20x DVD burners

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by GraB, Jan 9, 2007.

  1. GraB

    GraB Guest

    When DVD burners got to 16x I thought that would be the limit but was
    surprised to find that Lite-On and Benq have 20x models: Benq DW2000
    http://www.benq.com/products/Storage/?product=1017 and Lite-on
    LH-20A1H (with Litescribe) and LH-20A1P http://tinyurl.com/y6h5j4 .

    specs for the LH-20A1H:

    DVD+R 20X maximum by CAV
    DVD-R 20X maximum by CAV
    DVD+R9 8X maximum by Zone CLV
    DVD-R9 8X maximum by Zone CLV
    DVD-RAM 12X maximum by PCAV

    ReWrite
    DVD+RW 8X by Z-CLV
    DVD-RW 6X CLV

    Read 16X maximum by CAV
    Access time 160ms

    CD Family
    Write
    CD-R 48X by CAV

    ReWrite
    CD-RW 32X maximum by Z-CLV in UltraSpeed disc
    Read 48X(7200KB/sec) maximum by CAV

    One thing I find slightly curious, comparing against the 18x version
    which seems identical except for the top burning speed is that the 20x
    version doesn't list 98SE in the compatible operating systems.
    Perhaps an unintentional omission?

    Now lets see if Woger says these are obsolete.
     
    GraB, Jan 9, 2007
    #1
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  2. GraB

    whome Guest

    "GraB" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > When DVD burners got to 16x I thought that would be the limit but was
    > surprised to find that Lite-On and Benq have 20x models: Benq DW2000
    > http://www.benq.com/products/Storage/?product=1017 and Lite-on
    > LH-20A1H (with Litescribe) and LH-20A1P http://tinyurl.com/y6h5j4 .
    >
    > specs for the LH-20A1H:
    >
    > DVD+R 20X maximum by CAV
    > DVD-R 20X maximum by CAV
    > DVD+R9 8X maximum by Zone CLV
    > DVD-R9 8X maximum by Zone CLV
    > DVD-RAM 12X maximum by PCAV
    >
    > ReWrite
    > DVD+RW 8X by Z-CLV
    > DVD-RW 6X CLV
    >
    > Read 16X maximum by CAV
    > Access time 160ms
    >
    > CD Family
    > Write
    > CD-R 48X by CAV
    >
    > ReWrite
    > CD-RW 32X maximum by Z-CLV in UltraSpeed disc
    > Read 48X(7200KB/sec) maximum by CAV
    >
    > One thing I find slightly curious, comparing against the 18x version
    > which seems identical except for the top burning speed is that the 20x
    > version doesn't list 98SE in the compatible operating systems.
    > Perhaps an unintentional omission?
    >
    > Now lets see if Woger says these are obsolete.
    >
    >



    why did you think 16x was the limit? Surely the limit is determined by
    ability of the disc to withstand high rotational speeds. i recall some
    stories of cd media fragmenting at 52x.
     
    whome, Jan 9, 2007
    #2
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  3. GraB

    GraB Guest

    On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:54:01 +1300, "whome" <> wrote:

    >
    >"GraB" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> When DVD burners got to 16x I thought that would be the limit but was
    >> surprised to find that Lite-On and Benq have 20x models: Benq DW2000
    >> http://www.benq.com/products/Storage/?product=1017 and Lite-on
    >> LH-20A1H (with Litescribe) and LH-20A1P http://tinyurl.com/y6h5j4 .
    >>
    >> specs for the LH-20A1H:
    >>
    >> DVD+R 20X maximum by CAV
    >> DVD-R 20X maximum by CAV
    >> DVD+R9 8X maximum by Zone CLV
    >> DVD-R9 8X maximum by Zone CLV
    >> DVD-RAM 12X maximum by PCAV
    >>
    >> ReWrite
    >> DVD+RW 8X by Z-CLV
    >> DVD-RW 6X CLV
    >>
    >> Read 16X maximum by CAV
    >> Access time 160ms
    >>
    >> CD Family
    >> Write
    >> CD-R 48X by CAV
    >>
    >> ReWrite
    >> CD-RW 32X maximum by Z-CLV in UltraSpeed disc
    >> Read 48X(7200KB/sec) maximum by CAV
    >>
    >> One thing I find slightly curious, comparing against the 18x version
    >> which seems identical except for the top burning speed is that the 20x
    >> version doesn't list 98SE in the compatible operating systems.
    >> Perhaps an unintentional omission?
    >>
    >> Now lets see if Woger says these are obsolete.
    >>

