2 General camera questions

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Paulie, Nov 4, 2007.

  1. Paulie

    Paulie Guest

    I have 2 questions I hope you can answer.

    1) What camera brand to avoid?
    2) I'm wanting to buy a camera under $200 to put in luggage or
    car glove box. One that may take a bit of abuse.

    Thank you all for suggestions.

    Paulie
     
    Paulie, Nov 4, 2007
    #1
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  2. Paulie

    ray Guest

    On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:10:35 +0000, Paulie wrote:

    > I have 2 questions I hope you can answer.
    >
    > 1) What camera brand to avoid?


    Avoid for what reason? Personally, I avoid canon because of their total
    lack of Linux support and I avoid Fuji for past business practices. Other
    than that the world is my oyster. Caveats: I also avoid anything using
    proprietary memory cards i.e. xd or memory stick - other than that, I'll
    look at olympus and sony models - thinking stronly about a Sony Alpha.

    > 2) I'm wanting to buy a camera under $200 to put in luggage or
    > car glove box. One that may take a bit of abuse.


    Suggest you look at the Kodak online store for refurb products - I've
    purchased cameras (two from Kodak - a 1mp DC210+ and a P850), scanners and
    printers refurbished - always saved a good deal of money and never had a
    single problem - all still running.


    >
    > Thank you all for suggestions.
    >
    > Paulie
     
    ray, Nov 4, 2007
    #2
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  3. Paulie

    Marvin Guest

    Paulie wrote:
    > I have 2 questions I hope you can answer.
    >
    > 1) What camera brand to avoid?
    > 2) I'm wanting to buy a camera under $200 to put in luggage or
    > car glove box. One that may take a bit of abuse.
    >
    > Thank you all for suggestions.
    >
    > Paulie


    I doubt that any camera will stand up well to the high
    temperatures in a car's glove box in the summer.
     
    Marvin, Nov 4, 2007
    #3
  4. Marvin wrote:
    > Paulie wrote:
    >> 2) I'm wanting to buy a camera under $200 to put in luggage or
    >> car glove box. One that may take a bit of abuse.

    >
    > I doubt that any camera will stand up well to the high
    > temperatures in a car's glove box in the summer.


    Very true for film, but AFAIK not an issue for digital.
    Does anyone have a credible source to the contratry?

    jue
     
    Jürgen Exner, Nov 4, 2007
    #4
  5. Paulie

    Pat Guest

    On Nov 4, 8:10 am, Paulie <> wrote:
    > I have 2 questions I hope you can answer.
    >
    > 1) What camera brand to avoid?
    > 2) I'm wanting to buy a camera under $200 to put in luggage or
    > car glove box. One that may take a bit of abuse.
    >
    > Thank you all for suggestions.
    >
    > Paulie


    The best rumble-around-in-your-glove-box-until-you-need-it camera is a
    waterproof, disposable. Waterproof. Dust proof. Small size. Low
    cost. No loss if stolen. Durable. Can be processed and put on
    disk. Water/rain proof.
     
    Pat, Nov 4, 2007
    #5
  6. Paulie

    Paulie Guest

    ray <> wrote in
    news:p:

    > On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:10:35 +0000, Paulie wrote:
    >
    >> I have 2 questions I hope you can answer.
    >>
    >> 1) What camera brand to avoid?

    >
    > Avoid for what reason?


    Just any reason.

    > Personally, I avoid canon because of
    > their total lack of Linux support and I avoid Fuji for past
    > business practices. Other than that the world is my oyster.
    > Caveats: I also avoid anything using proprietary memory cards
    > i.e. xd or memory stick - other than that, I'll look at
    > olympus and sony models - thinking stronly about a Sony Alpha.
    >
    >> 2) I'm wanting to buy a camera under $200 to put in luggage
    >> or
    >> car glove box. One that may take a bit of abuse.

    >
    > Suggest you look at the Kodak online store for refurb products
    > - I've purchased cameras (two from Kodak - a 1mp DC210+ and a
    > P850), scanners and printers refurbished - always saved a good
    > deal of money and never had a single problem - all still
    > running.


    Thank you so much for your insight! Appreciate it.

    >> Thank you all for suggestions.
    >>
    >> Paulie

    >
     
    Paulie, Nov 4, 2007
    #6
  7. Paulie

    Paulie Guest

    Pat <> wrote in

    > The best rumble-around-in-your-glove-box-until-you-need-it
    > camera is a waterproof, disposable. Waterproof. Dust proof.
    > Small size. Low cost. No loss if stolen. Durable. Can be
    > processed and put on disk. Water/rain proof.


