10+ Mistakes Linux Newbies Make

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lawrence D'Oliveiro, May 15, 2010.

  1. Mostly a good summary
    <http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/10-mistakes-linux-newbies-make/34444>.

    I would rephrase 10 as “Don’t do a GUI login as rootâ€, as opposed to “Don’t
    login as rootâ€.

    11 surprises me. People can’t handle multiple desktops? Set their number of
    desktops to 1, then.

    2 & 4: forget trying to download random installers off the Internet. Stick
    to your package repositories, and learn to use the available tools for
    searching them. Only later, when you’ve built up some confidence, should you
    look at downloading and building from source packages. Never trust binary-
    only software.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, May 15, 2010
    #1
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  2. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Enkidu Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > Mostly a good summary
    > <http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/10-mistakes-linux-newbies-make/34444>.
    >
    > I would rephrase 10 as “Don’t do a GUI login as rootâ€, as opposed to “Don’t
    > login as rootâ€.
    >
    > 11 surprises me. People can’t handle multiple desktops? Set their number of
    > desktops to 1, then.
    >
    > 2 & 4: forget trying to download random installers off the Internet. Stick
    > to your package repositories, and learn to use the available tools for
    > searching them. Only later, when you’ve built up some confidence, should you
    > look at downloading and building from source packages. Never trust binary-
    > only software.


    8: ...Nor should you use spaces in filenames...

    Huh? Why not? I do, now and then.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

    The end excuses any evil - Sophocles
     
    Enkidu, May 15, 2010
    #2
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  3. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Gordon Guest

    On 2010-05-15, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:
    > Mostly a good summary
    ><http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/10-mistakes-linux-newbies-make/34444>.
    >
    > I would rephrase 10 as ?Don?t do a GUI login as root?, as opposed to ?Don?t
    > login as root?.
    >
    > 11 surprises me. People can?t handle multiple desktops? Set their number of
    > desktops to 1, then.


    No, No! show them that desktops are all about, ready to be recalled at a
    clack or two. For me Linux's virtual desktops is the selling point. Want to
    clear the decks, find and empty desktop in the taskbar and off you go. Ms
    Windows does frustrate me so in this area.

    Quote


    5: Sending OpenOffice documents to Microsoft Office users in the default
    format

    I see this so often. New Linux users are proud of the strides they have made
    but dumbfounded (and sometimes turned back to Windows) because the people
    they share files with can’t read their formats. Remember, Microsoft products
    are not good at getting along with other operating systems and other
    applications. Make sure your new users are saving in file formats that are
    readable by the Microsoft equivalents.

    Unquote.

    My response. If you can not read my open standards document then you better
    do something about it. Ms Windows attitude in the mirror some would say.
    Karma, is the other word for it
     
    Gordon, May 16, 2010
    #3
  4. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Gib Bogle Guest

    geoff wrote:
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> Mostly a good summary
    >> <http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/10-mistakes-linux-newbies-make/34444>.
    >>
    >> I would rephrase 10 as "Don't do a GUI login as root", as opposed to
    >> "Don't login as root".

    >
    > You are the only person I know who would actually prefer a GUI logon to a
    > root.


    What about a GUI root?
     
    Gib Bogle, May 16, 2010
    #4
  5. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Enkidu Guest

    On 16/05/10 17:26, Gordon wrote:
    > On 2010-05-15, Lawrence D'Oliveiro<_zealand>
    > wrote:
    >> Mostly a good summary
    >> <http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/10-mistakes-linux-newbies-make/34444>.
    >>
    >>
    >>

    I would rephrase 10 as ?Don?t do a GUI login as root?, as opposed to ?Don?t
    >> login as root?.
    >>
    >> 11 surprises me. People can?t handle multiple desktops? Set their
    >> number of desktops to 1, then.

    >
    > No, No! show them that desktops are all about, ready to be recalled
    > at a clack or two. For me Linux's virtual desktops is the selling
    > point. Want to clear the decks, find and empty desktop in the taskbar
    > and off you go. Ms Windows does frustrate me so in this area.
    >

    I think multiple desktop actually cause more clicking around. I tried to
    use them but I was always click, click, clicking to find things.

    If they work for you, fine. But for most people, they don't work.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

    The end excuses any evil - Sophocles
     
    Enkidu, May 16, 2010
    #5
  6. In message <hsoj70$ge0$>, EMB wrote:

    > An attitude like yours, of failing to accept that the most widely used
    > (and thus the de-facto standard) document format may be proprietary ...


