10 Reasons why HD-DVD and Blu-Ray Have Already Failed

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Black Locust, Jun 27, 2006.

  1. Black Locust

    Black Locust Guest

    10 Reasons Why High Definition DVD Formats Have Already Failed
    Wednesday, June 21 2006

    I¹m not typically a doom and gloom kind of guy ­ really, I¹m rather
    optimistic. But this pending format release/war is simply the most
    ridiculous thing I¹ve seen in a long time. The hype machine is entirely
    enthusiast-created and since that day I realized Steve Jobs could sell a
    fart provided he sued a public Mac forum for talking about it before its
    release, I began to understand the power of public mania.

    There are a number of reasons why the new high definition DVD formats
    have already failed and I¹ll gladly go over some of them in this
    article. I am not a soothsayer, but I do study the industry ­ and at
    times, sit back and take assessment of what¹s happening from both a
    consumer and manufacturer perspective.

    Without any further ado, here are the reasons HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc
    will never turn into the dominant formats for digital media viewing:

    1. Nobody likes false starts
    With the debut of HD DVD at an underwhelming 720p/1080i, coupled with a
    buggy interface and a transport that makes boiling water seem like a
    speedy event, the entrance of high definition DVD into the mainstream
    came out of the starting gate lame and hobbled. For Toshiba to release a
    player that didn¹t support true HD at 1080p (even though the software
    does), and with no lossless audio format to accompany the video track,
    the high definition wave was more of a ripple. Add to this the delay of
    HDMI 1.3, lack of market penetration and supply, and a dearth amount of
    software titles and you have a very unimpressive product launch.

    2. Format Wars Don¹t Sell Players
    The only reason Sony¹s Playstation, Microsoft¹s Xbox and the Nintendo
    GameCube can sell so well simultaneously is because of the prevalence of
    excellent software titles. People want to buy the hardware just so they
    can play the software. This is not a format war ­ it is choice, just
    like Chevy and Ford (and just like the gaming systems, some people have
    one of each). The high definition DVD formats, however are really just
    the same source material packaged in two different wrappers- not to
    provide choice, mind you, but because the two camps simply are too
    greedy to combine forces, and not innovative enough to drive two truly
    separate products successfully. Take careful note ­ a format war is NOT
    competition, it is a hindrance and the bane of high definition DVDs.

    3. HD DVD and Blu-ray are NOT Quantum Leaps in Technology
    Consumers came over in droves when CDs were released back in 1982. The
    new format offered not only a new digital media, but also a way to
    instantly access tracks across an entire ³album². Convenience, not
    technology, drove this format to almost instant consumer adoption. Fast
    forward a bit to 1997 when the first DVD player was released. Again,
    convenience, not technology, drove people to the market en masse. Unlike
    VHS tapes, the new DVD format was smaller, easily navigated and would
    not wear down over time like existing tape-based formats. Heck, the
    concept of a shiny plastic disc was new ­ and quite frankly, it was the
    coolest thing to hit the technological shelf since solid state
    technology. In comparison, the high definition DVD formats, save the
    color of the business side of the disc, look exactly the sameŠ and
    consumer confusion will surely follow.

    What do the new high definition DVD formats offer consumers over DVD?
    Technology and more storage. Is this enough? Not on your life.
    Consumers, most of whom rarely know how to properly configure their
    players or home theater systems, are perfectly content with their
    current DVD players (and indeed some have just jumped on board to DVD in
    the last several years). While the potential for more extras and
    alternate endings exists due to increased storage on the new media,
    there is no compelling reason for consumers to migrate over to the new
    high definition DVD formats in large numbers.

    4. Studios are Conservative, Greedy and Unmotivated
    Studios are so conservative in their practices as to consistently miss
    out on market advances ­ even those that can make them money (ie. Why is
    a computer company running the world¹s most successful online music
    store?) The studios are not jumping on board the high definition DVD
    bandwagon just yet ­ and you can see the lack of titles to prove it. If
    the movie studios decided that HD DVD or Blu-ray (or both) was to be the
    next dominant format, it need only to flood the market with software
    titles and present a plan to roll back on DVD production over the next
    10 years. Even though this would grant them the secure format that they
    seem to want (HD DVDs and Blu-ray discs promise to be much harder to rip
    or duplicate) there is no indication in the industry that this is taking
    place or even in the works. The studios are making money hand over fist
    with DVD they cannot seem to bring themselves to seriously initiate a
    new, unproven technology ­ even if it saves them from some other
    copyright headaches.

    Add to this the fact that new titles are coming out at $30 a pop (and
    this down from an initial $35/title) and you have a really hard sell for
    consumers who are used to $15 titles at Wal-mart and the large
    electronics chains.

    5. Playstation3 Cannot Save the World
    We have consistently heard it said that the Playstation3 will ³jump
    start² the market by flooding it with millions of gaming systems capable
    of handling Blu-ray Disc software. The problem with this theory is that
    the PS3 is not being marketed as a home theater component and, if
    current installations prove the rule, most will not be situated in the
    average consumer¹s living room. The result is that the PS3 will
    primarily be a *gasp* gaming system. Maybe I have a more traditional
    group of parents in my association of friends, but, taking into account
    #4 above, I do not think that Blu-ray will make any major leaps forward
    in market penetration as a home video format ­ at least not anytime
    soon.

    History is bearing this out, as the HTPC market, though driven hard by
    such manufacturers as Microsoft, Dell and HP, has struggled to find a
    place in the living room. Nearly every gaming system of the past: PS2,
    Xbox, and even the legendary 3DO system have been touted as ³set-top
    boxes² but in reality find themselves situated in more ³gaming-centric²
    environments playingŠ you guessed it, games.

    6. Those Who Ignore HistoryŠ
    For years we¹ve heard about the evils of MP3 and illegal downloading.
    All the while the RIAA and music industry had two formats that could
    have prevented any illegal copying ­ at least for all but the most
    dedicated crackers: DVD-Audio and SACD. These formats proved to be
    higher quality than CD, presented much enhanced copy protection schemes
    and were easily used as alternative formats to CD. Yet both formats
    failed miserably to achieve any significant market penetration. Why?
    Without an artificial ³shove² from the record industry ­ which never
    materialized ­ technology alone is never enough to push a new format
    into the hands of consumers. In terms of convenience and ease of use,
    DVD-Audio and SACD offered nothing to consumers. In fact, they made
    listening to music more complex, since most hardware was unable to
    correctly decode and provide adequate bass management for the new
    formats.

