4G LTE vs GPS

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Me, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. Me

    Me Guest

    A battle is developing in the US over "Lightsquared" proposed 4G LTE
    high-speed broadband network interfering with GPS.
    AIUI, Lightsquared claimed that use of the frequencies would interfere
    with around 10% of existing GPS devices. US Government tests indicate
    that it would interfere with 75%.
    Quite remarkable (IMO) that billions of $ can be invested - without
    getting this sorted out properly beforehand. Or was there some
    assumption made by Lightsquared, that the "public good" of their 4G LTE
    network (allowing 260 million people to gain access to high-speed mobile
    broadband - at a price) outweighed the inconvenience to the millions of
    people presently using a GPS service - for free. Now the FAA is
    involved, Lightsquared seem to have a bit of a problem on their hands.
    I hope that if similar potential conflict happens in NZ, we'll get it
    sorted out long before it gets to this stage.


    http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...-disrupts-plane-safety-gear-in-u-s-tests.html
     
    Me, Dec 15, 2011
    #1
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  2. Me

    JohnO Guest

    On Dec 16, 10:00 am, Me <> wrote:
    > A battle is developing in the US over "Lightsquared" proposed 4G LTE
    > high-speed broadband network interfering with GPS.
    > AIUI, Lightsquared claimed that use of the frequencies would interfere
    > with around 10% of existing GPS devices.  US Government tests indicate
    > that it would interfere with 75%.
    > Quite remarkable (IMO) that billions of $ can be invested - without
    > getting this sorted out properly beforehand.  Or was there some
    > assumption made by Lightsquared, that the "public good" of their 4G LTE
    > network (allowing 260 million people to gain access to high-speed mobile
    > broadband - at a price) outweighed the inconvenience to the millions of
    > people presently using a GPS service - for free.  Now the FAA is
    > involved, Lightsquared seem to have a bit of a problem on their hands.
    > I hope that if similar potential conflict happens in NZ, we'll get it
    > sorted out long before it gets to this stage.
    >
    > http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-15/falcone-s-lightsquared-di...


    Interfering with GPS is a safety issue as well as a commercial one so
    I'd say they are in the shit.
     
    JohnO, Dec 16, 2011
    #2
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  3. Me

    Gordon Guest

    On 2011-12-16, JohnO <> wrote:
    > On Dec 16, 10:00 am, Me <> wrote:
    >> A battle is developing in the US over "Lightsquared" proposed 4G LTE
    >> high-speed broadband network interfering with GPS.
    >> AIUI, Lightsquared claimed that use of the frequencies would interfere
    >> with around 10% of existing GPS devices.  US Government tests indicate
    >> that it would interfere with 75%.
    >> Quite remarkable (IMO) that billions of $ can be invested - without
    >> getting this sorted out properly beforehand.  Or was there some
    >> assumption made by Lightsquared, that the "public good" of their 4G LTE
    >> network (allowing 260 million people to gain access to high-speed mobile
    >> broadband - at a price) outweighed the inconvenience to the millions of
    >> people presently using a GPS service - for free.  Now the FAA is
    >> involved, Lightsquared seem to have a bit of a problem on their hands.
    >> I hope that if similar potential conflict happens in NZ, we'll get it
    >> sorted out long before it gets to this stage.
    >>
    >> http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-15/falcone-s-lightsquared-di...

    >
    > Interfering with GPS is a safety issue as well as a commercial one so
    > I'd say they are in the shit.


    So 4G is the weapon of choice for messing up GPS?
     
    Gordon, Dec 16, 2011
    #3
  4. Me

    Richard Guest

    On 12/16/2011 10:00 AM, Me wrote:
    > A battle is developing in the US over "Lightsquared" proposed 4G LTE
    > high-speed broadband network interfering with GPS.
    > AIUI, Lightsquared claimed that use of the frequencies would interfere
    > with around 10% of existing GPS devices. US Government tests indicate
    > that it would interfere with 75%.
    > Quite remarkable (IMO) that billions of $ can be invested - without
    > getting this sorted out properly beforehand. Or was there some
    > assumption made by Lightsquared, that the "public good" of their 4G LTE
    > network (allowing 260 million people to gain access to high-speed mobile
    > broadband - at a price) outweighed the inconvenience to the millions of
    > people presently using a GPS service - for free. Now the FAA is
    > involved, Lightsquared seem to have a bit of a problem on their hands.
    > I hope that if similar potential conflict happens in NZ, we'll get it
    > sorted out long before it gets to this stage.
    >
    >
    > http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...-disrupts-plane-safety-gear-in-u-s-tests.html


    If they are in their allocated band and it was just cheapness of the GPS
    vendors in filtering then its no different to the old days when mobile
    phones would mess up TV reception because of cheap recievers.