    I have one of those already.

    I'm looking for a rugged digital camera that is reasonable in
    price. And which brand to avoid.

    Thanks.
     
    Paulie, Nov 4, 2007
    #7
  8. Paulie wrote:
    []
    > I have one of those already.
    >
    > I'm looking for a rugged digital camera that is reasonable in
    > price. And which brand to avoid.
    >
    > Thanks.


    I have been very happy with Panasonic compact cameras, so I would suggest
    you don't avoid that brand. I would avoid brands which are not
    "well-known". I think the Panasonic TZ3 is reasonably rugged and
    reasonable in price, but it's not designed to be highly ruggedised - that
    would be inconsistent with "reasonable in price". Cameras are precision
    optical instruments (or they should be <G>) and should be treated
    accordingly to get the best out of them.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Nov 4, 2007
    #8
  9. Paulie

    Mr. Strat Guest

    In article <472dc4ca$0$7716$>,
    Paulie <> wrote:

    > 1) What camera brand to avoid?


    Sigma
     
    Mr. Strat, Nov 4, 2007
    #9
  10. Paulie

    Paul Allen Guest

    On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 07:03:47 -0700
    ray <> wrote:

    > On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:10:35 +0000, Paulie wrote:


    > > 1) What camera brand to avoid?

    >
    > [...] Personally, I avoid canon because of their
    > total lack of Linux support


    Really? I wasn't aware that Canon was any worse than the rest
    in this regard. Would you care to elaborate?

    > and I avoid Fuji for past business
    > practices. [...]


    I avoided them this last time around because they just seemed
    a bit strange. All of the camera makers seem to be in bed with
    the Microsoft monopoly. Has Fuji done something worse than that?
    :)

    Paul Allen
     
    Paul Allen, Nov 4, 2007
    #10
  11. Paulie

    ray Guest

    On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 12:10:36 -0800, Paul Allen wrote:

    > On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 07:03:47 -0700
    > ray <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:10:35 +0000, Paulie wrote:

    >
    >> > 1) What camera brand to avoid?

    >>
    >> [...] Personally, I avoid canon because of their
    >> total lack of Linux support

    >
    > Really? I wasn't aware that Canon was any worse than the rest
    > in this regard. Would you care to elaborate?


    Epson and HP support is quite good - e.g. avasys.jp/english carries the
    'iscan' software for Linux for using Epson scanners. Most HP printers do
    some form of PCL and work very well with Linux. I also have a Brother
    laser printer which works well.

    >
    >> and I avoid Fuji for past business
    >> practices. [...]

    >
    > I avoided them this last time around because they just seemed
    > a bit strange. All of the camera makers seem to be in bed with
    > the Microsoft monopoly. Has Fuji done something worse than that?
    > :)


    There were reports several years ago that they would not allow any
    Japanese store which handled Kodak supplies to handle any of their
    equipment - is that bad enough?


    >
    > Paul Allen
     
    ray, Nov 4, 2007
    #11
  12. Paulie

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 07:03:47 -0700, ray <> wrote:
    : On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:10:35 +0000, Paulie wrote:
    :
    : > I have 2 questions I hope you can answer.
    : >
    : > 1) What camera brand to avoid?
    :
    : Avoid for what reason? Personally, I avoid canon because of their total
    : lack of Linux support and I avoid Fuji for past business practices. Other
    : than that the world is my oyster. Caveats: I also avoid anything using
    : proprietary memory cards i.e. xd or memory stick - other than that, I'll
    : look at olympus and sony models - thinking stronly about a Sony Alpha.

    Out of curiosity, what "past business practices" of Fuji were worse than Sony
    installing OS-level spyware on the computers of their CD customers?

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Nov 5, 2007
    #12
  13. Paulie

    Paulie Guest

    "David J Taylor"
    <-this-bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk> wrote
    in news:tzoXi.42227$:

    > Paulie wrote:
    > []
    >> I have one of those already.
    >>
    >> I'm looking for a rugged digital camera that is reasonable in
    >> price. And which brand to avoid.
    >>
    >> Thanks.