    Could these formats have succeeded? Absolutely. If the recording
    industry had presented a plan to phase out CDs and the ³format war² had
    been avoided (simply by the industry picking one format over the other)
    we would all be using DVD-Audio players and illegal downloadable music
    would be mostly confined to analogue rips or older music. Is this a
    stretch? Perhaps, but only because history shows us that corporate greed
    causes most companies to miss the long term economical gains over a
    short term loss of licensing revenues.

    7. People Want Technology that¹s 15 Minutes Ahead of Its Time
    For many people, getting into HDTV is all about the widescreen and being
    able to see their DVDs with more clarity than ever before. When Billy
    Bob comes home with his new high definition 720p display, the difference
    between that and his older SD TV is amazing ­ at least when he¹s
    watching DVDs. You see, that¹s the problem ­ and it¹s two-fold. While
    most consumers are still getting into the HDTV craze, they¹re already
    impressed. And the difference between SD TV and HDTV is more amazing
    than the difference between 480p DVDs and 1080i downrezzed high
    definition discs.

    The other side of the coin is the lack of HD content available on TV ­
    and this is a biggie. While Billy Bob is impressed by his DVD player, he
    is dumbfounded by his cable TV ­ which actually looks worse than it did
    on his old set (mostly because it¹s bigger). You see, nobody told Billy
    Bob that he¹d have to get an antenna or subscribe to HD service from his
    cable/satellite provider. He was also not told that most of his favorite
    shows (Billy likes sitcoms and the Sci-Fi Channel) aren¹t yet available
    in HD, regardless of technology or service provider. As a result, many
    Americans are underwhelmed or feel like they got burned by HDTV. The
    last thing they¹re going to do is rush out and buy the next greatest
    thing.

    8. Enthusiasts Are Getting Tired (and Smarter)
    While some home theater audio- and videophiles have the money and
    inclination to rush out and buy the latest and greatest toys as soon as
    they are available, many more are becoming more cautious. Burned by
    8-track, laserdisc, SACD, and DVD-Audio (and possibly soon non-HDCP
    HDTV) ­ these war-weary consumers are going to think long and hard
    before jumping onto any new technological bandwagons. This leaves a
    shrunken market of even the bleeding-edge consumers, and that means even
    less sales to early-adopters.

    9. A Skeptical News Media Doesn¹t Help
    I¹ll admit it, we¹re part of the ³problem² (though I¹d like to think
    we¹re saving consumers from making the next big mistake). An
    increasingly skeptical news media isn¹t buying into the hype of HD DVD
    and Blu-ray, especially not after wasting millions of editorial words on
    DVD-Audio and SACD, only to watch the software and technology dwindle
    into obscurity. Even after almost 6 years, most consumers continue to
    proffer puzzled looks when these audio formats are mentioned. The new
    DVD formats are getting plenty of press, mind you, but with the Toshiba
    flop and lack of software, the fact that the Emperor has no clothes (at
    least not yet) is hard to avoid.

    10. Broadband and IPTV to Compete?
    With Verizon, AOL, Time Warner and others jumping to provide HD
    on-demand services for the consumer it is a very likely event that high
    definition DVD will be something that isn¹t relevant in a
    service-directed marketplace. Add to this Apple Computer¹s recent push
    for video downloads and we may find that consumers are far more
    interested in quantity, portability, and ease of use over high quality
    source material. Even with respect to high definition formats,
    downloadable files burned to consumer-supplied media may make data high
    definition DVDs more significant than the retail formats. This consumer
    model is being readied for testing in South Carolina¹s head-end for Time
    Warner Cable this year.

    So, while I certainly hope for the best, that¹s my story and I¹m
    stickin¹ to it. High definition is headed for a niche market at best,
    not an industry takeover. 

    By Clint DeBoer

    http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/10reasonsHDDVDsfailed.php
    --
    "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.
    They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people,
    and neither do we." - George Dumbya Bush
    Black Locust, Jun 27, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Black Locust

    J Rusnak Guest

    Give it time! Some of the points you raised belowalso applied to the launch
    of DVD. From false starts to a skeptical mainstean press to prices (Players
    were $500! By year's end, you'll be able to get a Toshiba HD player for
    LESS than that) to lack of consumer awareness to conservative studios.
    (Actually, there might already be more HD discs on the market than there
    were DVDs at launch.)

    The real difference is that there was no DVD format battle. But for the
    average consumer, there's no HD battle that they know of either. Whichever
    format becomes "branded" in the public mind will be the winner, pricing
    aside. If everyone has heard of Blu-Ray but no one has heard of HD-DVD,
    guess which one they'll opt for?
    (This also applies to DVD-A and SACD...to this day, most people haven't
    heard of either of those formats.)

    It will come down to promotion and marketing. And Sony has the marketing
    and hardware support to probably pull ahead in that arena.



