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lang and font size

 
 
emf
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      04-04-2013
In the css of the same webpage I referred to in the previous post,

https://files.nyu.edu/emf202/public/fr/limericks.html

I specify

font-family: "Lucida Sans Unicode", "Lucida Grande", sans-serif;

When, however, instead of

<html>

I specify:

<html lang="el">

the font is rendered different in size. I would think that in both cases
the font should appear exactly the same. What is going on?

In case it is significant. I am using Firefox 20.

Thanks,

emf

--
Canto General
A folk oratorio of Mikis Theodorakis
https://files.nyu.edu/emf202/public/mt/index.html
 
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Jukka K. Korpela
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      04-04-2013
2013-04-04 9:15, emf wrote:

> https://files.nyu.edu/emf202/public/fr/limericks.html
>
> I specify
>
> font-family: "Lucida Sans Unicode", "Lucida Grande", sans-serif;
>
> When, however, instead of
>
> <html>
>
> I specify:
>
> <html lang="el">
>
> the font is rendered different in size.


I cannot reproduce the issue on Firefox 19. Wait... it's now loading
version 20.0... still the same, the font is still 16px Lucida Sans Unicode.

The lang attribute is known to affect the default font family in many
browsers. But not font size, and only the *default* font family, and
here you have set the font family.

Now I note that in Firefor 20.0 settings (and probably in earlier
versions too), you can, in the advanced font settings, set both font
family and font size for different character repertoires. But now I get
very confused, since these settings do not seem to have any effect.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
 
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emf
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      04-05-2013
On 2013-04-04 03:40 Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> 2013-04-04 9:15, emf wrote:
>
>> https://files.nyu.edu/emf202/public/fr/limericks.html
>>
>> I specify
>>
>> font-family: "Lucida Sans Unicode", "Lucida Grande", sans-serif;
>>
>> When, however, instead of
>>
>> <html>
>>
>> I specify:
>>
>> <html lang="el">
>>
>> the font is rendered different in size.

>
> I cannot reproduce the issue on Firefox 19. Wait... it's now loading
> version 20.0... still the same, the font is still 16px Lucida Sans Unicode.
>
> The lang attribute is known to affect the default font family in many
> browsers. But not font size, and only the *default* font family, and
> here you have set the font family.
>
> Now I note that in Firefor 20.0 settings (and probably in earlier
> versions too), you can, in the advanced font settings, set both font
> family and font size for different character repertoires. But now I get
> very confused, since these settings do not seem to have any effect.


Hmmm... I had to be more careful with my observations. I had a look at
the top of the page, especially the title, and did not care to look
further. So now I have to correct what I wrote:

In the <p> the font renders the same in both cases.

The problem is with the <h1>, <h2>, and <h3> tags that are rendered
smaller; these I have specified as xx-large and medium. And it only
happens in FF, not in IE.

It may be some setting only in my browser, but since I am not sure, I
specified the font-size as 200% and 100%, and the problem was solved.

Thanks,

emf

--
It ain't THAT, babe! - A radical reinterpretation
https://files.nyu.edu/emf202/public/...intmebabe.html
 
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Jan Clemens Faerber
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      04-05-2013
On Friday, April 5, 2013 11:23:50 AM UTC+2, emf wrote:
> The problem is with the <h1>, <h2>, and <h3> tags that are rendered
> smaller;


I tried it with FF (19 and 20 ^^) and can't see any diffenrences.
Sometimes FF plays mad. e.g. ColorZilla can't be installed or on one machine it presents a page different than on five others.
 
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dorayme
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      04-05-2013
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Jan Clemens Faerber <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Friday, April 5, 2013 11:23:50 AM UTC+2, emf wrote:
> > The problem is with the <h1>, <h2>, and <h3> tags that are rendered
> > smaller;

>
> I tried it with FF (19 and 20 ^^) and can't see any diffenrences.


