15000 foot home

Discussion in 'Wireless Networking' started by KT, Dec 17, 2004.

  1. KT

    KT Guest

    I have a client who wants to be able to use his existing wireless network
    (Linksys 54G) from one end of his house to the other (HUGE HOME with PLENTY
    of barrier). We have tried putting in the Linksys Booster/Repeater, but it
    did NOT do anything at all.

    Any suggestions to get Wireless to work this way? And please it must be
    wireless.
     
    KT, Dec 17, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. KT

    Jack Guest

    Hi
    I doubt that under the condition described by you a regular Wireless would
    work (the booster/repeaters are solution to extract few feet here and
    there).

    Basically 15000' might be achieved with clear line of sight and two good
    directional Antennae.

    Since you do not have Line of Site you have to create one with Towers or
    Relay Stations.

    In other words it can be done special expensive installation.

    Look at the following pages it would explain the basic ideas of Bridging.

    Extending Distance: http://www.ezlan.net/Distance.html

    Wireless Bridging: http://www.ezlan.net/bridging1.html

    Jack (MVP-Networking).



    "KT" <> wrote in message
    news:Oetwd.843$...
    > I have a client who wants to be able to use his existing wireless network
    > (Linksys 54G) from one end of his house to the other (HUGE HOME with

    PLENTY
    > of barrier). We have tried putting in the Linksys Booster/Repeater, but

    it
    > did NOT do anything at all.
    >
    > Any suggestions to get Wireless to work this way? And please it must be
    > wireless.
    >
    >
     
    Jack, Dec 17, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. You will probably need to install a number of access points in various parts
    of the house and hardwire them together.

    Mike Schumann

    "KT" <> wrote in message
    news:Oetwd.843$...
    >I have a client who wants to be able to use his existing wireless network
    >(Linksys 54G) from one end of his house to the other (HUGE HOME with PLENTY
    >of barrier). We have tried putting in the Linksys Booster/Repeater, but it
    >did NOT do anything at all.
    >
    > Any suggestions to get Wireless to work this way? And please it must be
    > wireless.
    >
     
    Mike Schumann, Dec 17, 2004
    #3
  4. KT

    Malke Guest

    Jack wrote:

    > Hi
    > I doubt that under the condition described by you a regular Wireless
    > would work (the booster/repeaters are solution to extract few feet
    > here and there).
    >
    > Basically 15000' might be achieved with clear line of sight and two
    > good directional Antennae.
    >
    > Since you do not have Line of Site you have to create one with Towers
    > or Relay Stations.
    >
    > In other words it can be done special expensive installation.
    >
    > Look at the following pages it would explain the basic ideas of
    > Bridging.
    >
    > Extending Distance: http://www.ezlan.net/Distance.html
    >
    > Wireless Bridging: http://www.ezlan.net/bridging1.html
    >
    > Jack (MVP-Networking).
    >
    >
    >
    > "KT" <> wrote in message
    > news:Oetwd.843$...
    >> I have a client who wants to be able to use his existing wireless
    >> network (Linksys 54G) from one end of his house to the other (HUGE
    >> HOME with

    > PLENTY
    >> of barrier). We have tried putting in the Linksys Booster/Repeater,
    >> but

    > it
    >> did NOT do anything at all.
    >>
    >> Any suggestions to get Wireless to work this way? And please it must
    >> be wireless.
    >>
    >>


    In addition to what Jack said, I also had a client recently where we
    installed a wireless router. Their house wasn't quite as big as your
    client's - "only" 11,000 sq. ft. Really, really big. We looked into
    getting an omni directional antenna. The one we looked at for the
    client was a 4 ft. high "stick" that attached to one of the router's
    antennas (you need a router where you can unscrew the existing one).
    You can either build a stand for the antenna or hang it from the
    ceiling. Our client wasn't interested in that, so we dropped it.