    "Black Locust" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > 10 Reasons Why High Definition DVD Formats Have Already Failed
    > Wednesday, June 21 2006
    >
    > I¹m not typically a doom and gloom kind of guy ­ really, I¹m rather
    > optimistic. But this pending format release/war is simply the most
    > ridiculous thing I¹ve seen in a long time. The hype machine is entirely
    > enthusiast-created and since that day I realized Steve Jobs could sell a
    > fart provided he sued a public Mac forum for talking about it before its
    > release, I began to understand the power of public mania.
    >
    > There are a number of reasons why the new high definition DVD formats
    > have already failed and I¹ll gladly go over some of them in this
    > article. I am not a soothsayer, but I do study the industry ­ and at
    > times, sit back and take assessment of what¹s happening from both a
    > consumer and manufacturer perspective.
    >
    > Without any further ado, here are the reasons HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc
    > will never turn into the dominant formats for digital media viewing:
    >
    > 1. Nobody likes false starts
    > With the debut of HD DVD at an underwhelming 720p/1080i, coupled with a
    > buggy interface and a transport that makes boiling water seem like a
    > speedy event, the entrance of high definition DVD into the mainstream
    > came out of the starting gate lame and hobbled. For Toshiba to release a
    > player that didn¹t support true HD at 1080p (even though the software
    > does), and with no lossless audio format to accompany the video track,
    > the high definition wave was more of a ripple. Add to this the delay of
    > HDMI 1.3, lack of market penetration and supply, and a dearth amount of
    > software titles and you have a very unimpressive product launch.
    >
    > 2. Format Wars Don¹t Sell Players
    > The only reason Sony¹s Playstation, Microsoft¹s Xbox and the Nintendo
    > GameCube can sell so well simultaneously is because of the prevalence of
    > excellent software titles. People want to buy the hardware just so they
    > can play the software. This is not a format war ­ it is choice, just
    > like Chevy and Ford (and just like the gaming systems, some people have
    > one of each). The high definition DVD formats, however are really just
    > the same source material packaged in two different wrappers- not to
    > provide choice, mind you, but because the two camps simply are too
    > greedy to combine forces, and not innovative enough to drive two truly
    > separate products successfully. Take careful note ­ a format war is NOT
    > competition, it is a hindrance and the bane of high definition DVDs.
    >
    > 3. HD DVD and Blu-ray are NOT Quantum Leaps in Technology
    > Consumers came over in droves when CDs were released back in 1982. The
    > new format offered not only a new digital media, but also a way to
    > instantly access tracks across an entire ³album². Convenience, not
    > technology, drove this format to almost instant consumer adoption. Fast
    > forward a bit to 1997 when the first DVD player was released. Again,
    > convenience, not technology, drove people to the market en masse. Unlike
    > VHS tapes, the new DVD format was smaller, easily navigated and would
    > not wear down over time like existing tape-based formats. Heck, the
    > concept of a shiny plastic disc was new ­ and quite frankly, it was the
    > coolest thing to hit the technological shelf since solid state
    > technology. In comparison, the high definition DVD formats, save the
    > color of the business side of the disc, look exactly the sameS and
    > consumer confusion will surely follow.
    >
    > What do the new high definition DVD formats offer consumers over DVD?
    > Technology and more storage. Is this enough? Not on your life.
    > Consumers, most of whom rarely know how to properly configure their
    > players or home theater systems, are perfectly content with their
    > current DVD players (and indeed some have just jumped on board to DVD in
    > the last several years). While the potential for more extras and
    > alternate endings exists due to increased storage on the new media,
    > there is no compelling reason for consumers to migrate over to the new
    > high definition DVD formats in large numbers.
    >
    > 4. Studios are Conservative, Greedy and Unmotivated
    > Studios are so conservative in their practices as to consistently miss
    > out on market advances ­ even those that can make them money (ie. Why is
    > a computer company running the world¹s most successful online music
    > store?) The studios are not jumping on board the high definition DVD
    > bandwagon just yet ­ and you can see the lack of titles to prove it. If
    > the movie studios decided that HD DVD or Blu-ray (or both) was to be the
    > next dominant format, it need only to flood the market with software
    > titles and present a plan to roll back on DVD production over the next
    > 10 years. Even though this would grant them the secure format that they
    > seem to want (HD DVDs and Blu-ray discs promise to be much harder to rip
    > or duplicate) there is no indication in the industry that this is taking
    > place or even in the works. The studios are making money hand over fist
    > with DVD they cannot seem to bring themselves to seriously initiate a
    > new, unproven technology ­ even if it saves them from some other
    > copyright headaches.
    >
    > Add to this the fact that new titles are coming out at $30 a pop (and
    > this down from an initial $35/title) and you have a really hard sell for
    > consumers who are used to $15 titles at Wal-mart and the large
    > electronics chains.
    >
    > 5. Playstation3 Cannot Save the World
    > We have consistently heard it said that the Playstation3 will ³jump
    > start² the market by flooding it with millions of gaming systems capable
    > of handling Blu-ray Disc software. The problem with this theory is that
    > the PS3 is not being marketed as a home theater component and, if
    > current installations prove the rule, most will not be situated in the
    > average consumer¹s living room. The result is that the PS3 will
    > primarily be a *gasp* gaming system. Maybe I have a more traditional
    > group of parents in my association of friends, but, taking into account
    > #4 above, I do not think that Blu-ray will make any major leaps forward
    > in market penetration as a home video format ­ at least not anytime
    > soon.
    >
    > History is bearing this out, as the HTPC market, though driven hard by
    > such manufacturers as Microsoft, Dell and HP, has struggled to find a
    > place in the living room. Nearly every gaming system of the past: PS2,
    > Xbox, and even the legendary 3DO system have been touted as ³set-top
    > boxes² but in reality find themselves situated in more ³gaming-centric²
    > environments playingS you guessed it, games.
    >
    > 6. Those Who Ignore HistoryS
    > For years we¹ve heard about the evils of MP3 and illegal downloading.
    > All the while the RIAA and music industry had two formats that could
    > have prevented any illegal copying ­ at least for all but the most
    > dedicated crackers: DVD-Audio and SACD. These formats proved to be
    > higher quality than CD, presented much enhanced copy protection schemes
    > and were easily used as alternative formats to CD. Yet both formats
    > failed miserably to achieve any significant market penetration. Why?
    > Without an artificial ³shove² from the record industry ­ which never
    > materialized ­ technology alone is never enough to push a new format
    > into the hands of consumers. In terms of convenience and ease of use,
    > DVD-Audio and SACD offered nothing to consumers. In fact, they made
    > listening to music more complex, since most hardware was unable to
    > correctly decode and provide adequate bass management for the new
    > formats.
    >
    > Could these formats have succeeded? Absolutely. If the recording
    > industry had presented a plan to phase out CDs and the ³format war² had
    > been avoided (simply by the industry picking one format over the other)
    > we would all be using DVD-Audio players and illegal downloadable music
    > would be mostly confined to analogue rips or older music. Is this a
    > stretch? Perhaps, but only because history shows us that corporate greed
    > causes most companies to miss the long term economical gains over a
    > short term loss of licensing revenues.
    >
    > 7. People Want Technology that¹s 15 Minutes Ahead of Its Time
    > For many people, getting into HDTV is all about the widescreen and being
    > able to see their DVDs with more clarity than ever before. When Billy
    > Bob comes home with his new high definition 720p display, the difference
    > between that and his older SD TV is amazing ­ at least when he¹s
    > watching DVDs. You see, that¹s the problem ­ and it¹s two-fold. While
    > most consumers are still getting into the HDTV craze, they¹re already
    > impressed. And the difference between SD TV and HDTV is more amazing
    > than the difference between 480p DVDs and 1080i downrezzed high
    > definition discs.
    >
    > The other side of the coin is the lack of HD content available on TV ­
    > and this is a biggie. While Billy Bob is impressed by his DVD player, he
    > is dumbfounded by his cable TV ­ which actually looks worse than it did
    > on his old set (mostly because it¹s bigger). You see, nobody told Billy
    > Bob that he¹d have to get an antenna or subscribe to HD service from his
    > cable/satellite provider. He was also not told that most of his favorite
    > shows (Billy likes sitcoms and the Sci-Fi Channel) aren¹t yet available
    > in HD, regardless of technology or service provider. As a result, many
    > Americans are underwhelmed or feel like they got burned by HDTV. The
    > last thing they¹re going to do is rush out and buy the next greatest
    > thing.
    >
    > 8. Enthusiasts Are Getting Tired (and Smarter)
    > While some home theater audio- and videophiles have the money and
    > inclination to rush out and buy the latest and greatest toys as soon as
    > they are available, many more are becoming more cautious. Burned by
    > 8-track, laserdisc, SACD, and DVD-Audio (and possibly soon non-HDCP
    > HDTV) ­ these war-weary consumers are going to think long and hard
    > before jumping onto any new technological bandwagons. This leaves a
    > shrunken market of even the bleeding-edge consumers, and that means even
    > less sales to early-adopters.
    >
    > 9. A Skeptical News Media Doesn¹t Help
    > I¹ll admit it, we¹re part of the ³problem² (though I¹d like to think
    > we¹re saving consumers from making the next big mistake). An
    > increasingly skeptical news media isn¹t buying into the hype of HD DVD
    > and Blu-ray, especially not after wasting millions of editorial words on
    > DVD-Audio and SACD, only to watch the software and technology dwindle
    > into obscurity. Even after almost 6 years, most consumers continue to
    > proffer puzzled looks when these audio formats are mentioned. The new
    > DVD formats are getting plenty of press, mind you, but with the Toshiba
    > flop and lack of software, the fact that the Emperor has no clothes (at
    > least not yet) is hard to avoid.
    >
    > 10. Broadband and IPTV to Compete?
    > With Verizon, AOL, Time Warner and others jumping to provide HD
    > on-demand services for the consumer it is a very likely event that high
    > definition DVD will be something that isn¹t relevant in a
    > service-directed marketplace. Add to this Apple Computer¹s recent push
    > for video downloads and we may find that consumers are far more
    > interested in quantity, portability, and ease of use over high quality
    > source material. Even with respect to high definition formats,
    > downloadable files burned to consumer-supplied media may make data high
    > definition DVDs more significant than the retail formats. This consumer
    > model is being readied for testing in South Carolina¹s head-end for Time
    > Warner Cable this year.
    >
    > So, while I certainly hope for the best, that¹s my story and I¹m
    > stickin¹ to it. High definition is headed for a niche market at best,
    > not an industry takeover.
    >
    > By Clint DeBoer
    >
    > http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/10reasonsHDDVDsfailed.php
    > --
    > "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.
    > They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our

