500W Flourescent photo lamps ????

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by dajaxon, Feb 14, 2005.

  1. dajaxon

    dajaxon Guest

    I have had an interest in using "hot" lights in place of flash for indoor
    work and realize that 500W lights can be dangerously hot. Are there any 500W
    equivalents in flourescents that wil probably last longer and be cooler?

    I don't think I really need to have 5000K lights since I'm shooting
    digital - because I believe I can color correct for the K.

    Anyone have any leads of who might make this, and comments about this being
    a wise choice or not.

    DJ
     
    dajaxon, Feb 14, 2005
    #1
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  2. dajaxon

    Crownfield Guest

    dajaxon wrote:
    >
    > I have had an interest in using "hot" lights in place of flash for indoor
    > work and realize that 500W lights can be dangerously hot. Are there any 500W
    > equivalents in flourescents that wil probably last longer and be cooler?
    >
    > I don't think I really need to have 5000K lights since I'm shooting
    > digital - because I believe I can color correct for the K.
    >
    > Anyone have any leads of who might make this, and comments about this being
    > a wise choice or not.


    strobes?


    >
    > DJ
     
    Crownfield, Feb 14, 2005
    #2
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  3. dajaxon

    Matt Ion Guest

    dajaxon wrote:
    > I have had an interest in using "hot" lights in place of flash for indoor
    > work and realize that 500W lights can be dangerously hot. Are there any 500W
    > equivalents in flourescents that wil probably last longer and be cooler?
    >
    > I don't think I really need to have 5000K lights since I'm shooting
    > digital - because I believe I can color correct for the K.
    >
    > Anyone have any leads of who might make this, and comments about this being
    > a wise choice or not.


    I dunno that you'd really want to use flourescent - despite designed
    color temperatures, their light output tends to within very narrow bands
    - a spectrograph generally looks like a comb with a bunch of teeth
    missing, just one long tooth at the primary wavelenth and maybe a few
    shorter ones. Same with any light source that uses excited gas vapors
    to produce most of their output, like mercury-vapor street lamps, which
    is why colors tend to look odd or almost disappear entirely under these
    lights.

    Even colored incandescants light up a fairly wide range of color around
    their primary color.

    Ever considered a couple proper studio strobes?
     
    Matt Ion, Feb 14, 2005
    #3
  4. dajaxon

    Mark² Guest

    "dajaxon" <> wrote in message
    news:6QWPd.55719$...
    >I have had an interest in using "hot" lights in place of flash for indoor
    > work and realize that 500W lights can be dangerously hot. Are there any 500W
    > equivalents in flourescents that wil probably last longer and be cooler?
    >
    > I don't think I really need to have 5000K lights since I'm shooting
    > digital - because I believe I can color correct for the K.
    >
    > Anyone have any leads of who might make this, and comments about this being
    > a wise choice or not.
    >
    > DJ


    I really don't think you would find floourescent light very pleasing--even with filters or
    white-balance adjustments.
     
    Mark², Feb 14, 2005
    #4
  5. dajaxon

    Bob Williams Guest

    dajaxon wrote:
    > I have had an interest in using "hot" lights in place of flash for indoor
    > work and realize that 500W lights can be dangerously hot. Are there any 500W
    > equivalents in flourescents that wil probably last longer and be cooler?
    >
    > I don't think I really need to have 5000K lights since I'm shooting
    > digital - because I believe I can color correct for the K.
    >
    > Anyone have any leads of who might make this, and comments about this being
    > a wise choice or not.
    >
    > DJ
    >


    Visit this site.
    http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/compact_fluorescent.shtml
    They have a 65 Watt compact fluorescent Full Spectrum CRI=93
    (CRI= Color RenditionIndex Index) that has a lumen output equivalent to
    a 300W incandescent.
    A pair of those may serve your needs.
    Bob Williams
     
    Bob Williams, Feb 14, 2005
    #5
  6. dajaxon

    Al Dykes Guest

    In article <3xYPd.385973$6l.320129@pd7tw2no>,
    Matt Ion <> wrote:
    >dajaxon wrote:
    >> I have had an interest in using "hot" lights in place of flash for indoor
    >> work and realize that 500W lights can be dangerously hot. Are there any 500W
    >> equivalents in flourescents that wil probably last longer and be cooler?
    >>
    >> I don't think I really need to have 5000K lights since I'm shooting
    >> digital - because I believe I can color correct for the K.
    >>
    >> Anyone have any leads of who might make this, and comments about this being
    >> a wise choice or not.

