSA/MCSE exams with ZERO hands-on experience?!? Please allow me to ask
    > another question as well. What if you passed this exam? No wait, what if
    > you passed the entire MCSA certification. With ZERO experience, wouldn't
    > you think that your MCSA certificate was meaningless? I mean you would
    > have obtained a System Administrator credential in a Windows 2003
    > network environment without having laid on finger on the technology...
    >
    > What do you think this does for the MCSA/MCSE certification?
    >
    > --
    > Michael D. Alligood, MCSA, MCDST
    > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    > CertGuard - http://www.certguard.com
    >
    >
    >
     
    Marc Livingstone, Apr 30, 2007
    #16
  17. jkozlowski

    catwalker63 Guest

    Marc Livingstone piffled away vaguely:

    > I'm rather confused!
    >
    > When you and others in this thread are griping about people needing hands-on
    > experience, are you referring to experience in the workplace or practicing at
    > home whilst studying?
    >
    > If it is the former, then we have a slight "chicken and egg" situation.
    > Employers are hardly going to take even an entry-level admin on with ZERO
    > QUALIFICATIONS.
    > This may be me getting the wrong end of the stick (not the first time lol),
    > but what it SEEMS like you are suggesting by your tone is that in your
    > opinion it is better to have a job in admin BEFORE you study for it!! In
    > which case, why bother wasting your money when you ALREADY have a job?
    >
    > If it was the latter (getting experience whilst studying on a home setup),
    > then forgive my mistake.
    >

    Hands-on experience is both. Naturally, on-the-job experience is going
    to be more valuable to the employer because it's easier to prove. It
    isn't comprehensive though, so having a lab at home (and if you're
    lucky, on-the-job) is important too. IT isn't the kind of profession
    you can really leave behind when you leave work for the day.

    As for experience BEFORE you get a job, you will need it for certain
    kinds of jobs. You will need to have worked your way up if you want
    administrative positions. You can't get an MCSA or and MCSE and expect
    to be handed a sys admin or sys engineer position with no on-the-job
    experience in IT. That doesn't mean you have to have been a sys admin
    to get a job as a sys admin. And this is always the situation for job
    seekers, regardless of their field. The one with the most experience
    usually wins the job and they will nearly always take the one who has
    done the work on-the-job over the one who used a home setup to get
    experience, regardless of the number of letters behind their name.
    --

    Catwalker
    MCNGP #43
    www.mcngp.com
    "I have a gun. It's loaded. Shut up."
     
    catwalker63, Apr 30, 2007
    #17
  18. Marc I found your point of view very entertaining Thanks for making me
    laugh. I agree with you

    "Marc Livingstone" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    > I'm rather confused!
    >
    > When you and others in this thread are griping about people needing
    > hands-on
    > experience, are you referring to experience in the workplace or practicing
    > at
    > home whilst studying?
    >
    > If it is the former, then we have a slight "chicken and egg" situation.
    > Employers are hardly going to take even an entry-level admin on with ZERO
    > QUALIFICATIONS.
    > This may be me getting the wrong end of the stick (not the first time
    > lol),
    > but what it SEEMS like you are suggesting by your tone is that in your
    > opinion it is better to have a job in admin BEFORE you study for it!! In
    > which case, why bother wasting your money when you ALREADY have a job?
    >
    > If it was the latter (getting experience whilst studying on a home setup),
    > then forgive my mistake.
    >
    > "Michael D. Alligood" wrote:
    >
    >> "jkozlowski" <> wrote in message
    >> news::
    >>
    >> > I pretty much have 0 experience at hands on in the windows 2003 server
    >> > arena.
    >> > (Im not a network engineer, just a computer tech for the last 20 years)

    >>
    >> Here is the audience profile (recommended experience) for the MCSA
    >> certification:
    >> http://www.microsoft.com/learning/exams/70-291.mspx#ETB
    >>
    >> Here are the tested objectives for the 70-291 exam:
    >> http://www.microsoft.com/learning/exams/70-291.mspx#E6E
    >>
    >> My question is what in the world made you take this, or any of the
    >> MCSA/MCSE exams with ZERO hands-on experience?!? Please allow me to ask
    >> another question as well. What if you passed this exam? No wait, what if
    >> you passed the entire MCSA certification. With ZERO experience, wouldn't
    >> you think that your MCSA certificate was meaningless? I mean you would
    >> have obtained a System Administrator credential in a Windows 2003
    >> network environment without having laid on finger on the technology...
    >>
    >> What do you think this does for the MCSA/MCSE certification?
    >>
    >> --
    >> Michael D. Alligood, MCSA, MCDST
    >> The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    >> CertGuard - http://www.certguard.com
    >>
    >>
    >>
     
