4th RFD: rec.photo.digital reorganization

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Thad, Sep 8, 2004.

  1. Thad

    Guest

    In news.groups Gisle Hannemyr <> wrote:

    > Should rangefinder and zlr material be on topic or not? I don't
    > care. I would vote for a "rec.photo.digital.slr" if discussions
    > about rangefinders and zlrs where included - and I would vote for a
    > "rec.photo.digital.slr" if they by charter are relegated to the
    > existing "catch-all" group ("rec.photo.digital") - and I would even
    > vote for a "rec.photo.digital.slr" charter that skirted the issue
    > entirely by not mentioning rangefinders and zlrs at all.


    > But I will vote /against/ the creation of two new zombie groups,
    > even if that stops "rec.photo.digital.slr" (which is a new group
    > I want and think merits creation) from being created.


    As far as I'm aware, the votes will be separate. I intend to vote YES
    to slr-systems and NO to rangefinders (which don't really exist), NO
    to zlrs (because I don't think they need a new group) and abstain on
    P&S (which is the meat 'n potatoes of r.p.d.)

    Andrew.
     
    , Sep 13, 2004
    #61
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  2. Ken Tough wrote:
    >
    > Thad <> wrote:
    >
    > > REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
    > > unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
    > > unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.zlr
    > > unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
    > > unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.rangefinder
    > >
    > >This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the reorganization of
    > >the digital photography groups in the rec.photo.digital hierarchy.

    >
    > Is it possible to vote yes to the creation of a subset of these groups?


    Yez. You can vote Yes on some, No on others, and Abstain on
    still others. The votes will be counted separately.
    --
    This account is subject to a persistent MS Blaster and SWEN attack.
    I think I've got the problem resolved, but, if you E-mail me
    and it bounces, a second try might work.
    However, please reply in newsgroup.
     
    Arthur L. Rubin, Sep 13, 2004
    #62
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  3. Thad

    Paul J Gans Guest

    Gisle Hannemyr <> wrote:
    >Paul J Gans <> writes:
    >> By the way, the more groups, the easier it is for spammers to get
    >> them all. It takes but a minute to put all the groups into the
    >> headers and then they get five groups for the effort of spamming
    >> one.


    >Yeah - but excessive crossposting is a sure sign of a spammer, a
    >cascader and a nutter - so just killing crossposts nets three types
    >of bozo for the price of one. That evens it out.
    >--


    I agree. I wish that folks creating newsgroup filters would
    also include a setting for killing posts sent to too many
    newsgroups.

    However, my personal skull-encased computer often simply
    deletes postings with too many newsgroups.


    But that was my negative on more groups. I also included
    what I thought were some positives as well.

    ---- Paul J. Gans
     
    Paul J Gans, Sep 13, 2004
    #63
  4. Lionel <> writes:

    > Kibo informs me that edward ohare
    > <> stated that:


    >>Hmmmm.... had a thought of when zooms for 35mm became decent that
    >>there were a bunch of people who stuck a 35-70 zoom on the front of
    >>their slr and never took it off. I believe there were some slrs that
    >>came standard with such a zoom.

    >
    > Yep. I'd guess that at least 3/4 of SLR owners have never removed the
    > generic zoom that they got with the camera. That said, those people
    > aren't all that likely to be talking about their camera on Usenet.


    I think this was especially true back before zoom point-and-shoots,
    when the *only* way to get anything beyond a single "normal" lens was
    the SLR. More recently, though, people mostly carry SLRs because they
    use features not found on other cameras, I think.
    --
    David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
    RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
    Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
    Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Sep 13, 2004
    #64
  5. Thad

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    David Dyer-Bennet <> wrote:

    > I think this was especially true back before zoom point-and-shoots,
    > when the *only* way to get anything beyond a single "normal" lens was
    > the SLR. More recently, though, people mostly carry SLRs because they
    > use features not found on other cameras, I think.


    Looking around at touristy areas these days, the only people who seem to
    have SLRs are the ones who are clearly pretty serious about it. Most
    people are using digicams -- and I'm actually quite surprised at the
    very large number of people using camera phones for tourist snaps.

    --
    Jeremy |
     
    Jeremy Nixon, Sep 13, 2004
    #65
  6. Thad

    Guest

    lid wrote:

    >and NO to rangefinders (which don't really exist)


    Don't get me wrong. I don't want you to change your vote. I just wanted to
    point out that digital rangefinders do exist. :)

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0403/04031101epsonrd1.asp

    I'm trying to figure out what questions are going to be different between a
    digital rangefinder user and a zlr or a dslr user.
     
    , Sep 14, 2004
    #66
  7. Thad

    Klaas Guest

    After careful consideration, muttered:

    > In news.groups Gisle Hannemyr <> wrote:


    > NO to zlrs (because I don't think they need a new group)


    Traditionally, such an opinion is expressed by /not voting YES/, not
    /voting NO/. "NO" isn't supposed to mean "I don't think there is enough
    interest for a group".

    -Mike
     
    Klaas, Sep 14, 2004
    #67
  8. writes:
    > lid wrote:


    >>and NO to rangefinders (which don't really exist)


    > Don't get me wrong. I don't want you to change your vote. I just wanted to
    > point out that digital rangefinders do exist. :)
    >
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0403/04031101epsonrd1.asp


    If a camera is announced, but there is nowhere you can buy
    it - does it /really/ exist?
    --
    - gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
    ========================================================================
    «To live outside the law, you must be honest.» (Bob Dylan)
     
    Gisle Hannemyr, Sep 14, 2004
    #68
  9. "Gisle Hannemyr" <> wrote:
    > writes:
    > > lid wrote:

    >
    > >>and NO to rangefinders (which don't really exist)

    >
    > > Don't get me wrong. I don't want you to change your vote. I just

    wanted to
    > > point out that digital rangefinders do exist. :)
    > >
    > > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0403/04031101epsonrd1.asp

    >
    > If a camera is announced, but there is nowhere you can buy
    > it - does it /really/ exist?


    It's on the shelves in Tokyo. My understanding, though, was that they were
    only going to produce 3,000 of them or so. So maybe it doesn't exist after
    all.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
     
    David J. Littleboy, Sep 14, 2004
    #69
  10. "David J. Littleboy" <> writes:
    > "Gisle Hannemyr" <> wrote:
    >> writes:
    >>> lid wrote:


    >>>>and NO to rangefinders (which don't really exist)


    >>> Don't get me wrong. I don't want you to change your vote. I just
    >>> wanted to point out that digital rangefinders do exist. :)
    >>> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0403/04031101epsonrd1.asp

    >
    >> If a camera is announced, but there is nowhere you can buy
    >> it - does it /really/ exist?


    > It's on the shelves in Tokyo. My understanding, though, was that
    > they were only going to produce 3,000 of them or so. So maybe it
    > doesn't exist after all.


    What does it cost in Tokyo? I saw in a magazine that the body was
    expected to be sold for the equivalent of US$ 3500 - but I haven't
    actually seen any of these for sale - with or without a real price
    attached to it.
    --
    - gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
    ========================================================================
    «To live outside the law, you must be honest.» (Bob Dylan)
     
    Gisle Hannemyr, Sep 14, 2004
    #70
  11. "Gisle Hannemyr" <> wrote:
    > "David J. Littleboy" <> writes:
    > > "Gisle Hannemyr" <> wrote:

    >
    > >>> Don't get me wrong. I don't want you to change your vote. I just
    > >>> wanted to point out that digital rangefinders do exist. :)
    > >>> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0403/04031101epsonrd1.asp

    > >
    > >> If a camera is announced, but there is nowhere you can buy
    > >> it - does it /really/ exist?

    >
    > > It's on the shelves in Tokyo. My understanding, though, was that
    > > they were only going to produce 3,000 of them or so. So maybe it
    > > doesn't exist after all.

    >
    > What does it cost in Tokyo? I saw in a magazine that the body was
    > expected to be sold for the equivalent of US$ 3500 - but I haven't
    > actually seen any of these for sale - with or without a real price
    > attached to it.


    Maybe not quite that much, but that's the ballpark.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
     
    David J. Littleboy, Sep 14, 2004
    #71
  12. Thad

    Dave Guest

    "David J. Littleboy" <> wrote in message news:<ci697e$9a1$>...
    > "Gisle Hannemyr" <> wrote:
    > > writes:
    > > > lid wrote:

    >
    > > >>and NO to rangefinders (which don't really exist)

    >
    > > > Don't get me wrong. I don't want you to change your vote. I just

    > wanted to
    > > > point out that digital rangefinders do exist. :)
    > > >
    > > > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0403/04031101epsonrd1.asp

    > >
    > > If a camera is announced, but there is nowhere you can buy
    > > it - does it /really/ exist?