    Here's the one we were looking at, but there are others (and of course I
    don't know where you live - I'm in the US):
    http://www.radiolabs.com/products/antennas/2.4gig/11dbomni.php

    If you Google for "omni directional antenna", you'll get some more
    ideas. Charge a lot, and make sure not to make *any* guarantees because
    no one will guarantee that the wireless signal will get everywhere in
    the house because it is so dependent on location, what the signal has
    to pass through, etc.

    Good luck.
    --
    MS-MVP Windows User/Shell
    Elephant Boy Computers
    www.elephantboycomputers.com
    "Don't Panic"
     
    Malke, Dec 17, 2004
    #4
  5. Jack wrote:
    > Hi
    > I doubt that under the condition described by you a regular Wireless would
    > work (the booster/repeaters are solution to extract few feet here and
    > there).
    >
    > Basically 15000' might be achieved with clear line of sight and two good
    > directional Antennae.

    <snip>

    I think he meant "square feet".
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=, Dec 17, 2004
    #5
  6. Try this idea: http://techbuilder.org/article.htm?ArticleID=51071

    Carey

    "KT" <> wrote in message
    news:Oetwd.843$...
    >I have a client who wants to be able to use his existing wireless network
    >(Linksys 54G) from one end of his house to the other (HUGE HOME with PLENTY
    >of barrier). We have tried putting in the Linksys Booster/Repeater, but it
    >did NOT do anything at all.
    >
    > Any suggestions to get Wireless to work this way? And please it must be
    > wireless.
    >
     
    Carey Holzman, Dec 17, 2004
    #6
  7. KT

    Alan Wen Guest

    Wow, I been looking at something like this...but here's a question. Based
    on that suggestion for Powerline networking or extending, does it require a
    PC dedicated for the powerline adapters? Or is it required just to
    configure them then you can turn of that machine you used to configure?

    What I plan is this -

    (1) Install an wireless access point/router to the cable modem
    (2) Install 2-3 powerline adapters
    (3) On the third powerline adapter (other end of the house), hang off the
    second wireless access point.

    The main thing here is that hopefully that you do not need the machine to
    stay on (the one used to configure the powerline adapters). Can someone
    clarify this?



    "Carey Holzman" <> wrote in message
    news:%23bpWtd$...
    > Try this idea: http://techbuilder.org/article.htm?ArticleID=51071
    >
    > Carey
    >
    > "KT" <> wrote in message
    > news:Oetwd.843$...
    >>I have a client who wants to be able to use his existing wireless network
    >>(Linksys 54G) from one end of his house to the other (HUGE HOME with
    >>PLENTY of barrier). We have tried putting in the Linksys
    >>Booster/Repeater, but it did NOT do anything at all.
    >>
    >> Any suggestions to get Wireless to work this way? And please it must be
    >> wireless.
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Alan Wen, Dec 17, 2004
    #7
  8. I don't know enough about it, but in the forums where that article is posted
    you can leave a question and perhaps the author of that article will answer
    it.

    Or maybe someone here knows...

    "Alan Wen" <> wrote in message
    news:l7uwd.854$...
    > Wow, I been looking at something like this...but here's a question. Based
    > on that suggestion for Powerline networking or extending, does it require
    > a PC dedicated for the powerline adapters? Or is it required just to
    > configure them then you can turn of that machine you used to configure?
    >
    > What I plan is this -
    >
    > (1) Install an wireless access point/router to the cable modem
    > (2) Install 2-3 powerline adapters
    > (3) On the third powerline adapter (other end of the house), hang off the
    > second wireless access point.
    >
    > The main thing here is that hopefully that you do not need the machine to
    > stay on (the one used to configure the powerline adapters). Can someone
    > clarify this?
    >
    >
    >
    > "Carey Holzman" <> wrote in message
    > news:%23bpWtd$...
    >> Try this idea: http://techbuilder.org/article.htm?ArticleID=51071
    >>
    >> Carey
    >>
    >> "KT" <> wrote in message
    >> news:Oetwd.843$...
    >>>I have a client who wants to be able to use his existing wireless network
    >>>(Linksys 54G) from one end of his house to the other (HUGE HOME with
    >>>PLENTY of barrier). We have tried putting in the Linksys
    >>>Booster/Repeater, but it did NOT do anything at all.
    >>>
    >>> Any suggestions to get Wireless to work this way? And please it must be
    >>> wireless.
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Carey Holzman, Dec 17, 2004
    #8
  9. On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 04:27:26 GMT, "KT" <> wrote:

