3 ccd panasonic camcorder

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Wayne J, Jul 1, 2004.

  1. Wayne J

    Wayne J Guest

    I notice that Panasonic is coming out with a video camera, the PV-GS400,
    that is capable of taking 4 megapixel stills. Normally the still capability
    of video cameras is pretty poor due to the tiny ccd sizes, but the area of
    this sensor is pretty large. I think it must be close to a 5/8 ccd in total
    area. Does anybody think that this camera has the potential to produce an
    image as good as a 4 megapixel digital camera with a similar sized ccd? How
    many pixels would this sensor have? Is the image interpolated? What is pixel
    shifting?

    Wayne
     
    Wayne J, Jul 1, 2004
    #1
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  2. "Wayne J" <> wrote in message
    news:aDWEc.84527$...
    > I notice that Panasonic is coming out with a video camera, the PV-GS400,
    > that is capable of taking 4 megapixel stills. Normally the still

    capability
    > of video cameras is pretty poor due to the tiny ccd sizes, but the area of
    > this sensor is pretty large.


    I always thought the still quality had nothing to do with the size of the
    sensor but instead the type pf sensor (vs. a digital still sensor) and the
    quality of the lens.
     
    this old user, Jul 1, 2004
    #2
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  3. Wayne J wrote:
    >
    > I notice that Panasonic is coming out with a video camera, the PV-GS400,
    > that is capable of taking 4 megapixel stills. Normally the still capability
    > of video cameras is pretty poor due to the tiny ccd sizes, but the area of
    > this sensor is pretty large. I think it must be close to a 5/8 ccd in total
    > area. Does anybody think that this camera has the potential to produce an
    > image as good as a 4 megapixel digital camera with a similar sized ccd? How
    > many pixels would this sensor have? Is the image interpolated? What is pixel
    > shifting?


    Panasonic and others (Canon) have already used "pixel shift technology"
    before in their camcorders. This is a HOAX similar to the color mosaic
    technology used in digital photography. It does NOT produce decent
    true-color images, regardless of the fake Megapixel count!

    "Pixel shift" shifts one CCD (usually the green) by half a pixel in both
    dimensions so that pixels partially overlap and count increases by 2x2.
    A "pixel shift" image looks horrible in this faked blown-up resolution,
    it gets halfway acceptable if reducing both dimensions by 50% so that
    the result approaches the true information contents. Such reduced
    pixel-shift image looks MUCH better than any (Bayer) mosaic image
    from a digital still camera, but it does not come close to a decent
    true-color image as captured with a Foveon sensor, for example.

    Regards
    Guido
     
    Guido Vollbeding, Jul 2, 2004
    #3
  4. > "Pixel shift" shifts one CCD (usually the green) by half a pixel in both
    > dimensions so that pixels partially overlap and count increases by 2x2.
    > A "pixel shift" image looks horrible in this faked blown-up resolution,
    > it gets halfway acceptable if reducing both dimensions by 50% so that
    > the result approaches the true information contents.


    BTW, this would compare to a 1 Megapixel true-color image and suggests
    that Panasonic uses 1 Meg CCD chips, same size as used by Sony in their
    actual consumer/prosumer 3ccd camcorder line. Sony do not use the
    pixel-shift hoax and output a true 1-Megapixel image (which is very bad
    for marketing as you can see), but the quality is inferior due to
    horrible noise levels.

    Regards
    Guido
     
    Guido Vollbeding, Jul 2, 2004
    #4
  5. > BTW, this would compare to a 1 Megapixel true-color image and suggests
    > that Panasonic uses 1 Meg CCD chips, same size as used by Sony in their
    > actual consumer/prosumer 3ccd camcorder line. Sony do not use the
    > pixel-shift hoax and output a true 1-Megapixel image (which is very bad
    > for marketing as you can see), but the quality is inferior due to
    > horrible noise levels.


    BTW it would be better if Panasonic not used pixel shift and also output
    a true 1-Mega image instead of the fake pixel-shifted 4-Mega, and less
    noise than the Sony.
    Such clean 1-Mega image could be better upscaled to 4-Meg if required by
    appropriate algorithms in software.
    But stupid megapixel marketing prevents more reasonable solutions...

    Regards
    Guido
     
    Guido Vollbeding, Jul 2, 2004
    #5
  6. Wayne J

    Mark B. Guest

    "this old user" <> wrote in message
    news:Dm%Ec.19921$...
    >
    > "Wayne J" <> wrote in message
    > news:aDWEc.84527$...
    > > I notice that Panasonic is coming out with a video camera, the PV-GS400,
    > > that is capable of taking 4 megapixel stills. Normally the still

    > capability
    > > of video cameras is pretty poor due to the tiny ccd sizes, but the area

    of
    > > this sensor is pretty large.

    >
    > I always thought the still quality had nothing to do with the size of the
    > sensor but instead the type pf sensor (vs. a digital still sensor) and the
    > quality of the lens.
    >
    >


    It has more to do with the size of the sensor than anything else, unless
    maybe you're using really crappy 3rd party lenses.

    Mark
     
    Mark B., Jul 2, 2004
    #6
  7. "Wayne J" <> wrote in message
    news:aDWEc.84527$...
    > I notice that Panasonic is coming out with a video camera, the PV-GS400,
    > that is capable of taking 4 megapixel stills. Normally the still

    capability
    > of video cameras is pretty poor due to the tiny ccd sizes, but the area of
    > this sensor is pretty large. I think it must be close to a 5/8 ccd in

    total
    > area. Does anybody think that this camera has the potential to produce an
    > image as good as a 4 megapixel digital camera with a similar sized ccd?

    How
    > many pixels would this sensor have? Is the image interpolated? What is

    pixel
    > shifting?


    With pixel shifting, the three sensors are not precisely aligned. So you get
    more spatial resolution, but you have to interpolate color information. This
    works well, because of the physioligy of how the human eye works. Basically
    they're copying how a CFA sensor works to increase resolution.

    What would be really cool is if you could have a single sensor with three
    sets of sensors (red/green/blue). But Foveon has been trying to do this for
    years, and the results have not been great.
     
    Steven M. Scharf, Jul 2, 2004
    #7
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