    >
    > It's on the shelves in Tokyo. My understanding, though, was that they were
    > only going to produce 3,000 of them or so. So maybe it doesn't exist after
    > all.
    >



    3000 of 'em. Wow! Of course, let's give them there own super-special
    new Big 8 group ;v)
     
    Dave, Sep 14, 2004
    #72
  13. Thad

    Bill Aten Guest

    CFV: rec.photo.digital reorganization

    FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.rangefinder
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.zlr

    Newsgroups lines:
    rec.photo.digital.point+shoot Point-and-shoot digital cameras.
    rec.photo.digital.rangefinder Digital rangefinder camera systems.
    rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems.
    rec.photo.digital.zlr Digital cameras w/ fixed zoom lenses & manual controls.

    Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 20 Oct 2004.

    This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about
    the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

    Proponent: Alan Browne <>
    Proponent: William Drew <>
    Proponent: Thaddeus Lipshitz <>
    Proponent: Alexis Pagonis <>
    Proponent: Rose Parchen <>
    Proponent: David J Taylor <>
    Votetaker: Bill Aten <>

    RATIONALE: all groups

    The growth of digital photography has caused the only Big-8 digital photography
    newsgroup (rec.photo.digital) to become overwhelmed with an enormous volume of
    posts. RPD was created to discuss all general aspects of digital photography -
    including cameras, scanners, printers, software, and other related topics. More
    and more people are using digital cameras, and learning about photography. The
    modern digital camera has evolved into a family of different flavors. Different
    tools have different needs. Four new groups are proposed to offer digital
    photographers technology-specific forums which allow users to concentrate on
    what best meets their current needs.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.point+shoot

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of point-and-shoot digital cameras, accessories for those
    cameras, and using those cameras, separate from digital SLR, digital ZLR, and
    digital rangefinder cameras. Point-and-shoot digicams are more popular then
    ever. Image quality from these generally compact cameras is beginning to rival
    that of their larger digital SLR and digital ZLR cousins. It makes sense to
    create a new newsgroup for the largest segment of the digital camera
    population: the point-and-shoot digicams.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.rangefinder

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of digital rangefinder cameras, lenses and accessories for
    those cameras, and using those cameras, separate from digital SLR, digital ZLR,
    and digital point-and shoot cameras. Digital rangefinders are currently in
    development by camera manufacturers such as Leica, Voigtlander, Contax, and
    Epson. Upon availability, these digital bodies will offer a viable digital
    solution for owners of Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander and other quality lenses for
    rangefinders. There is already a good level of enthusiasm and discussion
    surrounding this unique category of digital cameras.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems, separate
    from film SLR cameras and non-SLR digital cameras. Digital SLR photography is
    growing at an amazing rate. It is time to create a Big-8 newsgroup for digital
    SLR enthusiasts. Rec.photo.digital was created before the digital photography
    revolution peaked. At that time, digital SLR camera systems were not easily
    obtainable by the average person, due to high cost and limited availability.
    Due to advances in the past year alone by some of the major camera
    manufacturers, a person can find digital SLR camera equipment for sale at
    almost every shopping mall, strip mall, or electronics store on earth, at very
    reasonable prices.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.zlr

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of high-end digital cameras with zoom lenses and full manual
    controls, accessories for those cameras, and using those cameras, separate from
    digital SLR cameras, digital rangefinders and digital point-and-shoot cameras.
    These cameras are frequently referred to as digital ZLR (zoom lens reflex)
    cameras or SLR-like digital cameras, and typically have an SLR-like appearance
    due to the bulk of the lens rather than the relatively more compact shape of
    most point-and-shoot cameras. The digital ZLR is emerging as the camera of
    choice for many people that have graduated from basic point-and-shoot digital
    cameras, but don't need the added bulk and weight of a comparably equipped
    digital SLR.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.point+shoot

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.point+shoot, is an open forum for the
    discussion of point-and-shoot digital cameras, and using those cameras.

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Any relevant accessories for point-and-shoot digital cameras, such as: add-on
    lens elements, memory cards, microdrives, camera bags/cases, and camera
    maintenance.
    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of point-and-shoot digital photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of point-and-shoot digital photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the discussion
    remains within the context of point-and-shoot digital photography

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of digital SLR, ZLR, rangefinder, or other digital cameras with
    manual controls
    - Discussion of any film cameras
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    point-and-shoot digital photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital camera brands or models are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.point+shoot, please use standard Usenet
    netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions
    when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the
    significant portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that
    specify who wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or
    less. To ensure readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line
    lengths to the Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.rangefinder

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.rangefinder, is an open forum for the
    discussion of digital rangefinder camera systems.

    These systems consist of:

    - Digital rangefinder camera bodies with mounts for detachable lenses
    - Lenses for those cameras
    - Any relevant accessories for those camera systems, including but not limited
    to: external flash units, memory cards, microdrives, lens filters/hoods,
    camera bags/cases, digital rangefinder camera/lens/accessory maintenance,
    tripods and monopods.

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital rangefinder photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital rangefinder photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the discussion
    remains within the context of digital rangefinder photography
    - Discussion of digital backs for film rangefinder bodies

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of pure film cameras
    - Discussion of digital point-and-shoot, ZLR, SLR, or any other non-rangefinder
    digital cameras
    - Discussion of any cameras with non-detachable lenses
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    digital rangefinder photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital SLR brands or systems are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.rangefinder, please use standard Usenet
    netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions
    when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the
    significant portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that
    specify who wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or
    less. To ensure readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line
    lengths to the Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.slr-systems, is an open forum for the
    discussion of digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems.

    These systems consist of:

    - Digital SLR (DSLR) camera bodies with mounts for detachable lenses
    - Lenses for those cameras

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Discussion of any relevant accessories for those camera systems, including
    but not limited to: external flash units, memory cards, microdrives, lens
    filters/hoods, camera bags/cases, DSLR camera/lens/accessory maintenance,
    tripods and monopods
    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of DSLR photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of DSLR photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the discussion
    remains within the context of DSLR photography
    - Discussion of digital backs for film SLR bodies

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of pure film cameras
    - Discussion of digital point-and-shoot, ZLR, rangefinder, or any other non-SLR
    digital cameras
    - Discussion of any cameras with non-detachable lenses
    - Discussion of digital rangefinders
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    DSLR photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital SLR brands or systems are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.slr-systems, please use standard Usenet
    netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions
    when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the
    significant portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that
    specify who wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or
    less. To ensure readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line
    lengths to the Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.zlr

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.zlr, is an open forum for the discussion of
    high-end digital cameras with fixed zoom lenses and full manual controls, and
    using those cameras. These cameras are frequently referred to as digital ZLR
    (zoom lens reflex) cameras or SLR-like digital cameras, and typically have an
    SLR-like appearance due to the bulk of the lens rather than the relatively more
    compact shape of most point-and-shoot digital cameras.

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Any relevant accessories for digital ZLR cameras, such as: external flash
    units, add-on lens elements, memory cards, microdrives, lens filters/hoods,
    camera bags/cases, digital ZLR maintenance, tripods and monopods.
    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital ZLR photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital ZLR photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the
    discussion remains within the context of digital ZLR photography.

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of "point and shoot" digital cameras with no manual controls
    - Discussion of any film cameras
    - Discussion of cameras with mounts for detachable lenses
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    digital ZLR photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital camera brands or models are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.zlr, please use standard Usenet netiquette.
    Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions when replying
    to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the significant
    portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that specify who
    wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or less. To ensure
    readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line lengths to the
    Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    HOW TO VOTE:

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    PLEASE, do not send the entire CFV back to me as this mail is archived.

