[2nd try] History of the War, Pt. 1

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Derek Janssen, Apr 16, 2007.

  1. [Continuing our "encore" presentation of lost on-topic content threads,
    now that our Massive Troubles seem to be a more distant memory behind
    us... ]
    ====

    We've seen every possible analysis of What's Wrong with the Format War--
    But I'll say this - Give this guy the tech-news equivalent of a freakin'
    PULITZER:
    http://www.internetnews.com/storage/article.php/3671091

    (And speaking as the one group poster who usually has to do most of the
    backstory explanations around here, consider that sterling praise.) :)

    Derek Janssen (it's topic--You know it, you love it, you can't read the
    group without it)
    Derek Janssen, Apr 16, 2007
    #1
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  2. Derek Janssen

    Doug Jacobs Guest

    Derek Janssen <> wrote:

    > We've seen every possible analysis of What's Wrong with the Format War--
    > But I'll say this - Give this guy the tech-news equivalent of a freakin'
    > PULITZER:
    > http://www.internetnews.com/storage/article.php/3671091


    Wow, excellent article. I never considered Microsoft's involvement with
    the format war. I always thought their PC side was neutral, while their
    console side chose HD-DVD simply because it's not Sony's.

    Although, I'm surprised he didn't point out the similarities between
    DVD-R/+R, which resulted in slow adoption until the multiformat devices
    became affordable.

    --
    Win cash and giftcards just for clicking your mouse!
    http://www.netwinner.com/?signupCode=amuro98
    Doug Jacobs, Apr 17, 2007
    #2
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  3. Doug Jacobs wrote:
    > Derek Janssen <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>We've seen every possible analysis of What's Wrong with the Format War--
    >>But I'll say this - Give this guy the tech-news equivalent of a freakin'
    >>PULITZER:
    >>http://www.internetnews.com/storage/article.php/3671091

    >
    > Wow, excellent article. I never considered Microsoft's involvement with
    > the format war. I always thought their PC side was neutral, while their
    > console side chose HD-DVD simply because it's not Sony's.


    Also, I'm not laughing as much about that "conspiracy theory" of MS and
    X-Box Live downloads:

    If Blu ever does come out on top and HD caves in, and Microsoft goes
    sour-grapes on hard-disk media, you *know* which company is going to
    make twice as much of a push on "Downloading is the future!", which half
    of the industry is already gullible enough to believe. (Everyone except
    the customers, who believe a viewer's DVD shelf is his castle--As
    Jerkboy says, "Equity, equity!")
    And X-Box Live is already pushing HD-movie downloads to become a
    second-place runner-up to Apple Movie Store's standard-def AppleTV MP4
    movies...

    ....Not that they're going to topple iPod overnight, but the *last* thing
    we need is to have a Download War which is in even LESS demand than the
    Hi-Def war.

    Derek Janssen
    Derek Janssen, Apr 17, 2007
    #3
  4. Derek Janssen

    Mac Cool Guest

    Doug Jacobs:

    > I never considered Microsoft's involvement with
    > the format war. I always thought their PC side was neutral, while
    > their console side chose HD-DVD simply because it's not Sony's.


    No one is neutral when profit is involved.

    --
    Mac Cool
    Mac Cool, Apr 17, 2007
    #4
  5. Derek Janssen

    Doug Jacobs Guest

    Derek Janssen <> wrote:

    > Also, I'm not laughing as much about that "conspiracy theory" of MS and
    > X-Box Live downloads:


    > If Blu ever does come out on top and HD caves in, and Microsoft goes
    > sour-grapes on hard-disk media, you *know* which company is going to
    > make twice as much of a push on "Downloading is the future!", which half
    > of the industry is already gullible enough to believe. (Everyone except
    > the customers, who believe a viewer's DVD shelf is his castle--As
    > Jerkboy says, "Equity, equity!")
    > And X-Box Live is already pushing HD-movie downloads to become a
    > second-place runner-up to Apple Movie Store's standard-def AppleTV MP4
    > movies...


    > ...Not that they're going to topple iPod overnight, but the *last* thing
    > we need is to have a Download War which is in even LESS demand than the
    > Hi-Def war.


    Oh, I don't know. In the realm of PC gaming, download services are taking
    bigger and bigger chunks out of retail sales. There's more than enough
    room in the market for them to compete with one another. From the gamer's
    point of view, he simply goes where the games are. Some titles from here,
    some from there, etc. I've yet to hear about some PC gamer roaring "Steam
    is teh r0xx0r!" while refusing to even look at Direct2Download or GameTap,
    even at the expense of not being able to play the games offered there.

    For the realm of video downloads, right now, the main services are locked
    to a specific content provider and hardware platform. For instance, you
    cannot use the Xbox 360 to access Sony's Marketplace and download content
    from there. Personally, I think for this model to really succeed, the
    content providers will have to lock in deals with existing hardware
    vendors, like Tivo, who can provide the hardware for free (or almost free)
    and then charge consumers for their use of the products.

    As for downloads entirely replacing physical media....I don't know.

