2 routers for added security

Discussion in 'Wireless Networking' started by Frank, Jun 19, 2005.

  1. Frank

    Frank Guest

    Would adding a wired router in front of my wireless router add security to
    my wireless network? I read (from links given here) about segregated
    networks using 2 routers. can this be done with just the routers? Is it
    effective?
    Thanks
    Frank l
     
    Frank, Jun 19, 2005
    #1
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  2. Frank

    Dave Guest

    it is effective if you have a specific type of situation where you need to
    segregate users on their own network segments. for most home, and even
    general business, use it is overkill and just complicates the setup.

    "Frank" <> wrote in message
    news:en7$...
    > Would adding a wired router in front of my wireless router add security to
    > my wireless network? I read (from links given here) about segregated
    > networks using 2 routers. can this be done with just the routers? Is it
    > effective?
    > Thanks
    > Frank l
    >
    >
     
    Dave, Jun 19, 2005
    #2
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  3. Frank

    Frank Guest

    Dave,
    I am trying to satisfy my paranoid mindset about setting up and using my
    small wireless network. When working wireless (using laptop) I would not be
    doing any security sensitive tasks. any Banking and such I would always do
    using the desktop which is hardwired to the wireless router. So I am looking
    for all options available to secure my wireless network. I will be using all
    available security settings, including WPA.
    Frank L

    "Dave" <> wrote in message
    news:e%...
    > it is effective if you have a specific type of situation where you need to
    > segregate users on their own network segments. for most home, and even
    > general business, use it is overkill and just complicates the setup.
    >
    > "Frank" <> wrote in message
    > news:en7$...
    >> Would adding a wired router in front of my wireless router add security
    >> to my wireless network? I read (from links given here) about segregated
    >> networks using 2 routers. can this be done with just the routers? Is it
    >> effective?
    >> Thanks
    >> Frank l
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Frank, Jun 19, 2005
    #3
  4. Frank

    Dave Guest

    too much paranoia... banking and such should always be secured with 128 bit
    ssl anyway so even if over unencrypted wireless is still secure. adding wpa
    just encrypts all the other stuff on top of that. personally i have a
    single router that handles my isdn connection out and all the lan functions,
    and just a wireless access point to feed the wireless part of the lan. this
    avoids all the problems with a second router and having to figure out the
    proper setup to let machines on each segment share stuff. a single router
    that includes wireless would also be good since it would all be in one box,
    but i already had the wired one before i wanted to add wireless.

    "Frank" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Dave,
    > I am trying to satisfy my paranoid mindset about setting up and using my
    > small wireless network. When working wireless (using laptop) I would not
    > be doing any security sensitive tasks. any Banking and such I would always
    > do using the desktop which is hardwired to the wireless router. So I am
    > looking for all options available to secure my wireless network. I will be
    > using all available security settings, including WPA.
    > Frank L
    >
    > "Dave" <> wrote in message
    > news:e%...
    >> it is effective if you have a specific type of situation where you need
    >> to segregate users on their own network segments. for most home, and
    >> even general business, use it is overkill and just complicates the setup.
    >>
    >> "Frank" <> wrote in message
    >> news:en7$...
    >>> Would adding a wired router in front of my wireless router add security
    >>> to my wireless network? I read (from links given here) about segregated
    >>> networks using 2 routers. can this be done with just the routers? Is it
    >>> effective?
    >>> Thanks
    >>> Frank l
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Dave, Jun 19, 2005
    #4
  5. In article <en7$>, "Frank"
    <> wrote:
    >Would adding a wired router in front of my wireless router add security to
    >my wireless network?


    Adding a wired router won't add security to your wireless network. It
    won't make any difference to someone who tries to intercept your
    wireless signals and break into the wireless network.

    >I read (from links given here) about segregated networks using 2 routers.
    >can this be done with just the routers? Is it effective?


    What networks are you trying to segregate from each other?

    It isn't possible to completely segregate two groups of computers
    using two routers. That requires three routers.

    >Thanks
    >Frank l

    --
    Best Wishes,
    Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

    Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
    for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
    addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

    Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
     
    Steve Winograd [MVP], Jun 19, 2005
    #5
  6. Frank

    Frank Guest

    I guess I do not understand the security issues. I know the signal between
    me and my bank is OK 128 bit.
    I envision a hacker's data collection app on my network lying in wait
    for me to type in or send some important info. So this is not the way of it?
    I need to read about what it is hackers actually do. Do they leave sleeper
    programs of sort? Even thought my info from my PC to my bank is encrypted,
    wouldn 't a key logger on my pC p/u my id and password before it is sent?
    So now you can see how ridiculously paranoid(or uninformed) I am. Any help
    or reference to overcome this would be greatly appreciated
    thanks
    Frank L


    "Steve Winograd [MVP]" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <en7$>, "Frank"
    > <> wrote:
    >>Would adding a wired router in front of my wireless router add security to
    >>my wireless network?