    >
    >I dunno that you'd really want to use flourescent - despite designed
    >color temperatures, their light output tends to within very narrow bands
    >- a spectrograph generally looks like a comb with a bunch of teeth
    >missing, just one long tooth at the primary wavelenth and maybe a few
    >shorter ones. Same with any light source that uses excited gas vapors
    >to produce most of their output, like mercury-vapor street lamps, which
    >is why colors tend to look odd or almost disappear entirely under these
    >lights.
    >
    >Even colored incandescants light up a fairly wide range of color around
    >their primary color.
    >
    >Ever considered a couple proper studio strobes?
    >


    500 watts is 500 watts. If it's on all the time it doesn't matter if
    it's a toaster or a photo lamp. It's going to generate the same amount
    of heat.







    --

    a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

    Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
     
    Al Dykes, Feb 14, 2005
    #6
  7. dajaxon

    SteveJ Guest

    Never tried but what about the 150-200Watt equivalent Spiral or twister
    fluorescents bulbs, use two of them to eq 500w bulb.
    The heat output will be allot less also. A 45 watt spiral bulb will almost
    generate the light equivalent of a 200 bulb.


    Bob Williams" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > dajaxon wrote:
    >> I have had an interest in using "hot" lights in place of flash for indoor
    >> work and realize that 500W lights can be dangerously hot. Are there any
    >> 500W
    >> equivalents in flourescents that wil probably last longer and be cooler?
    >>
    >> I don't think I really need to have 5000K lights since I'm shooting
    >> digital - because I believe I can color correct for the K.
    >>
    >> Anyone have any leads of who might make this, and comments about this
    >> being
    >> a wise choice or not.
    >>
    >> DJ
    >>

    >
    > Visit this site.
    > http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/compact_fluorescent.shtml
    > They have a 65 Watt compact fluorescent Full Spectrum CRI=93
    > (CRI= Color RenditionIndex Index) that has a lumen output equivalent to a
    > 300W incandescent.
    > A pair of those may serve your needs.
    > Bob Williams
    >
    >
     
    SteveJ, Feb 14, 2005
    #7
  8. Calumet photo (search google) sells 2 different lighting setups to do just
    what you want.



    --
    John Passaneau
    Penn State University



    "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote in message
    news:Q8ZPd.90221$0u.88710@fed1read04...
    >
    > "dajaxon" <> wrote in message
    > news:6QWPd.55719$...
    > >I have had an interest in using "hot" lights in place of flash for indoor
    > > work and realize that 500W lights can be dangerously hot. Are there any

    500W
    > > equivalents in flourescents that wil probably last longer and be cooler?
    > >
    > > I don't think I really need to have 5000K lights since I'm shooting
    > > digital - because I believe I can color correct for the K.
    > >
    > > Anyone have any leads of who might make this, and comments about this

    being
    > > a wise choice or not.
    > >
    > > DJ

    >
    > I really don't think you would find floourescent light very pleasing--even

    with filters or
    > white-balance adjustments.
    >
    >
     
    John Passaneau, Feb 14, 2005
    #8
  9. dajaxon

    Charlie Self Guest

    Charlie Self, Feb 14, 2005
    #9
  10. dajaxon wrote:
    > I have had an interest in using "hot" lights in place of flash for
    > indoor work and realize that 500W lights can be dangerously hot. Are
    > there any 500W equivalents in flourescents that wil probably last
    > longer and be cooler?
    >
    > I don't think I really need to have 5000K lights since I'm shooting
    > digital - because I believe I can color correct for the K.
    >


    No you don't need 5000K, but you can experience some unexpected, and
    unpredictable and often undesirable results with fluorescent lights. The
    newer better fluorescent lamps are better than the old ones, but they not
    the equal to a full spectrum lamp.

