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Another net

 
 
Hactar
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      01-25-2014
In article <2014012410005912209-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>
> *spanner* is very much an Anglo term seldom used in the USA as in the
> UK and UK influenced countries, where it is used to cover a whole bunch
> of tools we give different names to here. Show most British any of the
> following; an "open ended wrench", a "box wrench", a "crescent wrench",
> or "monkey wrench" and he will identify any of them as a spanner,
> usually without differentiation other than specific size. He might call
> what we know as a "Crescent wrench", an "adjustable spanner", or a
> 'monkey wrench/pipe wrench" a "pipe spanner".
>
> The only fields where I have heard the term "spanner" used for a tool
> in the USA has been for some watchmaker's tools, and for some
> photographic lens repair tools. Even then, so that the American mind
> can understand that they are tools, they will call them
> "spanner-wrenches". Though there might be some other US users who might
> speak of "spanners".
> <
> http://www.micro-tools.com/store/P-S...e-Economy.aspx


When I worked on my bike with my dad, he called one of these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130831514329

(used to adjust the rear shock absorbers) a spanner, or a
"spanner-wrench", I forget. We're USans.

--
-eben http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) royalty.mine.nu:81
LIBRA: A big promotion is just around the corner for someone
much more talented than you. Laughter is the very best medicine,
remember that when your appendix bursts next week. -- Weird Al
 
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Tony Cooper
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      01-25-2014
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 15:12:18 +1300, Eric Stevens
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>rOn Fri, 24 Jan 2014 20:49:33 -0500, Tony Cooper
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 12:20:20 +1300, Eric Stevens
>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 09:16:39 -0500, Tony Cooper
>>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 24 Jan 2014 08:57:53 GMT, Sandman <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> > > Tony Cooper:
>>>>>> > > Another statue from the Albin Polasek Museum and Sculpture
>>>>>> > > Garden placed in a setting that the statue's pose seemed to
>>>>>> > > suggest. This one was a bit more difficult since the statue's
>>>>>> > > arm had to be re-positioned to accommodate the racket. I don't
>>>>>> > > have the racket positioned right in his hand, though.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > I have too much time on my hands.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Curren...-01-19B-X2.jpg
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Ron:
>>>>>> > Too much time, yes. But while you're at it, make him cast a shadow
>>>>>> > on the court and you'll really have something. Very cute.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I posted this at Dgrin and the same comment was made. I've never
>>>>>> tried adding a shadow, but there are tutorials on it. I'm not going
>>>>>> to bother for something like this, but I would if I was trying to
>>>>>> create a realistic scene.
>>>>>
>>>>>Here's a tutorial I wrote on the subject way back:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://sandman.net/pages/3dskuggorMedPhotoshop?lang=en
>>>>
>>>>Thanks. That's a well-presented tutorial. Good job.
>>>>
>>>>Unless I get extremely bored this afternoon, I'm not going to try to
>>>>create a shadow for this composite. It was just a little exercise in
>>>>making some rather dull shots into something a little more
>>>>interesting.
>>>>
>>>>I bought an inexpensive video camera yesterday so my grandchildren can
>>>>make movies, and I'm into a new project now: working with a software
>>>>program to edit the movies.
>>>>
>>>>As a point of interest, but not intended as a point of contention,
>>>>that tool in your tutorial is called a crescent wrench in the US and
>>>>a monkey wrench in other countries.
>>>
>>> ... some other countries, perhaps. But
>>>http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._1903_p172.png
>>>is the style of the original monkey wrench and
>>>http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Fi...key_Wrench.jpg is the style
>>>of wrench to which the name has become attached.
>>>>
>>>>A monkey wrench in the US looks like this: http://tinyurl.com/9m2w7dw
>>>
>>>Nope. That's a Stillson wrench, designed for gripping pipe. See
>>>http://inventors.about.com/library/i...s/blwrench.htm

>>
>>
>>It isn't what it *is*, it's what it's *called*. In the US, if you
>>want to buy one of these, and go into a hardware store, you'd ask for
>>a "monkey wrench" or a "pipe wrench". Some hardware store clerks
>>would know "Stillson wrench", but some wouldn't.

>
>I wouldn't deal with those stores if I could avoid them.


