1Ds Mark II ease of use fore first time buyer?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Mike, Jan 30, 2004.

  1. Mike

    Mike Guest

    I have regular cameras (non pro) and have been real disappointed with the
    quality of the pictures etc.. and since my wife is pregnant I decided to get
    a pro camera to capture moments and get the same pictures I see the pros get
    with those cameras.Everytime I see photos a pro photographer takes with
    those high end SLR camera I am amazed at how nice they appear I figured this
    is worth the investments to get real nice pictures/memories along the way
    which would be irreplacable and money should be no object. I budgeted about
    5000 dollars for this new camera and lenses+accessories. What lenses do I
    need to get someone told me tokina zooms are nice and not very expensive.
    The 1D Mark II seems to have a DIGIC II computer that does most of the work.
    Is the 1D MArk II as easy to use as the regular cameras, is it basically
    turn on and select the different icons like
    auto,sunlight,cloudy,flash,sport? The camera by the pictures seem a little
    intimidating.
     
    Mike, Jan 30, 2004
    #1
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  2. Mike

    MikeWhy Guest

    "Mike" <> wrote in message
    news:bvcmo5$qrdig$-berlin.de...
    > I have regular cameras (non pro) and have been real disappointed with the
    > quality of the pictures etc.. and since my wife is pregnant I decided to

    get
    > a pro camera to capture moments and get the same pictures I see the pros

    get
    > with those cameras.Everytime I see photos a pro photographer takes with
    > those high end SLR camera I am amazed at how nice they appear I figured

    this
    > is worth the investments to get real nice pictures/memories along the way
    > which would be irreplacable and money should be no object. I budgeted

    about
    > 5000 dollars for this new camera and lenses+accessories. What lenses do I
    > need to get someone told me tokina zooms are nice and not very expensive.
    > The 1D Mark II seems to have a DIGIC II computer that does most of the

    work.
    > Is the 1D MArk II as easy to use as the regular cameras, is it basically
    > turn on and select the different icons like
    > auto,sunlight,cloudy,flash,sport? The camera by the pictures seem a little
    > intimidating.


    Lets see... ekiM doesn't mean anything to me. Is that for real, Mike?
     
    MikeWhy, Jan 30, 2004
    #2
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  3. Mike

    Mike Guest


    > Lets see... ekiM doesn't mean anything to me. Is that for real, Mike?


    I am confused what do you mean, I just a few questions for a first time
    purchase.
     
    Mike, Jan 30, 2004
    #3
  4. Mike wrote:
    >
    > > Lets see... ekiM doesn't mean anything to me. Is that for real, Mike?

    >
    > I am confused what do you mean, I just a few questions for a first time
    > purchase.


    Mike,
    No offense, but a lot of questions like this are being asked in this
    newsgroup, but they are by people wanting to stir up controversy,
    meaning trolls. Many spoof their email and spell their email
    backwards, like llort (troll). So is your question legitimate?

    The reason is that pros take good photos because of their skill
    and experience, not so much the camera they use. After all, putting
    a $10,000 wrench in a person's hand does not a car mechanic make;
    a $10,000 brush in a person's hand does not an artist make, etc.

    Then you ask about a cheap lens to put on a pro body. It simply
    smells of another troll.

    If you are truly interested in a good digital camera system and a
    $5k budget to photograph a new baby, my recommendation would be
    a canon or nikon dslr already on the market (like 10D or D100).
    As I'm familiar with Canon equipment, I'll suggest some
    (Nikon users can post equally good systems and I'll divert to them).

    Get a Canon 10D with a 28-135 IS zoom lens. You'll likely want 2
    1-GByte compact flash cards (but real fast ones, like Lexar 40x,
    currently $399). Buy a couple of extra batteries, a 540 flash,
    a good tripod and a good camera bag. This will set you back over
    $2-3k. Be sure you computer is up to speed, and if not,
    upgrade it with remaining money. A good photo printer too.
    If your computer is up to the task, buy some additional lenses.
    Stick with Canon L lenses, and IS is REALLY nice, and helps
    sharpness in hand-held shots. Do your shots at ISO 100 or 200,
    and only higher in very low light.