    >I have a client who wants to be able to use his existing wireless network
    >(Linksys 54G) from one end of his house to the other (HUGE HOME with PLENTY
    >of barrier). We have tried putting in the Linksys Booster/Repeater, but it
    >did NOT do anything at all.


    Power amps don't work. Let's say you install the worlds biggest
    illegal overpowered amplifier on the sole access point. It now
    transmits huge amounts of RF and has fantastic transmit range. Just
    one problem. It can't hear any better than the original access point,
    which is already at the limit of receiver sensitivity. So, the
    wireless client radios (laptops and PDA's) are still running an
    insipid +15dBm and have no more range than before. The clients can
    hear the overpowered access point, but the access point can't hear
    them. Range is exactly the same as without the amplifier.

    >Any suggestions to get Wireless to work this way? And please it must be
    >wireless.


    1. Lots of access points with a wired (CAT5) backbone. If the wired
    backbone is a problem, look into AC power line backbone.
    http://www.homepna.org
    The catch is that such a backbone is very slow.

    2. Wireless store and forward repeaters using WDS (wireless
    distribution something). Each box can act as an access point and a
    repeater simultaneously. Big problem is that each hop cuts your
    bandwidth in half.

    3. CATV antenna system. I'm not very proud of this install, but it
    did sorta work. Customer had duplex RG-6/u coax in the walls. Since
    they only needed one coax cable, I borrowed the 2nd coax for wireless.
    I made some cute little 2.4GHz antennas with F connectors, and shoved
    them into the wall plate receptacles. The coax cables went a central
    location when they came together at two access points and a rather
    ugly power splitter. The longest run was about 50ft. The losses were
    horrible but the numbers showed that it should work at close range (<
    15ft). It worked.

    4. HVAC waveguide. Another of my butcher jobs that should not have
    worked, but did. This was a hospital that required 17 signatures and
    divine intervention to make any mechanical or electrical changes. I
    decided that since each room had a nice convenient sheet metal HVAC
    duct, I could use the whole HVAC system as a wireless distribution
    system. I built a rather ugly horn antenna and used it to feed the
    ducting. Useable range limit was about 500ft plus about 10ft in each
    room. The grills forced horizontal polarization. It worked fairly
    well for about 9 months until the safety people decided that I might
    be ionizing the air or something and demanded that I remove the horn.
    However, by that time, a proper access point and CAT5 backbone system
    was approved and budgeted.

    5. Illuminate from outside. Big houses tend to have big picture
    windows. I lit up one large mansion, by placing a single access point
    and directional sector antenna on a nearby garage roof. The other
    side of the house was similarly illuminated from a storage shed in the
    yard. I had to add a few access points inside for hallways,
    stairwells, and inside storage areas. It's so much easier to go
    through outside glass, than through inside walls. Watch out for metal
    venetian blinds that will force horizontal polarization.


    --
    Jeff Liebermann -cruz.ca.us
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
     
    Jeff Liebermann, Dec 17, 2004
    #9
  10. KT

    Randy Guest

    What do you guys think of this?
    http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/reviews/article.php/3401501


    "Jeff Liebermann" <-cruz.ca.us> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 04:27:26 GMT, "KT" <> wrote:
    >
    >>I have a client who wants to be able to use his existing wireless network
    >>(Linksys 54G) from one end of his house to the other (HUGE HOME with
    >>PLENTY
    >>of barrier). We have tried putting in the Linksys Booster/Repeater, but
    >>it
    >>did NOT do anything at all.

