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Re: Adobe - Photoshop and their "Subscriptions"

 
 
peternew
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      06-15-2013
On 6/15/2013 2:18 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Tony Cooper
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>> But If anyone supcribes to whatever CS verions they'll have, if a
>>>>>>>>> person decides to stick with that version and NOT upgrade to
>>>>>>>>> the lastest OS and adopbe decide to support only current OS's
>>>>>>>>> does that mean they'll remove my old CS from my computer
>>>>>>>>> because they don;t want to support it but will continue to charge
>>>>>>>>> me a subscription to adobe software what I can't use.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> nothing is removed from your computer, however, you will need to pay
>>>>>>>> to keep it active.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> .........
>>>>>>>> Until Adobe decides to discontinue support.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is "wrong" about Peter's statement?
>>>>>
>>>>> the discussion was about adobe removing software. i said that won't
>>>>> happen, then peter said it will happen when adobe discontinues support.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> that's completely wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> subscription based software will stop working when the user stops
>>>>> paying. no surprise there. however, it won't be deleted, nor will
>>>>> anything else on the computer.
>>>>>
>>>>> where do people come up with these crazy ideas anyway?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you just automatically write "wrong" when replying to anything?
>>>>>
>>>>> only when it's wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Nothing was "wrong" in what Peter said, and that's what you replied
>>>> to.
>>>
>>> it was completely wrong.
>>>
>>>>>>> support has absolutely nothing to do with it. the software is *never*
>>>>>>> removed from a computer unless the user explicitly deletes it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's no mention of removing software by Peter.
>>>>>
>>>>> there was by whisky dave, which began the sub-thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> try to keep up.
>>>>
>>>> Why, then, write "wrong" in reply to Peter's post in which he said
>>>> *nothing* about software removal? Talk about not keeping up.
>>>
>>> the discussion was about software removal. i said it won't be removed,
>>> then peter said 'until they discontinue support'.

>>
>> It's a bit chancy to outright lie when the message is still there. It
>> was written that "older software...is not affected in any way" and
>> Peter replied "Until Adobe decides to discontinue support".
>>
>> It's right there above. You can read it. Peter didn't mention
>> software removal.

>
> whisky dave mentioned removal, and i was replying to him when peter
> butted in.
>
> once again:
>>>>>>>>> does that mean they'll remove my old CS from my
>>>>>>>>> computer because they don;t want to support it

>
> i said they won't remove support, they'll just deactivate subscription
> based software, while earlier software is unaffected whether you
> continue to pay the subscription fees or not.
>
> this is 100% correct, no matter how hard you try to claim otherwise.
>
>> You made a mistake. Just admit it.

>
> i'm not the one who made a mistake. you did, and are going to great
> lengths to avoid admitting your mistake. you also completely failed at
> reading comprehension.
>
>> I love the way you attempt to control the discussion and dictate about
>> what it's about, and then you veer off the area that *you* insist is
>> the subject and rattle on about source code. (I'll cut that nonsense
>> because this discussion - according to you - is only about the removal
>> of subscription Adobe products.)

>
> i'm not attempting to control anything. whisky dave asked a question
> and i replied to it.
>
>> Further, the original post creating this thread, by Gamer, said
>> nothing at all about "software removal". It was a rambling diatribe
>> about Adobe's "Gestapo" tactics and bitching about not being able to
>> upgrade from CS3.

>
> doesn't matter what the original post was.
>
> whisky dave asked a question and i answered.
>
>> The "discussion" has progressed from there touching on several
>> different but related subjects including deviation from the original
>> post's subject by you. There is no single "the discussion was about".

>
> yes there is. when someone asks a question and another person answers
> it, it's about that particular question.
>
>> You don't seem to understand that a usenet discussion goes wherever
>> the participants want it to go. Peter chose to mention the possible
>> discontinuance of support. He can do that. You are not in control.

>
> you don't seem to understand how usenet works.
>
> you see, when someone asks a question, one or more people may answer
> it. whisky dave asked a question and i replied.
>
> i'm not controlling a thing. more lies from you.
>


I see. You reply, but anyone else, butts in. My apologies. I didn't
realize that I was not allowed to comment on an inaccurate statement.