I tried it on a Mac FF19 with a simple ordinary English sentence in a
P, once with the OP's lang attribute in the HTML tag, and once
without. The one with the attribute caused the text to display
differently in respect to length of line and visible line height, so I
suspected larger font. This is as read from online. But after a few
refreshes, it ceased to make any of this difference. FF is a bit
buggy. I updated to FF20 and by then the difference was not showing.

--
dorayme
 
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emf
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      04-06-2013
On 2013-04-05 17:27 dorayme wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Jan Clemens Faerber <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> On Friday, April 5, 2013 11:23:50 AM UTC+2, emf wrote:
>>> The problem is with the <h1>, <h2>, and <h3> tags that are rendered
>>> smaller;

>>
>> I tried it with FF (19 and 20 ^^) and can't see any diffenrences.

>
> I tried it on a Mac FF19 with a simple ordinary English sentence in a
> P, once with the OP's lang attribute in the HTML tag, and once
> without. The one with the attribute caused the text to display
> differently in respect to length of line and visible line height, so I
> suspected larger font. This is as read from online. But after a few
> refreshes, it ceased to make any of this difference. FF is a bit
> buggy. I updated to FF20 and by then the difference was not showing.


I posted the issue in the Firefox newsgroup, providing 2 webpages with
identical code except for the lang:

https://files.nyu.edu/emf202/public/...ontSizeEL.html
https://files.nyu.edu/emf202/public/...ontSizeEN.html

and I got this reply:

> I was seeing a size shift unill I set the Min Size of Greek the same
> as Western. With both at 14 the resizing stopped.


I hadn't payed attention to the fact that I could specify different font
sizes for different languages (Options > Content > Fonts and Colors >
Advanced ) - it makes sense. In my case, I had chosen different sizes
for proportional fonts for Greek and Western.

Ths discrepancy was solved, however my conclusion still is that I should
prefer to use % font sizes in css in my Greek pages if I want all the
users to see the same webpage.

emf

--
It ain't THAT, babe! - A radical reinterpretation
https://files.nyu.edu/emf202/public/...intmebabe.html
 
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dorayme
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      04-06-2013
In article <kjnrvp$kbe$(E-Mail Removed)>, emf <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

> On 2013-04-05 17:27 dorayme wrote:
> > In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> > Jan Clemens Faerber <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> >> On Friday, April 5, 2013 11:23:50 AM UTC+2, emf wrote:
> >>> The problem is with the <h1>, <h2>, and <h3> tags that are rendered
> >>> smaller;
> >>
> >> I tried it with FF (19 and 20 ^^) and can't see any diffenrences.

> >
> > I tried it on a Mac FF19 with a simple ordinary English sentence in a
> > P, once with the OP's lang attribute in the HTML tag, and once
> > without. The one with the attribute caused the text to display
> > differently in respect to length of line and visible line height, so I
> > suspected larger font. This is as read from online. But after a few
> > refreshes, it ceased to make any of this difference. FF is a bit
> > buggy. I updated to FF20 and by then the difference was not showing.

>
> I posted the issue in the Firefox newsgroup, providing 2 webpages with
> identical code except for the lang:
>
> https://files.nyu.edu/emf202/public/...ontSizeEL.html
> https://files.nyu.edu/emf202/public/...ontSizeEN.html
>
> and I got this reply:
>
> > I was seeing a size shift unill I set the Min Size of Greek the same
> > as Western. With both at 14 the resizing stopped.

>
> I hadn't payed attention to the fact that I could specify different font
> sizes for different languages (Options > Content > Fonts and Colors >
> Advanced ) - it makes sense. In my case, I had chosen different sizes
> for proportional fonts for Greek and Western.
>
> Ths discrepancy was solved, however my conclusion still is that I should
> prefer to use % font sizes in css in my Greek pages if I want all the
> users to see the same webpage.



Of the two urls you posted, the "xx-small" differed in size, causing a
slight shift in the placing of the others, the latter characters on
each line being the same size text on both pages.

About wanting everyone to see the same page, they will, "same" is a
relative concept and not to be interpreted too narrowly in web design.

--
dorayme
 
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