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Re: Tale of the Laser - redux

 
 
Wolfgang Weisselberg
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-03-2013
Tony Cooper <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> You are engaging in what is called arguementum reductio ad absurdum:
> an argument that states that a position is true using a false, or
> absurd, conclusion.


| a common form of argument which seeks to demonstrate that
| a statement is true by showing that a false, untenable,
| or absurd result follows from its denial,[1] or in turn
| to demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that
| a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its
| acceptance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

It seems you shortened your explanation of that common
technique so much that it has become utter nonsense.

-Wolfgang
 
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Robert Coe
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2013
On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 14:33:51 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: Robert Coe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: > On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 02:35:18 +0100, "Charles E. Hardwidge"
:
: >: Transgender people have been around since whenever and not even the British
: >: Empire could stamp them out in India.
:
: > The situation of eunuchs in India is so radically different that the
: > comparison is ludicrous.
:
: You think Eunuchs == Transgender and Transgender == Eunuchs?
: Really?
:
:
: >: Transgenderism is a recognised medical condition and includes but is not
: >: limited to a range of intersex conditions.
:
: > Whatever that means.
:
: ICD-10 F64
:
:
: >: Not only does Coe show a cavalier disregard for someone's human rights and
: >: no knowledge of their condition but is also discourteous
:
: > "Discourteous" to a convicted murderer?? Surely you jest.
:
: If you truly believe convicted persons are subhuman and you
: need to denigrate yourself by being uncivilised towards them,
: you're right. (I'll let your theologican explain to you how
: your religion sees such a thing.)
:
:
: >: by going out of his way to misgender her.
:
: > Him. Whatever a person's mental persuasion regarding his/her sexuality,
: > his/her sex is what it is for genetic reasons. A "sex change" operation (which
: > he hasn't even had) doesn't affect that.
:
: sex != gender.
: And sex != sexuality (an obvious one is sex: male,
: sexuality: prefers males)
:
: Read closely: "misgender", not "missex".
:
: Oh, it may be that your definitions of gender and sex don't
: match the dictionary.

"Gender" is a linguistic, not biological, term. (It explains, more or less,
why it's "die Frau" but "das M?dchen" and "das Fr?ulein".) The meaning the
word seems to have appropriated in present-day American English reflects only
our prudishness and reverence for euphemisms.

Bob
 
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Charles E. Hardwidge
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2013
"Tony Cooper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...

> My position is clearly stated in the second paragraph above: Bob is
> not guilty of bigotry based on his post.


Like the racists weren't guilty of bigotry because they denied slaves their
human rights due to perceived fiscal disincentives? Coe is now compounding
his bigotry with biological essentialism and deciding he's an expert on
gender with wild claims of denial.

Dude. Second wave feminism is old hat. TERFs (Transgender Exclusionist
Radical Feminists) are a laughing stock with most of the mainstream third
wave feminist movement and the emerging fourth wave feminists are actively
embracing transgender people.

What do we have here? A gang of old white men clinging to their out of date
views as tightly as they're clinging to their SLRs. Meanwhile, the other 50%
of the economy is gaining steam with their camera equipped smartphones, and
Instgram and Twitter and embracing the future.

Personally, I believe this is more an issue of information and participation
than useless arguing and namecalling. I know and have met transgender people
including a transgender woman who is indistinguishable from a cisgender
housewife and a blokey bloke you would share a beer with. They are people
just like you trying to live their lives. Just like you.

Like transgender people M4/3 is the new kid on the block. It's not a blokes
toy nor a cute handbag camera. It's somewhere in between. Many people have
embraced M4/3 as the future and I see no reason why transgender people
should be treated more poorly than an electronic brick. Read Whipping Girl
by Juliana Serano. Go meet people. Let them find their niche.

--
Charles E. Hardwidge

 
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Tony Cooper
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2013
On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 05:20:53 +0100, "Charles E. Hardwidge"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>"Tony Cooper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news(E-Mail Removed).. .
>
>> My position is clearly stated in the second paragraph above: Bob is
>> not guilty of bigotry based on his post.