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PeterN
 
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peternew
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      06-15-2013
On 6/14/2013 11:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <51bbbfae$0$8368$(E-Mail Removed)-secrets.com>,
> http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) says...
>>
>> On 6/14/2013 8:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, tonycooper214
>>> @gmail.com says...
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 18:55:46 -0400, nospam <(E-Mail Removed)>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <51bb9a42$0$8368$(E-Mail Removed)-secrets.com>, peternew
>>>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> But If anyone supcribes to whatever CS verions they'll have, if a person
>>>>>>> decides to stick with that version and NOT upgrade to the lastest OS and
>>>>>>> adopbe decide to support only current OS's does that mean they'll remove my
>>>>>>> old CS from my computer because they don;t want to support it but will
>>>>>>> continue to charge me a subscription to adobe software what I can't use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> nothing is removed from your computer, however, you will need to pay to
>>>>>> keep it active.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way.
>>>>>
>>>>> .........
>>>>>> Until Adobe decides to discontinue support.
>>>>>
>>>>> wrong.
>>>>
>>>> What is "wrong" about Peter's statement?
>>>>
>>>> Do you just automatically write "wrong" when replying to anything?
>>>
>>> No, he's saying that the statment that Adobe discontinuing support will
>>> not affect older software in any way. Novell has long since
>>> discontinued support on Netware 2.0. It still runs fine if you have
>>> hardware old enough that it is supported by the included drivers. IBM
>>> long ago dropped support on OS/2. My PS/2 Model 77 still runs fine.
>>> Microsoft long since dropped support on Windows 2000. My old Thinkpad
>>> still boots up any time I want to play with it.
>>>

>>
>> Of course if yu continue the same use, and still continue to use a
>> camera format that is currently supported the software will still run.
>> But, once you start exchanging files, getting a different camera, with a
>> different format, or simply get a new machine, you may very well have
>> issues with the software.
>> Yes, I have an old Toshiba laptop, that runs fine under Windows2, but it
>> isn't really very useful, from a practical standpoint. It has no
>> Internet access, only a parallel and serial port, plus a floppy drive. I
>> suppose i could cobble something to make the machine somewhat
>> functional, but I would rather play with photographs.

>
> So you're expecting CS6 to continue to get fancy new features and
> support for new

Absolutely not.

> cameras in perpetuity without your ever having to pay
> any more money? Adobe has _never_ worked that way. The old sofware
> continues to do everything that it did before support was dropped and
> support never included feature updates or drivers for new hardware, so
> you're demanding that Adobe change their support policy now.
>


Not at all. But when I get a new camera, I will have ot make the
decision to either lease PS or find alternatives. I bought CS6, because
I wanted some of the new features. I have the alternative of using
another program for my new camera conversions.
my point was that nospam was wrong when he said that the changeover has
no effect on existing software. The changeover to leasing narrows my
choices of upgrade choices.

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PeterN
 
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peternew
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      06-15-2013
On 6/15/2013 12:01 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <51bbc1ad$0$8312$(E-Mail Removed)-secrets.com>,
> (E-Mail Removed) says...
>>
>> On 6/14/2013 9:01 PM, nospam wrote:
>>> In article <51bbba5c$0$8313$(E-Mail Removed)-secrets.com>,
>>> peternew <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You have a knee jerk reaction. Your statement, in plain English "
>>>> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way." That
>>>> is one complete sentence. had you meant what you now say you meant,
>>>> you wold have me a complete statement like: 'older software (cs6
>>>> and earlier) will not be deactivated, or removed from your
>>>> computer.' If that was what you meant, you certainly did not say
>>>> it.
>>>
>>> the discussion was about software removal by someone other than the
>>> user.

>>
>> Your quoted sentence did not say that.
>>
>>>
>>> regardless, older software is unaffected by anything adobe or anyone
>>> else could do, removal or otherwise. it's fully paid for and
>>> continues to work as it always has.
>>>
>>>> If a publisher discontinues support, the usability of that software
>>>> will be very much affected.
>>>
>>> wrong again. it continues to work exactly the same as it always has.
>>>
>>> if they stop supporting it, there won't be any tech support, bug
>>> fixes or feature updates and compatibility with future hardware or
>>> operating systems. that's all. it won't suddenly stop working when
>>> adobe decides to stop supporting it.