    >
    > Adding a wired router won't add security to your wireless network. It
    > won't make any difference to someone who tries to intercept your
    > wireless signals and break into the wireless network.
    >
    >>I read (from links given here) about segregated networks using 2 routers.
    >>can this be done with just the routers? Is it effective?

    >
    > What networks are you trying to segregate from each other?
    >
    > It isn't possible to completely segregate two groups of computers
    > using two routers. That requires three routers.
    >
    >>Thanks
    >>Frank l

    > --
    > Best Wishes,
    > Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)
    >
    > Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
    > for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
    > addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.
    >
    > Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
    > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
     
    Frank, Jun 19, 2005
    #6
  7. Frank

    Dave Guest

    if a keylogger is on your machine then no number of routers or encryption is
    going to help, the hacker will have your information and will use your
    secure network to send it to his collection site. to stop those you need
    virus scanners, spyware scanners, etc, etc.

    "Frank" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I guess I do not understand the security issues. I know the signal between
    >me and my bank is OK 128 bit.
    > I envision a hacker's data collection app on my network lying in wait
    > for me to type in or send some important info. So this is not the way of
    > it?
    > I need to read about what it is hackers actually do. Do they leave sleeper
    > programs of sort? Even thought my info from my PC to my bank is encrypted,
    > wouldn 't a key logger on my pC p/u my id and password before it is sent?
    > So now you can see how ridiculously paranoid(or uninformed) I am. Any help
    > or reference to overcome this would be greatly appreciated
    > thanks
    > Frank L
    >
    >
    > "Steve Winograd [MVP]" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> In article <en7$>, "Frank"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>>Would adding a wired router in front of my wireless router add security
    >>>to
    >>>my wireless network?

    >>
    >> Adding a wired router won't add security to your wireless network. It
    >> won't make any difference to someone who tries to intercept your
    >> wireless signals and break into the wireless network.
    >>
    >>>I read (from links given here) about segregated networks using 2 routers.
    >>>can this be done with just the routers? Is it effective?

    >>
    >> What networks are you trying to segregate from each other?
    >>
    >> It isn't possible to completely segregate two groups of computers
    >> using two routers. That requires three routers.
    >>
    >>>Thanks
    >>>Frank l

    >> --
    >> Best Wishes,
    >> Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)
    >>
    >> Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
    >> for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
    >> addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.
    >>
    >> Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
    >> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

    >
    >
     
    Dave, Jun 20, 2005
    #7
  8. Frank

    John Coode Guest

    Frank wrote:
    > I guess I do not understand the security issues. I know the signal between
    > me and my bank is OK 128 bit.
    > I envision a hacker's data collection app on my network lying in wait
    > for me to type in or send some important info. So this is not the way of it?
    > I need to read about what it is hackers actually do. Do they leave sleeper
    > programs of sort? Even thought my info from my PC to my bank is encrypted,
    > wouldn 't a key logger on my pC p/u my id and password before it is sent?
    > So now you can see how ridiculously paranoid(or uninformed) I am. Any help
    > or reference to overcome this would be greatly appreciated
    > thanks
    > Frank L


    >

    The truly paranoid can guard against key loggers by
    'typing' passwords on the Onscreen Keyboard. Find it in All
    Programs/Accessories/Accessibility or type osk.exe in the Run box.

    It's the chip those aliens planted in my head
    that bothers me.
     
    John Coode, Jun 20, 2005
    #8
  9. Frank

    Frank Guest

    OK, I understand. I appreciate all the feedback, it really helps. I am
    very,very (10 verys more) meticulous about setting up security (firewalls,
    AV, etc) and monitoring it's status daily. So I see that I should be quite
    safe following the guidelines and implementing all security options
    available to me. For me, These would be Zonealarm, XP Pro SP2 firewall, NAV,
    spywareguard 22, (great free program) adaware Pro(lavasoft, realtime) and
    then WPA and everything else available for my linksys setup.Wrt54GS, WPC54G
    Thanks so much for putting up with and responding to my concerns. That is
    sincere.
    Frank L


    "John Coode" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Frank wrote:
    >> I guess I do not understand the security issues. I know the signal
    >> between me and my bank is OK 128 bit.
    >> I envision a hacker's data collection app on my network lying in wait
    >> for me to type in or send some important info. So this is not the way of
    >> it?
    >> I need to read about what it is hackers actually do. Do they leave
    >> sleeper programs of sort? Even thought my info from my PC to my bank is
    >> encrypted, wouldn 't a key logger on my pC p/u my id and password before
    >> it is sent?
    >> So now you can see how ridiculously paranoid(or uninformed) I am. Any
    >> help or reference to overcome this would be greatly appreciated
    >> thanks
    >> Frank L

    >
    >>

    > The truly paranoid can guard against key loggers by
    > 'typing' passwords on the Onscreen Keyboard. Find it in All
    > Programs/Accessories/Accessibility or type osk.exe in the Run box.
    >
    > It's the chip those aliens planted in my head
    > that bothers me.
     