    Which is the “most widely used (and thus the de-facto standard) document
    format� Is it Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel, Microsoft PowerPoint or
    something else? Which version of Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel, Microsoft
    PowerPoint or something else? Can people using Microsoft Office 2007 or
    later happily send out their documents and assume that everybody else will
    be able to read them?

    Is, in fact, the volume of Office documents as large as the total number of
    HTML pages in the world? If not, then HTML would be more likely to be the
    “most widely used (and thus the de-facto standard) document formatâ€, would
    it not? And that is far from a proprietary format.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, May 17, 2010
    #6
  7. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Enkidu Guest

    On 17/05/10 10:52, Allistar wrote:
    > Enkidu wrote:
    >
    >> On 16/05/10 17:26, Gordon wrote:
    >>> On 2010-05-15, Lawrence D'Oliveiro<_zealand>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>> Mostly a good summary
    >>>> <http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/10-mistakes-linux-newbies-make/34444>.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>

    >> I would rephrase 10 as ?Don?t do a GUI login as root?, as opposed to
    >> ?Don?t
    >>>> login as root?.
    >>>>
    >>>> 11 surprises me. People can?t handle multiple desktops? Set their
    >>>> number of desktops to 1, then.
    >>>
    >>> No, No! show them that desktops are all about, ready to be recalled
    >>> at a clack or two. For me Linux's virtual desktops is the selling
    >>> point. Want to clear the decks, find and empty desktop in the taskbar
    >>> and off you go. Ms Windows does frustrate me so in this area.
    >>>

    >> I think multiple desktop actually cause more clicking around. I tried to
    >> use them but I was always click, click, clicking to find things.
    >>
    >> If they work for you, fine. But for most people, they don't work.

    >
    > It depends how you have it configured. On my home computer I move the mouse
    > to the left hand of the screen and it then zooms the current desktop out
    > and shows the other desktops. I then click on the one I want. This is using
    > Compiz Fusion - you can bind nearly any key or mouse action to swapping
    > desktops.
    >

    Start Key + E does similar, but it is still too hard to find things, the
    images are so small.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

    The end excuses any evil - Sophocles
     
    Enkidu, May 17, 2010
    #7
  8. In message <hsquja$61s$>, EMB wrote:

    > On 17/05/2010 11:11 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> In message<hsoj70$ge0$>, EMB wrote:
    >>
    >>> An attitude like yours, of failing to accept that the most widely used
    >>> (and thus the de-facto standard) document format may be proprietary ...

    >>
    >> Which is the “most widely used (and thus the de-facto standard) document
    >> format� Is it Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel, Microsoft PowerPoint or
    >> something else? Which version of Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel,
    >> Microsoft PowerPoint or something else? Can people using Microsoft Office
    >> 2007 or later happily send out their documents and assume that everybody
    >> else will be able to read them?

    >
    > .doc, .xls and .ppt are undeniably the most widely used (and de-facto
    > standard) document formats of their respective types.


    But those are Microsoft Office 2003 formats. What about Office 2007 or
    later? Are they supposed to downgrade to Office 2003, then?

    >> Is, in fact, the volume of Office documents as large as the total number
    >> of HTML pages in the world? If not, then HTML would be more likely to be
    >> the “most widely used (and thus the de-facto standard) document formatâ€,
    >> would it not? And that is far from a proprietary format.

    >
    > HTML does not make a good spreadsheet format, nor a particularly good
    > slideshow format, and is not an efficient word processing format.


    You haven’t noticed the popularity of Web-based apps, then?

    > And it far from a standard either.


    Then how come so much of it works so well in so many different browsers, on
    so many different platforms? Can you say the same for multi-application,
    multi-platform support of Microsoft Office formats?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, May 17, 2010
    #8
  9. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Sweetpea Guest

    On Mon, 17 May 2010 20:26:15 +1200, EMB wrote:

    > On 17/05/2010 11:11 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> In message<hsoj70$ge0$>, EMB wrote:
    >>
    >>> An attitude like yours, of failing to accept that the most widely used
    >>> (and thus the de-facto standard) document format may be proprietary
    >>> ...

    >>
    >> Which is the “most widely used (and thus the de-facto standard)
    >> document format� Is it Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel, Microsoft
    >> PowerPoint or something else? Which version of Microsoft Word,
    >> Microsoft Excel, Microsoft PowerPoint or something else? Can people
    >> using Microsoft Office 2007 or later happily send out their documents
    >> and assume that everybody else will be able to read them?

