«

On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 14:29:02 +0100, Wolfgang Weisselberg
<> wrote:

>Tony Cooper <> wrote:
>
>> The only real objection I have to the competitions is that submissions
>> are not required to be "fresh". So, instead of shooting to the
>> mandate, most members pull shots from their archives and the image
>> might have been taken several years ago.
>
>So you're basically saying you should have to re-shoot your
>own best shoots if you want them to participate?


This is about mandate shots, not necessarily the "best" shots in one's
archives. If you are going to participate in a competition with a
mandate, and all you are willing to put into it is a trawl through
your archives, I don't think you are entering into the spirit of
things. The mandate should encourage you to go out and find something
that fits.

If it was up to me, I'd announce the mandate three months in advance
and allow only photographs taken within that span. I'd also have
quarterly "Open" competitions where archive shots of any age would be
allowed. This would give the participants three months to find a
mandate submission for each of the eight "fresh" competitions and a
chance every three months to present their favorite archive shot.

Besides, what I think is my "best" shot of a (mandate) might be
bettered if I re-shoot the same scene.



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 10:06:40 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
<> wrote:

>On Monday, March 18, 2013 1:56:44 PM UTC, Savageduck wrote:
>> On 2013-03-18 06:38:15 -0700, Whisky-dave <> said:
>>
>>
>>
>> > The interesting thing about stupid camera judges is that they are only stup
>>
>> > id when they mis-judge your own work.
>>
>> > But I did find it interesting to hear their comments in a similar way I do
>>
>> > with to the shoot in here.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, where are your SI shots, so you can hear/read those comments with
>>
>> regard to your work?
>
>One day when I have the time and interest again I sort of lost interest in going to take photos for the sake of taking them around 1988, I sort of got bored and my computer and electronics, & computer hobbies took over.
>Personally I'd prefer the SI done a little differntly I find it annoying to have to go back and forth reading comments here and then going to the SI.
>That's one of the reasons I'd prefer flickr, I lke to see both things together and a list of comments that don't span across various posts.
>
I tend to agree with the problem of the comments being in several
posts or even threads. I'd like to see them in one thread, if nothing
else.

I solve the problem of switching back and forth between posts and the
PBase page by using two monitors. Two monitors are helpful in so many
different ways.


>Furniture now I do need to take a few pics of some furnature from my parents place as I was talking to someone about the old wardrobe with shrapnel damage from WWII, it's where I keep my electronics stuff.
>
>
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

On 3/17/2013 3:31 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 14:14:15 -0400, PeterN

>> <snip>
>>
>>>
>>> Camera clubs live in there own little world and stay in a rut.
>>
>> Not all. Just some of the judges. My club has 60 members. On competition
>> nights we average about 40. On other nights, attendance varies, but
>> rarely less than 30. We have filed trips every Sunday. about 15 to 20
>> show up. Some just come for breakfast, where we get into discussions.
>> About two weeks ago two of our members gave a presentation of shooting
>> butterflies. Today, we went to a butterfly exhibit. (Yes it was
>> indoors.) On my recent trip to FL, I was kept busy almost every day,
>> shooting with members oaf my club.
>
> A second club I belong to has about 40-50 members. I joined them
> yesterday for a field trip to a car show. I'll stop and take a shot
> or two at a car show, but I'm not a big fan. Too many people standing
> around the cars, the sun is never right for the shot I want, and I've
> never been able to get my circular polarizer to do its thing.
>
> I went for the social aspect. Eight of us had a meal together and
> chatted about photography. This smaller club is more social than the
> larger club I belong to, but the larger club also has field trips.
>
> Here's why I don't like car shows:
>
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64147677/2013-03-16-75.jpg

If you only take shots like that, I don't blame you. However, I am
surprised that you don't see a lot of good Street shots at a car show,
or any other street festival.

>
> All the people, the background, and the signs in the window of this
> Packard. I do shoot some close-up of bits and pieces of cars to avoid
> the problem. This one's a 1939 Ford:
>
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64147677/2013-03-16-88.jpg
>
>
Now that's more like it! That shot captures the essence of the car.
Nicely done.

