2200 printing tip

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by bjaynes@montanaport.net, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. Guest

    Hi,
    I'm new to printing with an Epson 2200. Have been at it a couple of
    days. I like rich saturation and full contrast. If I use Photo Enhance
    with Vivid and Sharp, the look is generally what I want. However, the
    print window doesn't allow for color adjustment without switching out
    of Photo Enhance. So, I worked in Color Controls some since I'm used to
    those from doing C-Prints. However, prints have a decided weak look
    there. Was using the Epson Vivid Color and 1.8 gamma there. Could it
    be I just need to turn up the saturation and contrast in tests?
    Thanks,
    Bill
     
    , Aug 23, 2006
    #1
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  2. Mark² Guest

    wrote:
    > Hi,
    > I'm new to printing with an Epson 2200. Have been at it a couple of
    > days. I like rich saturation and full contrast. If I use Photo Enhance
    > with Vivid and Sharp, the look is generally what I want. However, the
    > print window doesn't allow for color adjustment without switching out
    > of Photo Enhance. So, I worked in Color Controls some since I'm used
    > to those from doing C-Prints. However, prints have a decided weak look
    > there. Was using the Epson Vivid Color and 1.8 gamma there. Could it
    > be I just need to turn up the saturation and contrast in tests?
    > Thanks,
    > Bill


    If you're printing from Photoshop, you should completely by-pass Epson's
    color controls and let Photoshop handle color management and color profiles.
    Otherwise, you're at the mercy of Epson's automatic renditions of your work.

    --
    Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
    www.pbase.com/markuson
     
    Mark², Aug 23, 2006
    #2
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  3. frederick Guest

    wrote:
    > Hi,
    > I'm new to printing with an Epson 2200. Have been at it a couple of
    > days. I like rich saturation and full contrast. If I use Photo Enhance
    > with Vivid and Sharp, the look is generally what I want. However, the
    > print window doesn't allow for color adjustment without switching out
    > of Photo Enhance. So, I worked in Color Controls some since I'm used to
    > those from doing C-Prints. However, prints have a decided weak look
    > there. Was using the Epson Vivid Color and 1.8 gamma there. Could it
    > be I just need to turn up the saturation and contrast in tests?
    > Thanks,
    > Bill
    >

    AFAIK (and it is not a simple subject):

    If you are using the photo enhance setting, then I suspect gamma
    selected should be 2.2 - not 1.8, and that may be why your prints look
    weak and desaturated.
    Make sure your monitor is calibrated correctly. Just my opinion, but
    you have some chance of getting the monitor profile right using only
    software calibration if you are using a higher end CRT (you can buy
    second-hand trintron/diamondtron/viewsonic P series aperture grill
    monitors for next to nothing now), but might be fighting a losing battle
    with even high end LCDs without hardware calibration.

    If you don't want to go down the colour-managed route, then try printing
    with utilities from Epson rather than trying to adjust things manually
    via the printer driver settings and printing from a non colour-aware
    application. Epson Easy Photo Print and Darkroom Print ship with the
    R1800 (which I use) and do a reasonable job - IMO much better than
    trying to tweak settings when printing from an application which is not
    colour-aware.

    The best option is to have a fully colour managed workflow. That way,
    then using a colour-aware photo editor (ie Photoshop) you can edit your
    images - adjust contrast etc - with some certainty that what you see in
    the editing screen is what you will get out of the printer (but only if
    your monitor is calibrated).

    Assuming that you have photoshop then:
    Select ICM Off in the _printer_ driver
    Open the image in PS
    Allow PS to convert an image that may have been created in another
    colour space (usually SRGB) to Adobe RGB, or assign Adobe RGB colour
    space if prompted that the image doesn't have an embedded colour space
    defined.
    Adjust colour/contrast etc to how you want it in PS.
    Print using "print with preview", select "show more options", select the
    paper you are printing on, intent "relative colometric, Black Point
    Compensation selected.
    If you also have "print preview" selected in the printer driver, then
    you will probably see that the colours are "wrong" in that screen, as
    the colours that photoshop (or Qimage or other colour aware application)
    send (without ICM enabled) to the printer are adjusted using the ICC
    profile to correct the colour for the paper that you selected - so
    "wrong" is right.
     
    frederick, Aug 23, 2006
    #3
  4. Roy G Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi,
    > I'm new to printing with an Epson 2200. Have been at it a couple of
    > days. I like rich saturation and full contrast. If I use Photo Enhance
    > with Vivid and Sharp, the look is generally what I want. However, the
    > print window doesn't allow for color adjustment without switching out
    > of Photo Enhance. So, I worked in Color Controls some since I'm used to
    > those from doing C-Prints. However, prints have a decided weak look
    > there. Was using the Epson Vivid Color and 1.8 gamma there. Could it
    > be I just need to turn up the saturation and contrast in tests?
    > Thanks,
    > Bill



    Hi.