    Mark the ballot and then MAIL it to: <>
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    If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three
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    ======= BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything BEFORE this line =======
    |----------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Official CFV Name: rec.photo.digital Reorg
    | Usenet Voting Ballot [RPDR-79-1] (Do not remove this line!)
    |----------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.
    | Established Usenet handles are also acceptable. Place ONLY your name
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    | newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):
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    | --------- ---------
    | [ ] rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
    | [ ] rec.photo.digital.rangefinder
    | [ ] rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
    | [ ] rec.photo.digital.zlr
    |
    |----------------------------------------------------------------------
    ======= END OF BALLOT: Delete everything AFTER this line ==============


    IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:

    Standard Guidelines for voting apply. Only one vote per person, no
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    the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous, forwarded, or proxy votes
    are not valid. Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered
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    Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may
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    acknowledgment of your vote within three days, contact the votetaker
    about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote
    is registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of
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    DO NOT redistribute this CFV in any manner whatsoever. The purpose of
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    Distribution of pre-marked or otherwise modified copies of this CFV is
    generally considered voting fraud and should be reported immediately to
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    DISTRIBUTION:

    The only official sources for copies of this CFV are the locations listed
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    This CFV has been posted to the following newsgroups:

    news.announce.newgroups
    news.groups
    alt.comp.periphs.dcameras
    rec.photo.digital
    rec.photo.equipment.35mm
     
    Bill Aten, Sep 29, 2004
    #73
  14. Thad

    Dave Guest

    Re: CFV: rec.photo.digital reorganization

    Bill Aten wrote:
    > FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
    > unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
    > unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.rangefinder
    > unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
    > unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.zlr
    >



    Vote early and vote often ;)
     
    Dave, Sep 30, 2004
    #74
  15. Thad

    Bill Aten Guest

    2nd CFV: rec.photo.digital reorganization

    LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.rangefinder
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.zlr

    Newsgroups lines:
    rec.photo.digital.point+shoot Point-and-shoot digital cameras.
    rec.photo.digital.rangefinder Digital rangefinder camera systems.
    rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems.
    rec.photo.digital.zlr Digital cameras w/ fixed zoom lenses & manual controls.

    Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 20 Oct 2004.

    This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about
    the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

    Proponent: Alan Browne <>
    Proponent: William Drew <>
    Proponent: Thaddeus Lipshitz <>
    Proponent: Alexis Pagonis <>
    Proponent: Rose Parchen <>
    Proponent: David J Taylor <>
    Votetaker: Bill Aten <>

    RATIONALE: all groups

    The growth of digital photography has caused the only Big-8 digital photography
    newsgroup (rec.photo.digital) to become overwhelmed with an enormous volume of
    posts. RPD was created to discuss all general aspects of digital photography -
    including cameras, scanners, printers, software, and other related topics. More
    and more people are using digital cameras, and learning about photography. The
    modern digital camera has evolved into a family of different flavors. Different
    tools have different needs. Four new groups are proposed to offer digital
    photographers technology-specific forums which allow users to concentrate on
    what best meets their current needs.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.point+shoot

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of point-and-shoot digital cameras, accessories for those
    cameras, and using those cameras, separate from digital SLR, digital ZLR, and
    digital rangefinder cameras. Point-and-shoot digicams are more popular then
    ever. Image quality from these generally compact cameras is beginning to rival
    that of their larger digital SLR and digital ZLR cousins. It makes sense to
    create a new newsgroup for the largest segment of the digital camera
    population: the point-and-shoot digicams.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.rangefinder

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of digital rangefinder cameras, lenses and accessories for
    those cameras, and using those cameras, separate from digital SLR, digital ZLR,
    and digital point-and shoot cameras. Digital rangefinders are currently in
    development by camera manufacturers such as Leica, Voigtlander, Contax, and
    Epson. Upon availability, these digital bodies will offer a viable digital
    solution for owners of Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander and other quality lenses for
    rangefinders. There is already a good level of enthusiasm and discussion
    surrounding this unique category of digital cameras.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems, separate
    from film SLR cameras and non-SLR digital cameras. Digital SLR photography is
    growing at an amazing rate. It is time to create a Big-8 newsgroup for digital
    SLR enthusiasts. Rec.photo.digital was created before the digital photography
    revolution peaked. At that time, digital SLR camera systems were not easily
    obtainable by the average person, due to high cost and limited availability.
    Due to advances in the past year alone by some of the major camera
    manufacturers, a person can find digital SLR camera equipment for sale at
    almost every shopping mall, strip mall, or electronics store on earth, at very
    reasonable prices.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.zlr

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of high-end digital cameras with zoom lenses and full manual
    controls, accessories for those cameras, and using those cameras, separate from
    digital SLR cameras, digital rangefinders and digital point-and-shoot cameras.
    These cameras are frequently referred to as digital ZLR (zoom lens reflex)
    cameras or SLR-like digital cameras, and typically have an SLR-like appearance
    due to the bulk of the lens rather than the relatively more compact shape of
    most point-and-shoot cameras. The digital ZLR is emerging as the camera of
    choice for many people that have graduated from basic point-and-shoot digital
    cameras, but don't need the added bulk and weight of a comparably equipped
    digital SLR.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.point+shoot

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.point+shoot, is an open forum for the
    discussion of point-and-shoot digital cameras, and using those cameras.

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Any relevant accessories for point-and-shoot digital cameras, such as: add-on
    lens elements, memory cards, microdrives, camera bags/cases, and camera
    maintenance.
    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of point-and-shoot digital photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of point-and-shoot digital photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the discussion
    remains within the context of point-and-shoot digital photography

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of digital SLR, ZLR, rangefinder, or other digital cameras with
    manual controls
    - Discussion of any film cameras
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    point-and-shoot digital photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital camera brands or models are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.point+shoot, please use standard Usenet
    netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions
    when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the
    significant portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that
    specify who wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or
    less. To ensure readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line
    lengths to the Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.rangefinder

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.rangefinder, is an open forum for the
    discussion of digital rangefinder camera systems.

    These systems consist of:

    - Digital rangefinder camera bodies with mounts for detachable lenses
    - Lenses for those cameras
    - Any relevant accessories for those camera systems, including but not limited
    to: external flash units, memory cards, microdrives, lens filters/hoods,
    camera bags/cases, digital rangefinder camera/lens/accessory maintenance,
    tripods and monopods.

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital rangefinder photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital rangefinder photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the discussion
    remains within the context of digital rangefinder photography
    - Discussion of digital backs for film rangefinder bodies

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of pure film cameras
    - Discussion of digital point-and-shoot, ZLR, SLR, or any other non-rangefinder
    digital cameras
    - Discussion of any cameras with non-detachable lenses
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    digital rangefinder photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital SLR brands or systems are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.rangefinder, please use standard Usenet
    netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions
    when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the
    significant portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that
    specify who wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or
    less. To ensure readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line
    lengths to the Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.slr-systems, is an open forum for the
    discussion of digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems.

    These systems consist of:

    - Digital SLR (DSLR) camera bodies with mounts for detachable lenses
    - Lenses for those cameras

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Discussion of any relevant accessories for those camera systems, including
    but not limited to: external flash units, memory cards, microdrives, lens
    filters/hoods, camera bags/cases, DSLR camera/lens/accessory maintenance,
    tripods and monopods
    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of DSLR photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of DSLR photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the discussion
    remains within the context of DSLR photography
    - Discussion of digital backs for film SLR bodies

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of pure film cameras
    - Discussion of digital point-and-shoot, ZLR, rangefinder, or any other non-SLR
    digital cameras
    - Discussion of any cameras with non-detachable lenses
    - Discussion of digital rangefinders
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    DSLR photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital SLR brands or systems are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.slr-systems, please use standard Usenet
    netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions
    when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the
    significant portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that
    specify who wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or
    less. To ensure readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line
    lengths to the Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.zlr

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.zlr, is an open forum for the discussion of
    high-end digital cameras with fixed zoom lenses and full manual controls, and
    using those cameras. These cameras are frequently referred to as digital ZLR
    (zoom lens reflex) cameras or SLR-like digital cameras, and typically have an
    SLR-like appearance due to the bulk of the lens rather than the relatively more
    compact shape of most point-and-shoot digital cameras.

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Any relevant accessories for digital ZLR cameras, such as: external flash
    units, add-on lens elements, memory cards, microdrives, lens filters/hoods,
    camera bags/cases, digital ZLR maintenance, tripods and monopods.
    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital ZLR photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital ZLR photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the
    discussion remains within the context of digital ZLR photography.

