180 day credit

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by {{{{{Welcome}}}}}, Jan 10, 2006.

  1. Have just received two emails, one from VoIP Cheap and one from VoIP Buster,
    both saying:

    credit is valid for 180 days.

    Your credit will expire in February.
    We advise you to use your credit before it expires and/or buy new credit* so
    your current credit will not expire.

    * buying new credit is only possible if you have a small credit left on your
    account.

    So what they are saying is, you have 180 days from topping up to use all your
    credit!



    This is the first email from them about this and strange as I have been with
    VoIP Buster for around 8/9 months.
     
    {{{{{Welcome}}}}}, Jan 10, 2006
    #1
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  2. {{{{{Welcome}}}}}

    Ian Guest

    "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:hqQwf.23890$...
    > Have just received two emails, one from VoIP Cheap and one from VoIP

    Buster,
    > both saying:
    >
    > credit is valid for 180 days.
    >
    > Your credit will expire in February.
    > We advise you to use your credit before it expires and/or buy new credit*

    so
    > your current credit will not expire.
    >
    > * buying new credit is only possible if you have a small credit left on

    your
    > account.
    >
    > So what they are saying is, you have 180 days from topping up to use all

    your
    > credit!
    >
    >
    >
    > This is the first email from them about this and strange as I have been

    with
    > VoIP Buster for around 8/9 months.
    >


    You should keep upto date with their T&Cs this has been on the cards for a
    while.

    BTW how did you think they were going to make money ?
     
    Ian, Jan 10, 2006
    #2
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  3. {{{{{Welcome}}}}}

    John DH Guest

    I have accounts with both and not recieved any emails like yours. However,
    if this is true then I'm off. There are other deals around which do not have
    minimum spends.

    Is it just possible that those emails you heve recieved are spoofs?

    John DH


    "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:hqQwf.23890$...
    > Have just received two emails, one from VoIP Cheap and one from VoIP

    Buster,
    > both saying:
    >
    > credit is valid for 180 days.
    >
    > Your credit will expire in February.
    > We advise you to use your credit before it expires and/or buy new credit*

    so
    > your current credit will not expire.
    >
    > * buying new credit is only possible if you have a small credit left on

    your
    > account.
    >
    > So what they are saying is, you have 180 days from topping up to use all

    your
    > credit!
    >
    >
    >
    > This is the first email from them about this and strange as I have been

    with
    > VoIP Buster for around 8/9 months.
    >
     
    John DH, Jan 10, 2006
    #3
  4. {{{{{Welcome}}}}}

    Ivor Jones Guest

    "Ian" <spam"AT"bathfordhill.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:

    [snip]

    > You should keep upto date with their T&Cs this has been
    > on the cards for a while.
    >
    > BTW how did you think they were going to make money ?


    How does Sipgate make money..? Their credit doesn't expire.


    Ivor
     
    Ivor Jones, Jan 10, 2006
    #4
  5. {{{{{Welcome}}}}}

    GwG Guest

    "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk> wrote in
    message news:hqQwf.23890$...
    > Have just received two emails, one from VoIP Cheap and one from VoIP
    > Buster, both saying:
    >
    > credit is valid for 180 days.
    >
    > Your credit will expire in February.
    > We advise you to use your credit before it expires and/or buy new
    > credit* so your current credit will not expire.
    >
    > * buying new credit is only possible if you have a small credit left
    > on your account.
    >
    > So what they are saying is, you have 180 days from topping up to use
    > all your credit!
    >


    Just had one from Voipbuster, and I have sent them the following message
    from their website, perhaps everyone should do the same, and get this
    attempted rip off stopped in its tracks.

    <Quote> I have just received your email about my credit expiring in
    February. If you expect me to spend money buying further credits in
    this, or any of your other enterprises, only to have it stolen from me
    at a later date, then you had better think again.</Quote>
     
    GwG, Jan 10, 2006
    #5
  6. {{{{{Welcome}}}}}

    Ian Guest

    "Ivor Jones" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > "Ian" <spam"AT"bathfordhill.co.uk> wrote in message
    > news:
    >
    > [snip]
    >
    > > You should keep upto date with their T&Cs this has been
    > > on the cards for a while.
    > >
    > > BTW how did you think they were going to make money ?

    >
    > How does Sipgate make money..? Their credit doesn't expire.
    >

    OK
    1. They dont have free destinations
    2. They bill by the minute, and buy by the second
    3. They charge more for popular routes EG UK and German Mobiles.

    Whereas finarea give "free" destinations, and their revenue is partly based
    on income from the "credits" that they bank.
    As they well know people use them for the free destinations.
     