    people,
    > and neither do we." - George Dumbya Bush
    J Rusnak, Jun 27, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Black Locust

    Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    Roy L. Fuchs, Jun 27, 2006
    #3
  4. "Black Locust" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > 10 Reasons Why High Definition DVD Formats Have Already Failed
    > Wednesday, June 21 2006


    Whether or not either of the 2 existing high definition DVD formats succeed,
    high definition DVDs of *some* type will supercede today's DVDs. That's
    because big screen TVs are dropping in price like rocks, more people are
    buying them, and our current DVDs don't have enough resolution for them.
    Just go to Circuit City or some other electronics store, and compare an HD
    broadcast to a DVD playing on a 52" screen. You can definitely tell the
    difference. The HD broadcast looks like your watching real life through a
    window. It's awesome. I want an HD TV. They've gotta come down to about
    $700, though, before I'd seriously think about buying one.
    Tony Whitaker, Jun 28, 2006
    #4
  5. Black Locust

    Guest

    Black Locust wrote:
    > 10 Reasons Why High Definition DVD Formats Have Already Failed
    > Wednesday, June 21 2006
    >
    > So, while I certainly hope for the best, that¹s my story and I¹m
    > stickin¹ to it. High definition is headed for a niche market at best,
    > not an industry takeover.


    Well stated, and I agree ... it's a RACKET ... and it's all
    manufactured by China.

    Funny no one ever denotes that fact in their critical reviews of the
    consumer garbage it produces ... for even the Pathetic Rim knows that
    trash begets trash.

    Oh, and let's not forget that this country is being put out of business.
    , Jun 28, 2006
    #5
  6. Black Locust

    Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 00:55:52 GMT, "Tony Whitaker"
    <tony1964@_____mindspring.com> Gave us:

    >They've gotta come down to about
    >$700, though, before I'd seriously think about buying one.


    Good luck on anything bigger than 32", idiot.

    Did you also have life handed to you on a silver platter?

    Do you want Chinese workers to make less even than oriental rug
    weavers make? Do a google search for a place where guys like you can
    buy a clue.
    Roy L. Fuchs, Jun 28, 2006
    #6
  7. Black Locust

    Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    On 27 Jun 2006 19:04:31 -0700, Gave us:

    >
    >Black Locust wrote:
    >> 10 Reasons Why High Definition DVD Formats Have Already Failed
    >> Wednesday, June 21 2006
    >>
    >> So, while I certainly hope for the best, that?s my story and I?m
    >> stickin? to it. High definition is headed for a niche market at best,
    >> not an industry takeover.

    >
    >Well stated, and I agree ... it's a RACKET ... and it's all
    >manufactured by China.
    >
    >Funny no one ever denotes that fact in their critical reviews of the
    >consumer garbage it produces ... for even the Pathetic Rim knows that
    >trash begets trash.
    >
    >Oh, and let's not forget that this country is being put out of business.


    My god! The idiots are coming out of the woodwork!

    China MANUFACTURES products. They get designed elsewhere, and are
    owned by companies centered elsewhere, so the "racket" you jack off at
    the mouth about does NOT have ANYTHING to do with China.
    Roy L. Fuchs, Jun 28, 2006
    #7
  8. The Beta vs VHS battle of the 21st century?

