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Buying Adobe Elements?

 
 
nospam
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      05-16-2013
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Tony Cooper
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> >> >>> anyway, installers are not apps, and the only thing i've seen in
> >> >>> installers are about other products from the same company. that's
> >> >>> hardly an ad.
> >> >>
> >> >> Installers are not apps?
> >> >
> >> > they might be packaged as an app to make it easy for the user, but
> >> > they're not what people think of as apps. many times it's just a
> >> > script. they're run once and they're discarded. the actual app is the
> >> > payload of the installer.
> >>
> >> Well then when you make a blanket statement you should specify, in the
> >> interests of clarity. Oh I forgot, you have your own definitions.

> >
> >it's not my definition and i don't need to spell it out because it's
> >obvious.
> >
> >people do not consider an installer an app, even if technically might
> >be an app in some cases (not all). it's what they use to install apps.

>
> Who are these "people"? The ghosts that support your market research
> theories? The dead who tell you they'd be using digital instead of
> darkroom?


normal everyday people.

and where did you get this thing about ghosts or dead people?

> I do like this theory, though. It's not an app even if it is
> technically an app.


the *app* is what matters, not the installer. the installer is just the
mechanism to get the app on your hard drive.

as i said before, it might be an app but it is often not.
 
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nospam
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      05-16-2013
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Tony Cooper
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I just received an email from Adobe linking to their "Inspire" online
> magazine. The page clearly states:
>
> "This is an advertising message from Adobe Systems Incorporated, its
> affiliates and agents ("Adobe"), 345 Park Avenue, San Jose, CA 95110
> USA. If you'd prefer not to receive email like this from Adobe in the
> future, please unsubscribe."
>
> I assume I'm on their mailing list because I purchased and registered
> Adobe products.
>
> While the advertisement is not *in* the software I purchased, it is a
> *result* of the software I purchased. We will have to have a ruling
> from nospam, who is an expert in all forms of marketing and market
> research, on whether this "advertisement" is an "advertisement" or
> something else...like an "advertisement" and that Adobe does not
> advertise when they advertise in their advertisements.


you're on a mailing list and you can opt out. no big deal.

contrast this to a free app that has ads. you can't opt out of them
other than buying the paid version without ads.

again, this isn't relevant. creative cloud is paid.
 
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nospam
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      05-16-2013
In article <51942539$0$10766$(E-Mail Removed)-secrets.com>, PeterN
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> >>>> Telling people about other products the company offers is not an ad.
> >>>
> >>> it's filler while you wait for the install to complete. people don't
> >>> stare at the installer which means it's not a very effective place to
> >>> put ads. plus it would only be seen once. once the install is done,
> >>> they won't be running the installer anymore.
> >>
> >> That my friend is advertising. A non-commercial filler would be s
> >> soothing voice telling me, in sweet sexy tones what a good job I was doing.

> >
> > call it an ad if you want. it's still in the *installer*, not the app.
> > it shows up only during install and it's gone, forever.
> >
> > this is very, very different than a company pushing ads to paid
> > customers when using their apps, which is the original topic, no matter
> > how much you try to change it.
> >

> I didn't know you were astute enough to predict what a company will do
> in the future. I certainly am not. However Adbe certainly will have that
> capability.


just because they have the capability does not mean they will use it.

> BTW the original topic is stated in the subject line, no matter how much
> you would like it to be otherwise.


this particular topic began when rich a. said adobe would soon be
pushing ads to creative cloud customers. i replied that was a crazy
idea, which it clearly is to anyone with even the slightest bit of
common sense.

people are now trying to twist it into something else, saying there are
ads in installers, ads in email, ads in free software, etc.

none of that is relevant.

creative cloud is a paid service and it is *not* going to have ads. the
moment adobe even hints at ads, their customers will rebel, and hard
(and rightly so).

> > adobe isn't going to do that. the outcry would make creative cloud look
> > like nothing.

>
> Good to see that your crystal ball is working.


no need for one. it's common sense.