    What you really want is for the Print to match what you see on the Screen.

    To achieve this ideal, you need to use a Colour Managed workflow.

    Messing about with the variables within the Epson Driver, will only waste
    considerable amounts of Paper and Ink. I know, because I tried that way,
    even making test strips just like in the darkroom.

    Eventually I gave up and bought a printer which had ICC profiles available
    for it, so that I could switch to Colour Management. I now pretty well
    always get what I want First Print.

    It is not easy, but it is not rocket science either. If you could control
    colour in Wet Printing, then you are capable of doing it digitally.

    Make sure your Editing Program is capable of C.M. and read up on it in the
    Help Files. If your program is not CM capable, then get one which is.

    Have a read at www.digital-darkroom.com where there are plenty of articles,
    and sample workflows.

    Once you get the hang of it, then your problems will be solved.

    Roy G
     
    Roy G, Aug 24, 2006
    #4
  5. Roy G wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Hi,
    >> I'm new to printing with an Epson 2200. Have been at it a couple of
    >> days. I like rich saturation and full contrast. If I use Photo Enhance
    >> with Vivid and Sharp, the look is generally what I want. However, the
    >> print window doesn't allow for color adjustment without switching out
    >> of Photo Enhance. So, I worked in Color Controls some since I'm used to
    >> those from doing C-Prints. However, prints have a decided weak look
    >> there. Was using the Epson Vivid Color and 1.8 gamma there. Could it
    >> be I just need to turn up the saturation and contrast in tests?
    >> Thanks,
    >> Bill

    >
    >
    > Hi.
    >
    > What you really want is for the Print to match what you see on the Screen.
    >
    > To achieve this ideal, you need to use a Colour Managed workflow.
    >
    > Messing about with the variables within the Epson Driver, will only waste
    > considerable amounts of Paper and Ink. I know, because I tried that way,
    > even making test strips just like in the darkroom.
    >
    > Eventually I gave up and bought a printer which had ICC profiles available
    > for it, so that I could switch to Colour Management. I now pretty well
    > always get what I want First Print.
    >
    > It is not easy, but it is not rocket science either. If you could control
    > colour in Wet Printing, then you are capable of doing it digitally.
    >
    > Make sure your Editing Program is capable of C.M. and read up on it in the
    > Help Files. If your program is not CM capable, then get one which is.
    >
    > Have a read at www.digital-darkroom.com where there are plenty of articles,
    > and sample workflows.
    >
    > Once you get the hang of it, then your problems will be solved.
    >


    Also, Russell Brown has a series of online tutorials for printing with
    the 2200. russellbrown.com, IIRC. Also recall they're for Mac, but they
    still might be helpful.

    --
    John McWilliams
     
    John McWilliams, Aug 24, 2006
    #5
  6. On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 23:08:53 GMT, "Roy G"

    >What you really want is for the Print to match what you see on the Screen.
    >
    >To achieve this ideal, you need to use a Colour Managed workflow.



    Possibly, but for that you need a printer profile. Newer Epsons
    have free (and very good) ICC profiles (for Epson media, of
    course,) but that may not be the case for the 2200 -- at least
    not profiles from Epson proper.

    It's a bit of a bear making good printer profiles at home.
    So in the OP's case, going to a color managed profile
    most likely means having a printer profile made.

    Figure about $40-50 per. Google on "Cathy's
    Profiles" and/or Dry Creek Photo (for starters.)

    If the OP is courageous, look up Profile Prism -- the best
    of the cheap (flatbed scanner based) printer-profiling
    packages.


    rafe b
    www.terrapinphoto.com
     
    Raphael Bustin, Aug 24, 2006
    #6
  7. frederick Guest

    Raphael Bustin wrote:
    > On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 23:08:53 GMT, "Roy G"
    >
    >> What you really want is for the Print to match what you see on the Screen.
    >>
    >> To achieve this ideal, you need to use a Colour Managed workflow.