    ----
    http://www.moviesitearchive.com/


    Black Locust wrote:
    > 10 Reasons Why High Definition DVD Formats Have Already Failed
    > Wednesday, June 21 2006
    >
    > I¹m not typically a doom and gloom kind of guy ­ really, I¹m rather
    > optimistic. But this pending format release/war is simply the most
    > ridiculous thing I¹ve seen in a long time. The hype machine is entirely
    > enthusiast-created and since that day I realized Steve Jobs could sell a
    > fart provided he sued a public Mac forum for talking about it before its
    > release, I began to understand the power of public mania.
    >
    > There are a number of reasons why the new high definition DVD formats
    > have already failed and I¹ll gladly go over some of them in this
    > article. I am not a soothsayer, but I do study the industry ­ and at
    > times, sit back and take assessment of what¹s happening from both a
    > consumer and manufacturer perspective.
    >
    > Without any further ado, here are the reasons HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc
    > will never turn into the dominant formats for digital media viewing:
    >
    > 1. Nobody likes false starts
    > With the debut of HD DVD at an underwhelming 720p/1080i, coupled with a
    > buggy interface and a transport that makes boiling water seem like a
    > speedy event, the entrance of high definition DVD into the mainstream
    > came out of the starting gate lame and hobbled. For Toshiba to release a
    > player that didn¹t support true HD at 1080p (even though the software
    > does), and with no lossless audio format to accompany the video track,
    > the high definition wave was more of a ripple. Add to this the delay of
    > HDMI 1.3, lack of market penetration and supply, and a dearth amount of
    > software titles and you have a very unimpressive product launch.
    >
    > 2. Format Wars Don¹t Sell Players
    > The only reason Sony¹s Playstation, Microsoft¹s Xbox and the Nintendo
    > GameCube can sell so well simultaneously is because of the prevalence of
    > excellent software titles. People want to buy the hardware just so they
    > can play the software. This is not a format war ­ it is choice, just
    > like Chevy and Ford (and just like the gaming systems, some people have
    > one of each). The high definition DVD formats, however are really just
    > the same source material packaged in two different wrappers- not to
    > provide choice, mind you, but because the two camps simply are too
    > greedy to combine forces, and not innovative enough to drive two truly
    > separate products successfully. Take careful note ­ a format war is NOT
    > competition, it is a hindrance and the bane of high definition DVDs.
    >
    > 3. HD DVD and Blu-ray are NOT Quantum Leaps in Technology
    > Consumers came over in droves when CDs were released back in 1982. The
    > new format offered not only a new digital media, but also a way to
    > instantly access tracks across an entire ³album². Convenience, not
    > technology, drove this format to almost instant consumer adoption. Fast
    > forward a bit to 1997 when the first DVD player was released. Again,
    > convenience, not technology, drove people to the market en masse. Unlike
    > VHS tapes, the new DVD format was smaller, easily navigated and would
    > not wear down over time like existing tape-based formats. Heck, the
    > concept of a shiny plastic disc was new ­ and quite frankly, it was the
    > coolest thing to hit the technological shelf since solid state
    > technology. In comparison, the high definition DVD formats, save the
    > color of the business side of the disc, look exactly the sameŠ and
    > consumer confusion will surely follow.
    >
    > What do the new high definition DVD formats offer consumers over DVD?
    > Technology and more storage. Is this enough? Not on your life.
    > Consumers, most of whom rarely know how to properly configure their
    > players or home theater systems, are perfectly content with their
    > current DVD players (and indeed some have just jumped on board to DVD in
    > the last several years). While the potential for more extras and
    > alternate endings exists due to increased storage on the new media,
    > there is no compelling reason for consumers to migrate over to the new
    > high definition DVD formats in large numbers.
    >
    > 4. Studios are Conservative, Greedy and Unmotivated
    > Studios are so conservative in their practices as to consistently miss
    > out on market advances ­ even those that can make them money (ie. Why is
    > a computer company running the world¹s most successful online music
    > store?) The studios are not jumping on board the high definition DVD
    > bandwagon just yet ­ and you can see the lack of titles to prove it. If
    > the movie studios decided that HD DVD or Blu-ray (or both) was to be the
    > next dominant format, it need only to flood the market with software
    > titles and present a plan to roll back on DVD production over the next
    > 10 years. Even though this would grant them the secure format that they
    > seem to want (HD DVDs and Blu-ray discs promise to be much harder to rip
    > or duplicate) there is no indication in the industry that this is taking
    > place or even in the works. The studios are making money hand over fist
    > with DVD they cannot seem to bring themselves to seriously initiate a
    > new, unproven technology ­ even if it saves them from some other
    > copyright headaches.
    >
    > Add to this the fact that new titles are coming out at $30 a pop (and
    > this down from an initial $35/title) and you have a really hard sell for
    > consumers who are used to $15 titles at Wal-mart and the large
    > electronics chains.
    >
    > 5. Playstation3 Cannot Save the World
    > We have consistently heard it said that the Playstation3 will ³jump
    > start² the market by flooding it with millions of gaming systems capable
    > of handling Blu-ray Disc software. The problem with this theory is that
    > the PS3 is not being marketed as a home theater component and, if
    > current installations prove the rule, most will not be situated in the
    > average consumer¹s living room. The result is that the PS3 will
    > primarily be a *gasp* gaming system. Maybe I have a more traditional
    > group of parents in my association of friends, but, taking into account
    > #4 above, I do not think that Blu-ray will make any major leaps forward
    > in market penetration as a home video format ­ at least not anytime
    > soon.
    >
    > History is bearing this out, as the HTPC market, though driven hard by
    > such manufacturers as Microsoft, Dell and HP, has struggled to find a
    > place in the living room. Nearly every gaming system of the past: PS2,
    > Xbox, and even the legendary 3DO system have been touted as ³set-top
    > boxes² but in reality find themselves situated in more ³gaming-centric²
    > environments playingŠ you guessed it, games.
    >
    > 6. Those Who Ignore HistoryŠ
    > For years we¹ve heard about the evils of MP3 and illegal downloading.
    > All the while the RIAA and music industry had two formats that could
    > have prevented any illegal copying ­ at least for all but the most
    > dedicated crackers: DVD-Audio and SACD. These formats proved to be
    > higher quality than CD, presented much enhanced copy protection schemes
    > and were easily used as alternative formats to CD. Yet both formats
    > failed miserably to achieve any significant market penetration. Why?
    > Without an artificial ³shove² from the record industry ­ which never
    > materialized ­ technology alone is never enough to push a new format
    > into the hands of consumers. In terms of convenience and ease of use,
    > DVD-Audio and SACD offered nothing to consumers. In fact, they made
    > listening to music more complex, since most hardware was unable to
    > correctly decode and provide adequate bass management for the new
    > formats.
    >
    > Could these formats have succeeded? Absolutely. If the recording
    > industry had presented a plan to phase out CDs and the ³format war² had
    > been avoided (simply by the industry picking one format over the other)
    > we would all be using DVD-Audio players and illegal downloadable music
    > would be mostly confined to analogue rips or older music. Is this a
    > stretch? Perhaps, but only because history shows us that corporate greed
    > causes most companies to miss the long term economical gains over a
    > short term loss of licensing revenues.
    >
    > 7. People Want Technology that¹s 15 Minutes Ahead of Its Time
    > For many people, getting into HDTV is all about the widescreen and being
    > able to see their DVDs with more clarity than ever before. When Billy
    > Bob comes home with his new high definition 720p display, the difference
    > between that and his older SD TV is amazing ­ at least when he¹s
    > watching DVDs. You see, that¹s the problem ­ and it¹s two-fold. While
    > most consumers are still getting into the HDTV craze, they¹re already
    > impressed. And the difference between SD TV and HDTV is more amazing
    > than the difference between 480p DVDs and 1080i downrezzed high
    > definition discs.
    >
    > The other side of the coin is the lack of HD content available on TV ­
    > and this is a biggie. While Billy Bob is impressed by his DVD player, he
    > is dumbfounded by his cable TV ­ which actually looks worse than it did
    > on his old set (mostly because it¹s bigger). You see, nobody told Billy
    > Bob that he¹d have to get an antenna or subscribe to HD service from his
    > cable/satellite provider. He was also not told that most of his favorite
    > shows (Billy likes sitcoms and the Sci-Fi Channel) aren¹t yet available
    > in HD, regardless of technology or service provider. As a result, many
    > Americans are underwhelmed or feel like they got burned by HDTV. The
    > last thing they¹re going to do is rush out and buy the next greatest
    > thing.
    >
    > 8. Enthusiasts Are Getting Tired (and Smarter)
    > While some home theater audio- and videophiles have the money and
    > inclination to rush out and buy the latest and greatest toys as soon as
    > they are available, many more are becoming more cautious. Burned by
    > 8-track, laserdisc, SACD, and DVD-Audio (and possibly soon non-HDCP
    > HDTV) ­ these war-weary consumers are going to think long and hard
    > before jumping onto any new technological bandwagons. This leaves a
    > shrunken market of even the bleeding-edge consumers, and that means even
    > less sales to early-adopters.
    >
    > 9. A Skeptical News Media Doesn¹t Help
    > I¹ll admit it, we¹re part of the ³problem² (though I¹d like to think
    > we¹re saving consumers from making the next big mistake). An
    > increasingly skeptical news media isn¹t buying into the hype of HD DVD
    > and Blu-ray, especially not after wasting millions of editorial words on
    > DVD-Audio and SACD, only to watch the software and technology dwindle
    > into obscurity. Even after almost 6 years, most consumers continue to
    > proffer puzzled looks when these audio formats are mentioned. The new
    > DVD formats are getting plenty of press, mind you, but with the Toshiba
    > flop and lack of software, the fact that the Emperor has no clothes (at
    > least not yet) is hard to avoid.
    >
    > 10. Broadband and IPTV to Compete?
    > With Verizon, AOL, Time Warner and others jumping to provide HD
    > on-demand services for the consumer it is a very likely event that high
    > definition DVD will be something that isn¹t relevant in a
    > service-directed marketplace. Add to this Apple Computer¹s recent push
    > for video downloads and we may find that consumers are far more
    > interested in quantity, portability, and ease of use over high quality
    > source material. Even with respect to high definition formats,
    > downloadable files burned to consumer-supplied media may make data high
    > definition DVDs more significant than the retail formats. This consumer
    > model is being readied for testing in South Carolina¹s head-end for Time
    > Warner Cable this year.
    >
    > So, while I certainly hope for the best, that¹s my story and I¹m
    > stickin¹ to it. High definition is headed for a niche market at best,
    > not an industry takeover.
    >
    > By Clint DeBoer
    >
    > http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/10reasonsHDDVDsfailed.php
    > --
    > "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.
    > They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people,
    > and neither do we." - George Dumbya Bush
    jessica_smith_nyc, Jun 28, 2006
    #8
  9. Black Locust