> >>> in the actual app, there are no ads.
> >>>
> >>> since you have difficulty staying on topic, this is about adobe pushing
> >>> ads to their subscribers. they've *already* installed the apps.
> >>>
> >>
> >> You complaining about me not staying on topic is at best, laughable.

> >
> > you're the one who is moving the goalposts and nitpicking on
> > meaningless details. all you like to do is argue.
> >

> I do not argue. I am simply pointing out your asinine, misstatements.
> It's so easy to do, that it's definitely not arguing.


you are nitpicking and focusing on irrelevant details for no apparent
reason but to argue.
 
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Tony Cooper
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      05-16-2013
On Wed, 15 May 2013 23:41:00 -0400, nospam <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>> >people do not consider an installer an app, even if technically might
>> >be an app in some cases (not all). it's what they use to install apps.

>>
>> Who are these "people"? The ghosts that support your market research
>> theories? The dead who tell you they'd be using digital instead of
>> darkroom?

>
>normal everyday people.
>
>and where did you get this thing about ghosts or dead people?
>
>> I do like this theory, though. It's not an app even if it is
>> technically an app.

>
>the *app* is what matters, not the installer. the installer is just the
>mechanism to get the app on your hard drive.
>
>as i said before, it might be an app but it is often not.


I gotcha. It may be an app but it is often not an app. How would you
like that "twisted" so it makes sense? I'll be glad to help.

Couldn't we just say "It's an app unless it's not an app in which case
it's an app that isn't an app unless it isn't an app that is an app"?

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
 
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nospam
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-16-2013
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Tony Cooper
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> >> >people do not consider an installer an app, even if technically might
> >> >be an app in some cases (not all). it's what they use to install apps.
> >>
> >> Who are these "people"? The ghosts that support your market research
> >> theories? The dead who tell you they'd be using digital instead of
> >> darkroom?

> >
> >normal everyday people.
> >
> >and where did you get this thing about ghosts or dead people?
> >
> >> I do like this theory, though. It's not an app even if it is
> >> technically an app.

> >
> >the *app* is what matters, not the installer. the installer is just the
> >mechanism to get the app on your hard drive.
> >
> >as i said before, it might be an app but it is often not.

>
> I gotcha. It may be an app but it is often not an app. How would you
> like that "twisted" so it makes sense? I'll be glad to help.


you can start by reading what i wrote about installers that are not
apps. in some cases, they're *text* *files*.

you're once again in over your head.

> Couldn't we just say "It's an app unless it's not an app in which case
> it's an app that isn't an app unless it isn't an app that is an app"?


no.
 
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Sandman
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-16-2013
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Tony Cooper <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> >anyway, installers are not apps, and the only thing i've seen in
> >installers are about other products from the same company. that's
> >hardly an ad.

>
> Why is it any different? An advertisement is an advertisement,
> whether it's an advertisement for another product within the maker's
> family or for an outside product.


Surely the argument about ads in software is within the scope of
paid-for ads that generate income to the ad carrying party? Advertising
your own products and services to a client you already have a business
relationship with isn't really the same thing.

> Many installation programs include a pre-checked option to add an
> anti-virus program as an "opt out".


That would indeed be advertisement for an external product.

> That's no different from an advertisement; worse, even, since if we
> don't catch it we're adding something we may not want.


Indeed.

> What has to be advertised by a software provider to be considered as
> an advertisement in your little mind? Toothpaste? Nair?


Why the personal insult? In what way did you feel it lended credibility
to your viewpoint?

Any description of a product or a service with the intention of you
using or purchasing it is an advertisement, of course. So by definition,
own-app spots in installers are advertisements, but hardly the kind of
ads being discussed in this thread.


--
Sandman[.net]
 
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Whisky-dave
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-16-2013
On Wednesday, May 15, 2013 10:10:40 PM UTC+1, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 15 May 2013 08:59:08 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
>
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>
> >> Yes it does. Now what can we, as a group do to stimulate more interest..

>
> >

>
> >Make it esier to post and read, I hate the idea of having two+ windows open and having to type in one while viewing the other and if I want to see someone elses comments I have to go find their post too, and there's littleconnection if any between the comment page and the actual pictures.

