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The Sorry State of C++ Portability by Jeff Wofford

 
 
Martin Ba
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      11-02-2012
On 01.11.2012 23:51, Rui Maciel wrote:
> ...
>
> ... For
> example, although Microsoft directly participates in the revision processo
> for the C standard for years now, the company even fails to support C99. If
> you are the world's largest software company and you fail to support a
> standard that you helped shape even after a decade has passed, and in the
> process you've managed to churn out multiple incantations of an operating
> system, it's quite clear that it is an unwillingness issue.
>


Just out of curiosity - who actually needs (full) C99 on Windows?

cheers,
Martin
 
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Cholo Lennon
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      11-02-2012
On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:44:02 PM UTC-3, Oswald Jaskolla wrote:
> On 10/30/2012 02:27 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>
> > The Sorry State of C++ Portability by Jeff Wofford:

>
> > http://www.jeffwofford.com/?p=1102

>
>
>
> That article should have been called "The Sorry State of Microsoft's C++
>
> Compiler".


.... written by a silly guy who want to use the very new C++ features in a cross platform production code without checking its availability in all involved compilers... OMG!

--
Cholo Lennon
Bs.As.
ARG

 
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Bo Persson
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      11-02-2012
Jorgen Grahn skrev 2012-11-01 22:50:
> On Thu, 2012-11-01, Rui Maciel wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>
>>> The Sorry State of C++ Portability by Jeff Wofford:
>>> http://www.jeffwofford.com/?p=1102

>>
>> The title doesn't fit the article, which is only about how MS Visual Studio
>> fails to support C++11. And by now MS VS lagging behind, or MS dragging its
>> feet, shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

>
> It surprised /me/, but maybe that's because I don't pay much attention
> to what MS does. I was under the impression that they were "on the
> bus" this time.
>
> (Perhaps we've forgotten how old-fashioned long release cycles work,
> now that we can have a new browser, Linux kernel, gcc, etc once a
> week?)
>
> /Jorgen
>


I think they just made a terrible mistake in their priority, similar to
what they did 10 years ago, when VC++ 2002 with managed extensions flopped.

The reports say that MS started to implement key C++11 features like
variadic templates, but never finished because of lack of resources.

"Fortunately" they just had enough time to implement support for Windows
8, Windows RT, and the entirely new (and totally unasked for) C++/CX.


Bo Persson

 
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Rui Maciel
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      11-02-2012
Martin Ba wrote:

> Just out of curiosity - who actually needs (full) C99 on Windows?


Anyone who writes C programs that need to run on MS Windows.


Rui Maciel
 
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Werner
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      11-02-2012
On Friday, November 2, 2012 2:52:36 PM UTC+2, Cholo Lennon wrote:

> ... written by a silly guy who want to use the very new C++ features in a cross platform production code without checking its availability in all involved compilers... OMG!


The best way to learn something new is to start using it.
Not so silly... I would think. Visionary, perhaps.
 
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woodbrian77@gmail.com
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      11-02-2012
On Friday, November 2, 2012 9:36:20 AM UTC-4, Bo Persson wrote:
> Jorgen Grahn skrev 2012-11-01 22:50:
>
> > On Thu, 2012-11-01, Rui Maciel wrote:

>
> >> Lynn McGuire wrote:

>
> >>

>
> >>> The Sorry State of C++ Portability by Jeff Wofford:

>
> >>> http://www.jeffwofford.com/?p=1102

>
> >>

>
> >> The title doesn't fit the article, which is only about how MS Visual Studio

>
> >> fails to support C++11. And by now MS VS lagging behind, or MS dragging its

>
> >> feet, shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

>
> >

>
> > It surprised /me/, but maybe that's because I don't pay much attention

>
> > to what MS does. I was under the impression that they were "on the

>
> > bus" this time.

>
> >

>
> > (Perhaps we've forgotten how old-fashioned long release cycles work,

>
> > now that we can have a new browser, Linux kernel, gcc, etc once a

>
> > week?)

>
> >

>
> > /Jorgen

>
> >

>
>
>
> I think they just made a terrible mistake in their priority, similar to
>
> what they did 10 years ago, when VC++ 2002 with managed extensions flopped.
>
>
>
> The reports say that MS started to implement key C++11 features like
>
> variadic templates, but never finished because of lack of resources.
>
>


I've wondered about their priorities also. I wouldn't
mind if they didn't get the variadics until later but
wish they had support for some of the other new parts
of the language.


>
> "Fortunately" they just had enough time to implement support for Windows
>
> 8, Windows RT, and the entirely new (and totally unasked for) C++/CX.
>
>


I think the operating system work must seem like a better
investment than C++ stuff.
 
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Ian Collins
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      11-02-2012
On 11/03/12 05:24, Werner wrote:
> On Friday, November 2, 2012 2:52:36 PM UTC+2, Cholo Lennon wrote:
>
>> ... written by a silly guy who want to use the very new C++ features in a cross platform production code without checking its availability in all involved compilers... OMG!

>
> The best way to learn something new is to start using it.
> Not so silly...


But using something before checking whether it is supported on a target
platform is!

> I would think. Visionary, perhaps.


Foolhardy more like!

--
Ian Collins
 
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Nobody
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      11-02-2012
On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 08:32:17 +1300, Ian Collins wrote:

> But using something before checking whether it is supported on a target
> platform is!


It isn't clear whether some version of Windows was originally considered
as a target platform, or if he just decided to try porting to Windows
as an afterthought (the main target platform appears to be iOS).

 
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Jorgen Grahn
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      11-03-2012
On Thu, 2012-11-01, Rui Maciel wrote:
> Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>
>> It surprised /me/, but maybe that's because I don't pay much attention
>> to what MS does. I was under the impression that they were "on the
>> bus" this time.
>>
>> (Perhaps we've forgotten how old-fashioned long release cycles work,
>> now that we can have a new browser, Linux kernel, gcc, etc once a
>> week?)

>
> I don't believe it has anything to do with long release cycles. For
> example, although Microsoft directly participates in the revision processo
> for the C standard for years now, the company even fails to support C99.


I'm aware of that, but I got the impression they were serious about C++.
There are many failure modes in a large company; this doesn't have to
be C99 all over again.

> If you are the world's largest software company and you fail to support a
> standard that you helped shape even after a decade has passed, and in the
> process you've managed to churn out multiple incantations of an operating
> system, it's quite clear that it is an unwillingness issue.


You could call it unwillingless I guess ... but don't overestimate the
power of Microsoft. I suspect their group of compiler people is
rather small and isolated from the rest, and the core who know what
they're /doing/ is even smaller. You can't just throw people at the
problem ("hey, Bob from the Excel team is free; let's put him on C++
lambdas!") so you have to prioritize.

/Jorgen

--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
 
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Jorgen Grahn
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      11-03-2012
On Fri, 2012-11-02, Rui Maciel wrote:
> Martin Ba wrote:
>
>> Just out of curiosity - who actually needs (full) C99 on Windows?

>
> Anyone who writes C programs that need to run on MS Windows.


And the rest of us, so coworkers can't say "C99 is irrelevant, not
even Microsoft implement it!"

(Relevance for C++: some C99 features makes the language much more
tolerable for people used to C++.)

/Jorgen

--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
 
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