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of "point and shoot" digital cameras with no manual controls
    - Discussion of any film cameras
    - Discussion of cameras with mounts for detachable lenses
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    digital ZLR photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital camera brands or models are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.zlr, please use standard Usenet netiquette.
    Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions when replying
    to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the significant
    portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that specify who
    wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or less. To ensure
    readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line lengths to the
    Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    HOW TO VOTE:

    Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after
    the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines. Don't worry about
    the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
    reply inserts.

    PLEASE, do not send the entire CFV back to me as this mail is archived.

    Mark the ballot and then MAIL it to: <>
    Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.

    In order to properly record your vote, please provide your REAL NAME
    (or established Usenet handle) and indicate your desired vote in the
    appropriate locations inside the ballot.

    Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:

    [ YES ] example.yes.vote
    [ NO ] example.no.vote
    [ ABSTAIN ] example.abstention
    [ CANCEL ] example.cancellation

    DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot!
    If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.

    If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three
    days, contact the votetaker about the problem. You are responsible
    for reading your ack and making sure your vote is registered correctly.


    ======= BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything BEFORE this line =======
    |----------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Official CFV Name: rec.photo.digital Reorg
    | Usenet Voting Ballot [RPDR-79-2] (Do not remove this line!)
    |----------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected.
    | Established Usenet handles are also acceptable. Place ONLY your name
    | (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other information;
    | ONLY your name) directly after the colon in "Voter name:" on the
    | following line.
    |----------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Voter name:
    |----------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
    | newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):
    |
    | Your Vote Newsgroup
    | --------- ---------
    | [ ] rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
    | [ ] rec.photo.digital.rangefinder
    | [ ] rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
    | [ ] rec.photo.digital.zlr
    |
    |----------------------------------------------------------------------
    ======= END OF BALLOT: Delete everything AFTER this line ==============


    IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:

    Standard Guidelines for voting apply. Only one vote per person, no
    more than one vote per account. Votes must be mailed directly from
    the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous, forwarded, or proxy votes
    are not valid. Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered
    to be anonymous votes.

    Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may
    mean that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an
    acknowledgment of your vote within three days, contact the votetaker
    about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote
    is registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of
    the most recent valid vote. Names, addresses, and votes of all voters
    will be published in the final voting results post.

    DO NOT redistribute this CFV in any manner whatsoever. The purpose of
    a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of persons who would
    read a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from disinterested parties
    defeats this purpose. Only the votetaker, the news.announce.newgroups
    moderator, and the proponent (if specifically authorized by the votetaker)
    are permitted to distribute copies of this CFV.

    Distribution of pre-marked or otherwise modified copies of this CFV is
    generally considered voting fraud and should be reported immediately to
    the votetaker or the UVV <>. In cases where voting fraud
    is determined to have occurred, it is standard operating procedure to
    delete ALL votes submitted by the violator. When in doubt, ask the
    votetaker.

    DISTRIBUTION:

    The only official sources for copies of this CFV are the locations listed
    below, the UVV web site at http://www.uvv.org/, and the votetaker's e-mail
    CFV server which can be reached at <>.

    This CFV has been posted to the following newsgroups:

    news.announce.newgroups
    news.groups
    alt.comp.periphs.dcameras
    rec.photo.digital
    rec.photo.equipment.35mm

    rec.photo.digital Reorg - Ack Bounce List
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Because the Vote Ack email bounced, the email addresses and associated
    ballots listed below are considered invalid and will not be counted in the
    final result. Ballots must be submitted from a valid and verifyable email
    address in order to be processed. The individuals listed below will need
    to revote from a valid email address prior to the poll closing in order to
    correct this problem.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    andyb [at] zocalo.uk.com Andy Blanchard
    jadams [at] thepub.co.za Joanna Adams
    jhoppyc [at] westnet.com.invalid John Clarke

    --
    Bill Aten, UVV <>
     
    Bill Aten, Oct 11, 2004
    #75
  16. Thad

    Bill Aten Guest

    RESULT: rec.photo.digital reorganization all groups pass

    RESULT
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.point+shoot passes 348:23
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.rangefinder passes 336:34
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.slr-systems passes 358:21
    unmoderated group rec.photo.digital.zlr passes 342:30

    Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 20 Oct 2004.

    This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the
    proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

    Proponent: Alan Browne <>
    Proponent: William Drew <>
    Proponent: Thaddeus Lipshitz <>
    Proponent: Alexis Pagonis <>
    Proponent: Rose Parchen <>
    Proponent: David J Taylor <>
    Votetaker: Bill Aten <>

    There were 382 valid YES/NO votes submitted during the voting period. Each
    proposed newsgroup, in order to pass, must have at least 2/3 YES votes and at
    least 100 more YES than NO votes. The results are as follows:

    rec.photo.digital Reorg results - 382 valid (YES & NO) votes

    Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
    ---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
    348 23 : Yes Yes : Yes : rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
    336 34 : Yes Yes : Yes : rec.photo.digital.rangefinder
    358 21 : Yes Yes : Yes : rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
    342 30 : Yes Yes : Yes : rec.photo.digital.zlr
    8 invalid votes

    All parts of the proposal passed.

    There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted. If no
    serious and significant allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
    moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the newsgroups shortly
    thereafter.

    The remainder of the RESULT contains:
    Newsgroups Lines
    Rationale
    Charters
    Final Voting Acknowledgements

    NEWSGROUPS LINES:
    rec.photo.digital.point+shoot Point-and-shoot digital cameras.
    rec.photo.digital.rangefinder Digital rangefinder camera systems.
    rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems.
    rec.photo.digital.zlr Digital cameras w/ fixed zoom lenses & manual controls.

    RATIONALE: all groups

    The growth of digital photography has caused the only Big-8 digital photography
    newsgroup (rec.photo.digital) to become overwhelmed with an enormous volume of
    posts. RPD was created to discuss all general aspects of digital photography -
    including cameras, scanners, printers, software, and other related topics. More
    and more people are using digital cameras, and learning about photography. The
    modern digital camera has evolved into a family of different flavors. Different
    tools have different needs. Four new groups are proposed to offer digital
    photographers technology-specific forums which allow users to concentrate on
    what best meets their current needs.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.point+shoot

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of point-and-shoot digital cameras, accessories for those
    cameras, and using those cameras, separate from digital SLR, digital ZLR, and
    digital rangefinder cameras. Point-and-shoot digicams are more popular then
    ever. Image quality from these generally compact cameras is beginning to rival
    that of their larger digital SLR and digital ZLR cousins. It makes sense to
    create a new newsgroup for the largest segment of the digital camera
    population: the point-and-shoot digicams.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.rangefinder

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of digital rangefinder cameras, lenses and accessories for
    those cameras, and using those cameras, separate from digital SLR, digital ZLR,
    and digital point-and shoot cameras. Digital rangefinders are currently in
    development by camera manufacturers such as Leica, Voigtlander, Contax, and
    Epson. Upon availability, these digital bodies will offer a viable digital
    solution for owners of Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander and other quality lenses for
    rangefinders. There is already a good level of enthusiasm and discussion
    surrounding this unique category of digital cameras.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems, separate
    from film SLR cameras and non-SLR digital cameras. Digital SLR photography is
    growing at an amazing rate. It is time to create a Big-8 newsgroup for digital
    SLR enthusiasts. Rec.photo.digital was created before the digital photography
    revolution peaked. At that time, digital SLR camera systems were not easily
    obtainable by the average person, due to high cost and limited availability.
    Due to advances in the past year alone by some of the major camera
    manufacturers, a person can find digital SLR camera equipment for sale at
    almost every shopping mall, strip mall, or electronics store on earth, at very
    reasonable prices.

    RATIONALE: rec.photo.digital.zlr

    The proposed newsgroup should be created because it will provide an open forum
    for the discussion of high-end digital cameras with zoom lenses and full manual
    controls, accessories for those cameras, and using those cameras, separate from
    digital SLR cameras, digital rangefinders and digital point-and-shoot cameras.
    These cameras are frequently referred to as digital ZLR (zoom lens reflex)
    cameras or SLR-like digital cameras, and typically have an SLR-like appearance
    due to the bulk of the lens rather than the relatively more compact shape of
    most point-and-shoot cameras. The digital ZLR is emerging as the camera of
    choice for many people that have graduated from basic point-and-shoot digital
    cameras, but don't need the added bulk and weight of a comparably equipped
    digital SLR.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.point+shoot

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.point+shoot, is an open forum for the
    discussion of point-and-shoot digital cameras, and using those cameras.