    What happens is that with sun light and tungsten type lamps there is a
    fairly smooth continuous mix if colors. You may call them analog. In
    fluorescent and gas discharge lamps, the light tends to be spotty, with very
    strong bust of output at certain specific colors and then gaps between.

    If you had only true white or gray or black subjects like a gray card,
    your results would be fine. however in real life it is not that simple.
    Take a tree leaf. During the summer, it appears green. In the fall it
    "turns" red. Well it did not change color it lost some of the chemicals in
    the leaf and they reflected on certain colors and then the remainder of the
    chemicals show up as the colors that they reflect. Part of the spectrum is
    no longer reflected. These lights make it more complex.

    Some objects reflect only a very small range of certain colors. If the
    light reflected by those chemicals in a leaf that leave the leaf in the
    fall, reflected on a small range of light and if your fluorescent lamp did
    not have any light in that range, but rather had extra strong light in close
    by colors, you might see the green leaf, but the camera would see the red
    fall leaf.

    > Anyone have any leads of who might make this, and comments about this
    > being a wise choice or not.
    >
    > DJ




    --
    Joseph Meehan

    26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
     
    Joseph Meehan, Feb 14, 2005
    #10
  11. (Al Dykes) writes:

    >500 watts is 500 watts. If it's on all the time it doesn't matter if
    >it's a toaster or a photo lamp. It's going to generate the same amount
    >of heat.


    He said "500 W equivalents". In other words, fluorescent lamps that put
    out an equivalent amount of light. Given the usual difference in
    efficiency, about 100 W of fluorescents provide as much light as 500 W
    of incandescent lamps, but with only 1/5 as much heat.

    Dave
     
    Dave Martindale, Feb 14, 2005
    #11
  12. dajaxon

    Guest

    dajaxon <> wrote:

    > I have had an interest in using "hot" lights in place of flash for
    > indoor work and realize that 500W lights can be dangerously hot. Are
    > there any 500W equivalents in flourescents that wil probably last
    > longer and be cooler?


    HMI lightting is the continuous alternative to strobes.

    For example, http://www.k5600.com/

    Andrew.
     
    , Feb 14, 2005
    #12
  13. dajaxon

    Taswolf Guest


    >
    > Visit this site.
    > http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/compact_fluorescent.shtml
    > They have a 65 Watt compact fluorescent Full Spectrum CRI=93
    > (CRI= Color RenditionIndex Index) that has a lumen output equivalent
    > to a 300W incandescent.
    > A pair of those may serve your needs.
    > Bob Williams
    >
    >


    Interesting bulb, thanks for the info Bob!

    T.W.
     
    Taswolf, Feb 15, 2005
    #13
  14. dajaxon

    Bubbabob Guest

    Bob Williams <> wrote:

    >
    >
    > dajaxon wrote:
    >> I have had an interest in using "hot" lights in place of flash for
    >> indoor work and realize that 500W lights can be dangerously hot. Are
    >> there any 500W equivalents in flourescents that wil probably last
    >> longer and be cooler?
    >>
    >> I don't think I really need to have 5000K lights since I'm shooting
    >> digital - because I believe I can color correct for the K.
    >>
    >> Anyone have any leads of who might make this, and comments about this
    >> being a wise choice or not.
    >>
    >> DJ
    >>

    >
    > Visit this site.
    > http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/compact_fluorescent.shtml
    > They have a 65 Watt compact fluorescent Full Spectrum CRI=93
    > (CRI= Color RenditionIndex Index) that has a lumen output equivalent
    > to a 300W incandescent.
    > A pair of those may serve your needs.
    > Bob Williams
    >
    >
    >


    A CRI of 93 is still pretty awful. Just look at what anything under CRI=
    98 does to a color print compared to a continous spectrum incandescent
    light like a Solux.