    Keith Chilton, Apr 30, 2007
    #18
  19. catwalker,

    thats some good personal insight into the discussion. thank you!

    keith

    "catwalker63" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Marc Livingstone piffled away vaguely:
    >
    >> I'm rather confused!
    >>
    >> When you and others in this thread are griping about people needing
    >> hands-on
    >> experience, are you referring to experience in the workplace or
    >> practicing at
    >> home whilst studying?
    >>
    >> If it is the former, then we have a slight "chicken and egg" situation.
    >> Employers are hardly going to take even an entry-level admin on with ZERO
    >> QUALIFICATIONS.
    >> This may be me getting the wrong end of the stick (not the first time
    >> lol),
    >> but what it SEEMS like you are suggesting by your tone is that in your
    >> opinion it is better to have a job in admin BEFORE you study for it!! In
    >> which case, why bother wasting your money when you ALREADY have a job?
    >>
    >> If it was the latter (getting experience whilst studying on a home
    >> setup),
    >> then forgive my mistake.
    >>

    > Hands-on experience is both. Naturally, on-the-job experience is going
    > to be more valuable to the employer because it's easier to prove. It
    > isn't comprehensive though, so having a lab at home (and if you're
    > lucky, on-the-job) is important too. IT isn't the kind of profession
    > you can really leave behind when you leave work for the day.
    >
    > As for experience BEFORE you get a job, you will need it for certain
    > kinds of jobs. You will need to have worked your way up if you want
    > administrative positions. You can't get an MCSA or and MCSE and expect
    > to be handed a sys admin or sys engineer position with no on-the-job
    > experience in IT. That doesn't mean you have to have been a sys admin
    > to get a job as a sys admin. And this is always the situation for job
    > seekers, regardless of their field. The one with the most experience
    > usually wins the job and they will nearly always take the one who has
    > done the work on-the-job over the one who used a home setup to get
    > experience, regardless of the number of letters behind their name.
    > --
    >
    > Catwalker
    > MCNGP #43
    > www.mcngp.com
    > "I have a gun. It's loaded. Shut up."
    >
     
    Keith Chilton, Apr 30, 2007
    #19
  20. "Marc Livingstone" <> wrote in
    message news::

    > I'm rather confused!
    >
    > When you and others in this thread are griping about people needing hands-on
    > experience, are you referring to experience in the workplace or practicing at
    > home whilst studying?
    >
    > If it is the former, then we have a slight "chicken and egg" situation.
    > Employers are hardly going to take even an entry-level admin on with ZERO
    > QUALIFICATIONS.
    > This may be me getting the wrong end of the stick (not the first time lol),
    > but what it SEEMS like you are suggesting by your tone is that in your
    > opinion it is better to have a job in admin BEFORE you study for it!! In
    > which case, why bother wasting your money when you ALREADY have a job?
    >
    > If it was the latter (getting experience whilst studying on a home setup),
    > then forgive my mistake.


    This original point of this thread was the pursuit of certifications
    before experience. As Cat said, it would be foolish for an employer to
    hire a MCSA or MCSE without on-the-job experience. Back to the original
    post, "jkozlowski" took the 70-291 exam without the recommended
    experience with the technology. Again, as Cat said and I preach; this is
    the crux of the problem with the certification programs. Certification
    are not designed for people without experience.

    --
    Michael D. Alligood, MCSA, MCDST
    The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    CertGuard - http://www.certguard.com


    No virus found in this outgoing message.
    Checked by AVG Free Edition.
    Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/780 - Release Date: 4/29/2007
    6:30 AM
     
    Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard], Apr 30, 2007
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Lance Malish

    45 rootkits listed on my system? Ouch!!

    Lance Malish, Apr 24, 2004, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    12
    Views:
    1,775
    Gary G. Taylor
    Apr 27, 2004
  2. Blinky the Shark

    OE/MAC (Ouch!) - Quoting With ">"

    Blinky the Shark, Jan 3, 2005, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    19
    Views:
    780
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Brian_H=B9=A9?=
    Jan 4, 2005
  3. Smokey

    Ouch!!

    Smokey, May 17, 2005, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    648
    Old Gringo
    May 17, 2005
  4. Dutch

    10D Happy dance (but ouch my wallet <grin>)

    Dutch, Sep 19, 2003, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    10
    Views:
    529
  5. FinalHokage

    70-291 harder than 70-291

    FinalHokage, Feb 7, 2006, in forum: MCSA
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    504
    Paul UK
    Apr 11, 2006
Loading...

Share This Page