    Certainly for rentals, I wouldn't mind a streaming 'on demand' or download
    type service so long as the quality was good enough. But if it's a title I
    like enough, I would like to own a physical copy of it in some manner. I
    would LOVE the ability to rent PC games. Why even pay $20 for a title
    I'll probably fiddle with for a few dozen hours and then never play
    again? One of the problems facing people nowadys is clutter. It's too
    easy to accumulate too much stuff.

    --
    Win cash and giftcards just for clicking your mouse!
    http://www.netwinner.com/?signupCode=amuro98
    Doug Jacobs, Apr 18, 2007
    #5
  6. Doug Jacobs wrote:

    >>And X-Box Live is already pushing HD-movie downloads to become a
    >>second-place runner-up to Apple Movie Store's standard-def AppleTV MP4
    >>movies...
    >>Not that they're going to topple iPod overnight, but the *last* thing
    >>we need is to have a Download War which is in even LESS demand than the
    >>Hi-Def war.

    >
    > For the realm of video downloads, right now, the main services are locked
    > to a specific content provider and hardware platform. For instance, you
    > cannot use the Xbox 360 to access Sony's Marketplace and download content
    > from there. Personally, I think for this model to really succeed, the
    > content providers will have to lock in deals with existing hardware
    > vendors, like Tivo, who can provide the hardware for free (or almost free)
    > and then charge consumers for their use of the products.
    >
    > As for downloads entirely replacing physical media....I don't know.
    >
    > Certainly for rentals, I wouldn't mind a streaming 'on demand' or download
    > type service so long as the quality was good enough. But if it's a title I
    > like enough, I would like to own a physical copy of it in some manner. I
    > would LOVE the ability to rent PC games. Why even pay $20 for a title
    > I'll probably fiddle with for a few dozen hours and then never play
    > again? One of the problems facing people nowadys is clutter. It's too
    > easy to accumulate too much stuff.


    Apple Movie Store pretty much cemented the Download issue:
    Since the AppleTV wasn't invented yet (although it's getting good
    reviews), and nothing connected it to the TV, nobody really caught on to
    WHY the heck we were now all supposed to download our movies, like the
    magazine articles all said we would--
    What Apple Movie got by on was exactly what we *were* using it for: You
    bought a nice, permanent legal clean-ripped copy of the movie, at
    hard-DVD prices, that you could keep on your iPod or desktop. Period.

    Amazon was sucker enough to jump into "everybody's doing it"
    download-mania, didn't provide any technical interface, let studios
    charge self-indulgent prices all over the map, offered movies that only
    played on their own software or Brand X's, and went straight down the
    toilet...
    And now Apple Movie Store has a few MORE selections to choose from,
    after Paramount, MGM and Lionsgate all jumped ship for the service that
    was still going to be around a year later.

    Basically, the "living room" factor seems to be the one stumbling block
    for every other company--It's nice to play HD download movies in your
    living room on X-Box Live, but that's IF you happen to own an X-Box.
    Which puts their half of the tech-war right back in the Gamerz' hands
    again, which is part of how all the Blu/HD fighting started in the first
    place.

    Derek Janssen
    Derek Janssen, Apr 18, 2007
    #6
  7. Derek Janssen

    Doug Jacobs Guest

    Derek Janssen <> wrote:

    > Apple Movie Store pretty much cemented the Download issue:
    > Since the AppleTV wasn't invented yet (although it's getting good
    > reviews), and nothing connected it to the TV, nobody really caught on to
    > WHY the heck we were now all supposed to download our movies, like the
    > magazine articles all said we would--
    > What Apple Movie got by on was exactly what we *were* using it for: You
    > bought a nice, permanent legal clean-ripped copy of the movie, at
    > hard-DVD prices, that you could keep on your iPod or desktop. Period.


    And it's easy to use. A lot of tech companies simply overlook the human
    aspect to their product, but the reality is, not everyone is a die-hard
    tech/gadgeteer geek who's willing to put up with some highly technical
    configurations and a poor UI.

    Personally, I'm fine with putting up a server and ripping movies to it.
    What I haven't found yet, is a nice, (cheap) easy to use set top streaming
    box. I don't want to to put up a full-blown computer. I want something
    that's self contained, and bulletproof. Something that even my in-laws
    will feel comfortable using. Very few devices pass the in-law test...

    > Basically, the "living room" factor seems to be the one stumbling block
    > for every other company--It's nice to play HD download movies in your
    > living room on X-Box Live, but that's IF you happen to own an X-Box.
    > Which puts their half of the tech-war right back in the Gamerz' hands
    > again, which is part of how all the Blu/HD fighting started in the first
    > place.


    Well, both Sony and Microsoft have stated they want to be in control of
    your entertainment system, covering not just games, but movies, videos,
    internet, etc.

    I've never felt that "convergence" was some silver bullet that would
    somehow make everything so sexy and profitable. There's a reason why AV
    afficianados don't go with "all-in-one" solutions. I'd personally rather
    just have my devices do a single job, and do it VERY VERY well. This is
    why I think, despite its shortcomings, Apple's AppleTV product is going to
    overtake both the 360's and PS3's media services.

    --
    Win cash and giftcards just for clicking your mouse!
    http://www.netwinner.com/?signupCode=amuro98
    Doug Jacobs, Apr 19, 2007
    #7
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