    >
    > Don't be deliberately obtuse Larry. .doc, .xls and .ppt are undeniably
    > the most widely used (and de-facto standard) document formats of their
    > respective types.


    However, they are not the default file formats of the current version of M$ Office - a non-standard XML-
    based file format (docx etc) is.

    And, the next version of M$ Office will have a different (non standard - "transitional") file format again.

    If users of those two versions of M$ Office save their documents in their respective default file formats
    then they are using non-standard file formats and can't reasonably expect other people to read them.


    >> Is, in fact, the volume of Office documents as large as the total
    >> number of HTML pages in the world? If not, then HTML would be more
    >> likely to be the “most widely used (and thus the de-facto standard)
    >> document formatâ€, would it not? And that is far from a proprietary
    >> format.

    >
    > HTML does not make a good spreadsheet format, nor a particularly good
    > slideshow format, and is not an efficient word processing format. And it
    > far from a standard either.


    Nobody is suggesting that HTML is a spreadsheet format or a format for slide-show presentations.
    Lawrence was (rightly) pointing out that there are considerably more documents in HTML format than in
    any other format and therefore the normal/standard document format is HTML.

    Assessed by numerical quantity this is undeniably the case.


    --
    "Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
     
    Sweetpea, May 17, 2010
    #9
  10. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    John Little Guest

    Re: Another Larry D'Loser con job exposed


    > And with the free addon supplied by Microsoft, Office 2007 documents...


    Which requires knowledge and an administrator to install. The use
    of .pdf files to transfer documents increased greatly owing to so many
    computers barfing on .docx files. MS also took its time making the
    add-on to Office 2003 available. I also hear complaints from my
    family about formatting changing using the add-on.

    Regards, John
     
    John Little, May 17, 2010
    #10
  11. In article <hsquja$61s$>, EMB <> wrote:
    >On 17/05/2010 11:11 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> In message<hsoj70$ge0$>, EMB wrote:
    >>
    >>> An attitude like yours, of failing to accept that the most widely used
    >>> (and thus the de-facto standard) document format may be proprietary ...

    >>
    >> Which is the “most widely used (and thus the de-facto standard) document
    >> format� Is it Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel, Microsoft PowerPoint or
    >> something else? Which version of Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel, Microsoft
    >> PowerPoint or something else? Can people using Microsoft Office 2007 or
    >> later happily send out their documents and assume that everybody else will
    >> be able to read them?

    >
    >Don't be deliberately obtuse Larry. .doc, .xls and .ppt are undeniably
    >the most widely used (and de-facto standard) document formats of their
    >respective types.


    The real question here, should be ... is that a good thing ? I'm already
    on record as saying it isn't. Open document formats are the only sane way to
    go. :)
    I was pleased to see the SSC saying something similar recently. Hoora !
     
    Bruce Sinclair, May 18, 2010
    #11
  12. In message
    <>, John
    Little wrote:

    > I also hear complaints from my family about formatting changing using the
    > add-on.


    If you can’t get a guarantee of preservation of formatting from Microsoft,
    what’s the point in continuing to pay them money? You might as well give
    OpenOffice.org a try.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, May 18, 2010
    #12
  13. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    John Little Guest


    > If you can’t get a guarantee of preservation of formatting from Microsoft,
    > what’s the point in continuing to pay them money? You might as well give
    > OpenOffice.org a try.


    Been using it for years myself, before I moved to Linux at home, and I
    prefer it now. It saved me a lot of grief once. Office costs $20 for
    home use through corporate deals, and at that price I once thought it
    worth it. However, that was $20 we (as a family) paid to assist a
    pernicious monopoly, I'll oppose it next time.

    Regards, John
     
    John Little, May 18, 2010
    #13
  14. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    John Little Guest

    Re: Another Larry D'Loser con job exposed


    > My lady-friend's 80-year-old mother did it just fine, without assistance.
    >
    > A couple of clix (in Word 2007) and your default saving format is doc/2003.


    I was talking about having Word 2003 and getting a .docx file, not the
    same.

    Regards, John
     
    John Little, May 18, 2010
    #14
  15. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    John Little Guest

    Re: Another Larry D'Loser con job exposed

    Thank you for one of nz.comp's badges of honour, way OTT attacks from
    impossible. (I just need to get a crap mark from Woger, now.)

    > And with the free addon supplied by Microsoft, Office 2007 documents
    > can also be read and edited  in Office 2003.