In real life, it isn't really that way. Hardware store are not all
that big, and all the different types of wrenches are going to be in
the same area. So, you walk over there and pick out what you want.

The "big box" stores like Home Depot are the same, but bigger.

The only time the term itself would be a problem is if you wanted to
borrow a tool from a neighbor. In that case, I'd ask for a monkey
wrench.

The only point I'm making is that many things, including tools, are
called different things in different countries.

>Nor would I
>let semi-informed store clerks dictate the proper names of things to
>me.


Well, would you bother correcting the clerk? To me, it's more
important to find what I want.


Besides, what would you say to them if you wanted to buy the
>http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...key_Wrench.jpg
>style of wrench?


As far as I can tell, it's just a monkey wrench or pipe wrench. If it
has notched jaws to grab onto a round pipe it's a monkey wrench. If
it has smooth jaws to tighten a nut, then it's just an adjustable
wrench.

>In any case, see what
>http://www.aliexpress.com/price/monk...nch-price.html calls a
>monkey wrench.


Yeah, but that's a Chinese site. They're covering the bases as far as
terms by using monkey wrench and spanner and showing a photograph of
it.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
 
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Hactar
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-25-2014
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Eric Stevens <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 11:53:05 -0500, (E-Mail Removed) (Hactar)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> >PeterN <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >> On 1/24/2014 9:16 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> >
> >> > As a point of interest, but not intended as a point of contention,
> >> > that tool in your tutorial is called a crescent wrench in the US and
> >> > a monkey wrench in other countries.
> >> >
> >> > A monkey wrench in the US looks like this: http://tinyurl.com/9m2w7dw
> >> > It's also called a "pipe wrench" here. The monkey wrench has notched
> >> > and gripping jaws, but our Crescent wrench has smooth jaws.
> >> >
> >> > The US use of "crescent wrench" is from the popularity of the tool
> >> > when introduced here, and made by, the Crescent company. Using the
> >> > tool company's name for the tool is similar to calling an adjustable
> >> > spanner a Bahco after Johan Johansson's company.
> >>
> >> I filled multiple roles in my Army reserve unit, including motor
> >> sergeant. I once drove the lieutenant crazy when I requested that he
> >> requisition a left handed crescent wrench.

> >
> >A left-handed monkey/crescent/adjustable/pipe wrench is theoretically
> >possible by having a left-handed thread on the adjuster. I've never seen
> >or heard of one outside of a joke, but there it is. A left-handed Allen
> >wrench or striped paint, I don't think so.

>
> Over the years I have accumulated a collection of Crescent-style
> spanners of various makes. Some have left-handed threads. Others have
> right-handed. I have never found it makes much difference until you
> pick up one which rotates the other way from the way you are used to.


I haven't used one often enough that I know innately how it should work.
So if one worked the "wrong" way, I might notice, but it shouldn't
present much trouble. At least, I don't think it would, never having
run into one.

--
-eben (E-Mail Removed) royalty.mine.nu:81
LIBRA: A big promotion is just around the corner for someone
much more talented than you. Laughter is the very best medicine,
remember that when your appendix bursts next week. -- Weird Al
 