--
PeterN

On 3/17/2013 10:08 PM, Trevor wrote:
> "Rob" <> wrote in message
> news:ki3hva$acq$...
>>>> Curious why you say they would NOT do well in a camera club? Just
>>>> wondering?
>>>
>>> Many judges would say: the hot spots are distracting; parts of the
>>> creatures are outside the image area, etc.
>>> Please note the above is not my impression, but is intended to be a
>>> commentary of the weaknesses of camera club judging. I have often said
>>> that Cartier-Bresson, would not do well in camera club competitions.
>>>
>> Agree with your comments, camera club judges are full of themselves on the
>> night, nit picking, they can't correctly evaluate the elements of an image
>> and ridicule the content. As an example some time ago had a image
>> evaluated and the comment was the horizon was not straight, funny about
>> that it had lens curvature. Another example was architecture, where
>> verticals should be vertical or over over emphasised, looking up at a tall
>> building, the judge picked on one as not vertical which should have been,
>> but there were 2 others out of whack as well, but no criticism of the fact
>> but given awards!
>>
>> I have even pointed out plagiarism of images and part images, to the
>> committee, ripped off the web, and they have condoned the use of such
>> images, to the extent where the image has been best in section. I was
>> being a pain in the arse to them.
>>
>> I'm sure other images being presented in competitions, were not setup or
>> photographed by the author, as they didn't show a consistent standard of
>> such photographer compare with there other submissions.
>>
>> What does amaze me is the judges will critique an image but can't explain
>> why or give their opinion how to rectify the perceived fault.
>>
>> One particular night there was this judge who insisted using "Um" all the
>> time, this irritates me as its them catching up with their thoughts,
>> anyhow this was so annoying that I started to count the number of time she
>> used "Um" and the intervals between. Results basically, 700, at 20 second
>> intervals, yep - over 3 hour period.
>> What a long boring night that turned out to be.
>>
>> Camera clubs live in there own little world and stay in a rut.
>
>
> The real question is why you would bother then rather than get out and take
> pictures for your own pleasure, and/or paying clients, rather than approval
> from stupid camera club judges?
>
> Trevor.
>
Most of the members of my club do not shoot for the approval of judges.
We only submit images to the competition for the critique. I find that
third-party comments, where the people are not afraid to hurt my
feelings, can be quite helpful. Quite often they point out flaws that I
have not seen. The only other person who will give me honest opinions on
how crappy some of my images are is my younger daughter, and I can't
really impose on her all the time. She only works approximately 80 hours
a week.


--
PeterN

On 3/18/2013 11:55 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 14:29:02 +0100, Wolfgang Weisselberg
> <> wrote:
>
>> Tony Cooper <> wrote:
>>
>>> The only real objection I have to the competitions is that submissions
>>> are not required to be "fresh". So, instead of shooting to the
>>> mandate, most members pull shots from their archives and the image
>>> might have been taken several years ago.
>>
>> So you're basically saying you should have to re-shoot your
>> own best shoots if you want them to participate?
>
>
> This is about mandate shots, not necessarily the "best" shots in one's
> archives. If you are going to participate in a competition with a
> mandate, and all you are willing to put into it is a trawl through
> your archives, I don't think you are entering into the spirit of
> things. The mandate should encourage you to go out and find something
> that fits.
>
> If it was up to me, I'd announce the mandate three months in advance
> and allow only photographs taken within that span. I'd also have
> quarterly "Open" competitions where archive shots of any age would be
> allowed. This would give the participants three months to find a
> mandate submission for each of the eight "fresh" competitions and a
> chance every three months to present their favorite archive shot.
>
> Besides, what I think is my "best" shot of a (mandate) might be
> bettered if I re-shoot the same scene.
>

Yes, that can be a good idea. However the commentary on older images can
be quite helpful too. Some people are extremely competitive, some to the
point of almost being aggressive. If these people needed for their ego,
it certainly takes nothing away from me for them to be A-holes. One of
the rules is that all postprocessing be done by the maker. We used to
have a member who was quite open about the fact that he was hiring
somebody to do his postprocessing.

We had another member who would accuse people of stealing his shot if
you walked near him with a camera while he was shooting. As a response
we had a special critique where we all went to one location and the
critique was based solely on shots taken at that time and place.