    123 Guest

    On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:26:09 -0400, "J Rusnak" <>
    wrote:

    >Give it time! Some of the points you raised belowalso applied to the launch
    >of DVD. From false starts to a skeptical mainstean press to prices (Players
    >were $500! By year's end, you'll be able to get a Toshiba HD player for
    >LESS than that) to lack of consumer awareness to conservative studios.
    >(Actually, there might already be more HD discs on the market than there
    >were DVDs at launch.)
    >
    >The real difference is that there was no DVD format battle. But for the
    >average consumer, there's no HD battle that they know of either. Whichever
    >format becomes "branded" in the public mind will be the winner, pricing
    >aside. If everyone has heard of Blu-Ray but no one has heard of HD-DVD,
    >guess which one they'll opt for?
    >(This also applies to DVD-A and SACD...to this day, most people haven't
    >heard of either of those formats.)
    >
    >It will come down to promotion and marketing. And Sony has the marketing
    >and hardware support to probably pull ahead in that arena.


    high def video restaints. Both the Xbox 360 add on drive and the new
    ps3 will NOT have HDMI, thus resolution drops down by a quarter, all
    to stop piracy.
    http://editorials.teamxbox.com/xbox/1608/Editorial-The-Secret-HDMI-Pact/p1/

    DVD never had such limitations on it which is why its so popular.

    Editorial: The Secret HDMI Pact
    By: César A. Berardini - "Cesar"
    June 7th, 2006
    The first thing I did when I got my hands on the HD-DVD drive mock-up
    Microsoft had on display at E3 06, was to check its back side. When I
    found that there was only a power socket and three USB ports, I
    approached a Microsoft representative to ask where the HDMI port was,
    or if they plan to release an HDMI Xbox 360 AV cable when the external
    HD-DVD drive launches. His response was:

    “If Sony is not using HDMI to play Blu-ray Disc movies, neither are
    we.”

    To which I immediately replied, “But the AACS spec demands the use of
    HDMI or DVI in order to playback HD content at its full resolution”.
    Before I finished my words, he repeated,


    “If Sony is not…”

    I was a little surprised that a Microsoft representative would provide
    such an unsubstantial explanation for the lack of HDMI on the Xbox
    360. Since when does Microsoft do things based on Sony’s actions?

    The ITC Pact

    Now, guess who are the founding members of the AACS LA committee? IBM,
    Intel, Microsoft, Matsushita (Panasonic), Sony, Toshiba, The Walt
    Disney Company, and Warner Bros. Studios. As you can see, there you
    have the inventors of HD-DVD (Toshiba) and Blu-ray Disc (Sony), and
    the manufacturers of the two next-generation consoles that will play
    high-definition movies - the Microsoft Xbox 360 and the Sony
    PlayStation 3.