    >
    >why did you think 16x was the limit? Surely the limit is determined by
    >ability of the disc to withstand high rotational speeds. i recall some
    >stories of cd media fragmenting at 52x.
    >


    http://www.hitachi.com/New/cnews/040422.html

    "The maximum rotation speed for a disc, without centrifugal force
    causing disc burst, is about 16-times (16x) that of standard DVD
    speed."
     
    GraB, Jan 10, 2007
    #3
  4. GraB

    Richard Guest

    GraB wrote:
    >> why did you think 16x was the limit? Surely the limit is determined by
    >> ability of the disc to withstand high rotational speeds. i recall some
    >> stories of cd media fragmenting at 52x.
    >>

    >
    > http://www.hitachi.com/New/cnews/040422.html
    >
    > "The maximum rotation speed for a disc, without centrifugal force
    > causing disc burst, is about 16-times (16x) that of standard DVD
    > speed."


    Its not 20 times single speed at its fastest, it will be much less then
    that, and it will only achieve 20 speed at the outer edge. Thats why
    they use constant angular velocity.
     
    Richard, Jan 10, 2007
    #4
  5. GraB

    whome Guest

    "GraB" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:54:01 +1300, "whome" <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"GraB" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> When DVD burners got to 16x I thought that would be the limit but was
    >>> surprised to find that Lite-On and Benq have 20x models: Benq DW2000
    >>> http://www.benq.com/products/Storage/?product=1017 and Lite-on
    >>> LH-20A1H (with Litescribe) and LH-20A1P http://tinyurl.com/y6h5j4 .
    >>>
    >>> specs for the LH-20A1H:
    >>>
    >>> DVD+R 20X maximum by CAV
    >>> DVD-R 20X maximum by CAV
    >>> DVD+R9 8X maximum by Zone CLV
    >>> DVD-R9 8X maximum by Zone CLV
    >>> DVD-RAM 12X maximum by PCAV
    >>>
    >>> ReWrite
    >>> DVD+RW 8X by Z-CLV
    >>> DVD-RW 6X CLV
    >>>
    >>> Read 16X maximum by CAV
    >>> Access time 160ms
    >>>
    >>> CD Family
    >>> Write
    >>> CD-R 48X by CAV
    >>>
    >>> ReWrite
    >>> CD-RW 32X maximum by Z-CLV in UltraSpeed disc
    >>> Read 48X(7200KB/sec) maximum by CAV
    >>>
    >>> One thing I find slightly curious, comparing against the 18x version
    >>> which seems identical except for the top burning speed is that the 20x
    >>> version doesn't list 98SE in the compatible operating systems.
    >>> Perhaps an unintentional omission?
    >>>
    >>> Now lets see if Woger says these are obsolete.
    >>>

    >>
    >>why did you think 16x was the limit? Surely the limit is determined by
    >>ability of the disc to withstand high rotational speeds. i recall some
    >>stories of cd media fragmenting at 52x.
    >>

    >
    > http://www.hitachi.com/New/cnews/040422.html
    >
    > "The maximum rotation speed for a disc, without centrifugal force
    > causing disc burst, is about 16-times (16x) that of standard DVD
    > speed."
    >
    >


    he he, a good guess by me then.
     
    whome, Jan 10, 2007
    #5
  6. GraB

    Don Hills Guest

    In article <>,
    Blue <> wrote:
    >
    >Somewhere along the line the idea that a disk wpuld break at x RPM was
    >lost.


    In true geek tradition, someone did some actual tests:

    http://www.paintbug.com/cdexplode/

    In summary, a "52x" CDROM drive reaches about 10,400 RPM, maybe more if it
    tries to maintain the 52x data rate on the inner tracks of the disc. If it
    was truly a 52x drive for all tracks of the disc, it would reach over 27,500
    RPM on the innermost track and the disc would almost certainly explode. Even
    assuming a maximum of 10,400 RPM, all it would take would be a slight crack
    in the disc hub (such as that caused by a tight CD case spigot) for the disc
    to shatter. It certainly explains the occasional "exploding disc" reports,
    with bits of disc often breaking through the drive drawer front and shooting
    around the room.