    Ian, Jan 10, 2006
    #6
  7. {{{{{Welcome}}}}}

    Ivor Jones Guest

    "Ian" <spam"AT"bathfordhill.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:
    > "Ivor Jones" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > >
    > > "Ian" <spam"AT"bathfordhill.co.uk> wrote in message
    > > news:
    > >
    > > [snip]
    > >
    > > > You should keep upto date with their T&Cs this has
    > > > been on the cards for a while.
    > > >
    > > > BTW how did you think they were going to make money ?

    > >
    > > How does Sipgate make money..? Their credit doesn't
    > > expire.
    > >

    > OK
    > 1. They dont have free destinations


    Not a problem. I'd rather pay per call than for destinations that I may
    never call. That's why my mobile is PAYG rather than a contract including
    hundreds of "free" minutes that I'll never use.

    > 2. They bill by the minute, and buy by the second


    Ok, if it means I don't have to pay line rental that's fine by me. Most of
    my calls are less than 1 or 2 minutes anyway.

    > 3. They charge more for popular routes EG UK and German
    > Mobiles.


    I use my mobile to call other mobiles. Never call overseas mobiles anyway
    except sometimes one in the US but that's the same as a landline.

    > Whereas finarea give "free" destinations, and their
    > revenue is partly based on income from the "credits" that
    > they bank.
    > As they well know people use them for the free
    > destinations.


    Which is why Sipgate suits me fine..!

    Ivor
     
    Ivor Jones, Jan 10, 2006
    #7
  8. "GwG" <> wrote in message
    news:wpTwf.31921$...
    >
    > "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
    > news:hqQwf.23890$...
    >> Have just received two emails, one from VoIP Cheap and one from VoIP
    >> Buster, both saying:
    >>
    >> credit is valid for 180 days.
    >>
    >> Your credit will expire in February.
    >> We advise you to use your credit before it expires and/or buy new credit*
    >> so your current credit will not expire.
    >>
    >> * buying new credit is only possible if you have a small credit left on
    >> your account.
    >>
    >> So what they are saying is, you have 180 days from topping up to use all
    >> your credit!
    >>

    >
    > Just had one from Voipbuster, and I have sent them the following message
    > from their website, perhaps everyone should do the same, and get this
    > attempted rip off stopped in its tracks.
    >
    > <Quote> I have just received your email about my credit expiring in
    > February. If you expect me to spend money buying further credits in this,
    > or any of your other enterprises, only to have it stolen from me at a
    > later date, then you had better think again.</Quote>


    Repeat after me

    The ain't no such thing as a free lunch. The interest on a £10 (or whatever
    the minimum topup is) is not going to cover the running costs even of the
    "free" services of a voip provider.

    Also read carefully what was originally written - if you top-up every 180
    days you effectively re-enable any credit left on your account.

    Furthermore - what do you think the reasonable period after you last made
    (paid) use of their services for them to hold your account open is?

    1 year
    10 years
    100 years?

    At what point can they finally decide that money left in "unused" accounts
    no longer needs to appear as a liability on their balance sheets?

    --
    Thomas Sandford
     
    Thomas Sandford, Jan 10, 2006
    #8
  9. {{{{{Welcome}}}}}

    GwG Guest

    "Thomas Sandford" <${thomas/03$}@paradisegreen.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:43c40bf4$0$87295$...
    >
    > "GwG" <> wrote in message
    > news:wpTwf.31921$...
    >>
    >> "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk> wrote in
    >> message news:hqQwf.23890$...
    >>> Have just received two emails, one from VoIP Cheap and one from VoIP
    >>> Buster, both saying:
    >>>
    >>> credit is valid for 180 days.
    >>>
    >>> Your credit will expire in February.
    >>> We advise you to use your credit before it expires and/or buy new
    >>> credit* so your current credit will not expire.
    >>>
    >>> * buying new credit is only possible if you have a small credit left
    >>> on your account.
    >>>
    >>> So what they are saying is, you have 180 days from topping up to use
    >>> all your credit!
    >>>

    >>
    >> Just had one from Voipbuster, and I have sent them the following
    >> message from their website, perhaps everyone should do the same, and
    >> get this attempted rip off stopped in its tracks.
    >>
    >> <Quote> I have just received your email about my credit expiring in
    >> February. If you expect me to spend money buying further credits in
    >> this, or any of your other enterprises, only to have it stolen from
    >> me at a later date, then you had better think again.</Quote>

    >
    > Repeat after me
    >
    > The ain't no such thing as a free lunch. The interest on a £10 (or
    > whatever the minimum topup is) is not going to cover the running costs
    > even of the "free" services of a voip provider.
    >
    > Also read carefully what was originally written - if you top-up every
    > 180 days you effectively re-enable any credit left on your account.
    >
    > Furthermore - what do you think the reasonable period after you last
    > made (paid) use of their services for them to hold your account open
    > is?
    >
    > 1 year
    > 10 years
    > 100 years?
    >
    > At what point can they finally decide that money left in "unused"
    > accounts no longer needs to appear as a liability on their balance
    > sheets?
    >