>>
>> You have just described the effect on usability.

>
> But "support" has never included feature updates or compatibility with
> future hardware or operating systems, not from Adobe anyway. If their
> old version doesn't work with your hardware or operating system the
> solution is for you to buy a new version, not get a free update from
> "support".


I recently got a free upgrade from Adobe that included "support" for
additional camera formats. the term "support" in the software industry
has been expanded to include the concept of compatibility.






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peternew
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      06-15-2013
On 6/14/2013 10:09 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> On 2013-06-14 17:50:35 -0700, peternew <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>
>>
>> If a publisher discontinues support, the usability of that software
>> will be very much affected.

>
> Not really. Not everybody chases the latest, and greatest, or even needs
> that support.
> The usability of software with discontinued support remains as usable as
> it always was. I know of individuals happily pottering away with PS7.
> I also know of some individuals using old PPC Macs with the long dead,
> unsupported Mac version of Word Perfect. Those folks find that
> unsupported software quite usable.
>

That is limited to those who do not need the support. If you want to use
WordPerfect X for indexing, and don't know how, you need to lean how. As
versions get older, the knowledge base of folks who can help, gets
smaller. How many know how to use Electric Pencil?


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PeterN
 
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nospam
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      06-15-2013
In article <51bc5d4f$0$8290$(E-Mail Removed)-secrets.com>, peternew
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> >>>> You have a knee jerk reaction. Your statement, in plain English "
> >>>> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way." That
> >>>> is one complete sentence. had you meant what you now say you meant,
> >>>> you wold have me a complete statement like: 'older software (cs6
> >>>> and earlier) will not be deactivated, or removed from your
> >>>> computer.' If that was what you meant, you certainly did not say
> >>>> it.
> >>>
> >>> the discussion was about software removal by someone other than the
> >>> user.
> >>
> >> Your quoted sentence did not say that.

> >
> > the post to which i replied was about removal. this entire subthread is
> > about removal.

>
> Our statement, written in clear English was incorrect, as shown earlier.


'our statement' ??

it looks like it's you who needs to write clear english.

furthermore, nothing i said was incorrect. only your interpretation was.

> >>> nothing stops anyone from keeping an older computer around to run
> >>> older software.
> >>
> >> Your quoted sentence, to which I responded, said something other than
> >> what you ar saying now.

> >
> > not in the least. you misunderstood and are trying to blame it on
> > others.
> >

> Sorry. I forgot you rarely say what you mean!


i always say what i mean.

you, however, have a problem understanding basic english as well as not
admitting your mistakes.
 
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nospam
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      06-15-2013
In article <51bc5eec$0$8343$(E-Mail Removed)-secrets.com>, peternew
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> > which means if a vendor discontinues support, it won't matter.

>
> If you don't includes patches and compatibility upgrades as part of support.


that only matters if you change the hardware or operating system.

if you don't, it keeps on working the same as it always has.

if you do, then you have to consider if it will affect older software.
it might not matter at all.
 
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nospam
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      06-15-2013
In article <51bc6057$0$8298$(E-Mail Removed)-secrets.com>, peternew
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> >>>>>>> But If anyone supcribes to whatever CS verions they'll have, if a
> >>>>>>> person
> >>>>>>> decides to stick with that version and NOT upgrade to the lastest OS
> >>>>>>> and adopbe decide to support only current OS's does that mean they'll
> >>>>>>> remove my old CS from my computer because they don;t want to support
> >>>>>>> it but will continue to charge me a subscription to adobe software
> >>>>>>> what I
> >>>>>>> can't use.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> nothing is removed from your computer, however, you will need to pay to
> >>>>>> keep it active.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> .........
> >>>>>> Until Adobe decides to discontinue support.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> wrong.
> >>>>
> >>>> What is "wrong" about Peter's statement?
> >>>
> >>> the discussion was about adobe removing software. i said that won't
> >>> happen, then peter said it will happen when adobe discontinues support.