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Any relevant accessories for point-and-shoot digital cameras, such as: add-on
    lens elements, memory cards, microdrives, camera bags/cases, and camera
    maintenance.
    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of point-and-shoot digital photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of point-and-shoot digital photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the discussion
    remains within the context of point-and-shoot digital photography

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of digital SLR, ZLR, rangefinder, or other digital cameras with
    manual controls
    - Discussion of any film cameras
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    point-and-shoot digital photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital camera brands or models are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.point+shoot, please use standard Usenet
    netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions
    when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the
    significant portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that
    specify who wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or
    less. To ensure readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line
    lengths to the Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.rangefinder

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.rangefinder, is an open forum for the
    discussion of digital rangefinder camera systems.

    These systems consist of:

    - Digital rangefinder camera bodies with mounts for detachable lenses
    - Lenses for those cameras
    - Any relevant accessories for those camera systems, including but not limited
    to: external flash units, memory cards, microdrives, lens filters/hoods,
    camera bags/cases, digital rangefinder camera/lens/accessory maintenance,
    tripods and monopods.

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital rangefinder photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital rangefinder photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the discussion
    remains within the context of digital rangefinder photography
    - Discussion of digital backs for film rangefinder bodies

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of pure film cameras
    - Discussion of digital point-and-shoot, ZLR, SLR, or any other non-rangefinder
    digital cameras
    - Discussion of any cameras with non-detachable lenses
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    digital rangefinder photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital SLR brands or systems are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.rangefinder, please use standard Usenet
    netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions
    when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the
    significant portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that
    specify who wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or
    less. To ensure readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line
    lengths to the Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.slr-systems, is an open forum for the
    discussion of digital SLR (single lens reflex) camera systems.

    These systems consist of:

    - Digital SLR (DSLR) camera bodies with mounts for detachable lenses
    - Lenses for those cameras

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Discussion of any relevant accessories for those camera systems, including
    but not limited to: external flash units, memory cards, microdrives, lens
    filters/hoods, camera bags/cases, DSLR camera/lens/accessory maintenance,
    tripods and monopods
    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of DSLR photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of DSLR photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the discussion
    remains within the context of DSLR photography
    - Discussion of digital backs for film SLR bodies

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of pure film cameras
    - Discussion of digital point-and-shoot, ZLR, rangefinder, or any other non-SLR
    digital cameras
    - Discussion of any cameras with non-detachable lenses
    - Discussion of digital rangefinders
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    DSLR photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital SLR brands or systems are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.slr-systems, please use standard Usenet
    netiquette. Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions
    when replying to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the
    significant portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that
    specify who wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or
    less. To ensure readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line
    lengths to the Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    CHARTER: rec.photo.digital.zlr

    This newsgroup, rec.photo.digital.zlr, is an open forum for the discussion of
    high-end digital cameras with fixed zoom lenses and full manual controls, and
    using those cameras. These cameras are frequently referred to as digital ZLR
    (zoom lens reflex) cameras or SLR-like digital cameras, and typically have an
    SLR-like appearance due to the bulk of the lens rather than the relatively more
    compact shape of most point-and-shoot digital cameras.

    Additional On-Topic Discussion:

    - Any relevant accessories for digital ZLR cameras, such as: external flash
    units, add-on lens elements, memory cards, microdrives, lens filters/hoods,
    camera bags/cases, digital ZLR maintenance, tripods and monopods.
    - Photography techniques, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital ZLR photography
    - Image post-processing, as long as the discussion remains within the context
    of digital ZLR photography
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, as long as the
    discussion remains within the context of digital ZLR photography.

    What Is Considered Off-Topic:

    - Discussion of "point and shoot" digital cameras with no manual controls
    - Discussion of any film cameras
    - Discussion of cameras with mounts for detachable lenses
    - Discussion of scanners
    - Discussion of printers
    - Posting links to personal photo galleries or images, not in the context of
    digital ZLR photography

    Posting off-topic should be kept to a minimum. All off-topic posts should be
    prefixed with [OT] or another easily-identifiable prefix in the subject line.
    If a segment of any on topic thread ever becomes clearly off-topic, it is the
    duty of those individuals posting to change the subject line to reflect the
    off-topic change.

    Debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film photography is
    off-topic. Please be polite and try to not steer any conversations in that
    direction. In the event that any segment of any on-topic thread ever becomes
    clearly off-topic by debating the pros and cons of digital photography vs. film
    photography, it is the duty of those individuals posting to change the subject
    line to reflect the off-topic change.

    What Is Considered Inappropriate:

    - Crossposting to any other newsgroup except where the post is of direct
    relevance to each group in the crosspost

    What Is Not Permitted:

    - Posts from mail2news gateways and/or anonymous remailers
    - Flame wars (comparisons between different digital camera brands or models are
    permitted as long as they do not degenerate into personal flames)
    - Signatures with more than 4 lines
    - Exchange and/or discussion of illegal software
    - Personal attacks
    - Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) other than PGP and small binary
    signatures
    - Commercial advertisements:

    This newsgroup explicitly prohibits the posting of advertisements of any kind,
    whether personal, private or commercial, as well as all other promotional
    material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography.

    Auction announcements (Ebay.com and others) are prohibited.

    Posting links to commercial websites with the sole intention of promoting those
    sites is not permitted; links to commercial websites may be posted in the
    context of answering a specific question.

    All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines
    (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents).

    When posting on rec.photo.digital.zlr, please use standard Usenet netiquette.
    Treat other posters with courtesy and follow standard conventions when replying
    to posts. Please trim the posts you reply to, retaining only the significant
    portions in your follow up. Preserve attributions (the bits that specify who
    wrote what in each post) and limit your signature to 4 lines or less. To ensure
    readability, do not use HTML in your posts and limit your line lengths to the
    Usenet standard of 80 characters or less.

    END CHARTER.

    FINAL VOTING ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS:

    rec.photo.digital Reorg - Final Voter List

    NOTE: This is not [to be used as] a mailing list. The email addresses
    are provided only to help verify the validity of the interest poll.