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J. Clarke
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-25-2014
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, tonycooper214
@gmail.com says...
>
> On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 15:12:18 +1300, Eric Stevens
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >rOn Fri, 24 Jan 2014 20:49:33 -0500, Tony Cooper
> ><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> >>On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 12:20:20 +1300, Eric Stevens
> >><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 09:16:39 -0500, Tony Cooper
> >>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>On 24 Jan 2014 08:57:53 GMT, Sandman <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> > > Tony Cooper:
> >>>>>> > > Another statue from the Albin Polasek Museum and Sculpture
> >>>>>> > > Garden placed in a setting that the statue's pose seemed to
> >>>>>> > > suggest. This one was a bit more difficult since the statue's
> >>>>>> > > arm had to be re-positioned to accommodate the racket. I don't
> >>>>>> > > have the racket positioned right in his hand, though.
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> > > I have too much time on my hands.
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> > > http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Curren...-01-19B-X2.jpg
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> > Ron:
> >>>>>> > Too much time, yes. But while you're at it, make him cast a shadow
> >>>>>> > on the court and you'll really have something. Very cute.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I posted this at Dgrin and the same comment was made. I've never
> >>>>>> tried adding a shadow, but there are tutorials on it. I'm not going
> >>>>>> to bother for something like this, but I would if I was trying to
> >>>>>> create a realistic scene.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Here's a tutorial I wrote on the subject way back:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>http://sandman.net/pages/3dskuggorMedPhotoshop?lang=en
> >>>>
> >>>>Thanks. That's a well-presented tutorial. Good job.
> >>>>
> >>>>Unless I get extremely bored this afternoon, I'm not going to try to
> >>>>create a shadow for this composite. It was just a little exercise in
> >>>>making some rather dull shots into something a little more
> >>>>interesting.
> >>>>
> >>>>I bought an inexpensive video camera yesterday so my grandchildren can
> >>>>make movies, and I'm into a new project now: working with a software
> >>>>program to edit the movies.
> >>>>
> >>>>As a point of interest, but not intended as a point of contention,
> >>>>that tool in your tutorial is called a crescent wrench in the US and
> >>>>a monkey wrench in other countries.
> >>>
> >>> ... some other countries, perhaps. But
> >>>http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._1903_p172.png
> >>>is the style of the original monkey wrench and
> >>>http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Fi...key_Wrench.jpg is the style
> >>>of wrench to which the name has become attached.
> >>>>
> >>>>A monkey wrench in the US looks like this: http://tinyurl.com/9m2w7dw
> >>>
> >>>Nope. That's a Stillson wrench, designed for gripping pipe. See
> >>>http://inventors.about.com/library/i...s/blwrench.htm
> >>
> >>
> >>It isn't what it *is*, it's what it's *called*. In the US, if you
> >>want to buy one of these, and go into a hardware store, you'd ask for
> >>a "monkey wrench" or a "pipe wrench". Some hardware store clerks
> >>would know "Stillson wrench", but some wouldn't.

> >
> >I wouldn't deal with those stores if I could avoid them.

>
> In real life, it isn't really that way. Hardware store are not all
> that big, and all the different types of wrenches are going to be in
> the same area. So, you walk over there and pick out what you want.
>
> The "big box" stores like Home Depot are the same, but bigger.
>
> The only time the term itself would be a problem is if you wanted to
> borrow a tool from a neighbor. In that case, I'd ask for a monkey
> wrench.
>
> The only point I'm making is that many things, including tools, are
> called different things in different countries.
>
> >Nor would I
> >let semi-informed store clerks dictate the proper names of things to
> >me.

>
> Well, would you bother correcting the clerk? To me, it's more
> important to find what I want.
>
>
> Besides, what would you say to them if you wanted to buy the
> >http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...key_Wrench.jpg
> >style of wrench?

>
> As far as I can tell, it's just a monkey wrench or pipe wrench. If it
> has notched jaws to grab onto a round pipe it's a monkey wrench. If
> it has smooth jaws to tighten a nut, then it's just an adjustable
> wrench.
>
> >In any case, see what
> >http://www.aliexpress.com/price/monk...nch-price.html calls a
> >monkey wrench.

>
> Yeah, but that's a Chinese site. They're covering the bases as far as
> terms by using monkey wrench and spanner and showing a photograph of
> it.
>


Hong-Kongese actually--not quite the same as Chinese (remember that Hong
Kong was part of the British empire until not to long ago).

 
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PeterN
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      01-25-2014
On 1/24/2014 6:34 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:

<snip>
>
> Over the years I have accumulated a collection of Crescent-style
> spanners of various makes. Some have left-handed threads. Others have
> right-handed. I have never found it makes much difference until you
> pick up one which rotates the other way from the way you are used to.
>