    --
    Don Hills (dmhills at attglobaldotnet) Wellington, New Zealand
    "New interface closely resembles Presentation Manager,
    preparing you for the wonders of OS/2!"
    -- Advertisement on the box for Microsoft Windows 2.11 for 286
     
    Don Hills, Jan 10, 2007
    #6
  7. GraB

    -=rjh=- Guest

    Don Hills wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Blue <> wrote:
    >> Somewhere along the line the idea that a disk wpuld break at x RPM was
    >> lost.

    >
    > In true geek tradition, someone did some actual tests:
    >
    > http://www.paintbug.com/cdexplode/
    >
    > In summary, a "52x" CDROM drive reaches about 10,400 RPM, maybe more if it
    > tries to maintain the 52x data rate on the inner tracks of the disc. If it
    > was truly a 52x drive for all tracks of the disc, it would reach over 27,500
    > RPM on the innermost track and the disc would almost certainly explode. Even
    > assuming a maximum of 10,400 RPM, all it would take would be a slight crack
    > in the disc hub (such as that caused by a tight CD case spigot) for the disc
    > to shatter. It certainly explains the occasional "exploding disc" reports,
    > with bits of disc often breaking through the drive drawer front and shooting
    > around the room.
    >


    Mythbusters did this, they could reliably explode any disc they tried at
    (IIRC) 19,000rpm :)

    This wasn't really science (seldom is) and they clamped the disc to a
    spindle similar to an angle grinder hub. Failure was spectacular, but
    also of interest (perhaps because of the clamping system they used) was
    the huge amount of deflection caused by a standing wave on the disk edge
    itself - easily looked like >10mm, and maybe as much as 20mm. Pity they
    didn't follow up on that detail - since CDs aren't *that* flexible, it
    indicated that the failure mode might have been different to failure in
    a normal drive.
     
    -=rjh=-, Jan 10, 2007
    #7
  8. GraB

    Blue Guest

    On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:22:41 +1300, GraB wrote:

    >
    > http://www.hitachi.com/New/cnews/040422.html
    >
    > "The maximum rotation speed for a disc, without centrifugal force
    > causing disc burst, is about 16-times (16x) that of standard DVD
    > speed."


    Remember that 1x CD speed is not the same as 1x DVD speed.

    Then we have the point that the data is read/written at a constant linear
    speed. So slower at the end (edge) of the disk.

    Somewhere along the line the idea that a disk wpuld break at x RPM was
    lost.
     
    Blue, Jan 10, 2007
    #8
  9. GraB

    Don Hills Guest

    In article <>, -=rjh=- <> wrote:
    >
    >This wasn't really science (seldom is) and they clamped the disc to a
    >spindle similar to an angle grinder hub. Failure was spectacular, but
    >also of interest (perhaps because of the clamping system they used) was
    >the huge amount of deflection caused by a standing wave on the disk edge
    >itself - easily looked like >10mm, and maybe as much as 20mm. Pity they
    >didn't follow up on that detail - since CDs aren't *that* flexible, it
    >indicated that the failure mode might have been different to failure in
    >a normal drive.


    The Atlas Copco guys appeared to go to a lot of trouble to ensure accurate
    disc clamping and a high-quality drive, and they didn't mention any unusual
    bending modes. The Mythbusters might bave had problems with play in the
    driveshaft which would cause what is colloquially known as "whirling", where
    a shaft tries to rotate around a different axis than the one it is supposed
    to at high RPM. As you say, it would explain why the Mythbusters' failure
    point was 19,000 odd RPM against the Atlas Copco people's failure point
    of 27,500 odd RPM.

    --
    Don Hills (dmhills at attglobaldotnet) Wellington, New Zealand
    "New interface closely resembles Presentation Manager,
    preparing you for the wonders of OS/2!"
    -- Advertisement on the box for Microsoft Windows 2.11 for 286
     
    Don Hills, Jan 11, 2007
    #9
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