>
>Like the racists weren't guilty of bigotry because they denied slaves their
>human rights due to perceived fiscal disincentives? Coe is now compounding
>his bigotry with biological essentialism and deciding he's an expert on
>gender with wild claims of denial.
>
>Dude. Second wave feminism is old hat. TERFs (Transgender Exclusionist
>Radical Feminists) are a laughing stock with most of the mainstream third
>wave feminist movement and the emerging fourth wave feminists are actively
>embracing transgender people.
>
>What do we have here? A gang of old white men clinging to their out of date
>views as tightly as they're clinging to their SLRs. Meanwhile, the other 50%
>of the economy is gaining steam with their camera equipped smartphones, and
>Instgram and Twitter and embracing the future.
>
>Personally, I believe this is more an issue of information and participation
>than useless arguing and namecalling. I know and have met transgender people
>including a transgender woman who is indistinguishable from a cisgender
>housewife and a blokey bloke you would share a beer with. They are people
>just like you trying to live their lives.


How many of them went through the process whilst incarcerated for
murder and had the procedures paid for by the state?

The issue here is not the needs or desires of the individuals, but the
request to have the state pay for the process.

>Just like you.


I don't think so. An individual convicted of murder by strangulation
is no "just like" me.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
 
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Charles E. Hardwidge
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2013

"Tony Cooper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 05:20:53 +0100, "Charles E. Hardwidge"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>"Tony Cooper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news(E-Mail Removed). ..
>>
>>> My position is clearly stated in the second paragraph above: Bob is
>>> not guilty of bigotry based on his post.

>>
>>Like the racists weren't guilty of bigotry because they denied slaves
>>their human rights due to perceived fiscal disincentives? Coe is now
>>compounding his bigotry with biological essentialism and deciding he's an
>>expert on gender with wild claims of denial.
>>
>>Dude. Second wave feminism is old hat. TERFs (Transgender Exclusionist
>>Radical Feminists) are a laughing stock with most of the mainstream third
>>wave feminist movement and the emerging fourth wave feminists are actively
>>embracing transgender people.
>>
>>What do we have here? A gang of old white men clinging to their out of
>>date views as tightly as they're clinging to their SLRs. Meanwhile, the
>>other 50% of the economy is gaining steam with their camera equipped
>>smartphones, and Instgram and Twitter and embracing the future.
>>
>>Personally, I believe this is more an issue of information and
>>participation than useless arguing and namecalling. I know and have met
>>transgender people including a transgender woman who is indistinguishable
>>from a cisgender housewife and a blokey bloke you would share a beer with.
>>They are people just like you trying to live their lives.

>
> How many of them went through the process whilst incarcerated for
> murder and had the procedures paid for by the state?
>
> The issue here is not the needs or desires of the individuals, but the
> request to have the state pay for the process.
>
>>Just like you.

>
> I don't think so. An individual convicted of murder by strangulation
> is no "just like" me.


I'm not even going to pretend we're friends but I gave you a chance to step
beyond stupidity and explore some consensus. This, in spite of knowing
you're the type of person who keeps pushing until you get a kick in the
teeth.

Wellington said Napoleon was just a pounder. Tony, you're just a pounder.

And a bigot.

--
Charles E. Hardwidge

 
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Whisky-dave
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2013
On Thursday, April 4, 2013 11:14:25 AM UTC+1, Neil Ellwood wrote:
> O>
>
> >> "George Kerby" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

>
> >> news:CD806C2E.998F1%(E-Mail Removed)...

>
> >>> On 4/2/13 9:39 AM, in article kjeqek$lv1$(E-Mail Removed), "Charles E.

>
> >>> Hardwidge" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> >>>

>
> >>>> "Tony Cooper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

>
> >>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...

>
>
>
> >

>
> > How Loving you Limey Libtards are!

>
> >

>
> > Well, thank you for your well-wishing thoughts.

>
> >

>
> >

>
> >> Plenty of other people *do* care which is why Kate Bornstein was able

>
> >> to raise $100,000 in a less than week from wellwishers in the US and

>
> >> from around the world. I personally donated the entire amount from a

>
> >> surprise lottery win. Okay, it was peanuts but I was glad to do it.

>
> >

>
> > Well then, go get a room with him/her, it obvious that you want it.

>
> >

>
> > Maybe she/he will make some 'art' that you can buy, while you're at

>
> > it...

>
>
>
>
>
> I am English.
>
>
>
> Many English think that the genders can be muddled: I don't.


Which makes you wrong.


> People point
>
> to the fact that some animals also do . It is my opinion that we are (or
>
> should be) better than that.


What do you mean by better than animals we are animals, although your inteligence appears to be better matched to a vegatable.

I know a number of transgered people, even an intersexed person.

The 'condition' is quite well documented and recorded, but if you live in such a narrow enviroment then I guess yuo'll never understand.
I heard my dad say once that he;d never seen a black person until he saw one for the first time. I guess in some point in time some English people didn't know black peole existed or oriental people.