    As you can also see, of its eight founders, six of them are consumer
    electronics manufacturers, with the other two being the only movie
    studios on the committee. When you add to that the fact that one of
    those manufacturers (Sony) also owns several movie studios including
    Columbia, Tri-Star and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, you realize who has the
    ball in their court.

    These CE manufacturers, whose business is to sell high-definition
    movie players, and in the case of Sony and Toshiba, also impose their
    next-generation DVD formats, know that many consumers around the world
    purchased HD televisions that lack HDMI interfaces. This is a fact
    that simply can’t be ignored, especially when they also manufacture
    HDTV displays! Telling consumers that their HDTV sets will not be able
    to play HD movies at full resolution because they lack a HDMI input,
    would be a total disaster.

    So, if the Image Constrain Token implementation is optional, why not
    keep passing the buck a few more years until high-definition
    televisions become affordable and include a HDMI connector as a
    standard input? That would allow existing owners of HDTVs that lack
    HDMI inputs to play HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc movies using component
    video without having to watch a downgraded image.

    Avoiding the use of the Image Constraint Token is a win-win situation
    for the users, all the CE manufacturers, and even if a few movie
    studios aren’t happy with the possibility of their movies being copied
    over analog connections, most of them have expressed their
    disagreement towards using the ICT.


    The HDMI Pact

    This pact between Hollywood and consumer electronic manufacturers
    might never be officially announced and all the parties involved will
    probably offer the classic “no comment” line. It’s even possible that
    after establishing that secret pact at the AACS LA, Sony and Microsoft
    had their own HDMI-related agreements.

    Since the pact between Hollywood studios and CE manufacturers is
    rumored to postpone the use of the Image Constraint Token until 2010
    (possibly until 2012), neither the Xbox 360 nor the PlayStation 3 will
    need a HDMI connector since consoles’ lifecycles are usually five
    years.

    By 2010, definitely by 2012, the successor to the Xbox 360 and
    PlayStation 3 will have already arrived and Microsoft and Sony will
    have included a HDMI connector in those next-next-generation systems,
    but in the meantime, there is no need to use HDMI in order to play
    high-definition movies at their maximum resolution. That’s why Sony
    can offer a model without HDMI and clarify that it will still be able
    to playback Blu-ray Disc movies without any image degradation.
    Microsoft has followed suit.

    If you were expecting a first-party HDMI cable for the Xbox 360, well
    my friend, I’m sorry to inform you that it might never happen.

    Be happy for the fact that you won’t need a new HDTV to watch HD-DVD
    on your Xbox 360 and Blu-ray Disc movies on your PlayStation 3. As for
    the fact that the Xbox 360 won’t have an HDMI cable, well… welcome to
    the HD Era.
    123, Jun 28, 2006
    #9
  10. Black Locust

    123 Guest

    The Secret HDMI Pact with Microsoft and Sony

    http://editorials.teamxbox.com/xbox/1608/Editorial-The-Secret-HDMI-Pact/p1/

    DVD never had such limitations on it which is why its so popular.

    Here is what is on the above url.

    Editorial: The Secret HDMI Pact
    By: César A. Berardini - "Cesar"
    June 7th, 2006
    The first thing I did when I got my hands on the HD-DVD drive mock-up
    Microsoft had on display at E3 06, was to check its back side. When I
    found that there was only a power socket and three USB ports, I
    approached a Microsoft representative to ask where the HDMI port was,
    or if they plan to release an HDMI Xbox 360 AV cable when the external
    HD-DVD drive launches. His response was:

    “If Sony is not using HDMI to play Blu-ray Disc movies, neither are
    we.”

    To which I immediately replied, “But the AACS spec demands the use of
    HDMI or DVI in order to playback HD content at its full resolution”.
    Before I finished my words, he repeated,


    “If Sony is not…”

    I was a little surprised that a Microsoft representative would provide
    such an unsubstantial explanation for the lack of HDMI on the Xbox
    360. Since when does Microsoft do things based on Sony’s actions?

    The ITC Pact

    Now, guess who are the founding members of the AACS LA committee? IBM,
    Intel, Microsoft, Matsushita (Panasonic), Sony, Toshiba, The Walt
    Disney Company, and Warner Bros. Studios. As you can see, there you
    have the inventors of HD-DVD (Toshiba) and Blu-ray Disc (Sony), and
    the manufacturers of the two next-generation consoles that will play
    high-definition movies - the Microsoft Xbox 360 and the Sony
    PlayStation 3.

    As you can also see, of its eight founders, six of them are consumer
    electronics manufacturers, with the other two being the only movie
    studios on the committee. When you add to that the fact that one of
    those manufacturers (Sony) also owns several movie studios including
    Columbia, Tri-Star and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, you realize who has the
    ball in their court.

    These CE manufacturers, whose business is to sell high-definition
    movie players, and in the case of Sony and Toshiba, also impose their
    next-generation DVD formats, know that many consumers around the world
    purchased HD televisions that lack HDMI interfaces. This is a fact
    that simply can’t be ignored, especially when they also manufacture
    HDTV displays! Telling consumers that their HDTV sets will not be able
    to play HD movies at full resolution because they lack a HDMI input,
    would be a total disaster.

    So, if the Image Constrain Token implementation is optional, why not
    keep passing the buck a few more years until high-definition
    televisions become affordable and include a HDMI connector as a
    standard input? That would allow existing owners of HDTVs that lack
    HDMI inputs to play HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc movies using component
    video without having to watch a downgraded image.

    Avoiding the use of the Image Constraint Token is a win-win situation
    for the users, all the CE manufacturers, and even if a few movie
    studios aren’t happy with the possibility of their movies being copied
    over analog connections, most of them have expressed their
    disagreement towards using the ICT.


    The HDMI Pact

    This pact between Hollywood and consumer electronic manufacturers
    might never be officially announced and all the parties involved will
    probably offer the classic “no comment” line. It’s even possible that
    after establishing that secret pact at the AACS LA, Sony and Microsoft
    had their own HDMI-related agreements.

    Since the pact between Hollywood studios and CE manufacturers is
    rumored to postpone the use of the Image Constraint Token until 2010
    (possibly until 2012), neither the Xbox 360 nor the PlayStation 3 will
    need a HDMI connector since consoles’ lifecycles are usually five
    years.

    By 2010, definitely by 2012, the successor to the Xbox 360 and
    PlayStation 3 will have already arrived and Microsoft and Sony will
    have included a HDMI connector in those next-next-generation systems,
    but in the meantime, there is no need to use HDMI in order to play
    high-definition movies at their maximum resolution. That’s why Sony
    can offer a model without HDMI and clarify that it will still be able
    to playback Blu-ray Disc movies without any image degradation.
    Microsoft has followed suit.