    Why DSLR? lens selection and low shutter lag are the main advantages.
    Would you want your baby's first step missed because the camera
    couldn't focus, determine exposure and take the picture fast enough?
    DSLRs are best in this regord (or regular film SLRs).

    Roger Clark
    Photos, digital info at:
    http://www.clarkvision.com
     
    Roger N. Clark, Jan 30, 2004
    #4
  5. Mike

    Lionel Guest

    Kibo informs me that "Mike" <> stated that:

    This *has* to be a troll. I also notice that he's posting from a free
    news server.

    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Lionel, Jan 30, 2004
    #5
  6. Mike wrote:

    >
    >> Lets see... ekiM doesn't mean anything to me. Is that for real, Mike?

    >
    > I am confused what do you mean, I just a few questions for a first time
    > purchase.


    First time purchase, eh? Then where did you get your other cameras? Given
    to you? Did you ever figure out how to use them?

    You want to spend $5k for gear, let that plasticy 35mm crap alone and let me
    sell you a real camera! Made of fine tropical hardwood with brass
    fittings, like the real pros use, but these require absolutely no knowledge
    to use and produce pictures that are always in focus. I can get you one of
    these for at least 10% less that you were prepared to waste on these new
    gaudy toys. Let me know, okay?

    Bill Tallman
     
    William D. Tallman, Jan 30, 2004
    #6
  7. Just as a note. Many people post from free services. Hell. I do when on
    the road and away from starbucks.

    "Lionel" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Kibo informs me that "Mike" <> stated that:
    >
    > This *has* to be a troll. I also notice that he's posting from a free
    > news server.
    >
    > --
    > W
    > . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    > \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    > ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Robert Meyers, Jan 30, 2004
    #7
  8. Mike

    Lionel Guest

    Kibo informs me that "Robert Meyers" <> stated
    that:

    >Just as a note. Many people post from free services. Hell. I do when on
    >the road and away from starbucks.


    Very true. (In fact, I noticed that it was a free server because it's
    one of the ones that I use myself.) It's just that the combination of a
    trollish content & a free server nearly always indicates a genuine
    troll, rather than just a clueless newbie.

    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Lionel, Jan 30, 2004
    #8
  9. I don't believe that any camera is quite as "easy" to use as its advertising
    might lead you to believe. When I purchased my Canon 10D, there was quite a
    learning curve, even when coming from the Oly E-20, a somewhat similar
    camera. And it seems that more sophisticated (and expensive) cameras leave
    more of the work up to the photographer-- Digic II might be very nice, but I
    found that those "dummy" modes in the 10D (sunlight, sports, etc) did not
    always produce the best pictures-- you really do need to learn how to use
    shutter priority, aperture priority and manual mode if you want to make your
    camera sing for you. My g/f produces very nice pictures right out-of-camera
    with her Sony 717--- with my 10D, a little more post-processing work is
    required (and I shoot 95% in RAW mode), but the payoff is worth it. Have
    fun with whatever new camera you decide on, and with the new baby as well
    :)


    "Mike" <> wrote in message
    news:bvcmo5$qrdig$-berlin.de...
    > I have regular cameras (non pro) and have been real disappointed with the
    > quality of the pictures etc.. and since my wife is pregnant I decided to

    get
    > a pro camera to capture moments and get the same pictures I see the pros

    get
    > with those cameras.Everytime I see photos a pro photographer takes with
    > those high end SLR camera I am amazed at how nice they appear I figured

    this
    > is worth the investments to get real nice pictures/memories along the way
    > which would be irreplacable and money should be no object. I budgeted

    about
    > 5000 dollars for this new camera and lenses+accessories. What lenses do I
    > need to get someone told me tokina zooms are nice and not very expensive.
    > The 1D Mark II seems to have a DIGIC II computer that does most of the

    work.
    > Is the 1D MArk II as easy to use as the regular cameras, is it basically
    > turn on and select the different icons like
    > auto,sunlight,cloudy,flash,sport? The camera by the pictures seem a little
    > intimidating.
    >
    >
     