>
> >I guess there's no way in teh current system where one can post commentsunder the actual picture. I've always found it intresting to compare comments and the actual photo at the same time. This is easy to do wityh flickr not sure about others.

>
> >

>
> >>

>
> >> Perhaps a short comment by the maker, on the image might get things

>
> >>

>
> >> going. I am not sure about the answer. I don't even know if there is an

>
> >>

>
> >> answer.

>
> >

>
> >well for me there is

>
>
>
> I use two monitors, and the total cost to me was less than $75.00.


I wouldn;t spend that much in order to comment on other peoples picures.


>
> (Used secondary monitor) I wouldn't have purchased it just for the
>
> SI, but find a two-monitor system beneficial in many ways. My primary
>
> use is following a tutorial on one screen and doing it on the second.


It's a good idea, I've just (yestereday a coincidence) connected a second monitor to this PC, but unfortunalty I haven;t enough space on my desk to have it close by, at the moment it's 2 metres to my left.
But it doesnt; solve teh problem if others arent; looking at the picture why reading my comments.


 
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PeterN
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      05-16-2013
On 5/15/2013 11:41 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Tony Cooper
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> anyway, installers are not apps, and the only thing i've seen in
>>>>>>> installers are about other products from the same company. that's
>>>>>>> hardly an ad.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Installers are not apps?
>>>>>
>>>>> they might be packaged as an app to make it easy for the user, but
>>>>> they're not what people think of as apps. many times it's just a
>>>>> script. they're run once and they're discarded. the actual app is the
>>>>> payload of the installer.
>>>>
>>>> Well then when you make a blanket statement you should specify, in the
>>>> interests of clarity. Oh I forgot, you have your own definitions.
>>>
>>> it's not my definition and i don't need to spell it out because it's
>>> obvious.
>>>
>>> people do not consider an installer an app, even if technically might
>>> be an app in some cases (not all). it's what they use to install apps.

>>
>> Who are these "people"? The ghosts that support your market research
>> theories? The dead who tell you they'd be using digital instead of
>> darkroom?

>
> normal everyday people.
>
> and where did you get this thing about ghosts or dead people?
>
>> I do like this theory, though. It's not an app even if it is
>> technically an app.

>
> the *app* is what matters, not the installer. the installer is just the
> mechanism to get the app on your hard drive.
>
> as i said before, it might be an app but it is often not.
>


When is an installer not an app?

--
PeterN
 
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PeterN
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      05-16-2013
On 5/16/2013 1:45 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Tony Cooper
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>>>> people do not consider an installer an app, even if technically might
>>>>> be an app in some cases (not all). it's what they use to install apps.
>>>>
>>>> Who are these "people"? The ghosts that support your market research
>>>> theories? The dead who tell you they'd be using digital instead of
>>>> darkroom?
>>>
>>> normal everyday people.
>>>
>>> and where did you get this thing about ghosts or dead people?
>>>
>>>> I do like this theory, though. It's not an app even if it is
>>>> technically an app.
>>>
>>> the *app* is what matters, not the installer. the installer is just the
>>> mechanism to get the app on your hard drive.
>>>
>>> as i said before, it might be an app but it is often not.

>>
>> I gotcha. It may be an app but it is often not an app. How would you
>> like that "twisted" so it makes sense? I'll be glad to help.

>
> you can start by reading what i wrote about installers that are not
> apps. in some cases, they're *text* *files*.
>


What program is not a text file, before it is compiled?



> you're once again in over your head.
>
>> Couldn't we just say "It's an app unless it's not an app in which case
>> it's an app that isn't an app unless it isn't an app that is an app"?

>
> no.
>



--
PeterN
 
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nospam
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      05-16-2013
In article <51953644$0$10775$(E-Mail Removed)-secrets.com>, PeterN
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> >> I do like this theory, though. It's not an app even if it is
> >> technically an app.

> >
> > the *app* is what matters, not the installer. the installer is just the
> > mechanism to get the app on your hard drive.
> >
> > as i said before, it might be an app but it is often not.

>
> When is an installer not an app?


i gave two examples. try reading before posting.
 
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