    >
    > Power amps don't work. Let's say you install the worlds biggest
    > illegal overpowered amplifier on the sole access point. It now
    > transmits huge amounts of RF and has fantastic transmit range. Just
    > one problem. It can't hear any better than the original access point,
    > which is already at the limit of receiver sensitivity. So, the
    > wireless client radios (laptops and PDA's) are still running an
    > insipid +15dBm and have no more range than before. The clients can
    > hear the overpowered access point, but the access point can't hear
    > them. Range is exactly the same as without the amplifier.
    >
    >>Any suggestions to get Wireless to work this way? And please it must be
    >>wireless.

    >
    > 1. Lots of access points with a wired (CAT5) backbone. If the wired
    > backbone is a problem, look into AC power line backbone.
    > http://www.homepna.org
    > The catch is that such a backbone is very slow.
    >
    > 2. Wireless store and forward repeaters using WDS (wireless
    > distribution something). Each box can act as an access point and a
    > repeater simultaneously. Big problem is that each hop cuts your
    > bandwidth in half.
    >
    > 3. CATV antenna system. I'm not very proud of this install, but it
    > did sorta work. Customer had duplex RG-6/u coax in the walls. Since
    > they only needed one coax cable, I borrowed the 2nd coax for wireless.
    > I made some cute little 2.4GHz antennas with F connectors, and shoved
    > them into the wall plate receptacles. The coax cables went a central
    > location when they came together at two access points and a rather
    > ugly power splitter. The longest run was about 50ft. The losses were
    > horrible but the numbers showed that it should work at close range (<
    > 15ft). It worked.
    >
    > 4. HVAC waveguide. Another of my butcher jobs that should not have
    > worked, but did. This was a hospital that required 17 signatures and
    > divine intervention to make any mechanical or electrical changes. I
    > decided that since each room had a nice convenient sheet metal HVAC
    > duct, I could use the whole HVAC system as a wireless distribution
    > system. I built a rather ugly horn antenna and used it to feed the
    > ducting. Useable range limit was about 500ft plus about 10ft in each
    > room. The grills forced horizontal polarization. It worked fairly
    > well for about 9 months until the safety people decided that I might
    > be ionizing the air or something and demanded that I remove the horn.
    > However, by that time, a proper access point and CAT5 backbone system
    > was approved and budgeted.
    >
    > 5. Illuminate from outside. Big houses tend to have big picture
    > windows. I lit up one large mansion, by placing a single access point
    > and directional sector antenna on a nearby garage roof. The other
    > side of the house was similarly illuminated from a storage shed in the
    > yard. I had to add a few access points inside for hallways,
    > stairwells, and inside storage areas. It's so much easier to go
    > through outside glass, than through inside walls. Watch out for metal
    > venetian blinds that will force horizontal polarization.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Jeff Liebermann -cruz.ca.us
    > 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    > Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
     
    Randy, Dec 17, 2004
    #10
  11. On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:07:36 GMT, "Randy" <> wrote:

    >What do you guys think of this?
    >http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/reviews/article.php/3401501


    I think you mean:
    http://www.cantenna.com
    (The pigtail for $8 looks nice and cheap).

    If you build or buy a properly designed coffee can antenna, you'll get
    about 8dBi of gain:
    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com/pics/antennas/coffee2400/index.html
    with about a -3dB beamwidth of about 90 degrees. This makes for a
    great parabolic dish feed but not what I would consider a great
    antenna.

    If you're going to burn $50 for 8dBi ($6.25 per decibel), then you can
    do better with a panel antenna at $45 for 13dBi ($3.46/dB). See:
    http://www.fab-corp.com/J1.htm
    Maybe $53 for 19dBi ($2.79/dB) is even a better deal.

    If you like building antennas, a proper biquad antenna:
    http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad/
    will get you 11dBi for perhaps $10 in parts.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann -cruz.ca.us
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
     
    Jeff Liebermann, Dec 17, 2004
    #11
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