 
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Whisky-dave
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2013
On Thursday, April 4, 2013 2:38:11 PM UTC+1, George Kerby wrote:
> On 4/4/13 5:32 AM, in article
>
> http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed), "Whisky-dave"
>
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Thursday, April 4, 2013 11:14:25 AM UTC+1, Neil Ellwood wrote:

>
> >> O>

>
> >>

>
> >>>> "George Kerby" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

>
> >>

>
> >>>> news:CD806C2E.998F1%(E-Mail Removed)...

>
> >>

>
> >>>>> On 4/2/13 9:39 AM, in article kjeqek$lv1$(E-Mail Removed), "Charles E.

>
> >>

>
> >>>>> Hardwidge" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>> "Tony Cooper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...

>
> >>

>
> >>

>
> >>

>
> >>>

>
> >>

>
> >>> How Loving you Limey Libtards are!

>
> >>

>
> >>>

>
> >>

>
> >>> Well, thank you for your well-wishing thoughts.

>
> >>

>
> >>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>> Plenty of other people *do* care which is why Kate Bornstein was able

>
> >>

>
> >>>> to raise $100,000 in a less than week from wellwishers in the US and

>
> >>

>
> >>>> from around the world. I personally donated the entire amount from a

>
> >>

>
> >>>> surprise lottery win. Okay, it was peanuts but I was glad to do it.

>
> >>

>
> >>>

>
> >>

>
> >>> Well then, go get a room with him/her, it obvious that you want it.

>
> >>

>
> >>>

>
> >>

>
> >>> Maybe she/he will make some 'art' that you can buy, while you're at

>
> >>

>
> >>> it...

>
> >>

>
> >>

>
> >>

>
> >>

>
> >>

>
> >> I am English.

>
> >>

>
> >>

>
> >>

>
> >> Many English think that the genders can be muddled: I don't.

>
> >

>
> > Which makes you wrong.

>
> >

>
> >

>
> >> People point

>
> >>

>
> >> to the fact that some animals also do . It is my opinion that we are (or

>
> >>

>
> >> should be) better than that.

>
> >

>
> > What do you mean by better than animals we are animals, although your

>
> > inteligence appears to be better matched to a vegatable.

>
> >

>
> > I know a number of transgered people, even an intersexed person.

>
> >

>
> > The 'condition' is quite well documented and recorded, but if you live in such

>
> > a narrow enviroment then I guess yuo'll never understand.

>
> > I heard my dad say once that he;d never seen a black person until he saw one

>
> > for the first time. I guess in some point in time some English people didn't

>
> > know black peole existed or oriental people.

>
> >

>
> >

>
>
>
> Just curious: WTF is a "intersexed person"?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex.

The most vbasic are sometimes referred to as men wityh bvery small penis's and breasts, or large cliteroiuss and flat chested are typical physical things, but menatlly can be more confusing.

http://www.triffid.demon.co.uk/sexuality.html

although not updated recently I believe.

I've met her in a club and she doesn't like whisky, despite being scotish,
see how weird some people are




 
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Tony Cooper
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2013
On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 06:58:50 +0100, "Charles E. Hardwidge"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>>
>> The issue here is not the needs or desires of the individuals, but the
>> request to have the state pay for the process.
>>
>>>Just like you.

>>
>> I don't think so. An individual convicted of murder by strangulation
>> is no "just like" me.

>
>I'm not even going to pretend we're friends but I gave you a chance to step
>beyond stupidity and explore some consensus.


Consensus? What are you talking about? A "consensus" is an agreement
among multiple parties about an acceptable resolution. The issue in
this part of the thread is about one person's opinion about the
appropriateness of the state paying for an incarcerated person's
gender change.

I haven't looked back at all posts, but I don't recall anyone agreeing
or disagreeing with Bob's objection to this. I've said you have
incorrectly branded Bob as a bigot, but not commented one way or the
other on the appropriateness of the state paying for the procedures.
(But I will: I think it's wrong. If done, it should be paid for by
private funds raised by or for the subject.)

You can't have a consensus when there is an absence of multiple
parties seeking a resolution.

You seem to think that an objection to the state paying for the
procedures is somehow a rejection of transgenders. It's not. It's a
rejection of the way tax funds are applied.

>This, in spite of knowing
>you're the type of person who keeps pushing until you get a kick in the
>teeth.
>
>Wellington said Napoleon was just a pounder. Tony, you're just a pounder.