Aren't the reverse threads used more in NZ & OX? ;-o

--
PeterN
 
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PeterN
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      01-25-2014
On 1/24/2014 9:56 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> On 2014-01-25 02:12:18 +0000, Eric Stevens <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>
>> rOn Fri, 24 Jan 2014 20:49:33 -0500, Tony Cooper
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 12:20:20 +1300, Eric Stevens
>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 09:16:39 -0500, Tony Cooper
>>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 24 Jan 2014 08:57:53 GMT, Sandman <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Tony
>>>>>> Cooper wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tony Cooper:
>>>>>>>>> Another statue from the Albin Polasek Museum and Sculpture
>>>>>>>>> Garden placed in a setting that the statue's pose seemed to
>>>>>>>>> suggest. This one was a bit more difficult since the statue's
>>>>>>>>> arm had to be re-positioned to accommodate the racket. I don't
>>>>>>>>> have the racket positioned right in his hand, though.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have too much time on my hands.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Curren...-01-19B-X2.jpg
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ron:
>>>>>>>> Too much time, yes. But while you're at it, make him cast a shadow
>>>>>>>> on the court and you'll really have something. Very cute.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I posted this at Dgrin and the same comment was made. I've never
>>>>>>> tried adding a shadow, but there are tutorials on it. I'm not going
>>>>>>> to bother for something like this, but I would if I was trying to
>>>>>>> create a realistic scene.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's a tutorial I wrote on the subject way back:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://sandman.net/pages/3dskuggorMedPhotoshop?lang=en
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks. That's a well-presented tutorial. Good job.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless I get extremely bored this afternoon, I'm not going to try to
>>>>> create a shadow for this composite. It was just a little exercise in
>>>>> making some rather dull shots into something a little more
>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>
>>>>> I bought an inexpensive video camera yesterday so my grandchildren can
>>>>> make movies, and I'm into a new project now: working with a software
>>>>> program to edit the movies.
>>>>>
>>>>> As a point of interest, but not intended as a point of contention,
>>>>> that tool in your tutorial is called a crescent wrench in the US and
>>>>> a monkey wrench in other countries.
>>>>
>>>> ... some other countries, perhaps. But
>>>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._1903_p172.png
>>>>

> is
>>>>
>>>> the style of the original monkey wrench and
>>>> http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Fi...key_Wrench.jpg is the style
>>>> of wrench to which the name has become attached.
>>>>>
>>>>> A monkey wrench in the US looks like this: http://tinyurl.com/9m2w7dw
>>>>
>>>> Nope. That's a Stillson wrench, designed for gripping pipe. See
>>>> http://inventors.about.com/library/i...s/blwrench.htm
>>>
>>>
>>> It isn't what it *is*, it's what it's *called*. In the US, if you
>>> want to buy one of these, and go into a hardware store, you'd ask for
>>> a "monkey wrench" or a "pipe wrench". Some hardware store clerks
>>> would know "Stillson wrench", but some wouldn't.

>>
>> I wouldn't deal with those stores if I could avoid them. Nor would I
>> let semi-informed store clerks dictate the proper names of things to
>> me. Besides, what would you say to them if you wanted to buy the
>> http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...key_Wrench.jpg
>>

> style
>>
>> of wrench?

>
> I would say I wanted a pipe wrench. If they looked baffled, I would say
> "you know, a monkey wrench."
>
>> I've also heard them called 'pipe tongs', which name derives from the
>> days when pipes were handled by real tongs. See
>> http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/26000/260...ongs_26050.htm

>
> ...and those are certainly tongs, it's a good thing old Dan Stillson
> came up with his idea.
>
>> In any case, see what
>> http://www.aliexpress.com/price/monk...nch-price.html calls a
>> monkey wrench.

>
> Now that is a questionable vendor site and hardly authoritarian
> regarding cultural tool nomenclature or naming, given its Hong Kong
> location.
> Only when you scroll down to #10 would you get to what we would call a
> "monkey or pipe wrench".
> The adjustable wrenches in positions #1, #3-#9, #12-#17, &29-#30 are
> typically called "crescent wrenches" in the USA, even if they are not
> made by Apex Tool, which now owns the former Crescent Tool company.
> <
> http://www.apexhandtools.com/brands/...c=037103194510
>


Glad you posted the link. I thought you were talking about tongs like
this, which can easily lead to monkeying around.

<http://www.yandy.com/Shopping/home/cat_gstring.asp?P=all>

--
PeterN
 
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Sandman
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      01-25-2014
In article <201401241013182418-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>, Savageduck wrote:

> > > The Crescent would get the "monkey wrench" appellation due to
> > > similarity of function to the original, while the Stillson would
> > > get it due to similarity of appearance.