--
PeterN

On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 08:45:32 -0400, PeterN
<> wrote:

>On 3/17/2013 3:31 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 14:14:15 -0400, PeterN
>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Camera clubs live in there own little world and stay in a rut.
>>>
>>> Not all. Just some of the judges. My club has 60 members. On competition
>>> nights we average about 40. On other nights, attendance varies, but
>>> rarely less than 30. We have filed trips every Sunday. about 15 to 20
>>> show up. Some just come for breakfast, where we get into discussions.
>>> About two weeks ago two of our members gave a presentation of shooting
>>> butterflies. Today, we went to a butterfly exhibit. (Yes it was
>>> indoors.) On my recent trip to FL, I was kept busy almost every day,
>>> shooting with members oaf my club.
>>
>> A second club I belong to has about 40-50 members. I joined them
>> yesterday for a field trip to a car show. I'll stop and take a shot
>> or two at a car show, but I'm not a big fan. Too many people standing
>> around the cars, the sun is never right for the shot I want, and I've
>> never been able to get my circular polarizer to do its thing.
>>
>> I went for the social aspect. Eight of us had a meal together and
>> chatted about photography. This smaller club is more social than the
>> larger club I belong to, but the larger club also has field trips.
>>
>> Here's why I don't like car shows:
>>
>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64147677/2013-03-16-75.jpg
>
>If you only take shots like that, I don't blame you. However, I am
>surprised that you don't see a lot of good Street shots at a car show,
>or any other street festival.
>

Oh, I do. Like this:
http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/...01-21-2G-L.jpg
http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/...01-21-1G-L.jpg

At the show where the shot of the Packard was taken, I got this one:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p3e709onjq...3-03-16-56.jpg



>> All the people, the background, and the signs in the window of this
>> Packard. I do shoot some close-up of bits and pieces of cars to avoid
>> the problem. This one's a 1939 Ford:
>>
>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64147677/2013-03-16-88.jpg
>>
>>
>Now that's more like it! That shot captures the essence of the car.
>Nicely done.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

On 3/23/2013 9:51 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 08:45:32 -0400, PeterN
> <> wrote:
>
>> On 3/17/2013 3:31 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 14:14:15 -0400, PeterN
>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Camera clubs live in there own little world and stay in a rut.
>>>>
>>>> Not all. Just some of the judges. My club has 60 members. On competition
>>>> nights we average about 40. On other nights, attendance varies, but
>>>> rarely less than 30. We have filed trips every Sunday. about 15 to 20
>>>> show up. Some just come for breakfast, where we get into discussions.
>>>> About two weeks ago two of our members gave a presentation of shooting
>>>> butterflies. Today, we went to a butterfly exhibit. (Yes it was
>>>> indoors.) On my recent trip to FL, I was kept busy almost every day,
>>>> shooting with members oaf my club.
>>>
>>> A second club I belong to has about 40-50 members. I joined them
>>> yesterday for a field trip to a car show. I'll stop and take a shot
>>> or two at a car show, but I'm not a big fan. Too many people standing
>>> around the cars, the sun is never right for the shot I want, and I've
>>> never been able to get my circular polarizer to do its thing.
>>>
>>> I went for the social aspect. Eight of us had a meal together and
>>> chatted about photography. This smaller club is more social than the
>>> larger club I belong to, but the larger club also has field trips.
>>>
>>> Here's why I don't like car shows:
>>>
>>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64147677/2013-03-16-75.jpg
>>
>> If you only take shots like that, I don't blame you. However, I am
>> surprised that you don't see a lot of good Street shots at a car show,
>> or any other street festival.
>>
>
> Oh, I do. Like this:
> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/...01-21-2G-L.jpg
> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/...01-21-1G-L.jpg

While I understand your enthusiasm for street shots, I have little
personal appreciation of that genre.
That being said, I like the last shot. Too bad the little boy was not in
the upper right-hand corner.

>
> At the show where the shot of the Packard was taken, I got this one:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/p3e709onjq...3-03-16-56.jpg
>
>
>
>>> All the people, the background, and the signs in the window of this
>>> Packard. I do shoot some close-up of bits and pieces of cars to avoid
>>> the problem. This one's a 1939 Ford:
>>>
>>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64147677/2013-03-16-88.jpg
>>>
>>>
>> Now that's more like it! That shot captures the essence of the car.
>> Nicely done.