    If you were expecting a first-party HDMI cable for the Xbox 360, well
    my friend, I’m sorry to inform you that it might never happen.

    Be happy for the fact that you won’t need a new HDTV to watch HD-DVD
    on your Xbox 360 and Blu-ray Disc movies on your PlayStation 3. As for
    the fact that the Xbox 360 won’t have an HDMI cable, well… welcome to
    the HD Era.
    123, Jun 28, 2006
    #10
  11. Black Locust

    Not Swami Guest

    Re: The Secret HDMI Pact with Microsoft and Sony

    123 hasath spokeneth theseth wordeths ofeth wisethdometh:


    > TeamXbox.com crosspost garbage<



    --
    Not Swami, Jun 28, 2006
    #11
  12. Black Locust

    Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    Roy L. Fuchs, Jun 28, 2006
    #12
  13. Black Locust

    Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 05:43:51 GMT, 123 <> Gave us:

    >DVD never had such limitations on it which is why its so popular.



    DVD was never resolved so much that the studios cared. Now, they do.
    Also, the means was not available then as it is now.

    Get a clue.

    Leave to a rip off retard to make such a stupid remark. You are that
    retard.
    Roy L. Fuchs, Jun 28, 2006
    #13
  14. Black Locust

    Andrew Guest

    Re: The Secret HDMI Pact with Microsoft and Sony

    On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 05:46:25 GMT, 123 <> wrote:

    >Be happy for the fact that you won’t need a new HDTV to watch HD-DVD
    >on your Xbox 360 and Blu-ray Disc movies on your PlayStation 3. As for
    >the fact that the Xbox 360 won’t have an HDMI cable, well… welcome to
    >the HD Era.


    I am in the HD era for gaming. I couldn't give two hoots for HD movies
    right now, and when I do, I won't be playing them on a console.
    --
    Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
    Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
    please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
    Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
    Andrew, Jun 28, 2006
    #14
  15. Black Locust

    Alpha Guest

    "Roy L. Fuchs" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 05:43:51 GMT, 123 <> Gave us:
    >
    >>DVD never had such limitations on it which is why its so popular.

    >
    >
    > DVD was never resolved so much that the studios cared. Now, they do.
    > Also, the means was not available then as it is now.
    >
    > Get a clue.
    >
    > Leave to a rip off retard to make such a stupid remark. You are that
    > retard.


    You use the retard remark so often it continually proves, without any shadow
    of a doubt, that you are the superior prime example.
    Alpha, Jun 28, 2006
    #15
  16. Black Locust

    Alpha Guest

    "Roy L. Fuchs" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 27 Jun 2006 20:58:22 -0700, "jessica_smith_nyc"
    > <> Gave us:
    >
    >>
    >>The Beta...

    >
    > It takes a true Usenet retard to make a stupid, top posted, one line
    > reply to something, and re-quote the entire 216 lines of the original
    > message as well.
    >
    > Bone up on Usenet, you retarded bitch.
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting


    You cannot read your own links. SOME definitions of interenet etiquette.
    The article further states the problems with bottom posting.

    Retard.

    >
    > http://tools.ietf.org/html/1855
    Alpha, Jun 28, 2006
    #16
  17. Black Locust

    123 Guest

    On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 06:59:29 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
    <> wrote:

    >On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 05:43:51 GMT, 123 <> Gave us:
    >
    >>DVD never had such limitations on it which is why its so popular.

    >
    >
    > DVD was never resolved so much that the studios cared. Now, they do.
    >Also, the means was not available then as it is now.


    You have no idea. Before dvd there was something called vhs with macro
    copy protection which was also placed on dvd along with other copy
    protection.

    >
    > Get a clue.
    >
    > Leave to a rip off retard to make such a stupid remark. You are that
    >retard.


    Fact remains the new copy protection does not look like it will be
    cracked and even if it is it can be stopped pretty quickly.
    123, Jun 28, 2006
    #17
  18. Black Locust

    123 Guest

    On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 06:57:28 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
    <> wrote:

    >On 27 Jun 2006 20:58:22 -0700, "jessica_smith_nyc"
    ><> Gave us:
    >
    >>
    >>The Beta...

    >
    > It takes a true Usenet retard to make a stupid, top posted, one line
    >reply to something, and re-quote the entire 216 lines of the original
    >message as well.
    >
    > Bone up on Usenet, you retarded bitch.
    >
    >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting
    >
    >http://tools.ietf.org/html/1855


    Read up on the guidelines with the service provider you are with.


    I have sent an official complaint to your service provider. They have
    said they will look into this matter and advise for others to send
    complaints to -
    123, Jun 28, 2006
    #18
  19. Black Locust

    unclejr Guest

    123 wrote:
    > Read up on the guidelines with the service provider you are with.
    >
    >
    > I have sent an official complaint to your service provider. They have
    > said they will look into this matter and advise for others to send
    > complaints to -


    That will not stop immature fuckwits like DARKMATTER/Roy L. Fuchs one
    bit. HTH.

    -Junior
    unclejr, Jun 28, 2006
    #19
  20. Black Locust

    Guest

    > China MANUFACTURES products. They get designed elsewhere, and are
    > owned by companies centered elsewhere, so the "racket" you jack off at
    > the mouth about does NOT have ANYTHING to do with China.


    Correct .... I said "manufactured" moron, and whether the
    industrial-strength trash asia produces is conceived elsewhere or not,
    the result has everything to do with the poor quality that consumer
    stumps like you stand behind.
    , Jun 28, 2006
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Allan

    Blu-Ray Has Already Won.

    Allan, Mar 2, 2005, in forum: DVD Video
    Replies:
    24
    Views:
    846
  2. Fred Liken

    Re: Why Blu-ray has already won: Burners

    Fred Liken, Jul 17, 2006, in forum: DVD Video
    Replies:
    52
    Views:
    1,615
    Brenden D. Chase
    Aug 8, 2006
  3. Silverstrand
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    676
    Silverstrand
    Sep 25, 2006
  4. Blig Merk
    Replies:
    66
    Views:
    1,774
    StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
    Apr 27, 2008
  5. Gander

    Blu-Ray sales tank for good reasons

    Gander, May 5, 2008, in forum: DVD Video
    Replies:
    258
    Views:
    3,678
    The alMIGHTY N
    May 21, 2008
Loading...

Share This Page