    >
    > I have been very happy with Panasonic compact cameras, so I
    > would suggest you don't avoid that brand. I would avoid
    > brands which are not "well-known". I think the Panasonic TZ3
    > is reasonably rugged and reasonable in price, but it's not
    > designed to be highly ruggedised - that would be inconsistent
    > with "reasonable in price". Cameras are precision optical
    > instruments (or they should be <G>) and should be treated
    > accordingly to get the best out of them.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > David


    Thank your input. Appreciated!

    Cheers
     
    Paulie, Nov 5, 2007
    #13
  14. Paulie

    Paulie Guest

    "Mr. Strat" <> wrote in
    news:041120071141474884%:

    > In article
    > <472dc4ca$0$7716$>,
    > Paulie <> wrote:
    >
    >> 1) What camera brand to avoid?

    >
    > Sigma


    Thanks! Info appreciated.
     
    Paulie, Nov 5, 2007
    #14
  15. Paulie

    ray Guest

    On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 19:57:04 -0500, Robert Coe wrote:

    > On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 07:03:47 -0700, ray <> wrote:
    > : On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:10:35 +0000, Paulie wrote:
    > :
    > : > I have 2 questions I hope you can answer.
    > : >
    > : > 1) What camera brand to avoid?
    > :
    > : Avoid for what reason? Personally, I avoid canon because of their total
    > : lack of Linux support and I avoid Fuji for past business practices. Other
    > : than that the world is my oyster. Caveats: I also avoid anything using
    > : proprietary memory cards i.e. xd or memory stick - other than that, I'll
    > : look at olympus and sony models - thinking stronly about a Sony Alpha.
    >
    > Out of curiosity, what "past business practices" of Fuji were worse than Sony
    > installing OS-level spyware on the computers of their CD customers?
    >
    > Bob


    Attempting to deny Japanese customers any choice at all. Their policy was
    that any store selling any Kodak equipment could not sell Fuji. I guess
    that's their 'right' - it's also mine to not buy their stuff at all.
     
    ray, Nov 5, 2007
    #15
  16. Paulie

    Paul Allen Guest

    On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 15:39:25 -0700
    ray <> wrote:

    > On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 12:10:36 -0800, Paul Allen wrote:
    >
    > > On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 07:03:47 -0700
    > > ray <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:10:35 +0000, Paulie wrote:

    > >
    > >> > 1) What camera brand to avoid?
    > >>
    > >> [...] Personally, I avoid canon because of their
    > >> total lack of Linux support

    > >
    > > Really? I wasn't aware that Canon was any worse than the rest
    > > in this regard. Would you care to elaborate?

    >
    > Epson and HP support is quite good - e.g. avasys.jp/english carries
    > the 'iscan' software for Linux for using Epson scanners. Most HP
    > printers do some form of PCL and work very well with Linux. I also
    > have a Brother laser printer which works well.


    Silly me. I thought the subject was cameras. Do you avoid Canon
    cameras because they don't care if they sell printers or scanners
    to Linux users? That seems counterproductive.

    > >> and I avoid Fuji for past business
    > >> practices. [...]

    > >
    > > I avoided them this last time around because they just seemed
    > > a bit strange. All of the camera makers seem to be in bed with
    > > the Microsoft monopoly. Has Fuji done something worse than that?
    > > :)

    >
    > There were reports several years ago that they would not allow any
    > Japanese store which handled Kodak supplies to handle any of their
    > equipment - is that bad enough?


    Bad enough. Has Japan not got anti-trust laws? Oh, I forgot.
    Microsoft tried similar anti-competitive stuff in the US, and Bush
    mostly let them off the hook. I guess we don't have anti-trust
    laws either. :)

    Paul Allen
     
    Paul Allen, Nov 5, 2007
    #16
  17. Paulie

    Paul Allen Guest

    On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:28:09 GMT
    "Jürgen Exner" <> wrote:

    > Marvin wrote:
    > > Paulie wrote:
    > >> 2) I'm wanting to buy a camera under $200 to put in luggage or
    > >> car glove box. One that may take a bit of abuse.

    > >
    > > I doubt that any camera will stand up well to the high
    > > temperatures in a car's glove box in the summer.

    >
    > Very true for film, but AFAIK not an issue for digital.
    > Does anyone have a credible source to the contratry?


    I'd expect the sensor to be screaming with noise after baking
    in a car's glove box all afternoon. It would settle down after
    cooling off, but that would take a while.