    gilbert grape, Jan 30, 2004
    #9
  10. Mike

    The Dude Guest

    "Mike" <> wrote in message
    news:bvcmo5$qrdig$-berlin.de...
    > I have regular cameras (non pro) and have been real disappointed with the
    > quality of the pictures etc.. and since my wife is pregnant I decided to

    get
    > a pro camera to capture moments and get the same pictures I see the pros

    get
    > with those cameras.Everytime I see photos a pro photographer takes with
    > those high end SLR camera I am amazed at how nice they appear I figured

    this
    > is worth the investments to get real nice pictures/memories along the way
    > which would be irreplacable and money should be no object. I budgeted

    about
    > 5000 dollars for this new camera and lenses+accessories. What lenses do I
    > need to get someone told me tokina zooms are nice and not very expensive.
    > The 1D Mark II seems to have a DIGIC II computer that does most of the

    work.
    > Is the 1D MArk II as easy to use as the regular cameras, is it basically
    > turn on and select the different icons like
    > auto,sunlight,cloudy,flash,sport? The camera by the pictures seem a little
    > intimidating.


    The pro cams (1D, D1H, etc) are great but big honkin' cameras. Something in
    the 10D, D100 or even the 300D, D70 realm are better suited to general use.
    They are all very responsive, take great pictures, and are pleasing to use.
    Save some $$ on the body and get some nice glass, good flash, ample CF
    storage, monopod/tripod, bag, extra battery. You'll be at $5K in no time!
     
    The Dude, Jan 30, 2004
    #10
  11. Mike

    Adam M Guest

    On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:34:08 -0500, "Mike" <> wrote:

    >I have regular cameras (non pro) and have been real disappointed with the
    >quality of the pictures etc.. and since my wife is pregnant I decided to get
    >a pro camera to capture moments and get the same pictures I see the pros get
    >with those cameras.Everytime I see photos a pro photographer takes with
    >those high end SLR camera I am amazed at how nice they appear I figured this
    >is worth the investments to get real nice pictures/memories along the way
    >which would be irreplacable and money should be no object. I budgeted about
    >5000 dollars for this new camera and lenses+accessories. What lenses do I
    >need to get someone told me tokina zooms are nice and not very expensive.
    >The 1D Mark II seems to have a DIGIC II computer that does most of the work.
    >Is the 1D MArk II as easy to use as the regular cameras, is it basically
    >turn on and select the different icons like
    >auto,sunlight,cloudy,flash,sport? The camera by the pictures seem a little
    >intimidating.
    >


    When you say regular do you mean film?

    If so I would suggest the following for a first time Digital camera
    owner.
    Find a 3 to 5MP Point and Shoot Camera. Next enroll in some
    photography classes, and do some reading. This should cost you less
    than $1000 and result in some fantastic photos. I'm very happy with
    the pictures of my 6 month old son. I have a 2 MP digicam. If you
    decide the camera isn't good enough fine go buy an DSLR you will then
    have your pro setup and a nice family camera you take with you all the
    time. If you are happy with the Digicam great, take the 4 grand you
    saved and start a collage fund.

    Here is what I have learned so far:
    1. My wife will not use an SLR - to technical and to big.
    2. I take my little Digicam everywhere, because it fits in my pocket.
    3. It's the person pressing the button that makes great pictures not
    the camera.
    4. The 4x6 prints I get with a 2MP camera are every bit as good as the
    pictures I've taken with my SLR Pentax film camera.


    Adam M
     
    Adam M, Jan 30, 2004
    #11
  12. "gilbert grape" <> wrote in message
    news:xXsSb.2747$...
    > I don't believe that any camera is quite as "easy" to use as its

    advertising
    > might lead you to believe. When I purchased my Canon 10D, there was quite

    a
    > learning curve, even when coming from the Oly E-20, a somewhat similar
    > camera. And it seems that more sophisticated (and expensive) cameras

    leave
    > more of the work up to the photographer-- Digic II might be very nice, but

    I
    > found that those "dummy" modes in the 10D (sunlight, sports, etc) did not
    > always produce the best pictures-- you really do need to learn how to use
    > shutter priority, aperture priority and manual mode if you want to make

    your
    > camera sing for you. My g/f produces very nice pictures right

    out-of-camera
    > with her Sony 717--- with my 10D, a little more post-processing work is
    > required (and I shoot 95% in RAW mode), but the payoff is worth it. Have
    > fun with whatever new camera you decide on, and with the new baby as well
    > :)


    When I think moders DSLR I think... histogram? I don't know anything about
    it.