    I have no problem with credit expiring after 180 days if the account is
    not used, (this is similar with mobile phones), but accounts that are
    used should remain in credit, whether topped up or not, (like with
    mobile phones). Some PAYG mobile phones used to be based on a similar
    system, where you lost any unused credit if you did not keep adding
    more, and they had to change it to keep customers who disagreed with
    being ripped off. My main objection is with how they are starting to
    move the goalposts to try and collect unused money from our accounts.
    How long before the minimum credit is upped to £50, forcing users to
    either pay up, or lose any credit from when they increased it the
    previous time, say from £20.
     
    GwG, Jan 10, 2006
    #9
  10. {{{{{Welcome}}}}}

    Brian A Guest

    On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:59:38 GMT, "GwG"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"Thomas Sandford" <${thomas/03$}@paradisegreen.co.uk> wrote in message
    >news:43c40bf4$0$87295$...
    >>
    >> "GwG" <> wrote in message
    >> news:wpTwf.31921$...
    >>>
    >>> "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk> wrote in
    >>> message news:hqQwf.23890$...
    >>>> Have just received two emails, one from VoIP Cheap and one from VoIP
    >>>> Buster, both saying:
    >>>>
    >>>> credit is valid for 180 days.
    >>>>
    >>>> Your credit will expire in February.
    >>>> We advise you to use your credit before it expires and/or buy new
    >>>> credit* so your current credit will not expire.
    >>>>
    >>>> * buying new credit is only possible if you have a small credit left
    >>>> on your account.
    >>>>
    >>>> So what they are saying is, you have 180 days from topping up to use
    >>>> all your credit!
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Just had one from Voipbuster, and I have sent them the following
    >>> message from their website, perhaps everyone should do the same, and
    >>> get this attempted rip off stopped in its tracks.
    >>>
    >>> <Quote> I have just received your email about my credit expiring in
    >>> February. If you expect me to spend money buying further credits in
    >>> this, or any of your other enterprises, only to have it stolen from
    >>> me at a later date, then you had better think again.</Quote>

    >>
    >> Repeat after me
    >>
    >> The ain't no such thing as a free lunch. The interest on a £10 (or
    >> whatever the minimum topup is) is not going to cover the running costs
    >> even of the "free" services of a voip provider.
    >>
    >> Also read carefully what was originally written - if you top-up every
    >> 180 days you effectively re-enable any credit left on your account.
    >>
    >> Furthermore - what do you think the reasonable period after you last
    >> made (paid) use of their services for them to hold your account open
    >> is?
    >>
    >> 1 year
    >> 10 years
    >> 100 years?
    >>
    >> At what point can they finally decide that money left in "unused"
    >> accounts no longer needs to appear as a liability on their balance
    >> sheets?
    >>

    >
    >I have no problem with credit expiring after 180 days if the account is
    >not used, (this is similar with mobile phones), but accounts that are
    >used should remain in credit, whether topped up or not, (like with
    >mobile phones). Some PAYG mobile phones used to be based on a similar
    >system, where you lost any unused credit if you did not keep adding
    >more, and they had to change it to keep customers who disagreed with
    >being ripped off. My main objection is with how they are starting to
    >move the goalposts to try and collect unused money from our accounts.
    >How long before the minimum credit is upped to £50, forcing users to
    >either pay up, or lose any credit from when they increased it the
    >previous time, say from £20.
    >

    I don't believe in expring credt full stop unless one is informed in
    advance of making a purchase - then I wouldn't do it - free calls or
    not. New changes such as that can be applied to new customers who are
    informed in advance - otherwise it is plainly robbery in my view.
    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
     
    Brian A, Jan 10, 2006
    #10
  11. {{{{{Welcome}}}}}

    paul123 Guest

    Seems that there are quite a lot of annoyed customers as a result of
    these emails from voipbuster. Not only here, but also on this thread on
    the recently revived voipbuster forums:
    https://www.voipbuster.com:443/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2559
    (you'll have to log in with your username/password)

    Just wanted to add my voice to what seems to be a consensus of opinion
    here - changing the terms and conditions every couple of
    days/weeks/months just aint on and I'm sure they are going to lose a
    lot of current and potential customers as a result! I say potential
    because a lot of people will do some research before paying up...

    Having said that....they are effectively giving you 6 months unlimited
    calling (to those free destinations) for just under €2 a month with a
    voip-in number... which is not a bad deal. What will change next week
    though?!?!