    I'm not sure I'd want to test the temperature limits of Li-ion
    battery chemistry in my car's glove box. What do you say we
    do the experiment in *your* car? :)

    Paul Allen
     
    Paul Allen, Nov 5, 2007
    #17
  18. Paulie

    Guest

    On Nov 5, 2:17 pm, ray <> wrote:
    >
    > Attempting to deny Japanese customers any choice at all. Their policy was
    > that any store selling any Kodak equipment could not sell Fuji. I guess
    > that's their 'right' - it's also mine to not buy their stuff at all.


    How exactly is that denying them 'any choice at all'? Fuji and Kodak
    offer highly competing photographic processing systems, so I can
    imagine them (and Kodak) being fussy about what brands were carried
    by, say, a Fujicolour processing shop. I have visited many
    photographic stores and noticed quite popular brands very
    conspicuously absent (eg Pentax, Olympus, Kodak, Fuji) - and I've
    never thought of it as denying me my choices.. I have feet.

    And given that I don't think I have *ever* heard you recommending
    anything other than Kodak, up until this thread... I think the
    question of bias might be asked! Can you supply links/references to
    the practices being alleged? Would you perhaps be referring to the
    failed case by Kodak against Fuji at the WTO? Here's the Fuji take:
    http://www.fujifilm.co.jp/eng/special/sp022.html
    http://www.fujifilm.com/info/wto/index.html

    Although I think that was more about film, not surprisingly Fuji seem
    to think it was Kodak who were the naughty ones..! If you were
    referring to something else, please provide links.
     
    , Nov 5, 2007
    #18
  19. Paulie

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Jürgen Exner wrote:
    > Marvin wrote:
    >> Paulie wrote:
    >>> 2) I'm wanting to buy a camera under $200 to put in luggage or
    >>> car glove box. One that may take a bit of abuse.

    >> I doubt that any camera will stand up well to the high
    >> temperatures in a car's glove box in the summer.

    >
    > Very true for film, but AFAIK not an issue for digital.
    > Does anyone have a credible source to the contratry?
    >
    > jue
    >
    >

    Well, if one lives in the US southwest, temps in a car in the summer can
    top 160F, which would be bad for batteries. Shouldn't hurt the camera
    itself, but might generate noisier pictures until it cools.
     
    Ron Hunter, Nov 5, 2007
    #19
  20. Paulie

    ray Guest

    On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 02:30:07 -0800, mark.thomas.7 wrote:

    > On Nov 5, 2:17 pm, ray <> wrote:
    >>
    >> Attempting to deny Japanese customers any choice at all. Their policy was
    >> that any store selling any Kodak equipment could not sell Fuji. I guess
    >> that's their 'right' - it's also mine to not buy their stuff at all.

    >
    > How exactly is that denying them 'any choice at all'? Fuji and Kodak
    > offer highly competing photographic processing systems, so I can
    > imagine them (and Kodak) being fussy about what brands were carried
    > by, say, a Fujicolour processing shop. I have visited many
    > photographic stores and noticed quite popular brands very
    > conspicuously absent (eg Pentax, Olympus, Kodak, Fuji) - and I've
    > never thought of it as denying me my choices.. I have feet.
    >
    > And given that I don't think I have *ever* heard you recommending
    > anything other than Kodak, up until this thread... I think the
    > question of bias might be asked! Can you supply links/references to
    > the practices being alleged? Would you perhaps be referring to the
    > failed case by Kodak against Fuji at the WTO? Here's the Fuji take:
    > http://www.fujifilm.co.jp/eng/special/sp022.html
    > http://www.fujifilm.com/info/wto/index.html


    It was widely reported in the news media a number of years ago. If you'll
    carefully reread my previous posts, you'll find that I seldom recommen
    that a person buy a Kodak camera. I think they have some very stron
    points, especially in the now discontinued P series. I've used them as an
    example of a manufacturer which produces an EVF that I can stand to use -
    the woefully undersampled ones, I just can't abide. And for the record,
    there are now other manufacturers also making EVFs with decent resolution.


    >
    > Although I think that was more about film, not surprisingly Fuji seem
    > to think it was Kodak who were the naughty ones..! If you were
    > referring to something else, please provide links.


    The point is that Fuji was trying very hard to get a total monopoly in the
    Japanese market. Excuse me, but I don't like such tactics.
     
    ray, Nov 5, 2007
    #20
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