Interesting word. I hadn't come across that usage before. I had to
look it up. However, the remark was about military and tactical skills
on the part of Napoleon Bonaparte's leadership in directing his
brother Jerome Bonaparte to continue in attacking the center of the
Allied line. He kept pounding at that point instead of other, more
vulnerable, points.

And, yes, I keep pounding at the "Who should pay for this?" aspect.
That's the issue raised.

>And a bigot.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
 
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Charles E. Hardwidge
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2013

"Tony Cooper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...

> You seem to think that an objection to the state paying for the
> procedures is somehow a rejection of transgenders. It's not. It's a
> rejection of the way tax funds are applied.


Sorry, but I'm not going to waste my time any more with a wilfully blind
bigot who can't engage with let alone comprehend the issues.

--
Charles E. Hardwidge
 
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Whisky-dave
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2013
On Thursday, April 4, 2013 3:50:26 PM UTC+1, George Kerby wrote:
> On 4/4/13 8:50 AM, in article
>
> (E-Mail Removed), "Whisky-dave"
>
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Thursday, April 4, 2013 2:38:11 PM UTC+1, George Kerby wrote:

>
> >> On 4/4/13 5:32 AM, in article

>
> >>

>
> >> (E-Mail Removed), "Whisky-dave"

>
> >>

>
> >> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> >>

>
> >>

>
> >>

>
> >>> On Thursday, April 4, 2013 11:14:25 AM UTC+1, Neil Ellwood wrote:

>
> >>

>
> >>>> O>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>> "George Kerby" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>> news:CD806C2E.998F1%(E-Mail Removed)...

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>>> On 4/2/13 9:39 AM, in article kjeqek$lv1$(E-Mail Removed), "Charles E.

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>>> Hardwidge" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>>>> "Tony Cooper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>> How Loving you Limey Libtards are!

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>> Well, thank you for your well-wishing thoughts.

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>> Plenty of other people *do* care which is why Kate Bornstein was able

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>> to raise $100,000 in a less than week from wellwishers in the US and

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>> from around the world. I personally donated the entire amount from a

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>> surprise lottery win. Okay, it was peanuts but I was glad to do it.

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>> Well then, go get a room with him/her, it obvious that you want it.

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>> Maybe she/he will make some 'art' that you can buy, while you're at

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>> it...

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>> I am English.

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>> Many English think that the genders can be muddled: I don't.

>
> >>

>
> >>>

>
> >>

>
> >>> Which makes you wrong.

>
> >>

>
> >>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>> People point

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>> to the fact that some animals also do . It is my opinion that we are (or

>
> >>

>
> >>>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>> should be) better than that.

>
> >>

>
> >>>

>
> >>

>
> >>> What do you mean by better than animals we are animals, although your

>
> >>

>
> >>> inteligence appears to be better matched to a vegatable.

>
> >>

>
> >>>

>
> >>

>
> >>> I know a number of transgered people, even an intersexed person.

>
> >>

>
> >>>

>
> >>

>
> >>> The 'condition' is quite well documented and recorded, but if you live in

>
> >>> such

>
> >>

>
> >>> a narrow enviroment then I guess yuo'll never understand.

>
> >>

>
> >>> I heard my dad say once that he;d never seen a black person until he saw one

>
> >>

>
> >>> for the first time. I guess in some point in time some English people didn't

>
> >>

>
> >>> know black peole existed or oriental people.

>
> >>

>
> >>>

>
> >>

>
> >>>

>
> >>

>
> >>

>
> >>

>
> >> Just curious: WTF is a "intersexed person"?

>
> >

>
> >

>
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex.

>
> >

>
> > The most vbasic are sometimes referred to as men wityh bvery small penis's and

>
> > breasts, or large cliteroiuss and flat chested are typical physical things,

>
> > but menatlly can be more confusing.

>
> >

>
> > http://www.triffid.demon.co.uk/sexuality.html

>
> >

>
>
>
> I call those hemorphidites.


well they aren;t because medicaly they don;t have both 'genders'
i.e hemorphidites have both ba penis and a vagina, where as teh intersexed don't they have one set that hasn;t fully formed in teh way it would normally do.


>
>
>
> > although not updated recently I believe.

>
> >

>
> > I've met her in a club and she doesn't like whisky, despite being scotish,

>
> > see how weird some people are

>
> >

>
>
>
> Hell, I'm Scotch-Irish and I like rum.


we all have our own personal problems


 
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