    Paul
     
    paul123, Jan 11, 2006
    #11
  12. {{{{{Welcome}}}}}

    Andrew Crane Guest

    "Ivor Jones" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > > 2. They bill by the minute, and buy by the second

    >
    > Ok, if it means I don't have to pay line rental that's fine by me. Most of
    > my calls are less than 1 or 2 minutes anyway.


    That makes this more of an issue rather than less of an issue...

    > I use my mobile to call other mobiles. Never call overseas mobiles anyway
    > except sometimes one in the US but that's the same as a landline.
    >
    > > Whereas finarea give "free" destinations, and their
    > > revenue is partly based on income from the "credits" that
    > > they bank.
    > > As they well know people use them for the free
    > > destinations.

    >
    > Which is why Sipgate suits me fine..!


    (we never would have known Ivor :)

    I guess the expiry of the cards is more for accounting and VAT reasons than
    anything else.

    Regards
    Andrew


    --
    Inweb Networks. Quality internet and telecoms services
    Sales: 08000 612222 Support: 08704322222. http://www.inweb.co.uk
    E1 call share. 0800, 0845 and 0870 numbers - best rates. Resellers welcome
     
    Andrew Crane, Jan 11, 2006
    #12
  13. {{{{{Welcome}}}}}

    Brian A Guest

    On 11 Jan 2006 02:46:30 -0800, "paul123" <> wrote:

    >Seems that there are quite a lot of annoyed customers as a result of
    >these emails from voipbuster. Not only here, but also on this thread on
    >the recently revived voipbuster forums:
    >https://www.voipbuster.com:443/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2559
    >(you'll have to log in with your username/password)
    >
    >Just wanted to add my voice to what seems to be a consensus of opinion
    >here - changing the terms and conditions every couple of
    >days/weeks/months just aint on and I'm sure they are going to lose a
    >lot of current and potential customers as a result! I say potential
    >because a lot of people will do some research before paying up...
    >
    >Having said that....they are effectively giving you 6 months unlimited
    >calling (to those free destinations) for just under €2 a month with a
    >voip-in number... which is not a bad deal. What will change next week
    >though?!?!
    >
    >Paul

    This is true for those who wish to call the current free destinations.
    Shortly after I signed up they knocked Australia and UK off the list
    and that was the end of places I wanted to call for free.
    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
     
    Brian A, Jan 11, 2006
    #13
  14. {{{{{Welcome}}}}}

    paul123 Guest

    I see it's a 120 day cutoff point in VoipStunt.

    "Credit in your account remains valid for 120 days after your last
    purchase.
    Credit balances on accounts with no activity during a 120 day period
    will be lost." - from the add credit link.

    Hmm.
     
    paul123, Jan 11, 2006
    #14
  15. {{{{{Welcome}}}}}

    Ivor Jones Guest

    "paul123" <> wrote in message
    news:
    > I see it's a 120 day cutoff point in VoipStunt.
    >
    > "Credit in your account remains valid for 120 days after
    > your last purchase.
    > Credit balances on accounts with no activity during a 120
    > day period will be lost." - from the add credit link.


    But does that "no activity" mean making calls or is it ok if you just use
    it for incoming calls..?

    Ivor
     
    Ivor Jones, Jan 11, 2006
    #15
  16. {{{{{Welcome}}}}}

    paul123 Guest

    Bit ambiguous isn't it?

    Paul
     
    paul123, Jan 11, 2006
    #16
  17. {{{{{Welcome}}}}}

    Brian A Guest

    On 11 Jan 2006 09:03:05 -0800, "paul123" <> wrote:

    >Bit ambiguous isn't it?
    >
    >Paul

    and...does it mean that you have to use credit on 'pay for' calls and
    that free calls only don't count. Anyway, after losing out on
    voipbuster I haven't paid anything to voipstunt - I've had a free call
    to OZ and some free UK calls to make up for voipbuster though.

    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
     
    Brian A, Jan 11, 2006
    #17
  18. {{{{{Welcome}}}}}

    Martin² Guest

    Ivor:
    >But does that "no activity" mean making calls or is it ok if you just use
    >it for incoming calls..?


    From http://doulos.wordpress.com/technical-information/finarea/

    Also, credit expiration after 180 days (see next section) encourages users
    to call non-free destinations or forfeit their credit — this also
    constitutes revenue for the company.

    Over time, the information given in the FAQ pages for the services
    concerning pre-paid credit and how long it would remain valid has changed.
    Initially, there was no mention of any expiration; then it changed to “180
    days after your last call”, then to “180 days after your last charged call”,
    and now it says “180 days after your last purchase“, which I take to mean
    your last credit top-up.


    Regards,
    Martin
     
    Martin², Jan 12, 2006
    #18
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