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Need stabilization advice

 
 
Paul Ciszek
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      11-15-2012
When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. I have to shoot
1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. I need some advice for better
stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should
be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the
tripod only helps a little.

My camera is an Olympus OM-D 4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame
camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and
of course I have no mirror slap. What else am I missing? Is the
standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent)
telephoto work?

--
Please reply to: | No nation is drunken where wine is cheap.
pciszek at panix dot com | --Thomas Jefferson
 
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Mark Storkamp
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      11-15-2012
In article <k83f9q$o1v$(E-Mail Removed)>,
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) (Paul Ciszek) wrote:

> When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
> wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. I have to shoot
> 1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. I need some advice for better
> stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
> Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
> than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should
> be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the
> tripod only helps a little.
>
> My camera is an Olympus OM-D 4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
> problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame
> camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
> support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and
> of course I have no mirror slap. What else am I missing? Is the
> standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent)
> telephoto work?


I'm not familiar with that tripod, but I've heard these pads are highly
regarded by amateur astronomers:

http://www.celestron.com/astronomy/c...suppression-pa
ds.html
 
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ray
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      11-15-2012
On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:20:26 +0000, Paul Ciszek wrote:

> When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
> wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. I have to shoot
> 1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. I need some advice for better
> stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
> Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
> than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should
> be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the
> tripod only helps a little.
>
> My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
> problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame
> camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
> support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and
> of course I have no mirror slap. What else am I missing? Is the
> standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent)
> telephoto work?


Do you use a remote shutter release?
 
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Chris Malcolm
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      11-16-2012
Paul Ciszek <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
> wiggling around in the display as I try to focus.


Your use of the phrase "things wiggling around in the display" rather
than the entire dispaly wiggling suggests that what you may be seeing
is the wirggling of atmospheric thermal turbulense, a bit problem at
these focal lengths. There's nothing you can do about that except
choose better atmosphetic conditions. If your shutter speed is too
slow it will cause blur, if high enough straight edges will be
slightly wavy rather than straight.

> I have to shoot
> 1/200s or faster to get a decent picture.


That's in the right region for escaping from shutter-induced
vibration.

> I need some advice for better
> stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
> Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
> than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should
> be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the
> tripod only helps a little.


> My camera is an Olympus OM-D 4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
> problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame
> camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
> support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and
> of course I have no mirror slap.


What's anti-shock and how doe it avoid the effects of shutter motion?

> What else am I missing? Is the
> standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent)
> telephoto work?


Fasten a laster pointer to your camera and aim it at a distant
wall. Tap the lens. See the vibration in the red dot? A solid granite
tripod might help a little, but most of the problems you're seeing are
partly in the compliance in the camera tripod mount, and partly in the
camera itself. For example, if IBIS can move the sensor, then the
sensor can move relative to the camera body.

But a massless electronic first curtain to the shutter...

--
Chris Malcolm
 
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PeterN
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      11-16-2012
On 11/15/2012 7:15 PM, Frank S wrote:
>
> "ray" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:20:26 +0000, Paul Ciszek wrote:
>>
>>> When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
>>> wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. I have to shoot
>>> 1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. I need some advice for better
>>> stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
>>> Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
>>> than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should
>>> be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the
>>> tripod only helps a little.
>>>
>>> My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
>>> problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame
>>> camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
>>> support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and
>>> of course I have no mirror slap. What else am I missing? Is the
>>> standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent)
>>> telephoto work?

>>
>> Do you use a remote shutter release?

>
> Do you hang a weight from the tripod head? Many tripods have hooks for
> that purpose, and rather than haul a weight around I use my camera bag.
>


That seems to work. Since I don't carry a bag, just a vest , I use a
handy rock, suspended with bungee cords. But, that only works when the
lens is mounted on the tripod.
--
Peter
 
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PeterN
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      11-16-2012
On 11/15/2012 7:49 PM, Chris Malcolm wrote:




>
> But a massless electronic first curtain to the shutter...
>


do you mean one that isn't Catholic? <G>

--
Peter
 
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otter
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      11-17-2012
On Nov 15, 1:20*pm, (E-Mail Removed) (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
> When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
> wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. *I have to shoot
> 1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. *I need some advice for better
> stabilizing a camera. *I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
> Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
> than the weight of my camera and lens. *Is there something else I should
> be doing to dampen the movement? *Hanging weight from the bottom of the
> tripod only helps a little.
>
> My camera is an Olympus OM-D 4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
> problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame
> camera. *I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
> support. *I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and
> of course I have no mirror slap. *What else am I missing? *Is the
> standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent)
> telephoto work?
>
> --
> Please reply to: * * * * * * * | No nation is drunken wherewine is cheap.
> pciszek at panix dot com * * * | * * * * * * --Thomas Jefferson


There is a reason why some people buy 5 series Gitzo tripods and RRS
or Arca-Swiss ballheads (or several other such).

Not sure what a "standard" Manfrotto tripod is, but I had an
experience trying to shoot fireworks with a "Pro" Velbon tripod from a
bridge one Fourth of July with traffic moving across the bridge. As I
was trying to take pictures, I could see the lens hood visibily
vibrate.. Shortly thereafter I bought my current tripod, which is
built like a tank. And I no longer take long exposure pictures from
bridges.

Seems like you have received some good suggestions. I've tried
hanging a camera bag from a tripod in the past. One problem is wind
may cause the bag to sway, so you have a whole new source of movement.
If you could figure out some way to to rig a damper between the lens
hood, and a weight on the ground, that might help.
 
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Paul Ciszek
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      11-18-2012

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, ray <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>Do you use a remote shutter release?


Cable remote. So far as I know, there is no IR remote for the OM-D.

--
"Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS
crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in
TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in
bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither."

 
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Chris Malcolm
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      11-20-2012
Paul Ciszek <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, ray <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>Do you use a remote shutter release?


> Cable remote. So far as I know, there is no IR remote for the OM-D.


If there's a cable there's a socket into which it plugs, and very
likely someone in Hong Kong selling a radio shutter release which fits
it. Which in some cases is cheaper than the often rather luxuriously
priced camera manufacturer's cable release.

--
Chris Malcolm
 
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-hh
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      11-20-2012
On Nov 16, 9:10*pm, Eric Stevens <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:07:34 -0500, Alan Browne
> > [...]
> >Since your approach does not eliminate vibration - just changes it, it
> >is not a solution at all.

>
> You can never eliminate vibration. The shock of the mirror action and
> the shutter will always cause vibration. The only solutions which are
> open to you lie in changing the response to the shock.


And since the energy from the mirror/shutter is proportional to the
mass of those objects, increasing the reactionary mass will alter said
response(s).


> >Can I see your recorded accelerometer data?

>
> There was a time when I had scads of the stuff but I have long since
> dumped it all.


Plus asking for data is a two-way street.

> Even when using a timer based delay my Nikon D300 does not
> lift the mirror until the instant of the exposure.


Although it should be noted that this does vary by manufacturer and/or
product: some of my (d)SLR bodies do lift the mirror at the start of
a timed shot which allows that source of vibration to dissipate away
before the shutter trips.

> >Or, get a lens with iris shutter - very low induced vibration (impulse
> >is radial).

>
> It's very hard to fit an iris shutter to a DSLR.


It is still just changing ... not actually "eliminating" ... the
induced vibration, although this is in of itself not necessarily a bad
thing: because the axis of rotation is about the lens, a larger
magnitude rotation can occur in the middle of the image's frame before
the magnitude of the error results in the data being crossed into the
next pixel receptor bucket on the sensor. OTOH, the outer fringe may
very well be worse for the same reason.


-hh
 
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