> >
> > Sandman:
> > I'm not arguing with that, but I fail to see the similarities
> > between the Stillson and a monkey, but I suppose I'm just missing
> > something obvious

>
> Daniel Chapman Stillson was the inventor/designer of that particular
> "pipe wrench". <
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Chapman_Stillson >


That... still doesn't explain this supposed "smiliarity of appearance"
between a stillson and a monkey

> > Sandman:
> > While I'm sure it's used here in Sweden, I think a more common
> > wrench is what we call Rörtång, or "pipe pliers", which look
> > like this:

>
> > http://tinyurl.com/npmrq4d

>
> > As you can see, it has a similar funciton to what you call monkey
> > wrench.

>
> Yup! Same tool, different name, in a different country, speaking a
> different language.


But the tool doesn't look identical. The "pipe pliers" use a screw to
adjust the head, then you pinch the handles (hence "pliers") to tighten the
grip around the pipe.

The monkey wrench seems to be just a sort of adjustable wrench, where the
grib around a pipe comes from the slanted jaws, or at least that's how it
looks to me.

> As Tony said, you are more likely to hear "pipe wrench used here
> today, though most people will usually know what a "monkey wrench
> is, and use the term interchangeably with "pipe wrench". <
> http://www.irwin.com/tools/pipe-wren...ng-pipe-wrench
> >





--
Sandman[.net]
 
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J. Clarke
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      01-25-2014
In article <2014012515050550148-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com says...
>
> On 2014-01-25 22:10:51 +0000, Sandman <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>
> > In article <201401241013182418-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>, Savageduck wrote:
> >
> >>>> The Crescent would get the "monkey wrench" appellation due to
> >>>> similarity of function to the original, while the Stillson would
> >>>> get it due to similarity of appearance.
> >>>
> >>> Sandman:
> >>> I'm not arguing with that, but I fail to see the similarities
> >>> between the Stillson and a monkey, but I suppose I'm just missing
> >>> something obvious
> >>
> >> Daniel Chapman Stillson was the inventor/designer of that particular
> >> "pipe wrench". <
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Chapman_Stillson >

> >
> > That... still doesn't explain this supposed "smiliarity of appearance"
> > between a stillson and a monkey

>
> It has nothing to do with appearance. It has to do with word & worker
> associations and the age it came into being. There are several pieces
> of word origin mythology some of which are not factual and some which
> are conjecture.
> The myth not supported by fact is the idea that "monkey wrench" was
> derived as a play on words using the name of a supposed inventor of the
> tool, one "Charles Moncky" as a source. However, this has been proven
> to be fabricated myth as there is no patent record as there is for
> Daniel Stillson & Loring Coes.
>
> A more likely origin lies in 19th century slang usage of the word
> "monkey" and how it was applied to workers doing repetitive work seen
> as beneath the more privileged. Among those workers would be boiler and
> sewerage workers, and plumbers all trades seen as inferior by
> "gentlemen" employing only "monkeys". In those days a pipe wrench would
> be conspicuous in its use by any of those tradesmen, hence a wrench
> used by "monkeys". There would never be a need for a "gentleman" to
> know what any tool was properly named.
> The term "monkey" for those engaged in trades supporting the lifestyles
> of the rich and famous evolved in the 20th century when an auto
> mechanic was called a "grease monkey".
>
> >>> Sandman:
> >>> While I'm sure it's used here in Sweden, I think a more common
> >>> wrench is what we call Rrtng, or "pipe pliers", which look
> >>> like this:
> >>
> >>> http://tinyurl.com/npmrq4d
> >>
> >>> As you can see, it has a similar funciton to what you call monkey
> >>> wrench.
> >>
> >> Yup! Same tool, different name, in a different country, speaking a
> >> different language.

> >
> > But the tool doesn't look identical. The "pipe pliers" use a screw to
> > adjust the head, then you pinch the handles (hence "pliers") to tighten the
> > grip around the pipe.

>
> Perhaps I should have said "similar" tool made for a similar purpose,
> rather than same tool.
>
> > The monkey wrench seems to be just a sort of adjustable wrench, where the
> > grib around a pipe comes from the slanted jaws, or at least that's how it
> > looks to me.