    They make CRI98 fluorescents in Australia but I've never seen any in NA.
     
    Bubbabob, Feb 15, 2005
    #14
  15. dajaxon

    Paul J Gans Guest

    Al Dykes <> wrote:
    >In article <3xYPd.385973$6l.320129@pd7tw2no>,
    >Matt Ion <> wrote:
    >>dajaxon wrote:
    >>> I have had an interest in using "hot" lights in place of flash for indoor
    >>> work and realize that 500W lights can be dangerously hot. Are there any 500W
    >>> equivalents in flourescents that wil probably last longer and be cooler?
    >>>
    >>> I don't think I really need to have 5000K lights since I'm shooting
    >>> digital - because I believe I can color correct for the K.
    >>>
    >>> Anyone have any leads of who might make this, and comments about this being
    >>> a wise choice or not.

    >>
    >>I dunno that you'd really want to use flourescent - despite designed
    >>color temperatures, their light output tends to within very narrow bands
    >>- a spectrograph generally looks like a comb with a bunch of teeth
    >>missing, just one long tooth at the primary wavelenth and maybe a few
    >>shorter ones. Same with any light source that uses excited gas vapors
    >>to produce most of their output, like mercury-vapor street lamps, which
    >>is why colors tend to look odd or almost disappear entirely under these
    >>lights.
    >>
    >>Even colored incandescants light up a fairly wide range of color around
    >>their primary color.
    >>
    >>Ever considered a couple proper studio strobes?
    >>


    >500 watts is 500 watts. If it's on all the time it doesn't matter if
    >it's a toaster or a photo lamp. It's going to generate the same amount
    >of heat.



    Hmm. I'm not sure. A flourescent that puts out as much
    light as a 500 watt incandescent would not draw anything
    like 500 watts.

    ----- Paul J. Gans
     
    Paul J Gans, Feb 15, 2005
    #15
  16. dajaxon

    Possum Trot Guest

    "Paul J Gans" <> wrote in message
    news:cus0mq$pp8$...

    >>500 watts is 500 watts. If it's on all the time it doesn't matter if
    >>it's a toaster or a photo lamp. It's going to generate the same amount
    >>of heat.

    >
    >
    > Hmm. I'm not sure. A flourescent that puts out as much
    > light as a 500 watt incandescent would not draw anything
    > like 500 watts.
    >
    > ----- Paul J. Gans


    IIRC a 27 watt fluorescent is equivalent to a 100 watt incandescent - about
    1600 lumens. So 150 watts of fluorescents should equal about 500 of
    incandescent. I wonder if a couple of 20 watt spiral 6500k "Daylight", a
    couple of spiral 5100K "Office Daylight", and a couple of regular
    soft/warm white spiral fluorescents wouldn't approximate real daylight. I
    bought both 6500K and 5100K 20 watt (~75 w) spirals at Home Depot.
     
    Possum Trot, Feb 15, 2005
    #16
  17. dajaxon

    Bob Salomon Guest

    In article <Xns95FDD6D71DAC3dilfjelfoiwepofujsdk@216.168.3.30>,
    Bubbabob <rnorton@_remove_this_thuntek.net> wrote:

    > Bob Williams <> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >
    > > dajaxon wrote:
    > >> I have had an interest in using "hot" lights in place of flash for
    > >> indoor work and realize that 500W lights can be dangerously hot. Are
    > >> there any 500W equivalents in flourescents that wil probably last
    > >> longer and be cooler?
    > >>
    > >> I don't think I really need to have 5000K lights since I'm shooting
    > >> digital - because I believe I can color correct for the K.
    > >>
    > >> Anyone have any leads of who might make this, and comments about this
    > >> being a wise choice or not.
    > >>
    > >> DJ
    > >>

    > >
    > > Visit this site.
    > > http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/compact_fluorescent.shtml
    > > They have a 65 Watt compact fluorescent Full Spectrum CRI=93
    > > (CRI= Color RenditionIndex Index) that has a lumen output equivalent
    > > to a 300W incandescent.
    > > A pair of those may serve your needs.
    > > Bob Williams
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    > A CRI of 93 is still pretty awful. Just look at what anything under CRI=
    > 98 does to a color print compared to a continous spectrum incandescent
    > light like a Solux.
    >
    > They make CRI98 fluorescents in Australia but I've never seen any in NA.