    Now I could give the camera to my fiance, and, DoF and focus will be off...
    maybe. But she would have perfect composition (cheater, she has been
    painting for pay for like 16 years; love her though).

    Robert Meyers
     
    Robert Meyers, Jan 30, 2004
    #12
  13. Mike

    Patrick L. Guest

    "Roger N. Clark" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Mike wrote:
    > >
    > > > Lets see... ekiM doesn't mean anything to me. Is that for real, Mike?

    > >
    > > I am confused what do you mean, I just a few questions for a first time
    > > purchase.

    >
    > Mike,
    > No offense, but a lot of questions like this are being asked in this
    > newsgroup, but they are by people wanting to stir up controversy,
    > meaning trolls. Many spoof their email and spell their email
    > backwards, like llort (troll). So is your question legitimate?
    >
    > The reason is that pros take good photos because of their skill
    > and experience, not so much the camera they use. After all, putting
    > a $10,000 wrench in a person's hand does not a car mechanic make;
    > a $10,000 brush in a person's hand does not an artist make, etc.
    >
    > Then you ask about a cheap lens to put on a pro body. It simply
    > smells of another troll.
    >
    > If you are truly interested in a good digital camera system and a
    > $5k budget to photograph a new baby, my recommendation would be
    > a canon or nikon dslr already on the market (like 10D or D100).
    > As I'm familiar with Canon equipment, I'll suggest some
    > (Nikon users can post equally good systems and I'll divert to them).
    >
    > Get a Canon 10D with a 28-135 IS zoom lens. You'll likely want 2
    > 1-GByte compact flash cards (but real fast ones, like Lexar 40x,
    > currently $399). Buy a couple of extra batteries, a 540 flash,
    > a good tripod and a good camera bag. This will set you back over
    > $2-3k. Be sure you computer is up to speed, and if not,
    > upgrade it with remaining money. A good photo printer too.
    > If your computer is up to the task, buy some additional lenses.
    > Stick with Canon L lenses, and IS is REALLY nice, and helps
    > sharpness in hand-held shots. Do your shots at ISO 100 or 200,
    > and only higher in very low light.
    >
    > Why DSLR? lens selection and low shutter lag are the main advantages.
    > Would you want your baby's first step missed because the camera
    > couldn't focus, determine exposure and take the picture fast enough?
    > DSLRs are best in this regord (or regular film SLRs).
    >
    > Roger Clark
    > Photos, digital info at:
    > http://www.clarkvision.com



    Why should he spend all that money just to get a pro picture?.

    Learn on an old manual Nikon or Canon, and some fast primes, a quality flash
    unit, and you can certainly get a pro pix on an old camera once you learn
    the fundamentals.

    I always tell people, that if they want to learn photography, learn film
    first. Every photographer I know knows that you don't need an expensive
    rig to get a pro shot.

    My brother uses a Nikon 8008 for stock, and licenses images, no problem.



    Patrick
     
    Patrick L., Jan 30, 2004
    #13
  14. Mike

    Annika1980 Guest

    >From: "Patrick L."

    >I always tell people, that if they want to learn photography, learn film
    >first.


    That's probably because you learned on film.

    The local college here has a two-year course in Photography. Most of the first
    year is spent doing B&W and darkroom work. Now that was great in 1965, but
    it's about as far away from the normal photographer's workflow today as you can
    get.

    Who has a darkroom and prints their own pics anymore?
    Why would you want to?

    It's a new day....
     
    Annika1980, Jan 30, 2004
    #14
  15. "Annika1980" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >From: "Patrick L."

    >
    > >I always tell people, that if they want to learn photography, learn

    film
    > >first.

    >
    > That's probably because you learned on film.
    >
    > The local college here has a two-year course in Photography. Most

    of the first
    > year is spent doing B&W and darkroom work. Now that was great in

    1965, but
    > it's about as far away from the normal photographer's workflow today

    as you can
    > get.