    >
    >
    > Possibly, but for that you need a printer profile. Newer Epsons
    > have free (and very good) ICC profiles (for Epson media, of
    > course,) but that may not be the case for the 2200 -- at least
    > not profiles from Epson proper.
    >
    > It's a bit of a bear making good printer profiles at home.
    > So in the OP's case, going to a color managed profile
    > most likely means having a printer profile made.
    >
    > Figure about $40-50 per. Google on "Cathy's
    > Profiles" and/or Dry Creek Photo (for starters.)
    >
    > If the OP is courageous, look up Profile Prism -- the best
    > of the cheap (flatbed scanner based) printer-profiling
    > packages.
    >
    >

    Overkill.
    The OP was most probably printing from windows using Gamma 1.8, and ICM.
    It is a big enough leap to go to a colour managed workflow from there.
    Sorting out monitor profile and getting reasonable prints using ICM
    would be a start. For all we know, the OP might not even have ICC
    colour-aware software to work with.
    The canned profiles that ship with the R2200 will be fine. Profiles for
    most good quality 3rd party papers for the 2200 will probably be fine too.
     
    frederick, Aug 24, 2006
    #7
  8. On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:12:30 +1200, frederick <> wrote:

    >Raphael Bustin wrote:
    >> On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 23:08:53 GMT, "Roy G"
    >>
    >>> What you really want is for the Print to match what you see on the Screen.
    >>>
    >>> To achieve this ideal, you need to use a Colour Managed workflow.

    >>
    >>
    >> Possibly, but for that you need a printer profile. Newer Epsons
    >> have free (and very good) ICC profiles (for Epson media, of
    >> course,) but that may not be the case for the 2200 -- at least
    >> not profiles from Epson proper.
    >>
    >> It's a bit of a bear making good printer profiles at home.
    >> So in the OP's case, going to a color managed profile
    >> most likely means having a printer profile made.
    >>
    >> Figure about $40-50 per. Google on "Cathy's
    >> Profiles" and/or Dry Creek Photo (for starters.)
    >>
    >> If the OP is courageous, look up Profile Prism -- the best
    >> of the cheap (flatbed scanner based) printer-profiling
    >> packages.
    >>
    >>

    >Overkill.
    >The OP was most probably printing from windows using Gamma 1.8, and ICM.
    >It is a big enough leap to go to a colour managed workflow from there.
    >Sorting out monitor profile and getting reasonable prints using ICM
    >would be a start. For all we know, the OP might not even have ICC
    >colour-aware software to work with.
    >The canned profiles that ship with the R2200 will be fine. Profiles for
    >most good quality 3rd party papers for the 2200 will probably be fine too.



    I'll follow up with specific points -- these don't necessarily
    contradict yours but you appear to be confusing several
    issues.

    1. I don't claim that an ICC color-managed workflow is
    necessary for great prints. It helps but it's not an
    absolute necessity if you're smart and careful --
    and consistent in your paper/ink choices.

    2. If you *are* going to use an ICC color-managed
    workflow, you *must* have a real ICC profile for the
    printer, unless you restrict yourself to using the
    sRGB working space in your image editor. And
    of course you must have a calibrated and profiled
    monitor (at least using, say, Adobe Gamma or
    equivalent, but better with a Spyder or Eye-1.)

    3. The Epson 2200 was sold before Epson started
    providing their own ICC profiles for their printers.
    The "canned" profiles aren't in that league.
    You *may* be able to find real ICC profiles for the
    2200 from other sources (eg., Red River, et. al.)

    4. Gamma 1.8 is stupid. It was a mistake on Mac
    systems (a quirk of history,) and in reality, never
    made sense for CRT monitors. If you're working
    in a color-managed system, gamma is implicit in
    your choice of working space.

    5. Windows "ICM" is really irrelevant in all of this.
    It's a stupid layer *on top of* the ICC workflow that
    has almost no added value and is best ignored.