    rec.photo.digital.zlr ------+
    rec.photo.digital.slr-systems -----+|
    rec.photo.digital.rangefinder ----+||
    rec.photo.digital.point+shoot ---+|||
    ||||
    0-cretin-needs [at] bust.com Cretin Needs YYYY
    0rganizer [at] Lionel-Lauer.tk Organizer NNNN
    2tits [at] cairoo.com Darlene Rotisso YYYY
    72027.3605 [at] compuserve.com Robert M. Bailin NNNN
    a.bienvenida [at] ntxnet.com Alfonso Bienvenida YYYY
    aahz [at] pobox.com Aahz YN-N
    aaron [at] PhotoShack.zzn.com Aaron Vagues YYYY
    adelaide-dellar [at] excite.com Adelaide Dellarose YYYY
    agnes.rowland [at] kaxy.com Agnes Rowland YYYY
    alanbrowne [at] aliasimages.com Alan Browne YYYY
    alaskaphoebe [at] excite.com Phoebe Nicholson YYYY
    alejandro [at] servicios.berrom.com Alejandro Fuentes YYYY
    alfredo [at] stromboli.uni.cc Alfredo Stromboli YYYY
    alison.roosevelt [at] bluebottle.com Alison Roosevelt YYYY
    alyssa [at] aussiemail.com.au Alyssa Caprice YYYY
    ambrose.leventhorpe [at] australia.edu Ambrose Leventhorpe YYYY
    anal.princess [at] funky.co.uk Anal Princess YYYY
    anders.svensson [at] worldemail.com Anders Svensson YYYY
    andiesanchez [at] lycos.com Andie Sanchez YYYY
    andrew.cassese [at] nerds.zzn.com Drew Cassese YYYY
    andrew29 [at] littlepinkcloud.com Andrew Haley NNYN
    andyb [at] zocalo.uk.com Andy Blanchard YNY-
    angelo [at] wisa.org.uk Angelo Russo YYYY
    annabelle [at] mbmission.com Annabelle McLaughlin YYYY
    AOtt756 [at] netscape.net Alexander Ott YYYY
    art [at] stromboli.uni.cc Arturo Stromboli YYYY
    ashley [at] netexecutive.com Ashley Sinrod YYYY
    atp [at] aek.com Alexis Pagonis YYYY
    a_junkie_drug_addict [at] 420host.com Rex McGraw YYYY
    bad-ninja [at] taekwondo.co.nz Leon Marshall YYYY
    barbgioberti612 [at] hotmail.com Barb Gioberti YYYY
    bart.c [at] emsrt.org Bart Caplani YYYY
    beaniemack [at] linuxmail.org Lorne Wandell YYYY
    benjamin.goldfarb [at] uwphotographer.net Benjamin Goldfarb YYYY
    betty.swallocks [at] ballerstatus.net betty swallocks YYYY
    betty8743 [at] zahadum.com Elizabeth Kewfi YYYY
    bettyboop [at] celineclub.com Betty Tucker YYYY
    bfrost [at] nyx.net Bonnell Frost YYYY
    bgary [at] zuvio.com Beth Gary YYYY
    BHilton665 [at] aol.com Bill Hilton NNNN
    biology-student [at] hubbardcollege.com Trevor Gisselle YYYY
    black_boxer_briefs [at] yahoo.com Thaddeus Lipshitz Y-YY
    blakelei [at] hotmail.com Sam Blakelei YYYY
    blobster [at] fastmail.com.au Andrew Colquhoun YYYY
    bloodyscott [at] uku.co.uk Scott Keller YYYY
    bo.reagan [at] gorobotics.net Bob O. Reagan YYYY
    bowtie [at] brightdsl.net Steve Young NNNN
    bradley_wolfen [at] yahoo.com Bradley Wolfen YYYY
    brendarose [at] comcarenet.net Brenda Rose Savage YYYY
    bridgetthomasin [at] lycos.com Bridget Thomasin YYYY
    brit [at] findusin.co.uk Brittany Blaire YYYY
    broker [at] stocksplayers.com Sabrina Paterson YYYY
    brougham3 [at] yahoo.com E Brougham NNNN
    bruno [at] stromboli.uni.cc Bruno Stromboli YYYY
    btocher [at] blueyonder.co.uk Baxter Tocher YYYY
    buellrider [at] emailgroups.net Heather Mullahey YYYY
    bunghole53 [at] lycos.com Lucia Vega YYYY
    bwr607 [at] hotmail.com Woodchuck Bill --YY
    c.hampton [at] beaufortweb.org.uk Crystal Hampton YYYY
    camera [at] spyring.com Christopher Tremaine YYYY
    chasm [at] texas.net CHARLES L HAMILTON NNNN
    chloe.scott [at] tigerstadium.net Chloe Scott YYYY
    chonglai_188 [at] hotmail.com Chong Lai YYYY
    cira [at] stromboli.uni.cc Cira Stromboli YYYY
    cmcardle75 [at] yahoo.co.uk Christian McArdle YYYY
    cody_neil [at] excite.com Cody Neil YYYY
    coleman [at] treffpunkt.cc Seb Coleman YYYY
    connor [at] bigone.us Connor Bedlingten YYYY
    copola [at] mail2Pennsylvania.com Simone Copola YYYY
    cordoza [at] ftml.net Mona Cordoza YYYY
    crocodile-dundee [at] ausi.com Edmund Drake YYYY
    Crownfield [at] cox.net Bob Crownfield --Y-
    d.zbornak [at] europe.com Dorothy Zbornak YYYY
    damien [at] marthomachurchbdd.com Damien Scarpelli YYYY
    danni.findlay [at] earthling.net Danni Findlay YYYY
    darrennareid [at] hotmail.com Darren Nareid YYYY
    david-taylor [at] blueyonder.co.uk David J Taylor Y-YY
    dbase [at] jpdatabase.com Rubin Weiskel YYYY
    dd-b [at] dd-b.net David Dyer-Bennet YNY-
    deadlyevilbastard [at] nctta.org J.W. Park YYYY
    demetrius.s [at] zuvio.com Demetrius Stamos YYYY
    denelsbeck [at] hotmail.com Brad Denelsbeck YYYY
    desmondm [at] mail2Barbados.com Desmond Marcel YYYY
    devilwoman [at] zhaowei.net Becky Dodd YYYY
    devvio [at] operamail.com Chris Devvio YYYY
    dharg [at] shaw.ca Duane Hargrave YYYY
    dherzstein [at] juno.com Dave Herzstein YYYY
    dianakokablake [at] hotmail.com Diana Kokablake YYYY
    dodcopman [at] myway.com Brian Tetwiler YYYY
    donna [at] ezc.info Donna Beavie YYYY
    drunkenpeter [at] keg-party.com Peter Lenkraz YYYY
    dvd_giordano [at] yahoo.com David Giordano YYYY
    dylan.g [at] adexec.com Dylan Gabriella YYYY
    e [at] stromboli.uni.cc Elisabetta Stromboli YYYY
    eduardo401 [at] lycos.com Eduardo Ortega YYYY
    edward_ohare [at] yahoo.com edward ohare -NNN
    eggnog71 [at] hotmail.com Dick Drysdale YYYY
    Ekkehard [at] Uthke.de Ekkehard Uthke YYYN
    elena_shavia [at] hotmail.com Elena Shavia YYYY
    eliz7601 [at] excite.com Elizabeth Vance YYYY
    emilybledfast [at] hotmail.com Emily Bledfast YYYY
    enrico [at] stromboli.uni.cc Enrico Stromboli YYYY
    enzo [at] stromboli.uni.cc Enzo Stromboli Senior YYYY
    eugene.tyler [at] howtokillapenguin.com Eugene Tyler YYYY
    evanthony [at] videotron.ca Evann Puskas YYYY
    evj7t8802 [at] sneakemail.com Al Jacobs YYYY
    falk [at] surfy.net Gus Falk YYYY
    fantasia69 [at] tidni.com Vivian Heinfeld YYYY
    fartlover [at] whocutthecheez.com Jessie Miletop YYYY
    fawn [at] jpdatabase.com Fawn Weiskel YYYY
    fdk [at] ibirbal.com Fran Kepidro YYYY
    federline_45 [at] hotmail.com Charlie Federline YYYY
    fila_brasileiros [at] hotmail.com Luiz Vercosa YYYY
    flubber_blubber [at] hotmail.com Jim Cohn YYYY
    fong [at] athenachu.net Hun Fong YYYY
    fort514 [at] mac.com Charles -NY-
    francis-andrew [at] excite.com Francis A. Stanley YYYY
    francrooke [at] netscape.net Fran Crooke YYYY
    frankie [at] stromboli.uni.cc Frankie Stromboli YYYY
    fsheffi1 [at] san.rr.com Frank ess NNYN
    fwbrown [at] bellsouth.net Wayne Brown NNNN
    g [at] stromboli.uni.cc Giorgio Stromboli Y-YY
    gaspar_esperanza_781 [at] hotmail.com Gaspar Esperanza YYYY
    gavin-schirmer [at] excite.com Gavin Schirmer YYYY
    gavone [at] myfolsom.com Harry Gavone YYYY
    GeneBreyer [at] netscape.net Gene Breyer YYYY