    If its like the program I graduated from, it may be a comprehensive
    photography program. My program was for everyone from photographers
    to lab techs.

    > Who has a darkroom and prints their own pics anymore?


    Many people.

    > Why would you want to?


    Because there is something more artisitc and organic about
    manipulating a stream of light with you bare hands to dodge and burn.
    The end result may be the same, but the enjoyment of the process is
    very different.
     
    The Black Sheep, Jan 30, 2004
    #15
  16. Mike

    Charlie Self Guest

    The Black Sheep responds:

    >> Who has a darkroom and prints their own pics anymore?

    >
    >Many people.
    >
    >> Why would you want to?

    >
    >Because there is something more artisitc and organic about
    >manipulating a stream of light with you bare hands to dodge and burn.
    >The end result may be the same, but the enjoyment of the process is
    >very different.


    Maybe. My last darkroom stint was somewhat forced, as I'd come off knee surgery
    a day before I started printing 250 black and white shots for a book. My
    publisher insisted I not wait 2 weeks, so I spent I can't recall how many hours
    on a concrete floor whacking out the 5x7s, without any thought of artistic
    merit. In fact, about 70% were slightly out of focus and lacking in contrast,
    something the publisher never seemed to notice. I noted that the knee had to be
    re-done a year later.

    I haven't been back in the darkroom since, and finally sold the gear about 3-4
    years ago. I also don't do work for that publisher any more,

    Charlie Self
    "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is
    sure."
    Mark Twain
    http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
     
    Charlie Self, Jan 30, 2004
    #16
  17. "Mike" <> wrote in message news:<bvcmo5$qrdig$-berlin.de>...
    > and since my wife is pregnant I decided to get a pro camera to capture
    > moments and get the same pictures I see the pros get with those cameras.


    I don't think a high end DSLR will be something you'll be able to whip out
    of your pocket to catch moments. They are big. They are luggy. If you
    want good results, you'll want a 540EX or similar flash.
     
    William Wallace, Jan 30, 2004
    #17
  18. Mike

    Robertwgross Guest

    William wrote:
    >I don't think a high end DSLR will be something you'll be able to whip out
    >of your pocket to catch moments. They are big. They are luggy. If you
    >want good results, you'll want a 540EX or similar flash.


    The 540EZ will not do it, but the 550EX will.

    ---Bob Gross---
     
    Robertwgross, Jan 30, 2004
    #18
  19. Robert Meyers wrote:

    > Just as a note. Many people post from free services. Hell. I do when on
    > the road and away from starbucks.
    >
    > "Lionel" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Kibo informs me that "Mike" <> stated that:
    >>
    >> This *has* to be a troll. I also notice that he's posting from a free
    >> news server.


    (Please do not top-post. Thank you.)

    You might also note that the address was spoofed. Do you suppose that there
    really exists such an address at aol.com? So far as I know, aol.com
    addresses are a bit more complex than "".

    So there is nothing in the OP that indicates otherwise than "troll".

    Bill Tallman
     
    William D. Tallman, Jan 30, 2004
    #19
  20. Mike

    MikeWhy Guest

    "Mike" <> wrote in message
    news:bvcp86$qa40t$-berlin.de...
    >
    > > Lets see... ekiM doesn't mean anything to me. Is that for real, Mike?

    >
    > I am confused what do you mean, I just a few questions for a first time
    > purchase.


    Then here's some sincere advice. You don't need a 1D-II to make good
    pictures, but I won't try to talk you out of it. The truth of the matter is,
    you'll hate whatever else you might buy if I gave you that advice. Everytime
    a picture comes out less than perfect, you would look back and think I told
    you wrong. So, if you truly can afford it, and seeing as how it's tugging on
    your heart strings, by all means you should go and buy it. From the specs
    and my previous experience with Canon digital and film cameras, it will be a
    stellar performer. You can get by with less, but I don't sense that's what
    this is about. Likewise, you would be hard pressed to find better. I want
    one, too, but it's not on the top of my hit list yet.

    Mike.
     
    MikeWhy, Jan 31, 2004
    #20
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