    rafe b
    www.terrapinphoto.com
     
    Raphael Bustin, Aug 24, 2006
    #8
  9. frederick Guest

    Raphael Bustin wrote:
    > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:12:30 +1200, frederick <> wrote:
    >
    >> Raphael Bustin wrote:
    >>> On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 23:08:53 GMT, "Roy G"
    >>>
    >>>> What you really want is for the Print to match what you see on the Screen.
    >>>>
    >>>> To achieve this ideal, you need to use a Colour Managed workflow.
    >>>
    >>> Possibly, but for that you need a printer profile. Newer Epsons
    >>> have free (and very good) ICC profiles (for Epson media, of
    >>> course,) but that may not be the case for the 2200 -- at least
    >>> not profiles from Epson proper.
    >>>
    >>> It's a bit of a bear making good printer profiles at home.
    >>> So in the OP's case, going to a color managed profile
    >>> most likely means having a printer profile made.
    >>>
    >>> Figure about $40-50 per. Google on "Cathy's
    >>> Profiles" and/or Dry Creek Photo (for starters.)
    >>>
    >>> If the OP is courageous, look up Profile Prism -- the best
    >>> of the cheap (flatbed scanner based) printer-profiling
    >>> packages.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Overkill.
    >> The OP was most probably printing from windows using Gamma 1.8, and ICM.
    >> It is a big enough leap to go to a colour managed workflow from there.
    >> Sorting out monitor profile and getting reasonable prints using ICM
    >> would be a start. For all we know, the OP might not even have ICC
    >> colour-aware software to work with.
    >> The canned profiles that ship with the R2200 will be fine. Profiles for
    >> most good quality 3rd party papers for the 2200 will probably be fine too.

    >
    >
    > I'll follow up with specific points -- these don't necessarily
    > contradict yours but you appear to be confusing several
    > issues.
    >
    > 1. I don't claim that an ICC color-managed workflow is
    > necessary for great prints. It helps but it's not an
    > absolute necessity if you're smart and careful --
    > and consistent in your paper/ink choices.
    >
    > 2. If you *are* going to use an ICC color-managed
    > workflow, you *must* have a real ICC profile for the
    > printer, unless you restrict yourself to using the
    > sRGB working space in your image editor. And
    > of course you must have a calibrated and profiled
    > monitor (at least using, say, Adobe Gamma or
    > equivalent, but better with a Spyder or Eye-1.)
    >
    > 3. The Epson 2200 was sold before Epson started
    > providing their own ICC profiles for their printers.
    > The "canned" profiles aren't in that league.
    > You *may* be able to find real ICC profiles for the
    > 2200 from other sources (eg., Red River, et. al.)


    Epson's own profiles for the commonly used range of Epson papers are here:
    http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/EditorialAnnouncement.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=42114986
    I haven't checked, but expect that good profiles will be available from
    Ilford and other quality paper suppliers. The 2200 was only "replaced"
    by the 2400 about 12 months ago. My assumption that they may have
    "shipped with" the printer may be incorrect...
    >
    > 4. Gamma 1.8 is stupid. It was a mistake on Mac
    > systems (a quirk of history,) and in reality, never
    > made sense for CRT monitors. If you're working
    > in a color-managed system, gamma is implicit in
    > your choice of working space.
    >
    > 5. Windows "ICM" is really irrelevant in all of this.
    > It's a stupid layer *on top of* the ICC workflow that
    > has almost no added value and is best ignored.


    Except ICM colour management *must* be disabled in the printer driver if
    you are using profiles (unless you like very strange prints).
    >
    > rafe b
    > www.terrapinphoto.com
     
    frederick, Aug 24, 2006
    #9
  10. Roy G Guest

    "frederick" <> wrote in message news:1156396725.90177@ftpsrv1...
    > Raphael Bustin wrote:
    >> On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:12:30 +1200, frederick <> wrote:
    >>

    >

    Hi.

    I do not wish to disagree with either of you.

    I did say that I changed my printer, in order to get one for which Epson
    produced Profiles, and I did mean Media Specific Profiles, not just the
    general purpose (Generic) profile, which was the only one available for my
    Epson 700.

    Although the 2200 Printer Driver only has the Generic profile, Epson do
    supply the Media Specific Profiles for it, as a download, so the OP will
    have no problems getting them, and using them in a C.M. workflow.

    What you say is correct.

    Good Custom made ICC profiles will be better than those "Canned Profiles"
    supplied by Epson, but for most people the Epson Media Specific Profiles
    will give very good results.

    There will always be Printers, which have been built to the extremes of
    tolerances, for which these "averaged" profiles will not be quite accurate
    enough, and they would need Custom Profiles.

    Provided he takes care, he should be able to get his Monitor set up
    accurately enough, (if it is a CRT), without having to purchase an Eye One
    type device.

    I know that I am not alone in being able to produce accurate colours, with
    C.M., just using Adobe Gamma for the monitor, and without having had Custom
    Profiles made.

    Roy G
     
    Roy G, Aug 24, 2006
    #10
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