    georgesd [at] worldemail.com Georges Diallo YYYY
    gerard [at] BadAssTrumpetPlayer.zzn.com Gerard Bartholomew YYYY
    ghz [at] operamail.com Greg Zucherman YYYY
    gina [at] stromboli.uni.cc Gina Stromboli YYYY
    gioso [at] mail2Taxidermist.com Gioso Renwe YYYY
    gleasonellen [at] yahoo.com Ellen Gleason YYYY
    goblaw [at] zuvio.com Art Goblaw YYYY
    greta [at] BoringMail.com Greta Lamonette YYYY
    gussauros [at] fastimap.com Gus Sauros YYYY
    hagensen [at] mail2Denmark.com Veronika Hagensen YYYY
    hans.sluzeb [at] atlas.cz Hans Sluzeb YYYY
    helen_cooro [at] emailgroups.net Helen Cooro YYYY
    henry.o [at] wigglestick.net Henry Opalidar YYYY
    herman_coolidge [at] lycos.com Herman Coolidge YYYY
    hillary_ardschlock [at] yahoo.com Hillary Ardschlock YYYY
    hn.ii04 [at] nareid.demon.co.uk Helge Nareid N-YN
    hoochdaddy [at] hotmail.com Stanley Norquist YYYY
    hothelen3 [at] lycos.com Helen Willis YYYY
    howielondon [at] lycos.com Howard L. London YYYY
    hugo [at] stromboli.uni.cc Hugo Stromboli YYYY
    icw6okl02 [at] sneakemail.com David Harmon YNNN
    IsaacRynlds9 [at] netscape.net Isaac Reynolds YYYY
    isabel.madeira [at] temenos.net Isabel Madeira YYYY
    ishikawa [at] norika-fujiwara.com Jan Ishikawa YYYY
    j.duff [at] uku.co.uk Jackie Duff YYYY
    j.v.ashby [at] rl.ac.uk John Ashby YYYY
    jabbar69 [at] linuxmail.org Madison Jabbar YYYY
    jackdimosa [at] lycos.com Jack Dimosa YYYY
    jada [at] stromboli.uni.cc Jada Stromboli -YYY
    jarmstrong54 [at] excite.com Jasmine Armstrong YYYY
    jarredsmyth [at] lycos.com Jarred Smyth YYYY
    jasonlerner8 [at] hotmail.com Jason Lerner YYYY
    jdg [at] diogenes.sacramento.ca.us John David Galt YYYY
    jeanhofstra [at] hotmail.com Jean Hofstra YYYY
    jek2 [at] canada.com James Earl King YYYY
    jeremy [at] exit109.com Jeremy Nixon Y-Y-
    jeromehumphrey [at] mail2Studio54.com Jerome Humphrey YYYY
    jesp [at] hotvoice.com Eugenio Sanchez YYYY
    jim.silverton [at] starpower.net James Silverton -YYY
    jiml [at] ti.com Jim Lancaster YYYY
    jlavadonis [at] excite.com Jo Lavadonis YYYY
    jnshaw [at] earthlink.net Jerry Shaw YYYY
    joe [at] jolomo.net Joe Morris YYYY
    joey [at] stromboli.uni.cc Joey Stromboli YYYY
    john [at] waterfoot.net John Bean -NNN
    johnforbes [at] strompost.biz John Forbes YYYY
    jon.maspeth [at] akss.net Jon Maspeth YYYY
    josh [at] posh.as Josh Crassdale YYYY
    josiebambina [at] vietnam.com Josie Lauer YYYY
    jpmcw [at] comcast.net John McWilliams YNY-
    juannelasa [at] lycos.com Juan Vega YYYY
    juliagermaine_8 [at] hotmail.com Julia Germaine YYYY
    jungle-bitch [at] operamail.com Jim Braeden YYYY
    junior [at] stromboli.uni.cc Enzo Stromboli Junior YYYY
    katholi [at] bellsouth.net Ann Katholi YYYY
    kenadambeyer [at] hotmail.com Ken Adam Beyer YYYY
    kendrick [at] uku.co.uk Kendrick Bancroft YYYY
    kewfi [at] zahadum.com J. Kewfi YYYY
    keyes [at] gotomy.com Jane Ellen Keyes YYYY
    kiko [at] amuro.net Kiko Miladoo YYYY
    korminnosa [at] netscape.net Rosamarianna Korminnosa YYYY
    kowallek [at] iglou.com Dennis Kowallek Y---
    kristenr [at] the-quickest.com Kristen Rosdin YYYY
    kurtworth [at] hotmail.com Kurt Worth YYYY
    kvncrb [at] yahoo.com Kevin Crab YYYY
    lambert-cosina5 [at] excite.com Lambert Cosina YYYY
    lara_yolanda1 [at] hotmail.com Lara Yolanda YYYY
    laura.k [at] girl-punk.net Laura Kernbaum YYYY
    lauraroscoe [at] excite.com Laura Roscoe YYYY
    lavernewhitehorse [at] lycos.com Laverne Whitehorse YYYY
    lbnzco402 [at] sneakemail.com Gerald Tobin YYYY
    lee.ann.broderick [at] operamail.com Lee Ann Broderick YYYY
    leefong493 [at] hotmail.com Lee Fong YYYY
    leicarose [at] yahoo.com Rose Parchen YYYY
    leo [at] stromboli.uni.cc Leo Stromboli YYYY
    leroy.j [at] atlas.cz Leroy Jolicoeur YYYY
    leyla_gaines [at] excite.com Leyla Gaines YYYY
    lino [at] stromboli.uni.cc Lino Stromboli YYYY
    Lisa091704 [at] lisahorton.net Lisa Horton YNYN
    luigiferron [at] letterboxes.org Luigi Ferron YYYY
    madison_monroe [at] lycos.com Madison Monroe YYYY
    mail_dave_christonal [at] hotmail.com Dave Christonal YYYY
    marco [at] stromboli.uni.cc Marco Stromboli YYYY
    maria.pane [at] email.it Maria Pane YYYY
    mario [at] stromboli.uni.cc Mario Stromboli YYYY
    marto908 [at] hotmail.com Francesco Marto YYYY
    martyhoeneg [at] mail2Wisconsin.com Marty Hoeneg YYYY
    marty_chang_881 [at] hotmail.com Marty Chang YYYY
    mason.g [at] uku.co.uk Graham L. Mason YYYY
    mason.t [at] uku.co.uk Tia C. Mason YYYY
    mauricepugot [at] netscape.net Maurice Pugot YYYY
    mauro [at] stromboli.uni.cc Mauro Stromboli YYYY
    mcgeesusan [at] yahoo.com Susan McGee YYYY
    mdranch [at] snip.net Matthew Dranchak YYYY
    melinda [at] mail2cute.com melinda colton YYYY
    michal [at] rosa.id.au Michal Rosa --YY
    mick.kolborg [at] zuvio.com Mick Kolborg YYYY
    mike.boones [at] carbono-gamez.zzn.com Mike Boones YYYY
    milagros_carla [at] yahoo.com Carla Milagros YYYY
    mildredmohen [at] zuvio.com Mildred Mohen YYYY
    mildred_ursula [at] hotmail.com Mildred Ursula YYYY
    miliff [at] qnet.com Mary Shafer NNNN
    miroslav [at] mail2Croatia.com Miroslav Vjeko YYYY
    misterbertarthur [at] excite.com Mr. Bert Arthur YYYY
    mohawk [at] travelpunk.com Kellie Mackon YYYY
    mona [at] stromboli.uni.cc Mona Stromboli YYYY
    montague_cecil [at] hotmail.com Cecil Montague YYYY
    moviebuff [at] pulp-fiction.com Julie Casamiranda YYYY
    mtj [at] moped2.org Monica T Jefferson YYYY
    natmuir [at] mail2dotcom.com Natalie Muir YYYY
    nc0o [at] yahoo.com Thomas Hise NNNN
    neofreudian [at] zuvio.com Yuri Drekov YYYY
    niles.giorno [at] surfy.net Niles Giorno YYYY
    nobertoalcazar [at] lycos.com Noberto Alcazar YYYY
    nop [at] alt.net Lionel -NY-
    normandine [at] uku.co.uk Della Normandine YYYY
    NylundRos [at] netscape.net R.M. Nylund YYYY
    obr [at] obor.or.id Omar Raspell YYYY
    ogoense.net [at] verizon.net Rebecca Ore NNYN
    okuclfn02 [at] sneakemail.com George Bideko YYYY
    olgan [at] uku.co.uk Olga Nevski YYYY
    olivercamhelm [at] xsmail.com Oliver Camheld YYYY
    oliverjackson [at] zuvio.com Oliver Jackson YYYY
    olivia [at] stromboli.uni.cc Olivia Stromboli YYYY
    ortiz.eva [at] hispaniconline.com Eva Ortiz YYYY
    pack-news [at] rattus.net Bruce Murphy NNNN
    pacman [at] wildcats.ky Hank W. Shenkman YYYY
    paco.madeira [at] temenos.net Paco Madeira YYYY
    paigemcknz [at] yahoo.com Paige Mackenzie YYYY
    pam.laurentine [at] australia.edu Pamela Laurentine YYYY
    pan [at] syix.com Pan YYYY
    pattyset [at] yahoo.com Patricia Cockburn YYYY
    penelope [at] spyring.com Penelope Tremaine YYYY