    Not the LTE guys problem unless they go outside their allocated
    frequency band
     
    Richard, Dec 17, 2011
    #4
  5. Me

    JohnO Guest

    On Dec 16, 5:18 pm, Gordon <> wrote:
    > On 2011-12-16, JohnO <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Dec 16, 10:00 am, Me <> wrote:
    > >> A battle is developing in the US over "Lightsquared" proposed 4G LTE
    > >> high-speed broadband network interfering with GPS.
    > >> AIUI, Lightsquared claimed that use of the frequencies would interfere
    > >> with around 10% of existing GPS devices.  US Government tests indicate
    > >> that it would interfere with 75%.
    > >> Quite remarkable (IMO) that billions of $ can be invested - without
    > >> getting this sorted out properly beforehand.  Or was there some
    > >> assumption made by Lightsquared, that the "public good" of their 4G LTE
    > >> network (allowing 260 million people to gain access to high-speed mobile
    > >> broadband - at a price) outweighed the inconvenience to the millions of
    > >> people presently using a GPS service - for free.  Now the FAA is
    > >> involved, Lightsquared seem to have a bit of a problem on their hands.
    > >> I hope that if similar potential conflict happens in NZ, we'll get it
    > >> sorted out long before it gets to this stage.

    >
    > >>http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-15/falcone-s-lightsquared-di....

    >
    > > Interfering with GPS is a safety issue as well as a commercial one so
    > > I'd say they are in the shit.

    >
    > So 4G is the weapon of choice for messing up GPS?


    You can buy more effective GPS jammers off the web for less than the
    price of any 4g LTE device.
     
    JohnO, Dec 17, 2011
    #5
  6. Me

    Greg Guest

    On 17/12/2011 3:59 p.m., JohnO wrote:
    > On Dec 16, 5:18 pm, Gordon<> wrote:
    >> On 2011-12-16, JohnO<> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> On Dec 16, 10:00 am, Me<> wrote:
    >>>> A battle is developing in the US over "Lightsquared" proposed 4G LTE
    >>>> high-speed broadband network interfering with GPS.
    >>>> AIUI, Lightsquared claimed that use of the frequencies would interfere
    >>>> with around 10% of existing GPS devices. US Government tests indicate
    >>>> that it would interfere with 75%.
    >>>> Quite remarkable (IMO) that billions of $ can be invested - without
    >>>> getting this sorted out properly beforehand. Or was there some
    >>>> assumption made by Lightsquared, that the "public good" of their 4G LTE
    >>>> network (allowing 260 million people to gain access to high-speed mobile
    >>>> broadband - at a price) outweighed the inconvenience to the millions of
    >>>> people presently using a GPS service - for free. Now the FAA is
    >>>> involved, Lightsquared seem to have a bit of a problem on their hands.
    >>>> I hope that if similar potential conflict happens in NZ, we'll get it
    >>>> sorted out long before it gets to this stage.

    >>
    >>>> http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-15/falcone-s-lightsquared-di...

    >>
    >>> Interfering with GPS is a safety issue as well as a commercial one so
    >>> I'd say they are in the shit.

    >>
    >> So 4G is the weapon of choice for messing up GPS?

    >
    > You can buy more effective GPS jammers off the web for less than the
    > price of any 4g LTE device.



    What most people don't appreciate is the level of GPS signals, remember
    the signals are coming from satellites many thousands of KM's above the
    earth, by the time they get to your GPS receivers the signal is barely
    above background noise, so it won't take much interference from a 4G
    network to disrupt them, in this case it's not the actual cell signal,
    but the harmonics that overlap on the GPS bands
     
    Greg, Dec 17, 2011
    #6
  7. Me

    Richard Guest

    On 12/17/2011 6:27 PM, Greg wrote:

    > What most people don't appreciate is the level of GPS signals, remember
    > the signals are coming from satellites many thousands of KM's above the
    > earth, by the time they get to your GPS receivers the signal is barely
    > above background noise, so it won't take much interference from a 4G
    > network to disrupt them, in this case it's not the actual cell signal,
    > but the harmonics that overlap on the GPS bands


    Really? What I read ages back was that it was just that the band was
    adjacent to the GPS band and they had lousy filtering in the chips, not
    a problem with the transmission having harmonics
     
    Richard, Dec 17, 2011
    #7
  8. Me

    victor Guest

    On 17/12/2011 7:03 p.m., Richard wrote:
    > On 12/17/2011 6:27 PM, Greg wrote:
    >
    >> What most people don't appreciate is the level of GPS signals, remember
    >> the signals are coming from satellites many thousands of KM's above the
    >> earth, by the time they get to your GPS receivers the signal is barely
    >> above background noise, so it won't take much interference from a 4G
    >> network to disrupt them, in this case it's not the actual cell signal,
    >> but the harmonics that overlap on the GPS bands

    >
    > Really? What I read ages back was that it was just that the band was
    > adjacent to the GPS band and they had lousy filtering in the chips, not
    > a problem with the transmission having harmonics


    Its complicated.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LightSquared#Interference_issues
     
    victor, Dec 17, 2011
    #8
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