--
PeterN

On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:35:11 -0400, PeterN
<> wrote:

>On 3/23/2013 9:51 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 08:45:32 -0400, PeterN
>> <> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/17/2013 3:31 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 14:14:15 -0400, PeterN
>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Camera clubs live in there own little world and stay in a rut.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not all. Just some of the judges. My club has 60 members. On competition
>>>>> nights we average about 40. On other nights, attendance varies, but
>>>>> rarely less than 30. We have filed trips every Sunday. about 15 to 20
>>>>> show up. Some just come for breakfast, where we get into discussions.
>>>>> About two weeks ago two of our members gave a presentation of shooting
>>>>> butterflies. Today, we went to a butterfly exhibit. (Yes it was
>>>>> indoors.) On my recent trip to FL, I was kept busy almost every day,
>>>>> shooting with members oaf my club.
>>>>
>>>> A second club I belong to has about 40-50 members. I joined them
>>>> yesterday for a field trip to a car show. I'll stop and take a shot
>>>> or two at a car show, but I'm not a big fan. Too many people standing
>>>> around the cars, the sun is never right for the shot I want, and I've
>>>> never been able to get my circular polarizer to do its thing.
>>>>
>>>> I went for the social aspect. Eight of us had a meal together and
>>>> chatted about photography. This smaller club is more social than the
>>>> larger club I belong to, but the larger club also has field trips.
>>>>
>>>> Here's why I don't like car shows:
>>>>
>>>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64147677/2013-03-16-75.jpg
>>>
>>> If you only take shots like that, I don't blame you. However, I am
>>> surprised that you don't see a lot of good Street shots at a car show,
>>> or any other street festival.
>>>
>>
>> Oh, I do. Like this:
>> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/...01-21-2G-L.jpg
>> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/...01-21-1G-L.jpg
>
>While I understand your enthusiasm for street shots, I have little
>personal appreciation of that genre.
>That being said, I like the last shot. Too bad the little boy was not in
>the upper right-hand corner.

That whooshes me. The boy in the diaper? Why would it improve the
image if he was in the upper right corner?
>
>>
>> At the show where the shot of the Packard was taken, I got this one:
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/p3e709onjq...3-03-16-56.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>>> All the people, the background, and the signs in the window of this
>>>> Packard. I do shoot some close-up of bits and pieces of cars to avoid
>>>> the problem. This one's a 1939 Ford:
>>>>
>>>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64147677/2013-03-16-88.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Now that's more like it! That shot captures the essence of the car.
>>> Nicely done.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 18:56:42 +0000, Elliott Roper <>
wrote:

>In article <514da3d6$0$10759$>, PeterN
><> wrote:
>
>> >
>> > All the people, the background, and the signs in the window of this
>> > Packard. I do shoot some close-up of bits and pieces of cars to avoid
>> > the problem. This one's a 1939 Ford:
>> >
>> > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64147677/2013-03-16-88.jpg
>> >
>> >
>> Now that's more like it! That shot captures the essence of the car.
>> Nicely done.
>
>Totally Ace! I don't think I have ever seen a better picture of an old
>yank tank. As Peter N says - the essence! The bonnet (engine lid? sorry
>I can't think of the right US English) up says car show, but everything
>else says drive-in movie. I love it!

Thank you. The bonnet, in the US, is the hood. You can't see the
hooter button, or horn button as we call it, any of the fenders
(wings), the gas (petrol) tank cap, the trunk (boot), or the muffler
(silencer). You can see the hood through the windshield (windscreen).
This was a 2-door coupe, not a saloon car or a shooting brake.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 23:15:45 -0400, Tony Cooper <>
wrote:
: On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 13:14:00 +1100, "Trevor" <> wrote:
:
: >
: >"Tony Cooper" <> wrote in message
: >news:.. .
: >> The only real objection I have to the competitions is that submissions
: >> are not required to be "fresh". So, instead of shooting to the
: >> mandate, most members pull shots from their archives and the image
: >> might have been taken several years ago.
: >
: >Why should that matter?
:
: The idea of a mandate is to encourage the photographer to find
: something to shoot that he/she might not otherwise shoot and/or to
: look at a scene to find something in it that he/she might not
: otherwise see. It should expand the photographer's thinking.
:
: Putting a time restraint on it, stirs the photographer to do the above
: now instead of going through a couple of thousand archive shots that
: might fit the mandate.
:
: > A seperate comp for a joint walkabout shooting session should cover
: >that where people only get to shoot the same subjects in the same time,
: >for those who prefer that limitation.
:
: To the best of my knowledge, there are no Aborigines that are members
: of the camera club I belong to.

You've lost me in what seems to be a total non sequitur. Obviously I'm missing
something. Can you elaborate to dispel my confusion?

Bob