>
> Yup! that is how it works.
>
> >> As Tony said, you are more likely to hear "pipe wrench used here
> >> today, though most people will usually know what a "monkey wrench
> >> is, and use the term interchangeably with "pipe wrench". <
> >> http://www.irwin.com/tools/pipe-wren...ng-pipe-wrench
> >>>

> >
> >


I think that I am guilty of not making myself clear. The wrench that
(IMO) bears a resemblance to a monkey is this one
<http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._wrench_deriva
tive_from_Rogers_1903_p172.png>

I did not mean to imply that the Stillson resembles a monkey. My intent
was that due it its jaw moving roughly parallel to the handle and being
adjusted with a screw roughly parallel to the handle, it was similar in
layout to the one that looks like a monkey and so was associated with
it.


 
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Tony Cooper
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      01-25-2014
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 15:05:05 -0800, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>On 2014-01-25 22:10:51 +0000, Sandman <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>
>> In article <201401241013182418-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>, Savageduck wrote:
>>
>>>>> The Crescent would get the "monkey wrench" appellation due to
>>>>> similarity of function to the original, while the Stillson would
>>>>> get it due to similarity of appearance.
>>>>
>>>> Sandman:
>>>> I'm not arguing with that, but I fail to see the similarities
>>>> between the Stillson and a monkey, but I suppose I'm just missing
>>>> something obvious
>>>
>>> Daniel Chapman Stillson was the inventor/designer of that particular
>>> "pipe wrench". <
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Chapman_Stillson >

>>
>> That... still doesn't explain this supposed "smiliarity of appearance"
>> between a stillson and a monkey

>
>It has nothing to do with appearance. It has to do with word & worker
>associations and the age it came into being. There are several pieces
>of word origin mythology some of which are not factual and some which
>are conjecture.
>The myth not supported by fact is the idea that "monkey wrench" was
>derived as a play on words using the name of a supposed inventor of the
>tool, one "Charles Moncky" as a source. However, this has been proven
>to be fabricated myth as there is no patent record as there is for
>Daniel Stillson & Loring Coes.
>
>A more likely origin lies in 19th century slang usage of the word
>"monkey" and how it was applied to workers doing repetitive work seen
>as beneath the more privileged. Among those workers would be boiler and
>sewerage workers, and plumbers all trades seen as inferior by
>"gentlemen" employing only "monkeys". In those days a pipe wrench would
>be conspicuous in its use by any of those tradesmen, hence a wrench
>used by "monkeys". There would never be a need for a "gentleman" to
>know what any tool was properly named.
>The term "monkey" for those engaged in trades supporting the lifestyles
>of the rich and famous evolved in the 20th century when an auto
>mechanic was called a "grease monkey".
>
>>>> Sandman:
>>>> While I'm sure it's used here in Sweden, I think a more common
>>>> wrench is what we call Rrtng, or "pipe pliers", which look
>>>> like this:
>>>
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/npmrq4d
>>>
>>>> As you can see, it has a similar funciton to what you call monkey
>>>> wrench.
>>>
>>> Yup! Same tool, different name, in a different country, speaking a
>>> different language.

>>
>> But the tool doesn't look identical. The "pipe pliers" use a screw to
>> adjust the head, then you pinch the handles (hence "pliers") to tighten the
>> grip around the pipe.

>
>Perhaps I should have said "similar" tool made for a similar purpose,
>rather than same tool.
>
>> The monkey wrench seems to be just a sort of adjustable wrench, where the
>> grib around a pipe comes from the slanted jaws, or at least that's how it
>> looks to me.

>
>Yup! that is how it works.


Well, the jaws are notched or serrated or whatever you want to call
it. That allows the jaws to grip the pipe.

A monkey wrench has a long handle, so leverage adds to the function.
The slip jaws allow the jaws to be re-placed over the pipe without
adjustment or tightening, and reversing the motion allows them to
loosen easily.

The pipe pliers Jonas linked to are called "Lockjaws" or "Locking
Pliers" here, but I've never personally seen a pair that large.
Smaller ones are pretty standard in our workshops. I think mine are
8".

I imagine the market has decreased for monkey wrenches since lead pipe
is seldom used anymore, and most pipe joints are glued instead of
connected by screw threads. Still, I have one that gets use for
various tasks.