>
> That is not the statement to which I responded. I responded to a
> specific sentence, and explained why. Your quoting is disgustingly
> selective.


then you responded to a specific sentence that you took out of context.

i replied to a question about software removal. the topic was always
about software removal.

in other words, you misunderstood what was being discussed and are
avoiding admitting your error.
 
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nospam
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      06-15-2013
In article <51bc6b08$0$8302$(E-Mail Removed)-secrets.com>, peternew
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> > cameras in perpetuity without your ever having to pay
> > any more money? Adobe has _never_ worked that way. The old sofware
> > continues to do everything that it did before support was dropped and
> > support never included feature updates or drivers for new hardware, so
> > you're demanding that Adobe change their support policy now.
> >

>
> Not at all. But when I get a new camera, I will have ot make the
> decision to either lease PS or find alternatives.


that depends whether adobe adds support for the camera to cs6.

so far, they've shown that they *are* continuing to add camera support
to cs6.

they just released camera raw 8.1, when cs6 had been using camera raw
7.x. you get additional camera support but no new features. the
additional features in camera raw 8 require creative cloud. all you get
with cs6 is the new camera support.

given that, it's reasonable to expect that they will continue adding
camera support to cs6, especially since they said they are continuing
to support it with bug fixes, compatibility upgrades etc.

> I bought CS6, because
> I wanted some of the new features. I have the alternative of using
> another program for my new camera conversions.


you always had alternatives, from adobe and others.

> my point was that nospam was wrong when he said that the changeover has
> no effect on existing software. The changeover to leasing narrows my
> choices of upgrade choices.


i wasn't talking about the changeover at all.

that's entirely a fabrication on your part because you can't admit you
misunderstood what i said.

i was *specifically* talking about software removal without the user's
consent because that was what whisky dave asked.
 
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nospam
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      06-15-2013
In article <51bc618c$0$8377$(E-Mail Removed)-secrets.com>, peternew
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> >
> >> The "discussion" has progressed from there touching on several
> >> different but related subjects including deviation from the original
> >> post's subject by you. There is no single "the discussion was about".

> >
> > yes there is. when someone asks a question and another person answers
> > it, it's about that particular question.
> >
> >> You don't seem to understand that a usenet discussion goes wherever
> >> the participants want it to go. Peter chose to mention the possible
> >> discontinuance of support. He can do that. You are not in control.

> >
> > you don't seem to understand how usenet works.
> >
> > you see, when someone asks a question, one or more people may answer
> > it. whisky dave asked a question and i replied.
> >
> > i'm not controlling a thing. more lies from you.

>
> I see. You reply, but anyone else, butts in. My apologies. I didn't
> realize that I was not allowed to comment on an inaccurate statement.


first of all, nothing i said was inaccurate.

second, when one person asks a question and another person answers it
and then a third person misinterprets and makes an erroneous statement
based on that misunderstanding and then refuses to admit his mistake, i
consider that butting in.
 
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nospam
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      06-15-2013
In article <51bc6f34$0$8357$(E-Mail Removed)-secrets.com>, peternew
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> >> If a publisher discontinues support, the usability of that software
> >> will be very much affected.

> >
> > Not really. Not everybody chases the latest, and greatest, or even needs
> > that support.
> > The usability of software with discontinued support remains as usable as
> > it always was. I know of individuals happily pottering away with PS7.
> > I also know of some individuals using old PPC Macs with the long dead,
> > unsupported Mac version of Word Perfect. Those folks find that
> > unsupported software quite usable.
> >

> That is limited to those who do not need the support. If you want to use
> WordPerfect X for indexing, and don't know how, you need to lean how.


did the user manual it came with suddenly disintegrate?

or just buy a book or ask online.

> As
> versions get older, the knowledge base of folks who can help, gets
> smaller.


so what?

by the time support is discontinued, you probably know how to use it
already.

new users aren't going to start out with decade old software.

> How many know how to use Electric Pencil?


who cares. that's ancient and if you haven't figured out how to use it
by now, then nothing is going to help you.
 
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