    pete [at] fenelon.com Pete Fenelon NNNN
    petecaputo88 [at] hotmail.com Pete Caputo YYYY
    phishfreak [at] ngaming.co.uk Lou White YYYY
    photographystudent [at] DocumentsOnLine.zzn.com Doug Ackman YYYY
    phyllis_evans_903 [at] hotmail.com Phyllis Evans YYYY
    pierce_winston [at] yahoo.com Pierce Winston YYYY
    pierre [at] WhatEmail.com Pierre Lamonette YYYY
    plouse [at] canada.com Diana Eva Plouse YYYY
    Polarhound [at] comcast.net Polarhound YYYY
    portilla848 [at] hotmail.com Javier Portilla YYYY
    pringlechips [at] graffiti.net Helen Damaris YYYY
    psmyth [at] gmx.net Peter Smyth NNNN
    puppyloverpsychobitch [at] yahoo.com Allister Crawthorne YYYY
    pwhb1ei02 [at] sneakemail.com George Kerby YYYY
    q4jlqdl02 [at] sneakemail.com Sherry Hitchcock YYYY
    quakergreg [at] netscape.net Greg Quaker YYYY
    quincy.fuscienne [at] australia.edu Quincy Fuscienne YYYY
    rachaelsheen [at] yahoo.com Rachael Sheen YYYY
    ray_dominick [at] yahoo.com Ray Dominick YYYY
    rcblot [at] yahoo.com Richard Cockburn YYYY
    renaldogrieves [at] operamail.com Renaldo Grieves YYYY
    ricecake_2004 [at] graffiti.net Pauletta Rice YYYY
    rick [at] bcm.tmc.edu Richard Miller NNYN
    rico [at] piss2peace.zzn.com Rico Estos YYYY
    ricoso [at] DIGITALREBELS.zzn.com Ricoso Diaz YYYY
    rita.rhodes [at] operamail.com Rita Rhodes YYYY
    rivette [at] canada.com Jacques Rivette YYYY
    rixjagj02 [at] sneakemail.com Terry Quayle YYYY
    rob [at] stromboli.uni.cc Roberto Stromboli YYYY
    robert.mcclenon [at] verizon.net Robert McClenon YNY-
    rodulbrecht [at] hotmail.com Roderick Ulbrecht YYYY
    ronald.lutheran [at] uku.co.uk Ronald Lutheran YYYY
    rosa [at] stromboli.uni.cc Rosa Stromboli YYYY
    rosario [at] stromboli.uni.cc Rosario Stromboli YYYY
    RSxSc [at] netscape.net Vigo Schrempf YYYY
    ru.igarashi [at] usask.ca ru igarashi Y-N-
    rudykarp [at] worldemail.com Rudy Karp YYYY
    rw3k1ja02 [at] sneakemail.com Marie Tobin YYYY
    RWss313 [at] netscape.net Ronald Weiss YYYY
    rwurth [at] att.net R. Wurth NNNN
    samuel [at] ezc.info Samuel Beavie YYYY
    santa [at] stromboli.uni.cc Santa Stromboli YYYY
    scooby69 [at] surfy.net Martina Garcia YYYY
    scottie_reilly [at] hotmail.com Scottie Reilly YYYY
    sean.monaghan [at] scenta.co.uk Sean Monaghan YYYY
    seinford [at] hotmail.com Edgar Seinford YYYY
    serpent [at] mail2beast.com Bard Roman YYYY
    sfitz007 [at] bestweb.net Scotty Fitzgerald YYYY
    shane.dunn [at] learning.ie Shane Dunn YYYY
    simonwellington [at] imap.cc Simon Wellington YYYY
    skye [at] lokuramonumental.zzn.com Jed Skye YYYY
    snider [at] blooto.com Jefferson Snider YYYY
    spaddicake [at] canada.com Michelo Spadafora YYYY
    spbaginski [at] hotmail.com Steve Baginski --YY
    speedyjoey [at] the-quickest.com Joseph Kaleigh YYYY
    spigolannospam [at] hotmail.com Paolo YYYY
    squid [at] panix.com Yeoh Yiu NNNN
    staceymcmanus192 [at] hotmail.com Stacey McManus YYYY
    staci_hotchmuller [at] hotmail.com Staci Hotchmuller YYYY
    stainles [at] realtime.net Dwight Brown NNNN
    stovelli.michael [at] swatvalley.com Michael Stovelli YYYY
    stratfore [at] evg1977.zzn.com Keith Stratfore YYYY
    sue.s [at] briercrest.com Sue Spadafora YYYY
    sunbrockholmes [at] MoonFeather.zzn.com Brock Holmes YYYY
    suomi [at] zuvio.com Katrina Suomi YYYY
    susan.welchel [at] bigfoot.com Susan Welchel YYYY
    susieruthers [at] hotmail.com Susie Ruthers YYYY
    svetlana [at] uku.co.uk Svetlana Nevski YYYY
    tahdem [at] excite.com Tariq Ahdem YYYY
    tedsavage [at] comcarenet.net Ted Robert Savage YYYY
    terese.beliard [at] graffiti.net terese beliard YYYY
    terry_pidduck [at] bluewin.ch Terry Pidduck YYYY
    thechickenofthesea [at] lycos.com Felix Erskine YYYY
    ThLws285 [at] netscape.net Theo Lewis YYYY
    thorr [at] massive.as Nathan Thorr YYYY
    thurmand31 [at] excite.com Dana Thurman YYYY
    timbusfield [at] netscape.net Timothy Busfield YYYY
    tingrinfan [at] comcast.net Sam Seiber YYYY
    tony [at] stromboli.uni.cc Tony Stromboli YYYY
    torriekurtis [at] lycos.com Torrie Kurtis YYYY
    tskirvin [at] killfile.org Tim Skirvin -N-N
    tso [at] leehom.net Tso Chin YYYY
    ttwilli [at] excite.com Taylor Williamson YYYY
    turtle.humper [at] funky.co.uk Daniel Fulke YYYY
    ulyssespaige [at] lycos.com Ulysses Paige YYYY
    unclewallace [at] graffiti.net Wallace Lugo YYYY
    v28strlw [at] hotmail.com Angus Barclay YYYY
    vacconi_brock [at] mail2Taurus.com Brock Vacconi YYYY
    val_2004 [at] buffalo.com Val Pascal YYYY
    van.ette [at] inter.nl.net Robert-Jan van Ette YYYY
    varossieau [at] mail2Netherlands.com Lukas Varossieau YYYY
    verne [at] jamaicans.com Pedro Verne YYYY
    victoria [at] internetdrive.com Victoria Gambini YYYY
    victoriamurray [at] canada.com Victoria Murray YYYY
    vincenzo [at] stromboli.uni.cc Vincenzo Stromboli YYYY
    vinosere [at] yahoo.com Greg Vinosere YYYY
    virgo_guy002 [at] yahoo.com George Floin YYYY
    visionarydude [at] lycos.com Glenn Halford YYYY
    vitali [at] firstpobox.com Anthony Vitali YYYY
    vitasder [at] excite.com Doris Vitasder YYYY
    voter [at] clearether.com Michael Benveniste NNYN
    vpdura [at] hiwaay.net Victor P Dura NNNN
    waldosnow [at] tidni.com Waldo Snow YYYY
    walter.botte [at] surfy.net Walter Botte YYYY
    waytoohotttt [at] hotmail.com Elisa Isleta YYYY
    webkatz [at] gmail.com WebKatz NNNN
    wendysurinam [at] lycos.com Wendy Surinam YYYY
    wigger [at] phatpimpclothing.com Phoenix Skyler YYYY
    wilmington [at] Broadcast-Camera-Support-Page.zzn.com Evan Wilmington YYYY
    wilsonmueller [at] canada.com Wilson Mueller YYYY
    wmckcmck [at] sympatico.ca Wayne Smith Y-YY
    woodward [at] buck-rogers.com Alan Woodward YYYY
    wordup [at] kornfreak.com Cliff Harper YYYY
    wutang [at] mail2www.com C Raekwon YYYY
    xavier [at] mail2Oceanographer.com Xavier Monaco YYYY
    xballer [at] ballerstatus.net Dom Reinoso YYYY
    xenoven [at] mail2007.com Sashi Hopeldt YYYY
    ylj6smh02 [at] sneakemail.com Helmut Glover YYYY
    yoshi [at] ninjamonkey.zzn.com Yoshi Shigekazu YYYY
    yukonjack [at] startpage.ca Jack Schmetterling YYYY
    zetalevin [at] zuvio.com Zeta Levin YYYY
    zoophobia [at] linuxmail.org Howard C Johnston YYYY
    zzz.snooze.snore.shit [at] fuckoffmetalwithgayboardsofsweetlove.zzn.com
    Kerry McCurry YYYY

    Invalid Votes
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    ! Ack bounced: User unknown
    macosx [at] wh5.korambayil.com Grant Washington
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    --
    Bill Aten, UVV <>
     
    Bill Aten, Oct 22, 2004
    #76
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