>>> As Tony said, you are more likely to hear "pipe wrench used here
>>> today, though most people will usually know what a "monkey wrench
>>> is, and use the term interchangeably with "pipe wrench". <
>>> http://www.irwin.com/tools/pipe-wren...ng-pipe-wrench
>>>>

>>
>>

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
 
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Tony Cooper
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-25-2014
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 18:16:39 -0500, "J. Clarke"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>In article <2014012515050550148-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
>savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com says...
>>
>> On 2014-01-25 22:10:51 +0000, Sandman <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>>
>> > In article <201401241013182418-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>, Savageduck wrote:
>> >
>> >>>> The Crescent would get the "monkey wrench" appellation due to
>> >>>> similarity of function to the original, while the Stillson would
>> >>>> get it due to similarity of appearance.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sandman:
>> >>> I'm not arguing with that, but I fail to see the similarities
>> >>> between the Stillson and a monkey, but I suppose I'm just missing
>> >>> something obvious
>> >>
>> >> Daniel Chapman Stillson was the inventor/designer of that particular
>> >> "pipe wrench". <
>> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Chapman_Stillson >
>> >
>> > That... still doesn't explain this supposed "smiliarity of appearance"
>> > between a stillson and a monkey

>>
>> It has nothing to do with appearance. It has to do with word & worker
>> associations and the age it came into being. There are several pieces
>> of word origin mythology some of which are not factual and some which
>> are conjecture.
>> The myth not supported by fact is the idea that "monkey wrench" was
>> derived as a play on words using the name of a supposed inventor of the
>> tool, one "Charles Moncky" as a source. However, this has been proven
>> to be fabricated myth as there is no patent record as there is for
>> Daniel Stillson & Loring Coes.
>>
>> A more likely origin lies in 19th century slang usage of the word
>> "monkey" and how it was applied to workers doing repetitive work seen
>> as beneath the more privileged. Among those workers would be boiler and
>> sewerage workers, and plumbers all trades seen as inferior by
>> "gentlemen" employing only "monkeys". In those days a pipe wrench would
>> be conspicuous in its use by any of those tradesmen, hence a wrench
>> used by "monkeys". There would never be a need for a "gentleman" to
>> know what any tool was properly named.
>> The term "monkey" for those engaged in trades supporting the lifestyles
>> of the rich and famous evolved in the 20th century when an auto
>> mechanic was called a "grease monkey".
>>
>> >>> Sandman:
>> >>> While I'm sure it's used here in Sweden, I think a more common
>> >>> wrench is what we call Rrtng, or "pipe pliers", which look
>> >>> like this:
>> >>
>> >>> http://tinyurl.com/npmrq4d
>> >>
>> >>> As you can see, it has a similar funciton to what you call monkey
>> >>> wrench.
>> >>
>> >> Yup! Same tool, different name, in a different country, speaking a
>> >> different language.
>> >
>> > But the tool doesn't look identical. The "pipe pliers" use a screw to
>> > adjust the head, then you pinch the handles (hence "pliers") to tighten the
>> > grip around the pipe.

>>
>> Perhaps I should have said "similar" tool made for a similar purpose,
>> rather than same tool.
>>
>> > The monkey wrench seems to be just a sort of adjustable wrench, where the
>> > grib around a pipe comes from the slanted jaws, or at least that's how it
>> > looks to me.

>>
>> Yup! that is how it works.
>>
>> >> As Tony said, you are more likely to hear "pipe wrench used here
>> >> today, though most people will usually know what a "monkey wrench
>> >> is, and use the term interchangeably with "pipe wrench". <
>> >> http://www.irwin.com/tools/pipe-wren...ng-pipe-wrench
>> >>>
>> >
>> >

>
>I think that I am guilty of not making myself clear. The wrench that
>(IMO) bears a resemblance to a monkey is this one
><http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Monkey_wrench_derivative_from_Rogers_1903_p172.png >
>
>I did not mean to imply that the Stillson resembles a monkey. My intent
>was that due it its jaw moving roughly parallel to the handle and being
>adjusted with a screw roughly parallel to the handle, it was similar in
>layout to the one that looks like a monkey and so was associated with
>it.
>

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
 
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