    Osram Dulux 55W tubes in the proper fixtures put out a CRI of 98+. They
    are also available in 36W and can be bought as 5000K or in 3200K. Use
    with electronic ballasts.

    These are the bulbs used for high end quality copying on film or digital
    as well as for TV and movie set lighting and in the highest quality
    light boxes.

    --
    To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.
     
    Bob Salomon, Feb 15, 2005
    #17
  18. dajaxon

    Bob Williams Guest

    Bubbabob wrote:
    > Bob Williams <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >>dajaxon wrote:
    >>
    >>>I have had an interest in using "hot" lights in place of flash for
    >>>indoor work and realize that 500W lights can be dangerously hot. Are
    >>>there any 500W equivalents in flourescents that wil probably last
    >>>longer and be cooler?
    >>>
    >>>I don't think I really need to have 5000K lights since I'm shooting
    >>>digital - because I believe I can color correct for the K.
    >>>
    >>>Anyone have any leads of who might make this, and comments about this
    >>>being a wise choice or not.
    >>>
    >>>DJ
    >>>

    >>
    >>Visit this site.
    >>http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/compact_fluorescent.shtml
    >>They have a 65 Watt compact fluorescent Full Spectrum CRI=93
    >>(CRI= Color RenditionIndex Index) that has a lumen output equivalent
    >>to a 300W incandescent.
    >>A pair of those may serve your needs.
    >>Bob Williams
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    > A CRI of 93 is still pretty awful. Just look at what anything under CRI=
    > 98 does to a color print compared to a continous spectrum incandescent
    > light like a Solux.
    >
    > They make CRI98 fluorescents in Australia but I've never seen any in NA.


    A CRI of 93 is pretty awful?
    Surely you jest!
    I photographed a MacBeth Chart with a CRI 93 Fluorescent light and with
    Sunlight. I opened them in Photoshop and read the RGB values from each
    square. The readings were extremely close for every square with no
    indication of a color bias.
    I dare say that the differences were probably similar to comparing two
    shots taken in Sunlight at different times of the day or with different
    cloud cover. In actual practice, Sunlight does not have a very reliable,
    reproducible color temperature.
    Bob Williams
     
    Bob Williams, Feb 15, 2005
    #18
  19. dajaxon

    dajaxon Guest

    500 W equivalents - please re-read
     
    dajaxon, Feb 15, 2005
    #19
  20. dajaxon

    Bill Tuthill Guest

    Bob Williams <> wrote:
    >
    >> A CRI of 93 is still pretty awful. Just look at what anything under
    >> CRI=98 does to a color print compared to a continous spectrum incandescent
    >> light like a Solux.
    >>

    > A CRI of 93 is pretty awful?
    > Surely you jest!
    > I photographed a MacBeth Chart with a CRI 93 Fluorescent light and with
    > Sunlight. I opened them in Photoshop and read the RGB values from each
    > square. The readings were extremely close for every square with no
    > indication of a color bias.
    > I dare say that the differences were probably similar to comparing two
    > shots taken in Sunlight at different times of the day or with different
    > cloud cover. In actual practice, Sunlight does not have a very reliable,
    > reproducible color temperature.


    Were the gray patches slightly green?

    Nonetheless the Osram Delux bulbs with CRI 98+ would seem to be
    the best choice, if you can find them. B&H doesn't list them,
    and Froogle comes up empty.
     
    Bill Tuthill, Feb 15, 2005
    #20
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