    > > Which requires knowledge and an administrator to install.


    > ??? No, it doesn't. What kind of imbecile are you? Click, install, done.


    Click, install, done is how malware spreads. I thought one couldn't
    install stuff in Windows unless one is an administrator, and that we
    educate users not to install stuff just because something they got in
    an e-mail told them to.

    > The pdf format has been popular for ages ...


    But not so popular for simple documents from organizations like
    schools, churches, and sports teams until .docx came along (is my
    suggestion).

    Thanks again, John
     
    John Little, May 18, 2010
    #15
  16. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Dave Doe Guest

    Re: Another Larry D'Loser con job exposed

    In article <da107934-fc8c-4c46-911b-8743922c6e46@
    42g2000prb.googlegroups.com>, says...
    >
    > > My lady-friend's 80-year-old mother did it just fine, without assistance.
    > >
    > > A couple of clix (in Word 2007) and your default saving format is doc/2003.

    >
    > I was talking about having Word 2003 and getting a .docx file, not the
    > same.
    >
    > Regards, John


    Your point?

    --
    Duncan.
     
    Dave Doe, May 18, 2010
    #16
  17. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Dave Doe Guest

    Re: Another Larry D'Loser con job exposed

    In article <985d82f5-bf49-4b15-97da-dca966fd1f98
    @q36g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, says...
    >
    > Thank you for one of nz.comp's badges of honour, way OTT attacks from
    > impossible. (I just need to get a crap mark from Woger, now.)
    >
    > > And with the free addon supplied by Microsoft, Office 2007 documents
    > > can also be read and edited  in Office 2003.

    >
    > > > Which requires knowledge and an administrator to install.

    >
    > > ??? No, it doesn't. What kind of imbecile are you? Click, install, done..

    >
    > Click, install, done is how malware spreads. I thought one couldn't
    > install stuff in Windows unless one is an administrator, and that we
    > educate users not to install stuff just because something they got in
    > an e-mail told them to.


    If the user doesn't run as admin privilege in Windows (you do by default
    in Win XP and earlier - a long held critisism of all MS OS's before
    Vista Win7 etc), right click the installer and "run as" (an
    administrative user).


    --
    Duncan.
     
    Dave Doe, May 18, 2010
    #17
  18. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    victor Guest

    Re: Another Larry D'Loser con job exposed

    On 18/05/2010 11:17 p.m., John Little wrote:
    > Thank you for one of nz.comp's badges of honour, way OTT attacks from
    > impossible. (I just need to get a crap mark from Woger, now.)
    >
    >> And with the free addon supplied by Microsoft, Office 2007 documents
    >> can also be read and edited in Office 2003.

    >
    >>> Which requires knowledge and an administrator to install.

    >
    >> ??? No, it doesn't. What kind of imbecile are you? Click, install, done.

    >
    > Click, install, done is how malware spreads. I thought one couldn't
    > install stuff in Windows unless one is an administrator, and that we
    > educate users not to install stuff just because something they got in
    > an e-mail told them to.
    >
    >> The pdf format has been popular for ages ...

    >
    > But not so popular for simple documents from organizations like
    > schools, churches, and sports teams until .docx came along (is my
    > suggestion).
    >
    > Thanks again, John


    If you just get the odd attachment, one easy way to view or convert them
    is to upload them to Google Docs.
    A good way to share them too, and convert them into web pages.
    I see there is now an extension available for OpenOffice that imports
    and exports directly to and from Google Docs and Zoho.
     
    victor, May 18, 2010
    #18
  19. Re: Another Larry D'Loser con job exposed

    In article <>, "geoff" <> wrote:
    (snip)

    >Fine, but anybody who can save a docx can save a doc instead with one extra
    >click and a bit of a scroll. Or easily set it to default to doc


    Agreed. That typed, many people say "word document" ... which makes me think
    that they think there's only one format for such a thing. That is backed up
    by the number of times I've heard people say something like ... "word is
    broken, it won't open my document", only to find out that it was simply
    version incompatibility.
    People really should know a little about things they use. :)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, May 19, 2010
    #19
  20. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Brocker Guest

    Re: Another Larry D'Loser con job exposed

    My biggest problem is that my Wordstar doesn't seem to open anything
    anymore so I agree all these evolving formats are a real pain. I'm
    with LDO on this one we should never have moved past plain text files
    and edlin!
     
    Brocker, May 19, 2010
    #20
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