    Frank, Jun 20, 2005
    #9
  10. Frank

    Mercury Guest

    Do as you are: Concentrate more on the real threats. Learn what the threats
    are and review.
    IE anti virus, anti spyware, firewalls, file & OS security, not using Admin
    accounts. Not surfing from admin accounts, not downloading from untrusted
    sources, not opening suspicious emails, keeping systems patched, etc etc etc
    etc.

    When you done with all that and are *maintaining* it regularly, post back :)

    Don't run 2 s/w firewalls at the same time on the same machine - it doesn't
    work too well.

    If you are well down this track, then I would look into proving your own
    security so you can get a better understanding of what you have achieved and
    what there is still to do.



    "Frank" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > OK, I understand. I appreciate all the feedback, it really helps. I am
    > very,very (10 verys more) meticulous about setting up security (firewalls,
    > AV, etc) and monitoring it's status daily. So I see that I should be quite
    > safe following the guidelines and implementing all security options
    > available to me. For me, These would be Zonealarm, XP Pro SP2 firewall,
    > NAV, spywareguard 22, (great free program) adaware Pro(lavasoft, realtime)
    > and then WPA and everything else available for my linksys setup.Wrt54GS,
    > WPC54G
    > Thanks so much for putting up with and responding to my concerns. That is
    > sincere.
    > Frank L
    >
    >
    > "John Coode" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Frank wrote:
    >>> I guess I do not understand the security issues. I know the signal
    >>> between me and my bank is OK 128 bit.
    >>> I envision a hacker's data collection app on my network lying in
    >>> wait for me to type in or send some important info. So this is not the
    >>> way of it?
    >>> I need to read about what it is hackers actually do. Do they leave
    >>> sleeper programs of sort? Even thought my info from my PC to my bank is
    >>> encrypted, wouldn 't a key logger on my pC p/u my id and password before
    >>> it is sent?
    >>> So now you can see how ridiculously paranoid(or uninformed) I am. Any
    >>> help or reference to overcome this would be greatly appreciated
    >>> thanks
    >>> Frank L

    >>
    >>>

    >> The truly paranoid can guard against key loggers by
    >> 'typing' passwords on the Onscreen Keyboard. Find it in All
    >> Programs/Accessories/Accessibility or type osk.exe in the Run box.
    >>
    >> It's the chip those aliens planted in my head
    >> that bothers me.

    >
    >
     
    Mercury, Jun 20, 2005
    #10
  11. Frank

    Frank Guest

    Good advice also. I am very cautious. Never had a virus, I believe because I
    am so careful and aware. I am starting tonight with the wireless setup
    mentioned before.
    Thank you
    Frank L

    "Mercury" <> wrote in message
    news:d96bnl$hbb$...
    > Do as you are: Concentrate more on the real threats. Learn what the
    > threats are and review.
    > IE anti virus, anti spyware, firewalls, file & OS security, not using
    > Admin accounts. Not surfing from admin accounts, not downloading from
    > untrusted sources, not opening suspicious emails, keeping systems patched,
    > etc etc etc etc.
    >
    > When you done with all that and are *maintaining* it regularly, post back
    > :)
    >
    > Don't run 2 s/w firewalls at the same time on the same machine - it
    > doesn't work too well.
    >
    > If you are well down this track, then I would look into proving your own
    > security so you can get a better understanding of what you have achieved
    > and what there is still to do.
    >
    >
    >
    > "Frank" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> OK, I understand. I appreciate all the feedback, it really helps. I am
    >> very,very (10 verys more) meticulous about setting up security
    >> (firewalls, AV, etc) and monitoring it's status daily. So I see that I
    >> should be quite safe following the guidelines and implementing all
    >> security options available to me. For me, These would be Zonealarm, XP
    >> Pro SP2 firewall, NAV, spywareguard 22, (great free program) adaware
    >> Pro(lavasoft, realtime) and then WPA and everything else available for my
    >> linksys setup.Wrt54GS, WPC54G
    >> Thanks so much for putting up with and responding to my concerns. That is
    >> sincere.
    >> Frank L
    >>
    >>
    >> "John Coode" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Frank wrote:
    >>>> I guess I do not understand the security issues. I know the signal
    >>>> between me and my bank is OK 128 bit.
    >>>> I envision a hacker's data collection app on my network lying in
    >>>> wait for me to type in or send some important info. So this is not the
    >>>> way of it?
    >>>> I need to read about what it is hackers actually do. Do they leave
    >>>> sleeper programs of sort? Even thought my info from my PC to my bank is
    >>>> encrypted, wouldn 't a key logger on my pC p/u my id and password
    >>>> before it is sent?
    >>>> So now you can see how ridiculously paranoid(or uninformed) I am. Any
    >>>> help or reference to overcome this would be greatly appreciated
    >>>> thanks
    >>>> Frank L
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>> The truly paranoid can guard against key loggers by
    >>> 'typing' passwords on the Onscreen Keyboard. Find it in All
    >>> Programs/Accessories/Accessibility or type osk.exe in the Run box.
    >>>
    >>> It's the chip those aliens planted in my head
    >>> that bothers me.

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Frank, Jun 20, 2005
    #11
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