«

the current ICC profile connection space is an ideal print, or maybe an
ideal subtractive system http://www.color.org

for transparent display, translucent display, motion picture display and
other additive systems like CRTs LCDs etc. this means you have to create
information to render the ideal print to these spaces

wouldn't it be better too have an ideal additive system as the profile
connection space and compress the tone and color the data for prints, as
opposed to creating information for additive systems

probably would lead to more precise capture rendering too


--
Dale

Am 27.10.2012 09:37, schrieb Dale:
> the current ICC profile connection space is an ideal print, or maybe an
> ideal subtractive system http://www.color.org
>
> for transparent display, translucent display, motion picture display and
> other additive systems like CRTs LCDs etc. this means you have to create
> information to render the ideal print to these spaces
>
> wouldn't it be better too have an ideal additive system as the profile
> connection space and compress the tone and color the data for prints, as
> opposed to creating information for additive systems
>
> probably would lead to more precise capture rendering too

I beg your pardon, but one of the choices for the profile connection
space is XYZ which is a perfectly linear, additive system.

Greetings,
Thomas

On 10/27/2012 09:24 AM, Thomas Richter wrote:
> Am 27.10.2012 09:37, schrieb Dale:
>> the current ICC profile connection space is an ideal print, or maybe an
>> ideal subtractive system http://www.color.org
>>
>> for transparent display, translucent display, motion picture display and
>> other additive systems like CRTs LCDs etc. this means you have to create
>> information to render the ideal print to these spaces
>>
>> wouldn't it be better too have an ideal additive system as the profile
>> connection space and compress the tone and color the data for prints, as
>> opposed to creating information for additive systems
>>
>> probably would lead to more precise capture rendering too
>
> I beg your pardon, but one of the choices for the profile connection
> space is XYZ which is a perfectly linear, additive system.
>
> Greetings,
> Thomas


isn't this the XYZ relative to an ideal print? I'm pretty sure it is.
There is also the difference between color matching and appearance
matching. Appearance matching can be image dependent so you would have
to use some kind of scene balance algorithm, SBA , which doesn't quite
work for professional images and is best left to the image
editor/artist. SBA can prove good enough for most consumer images.

--
Dale

On 10/27/2012 09:24 AM, Thomas Richter wrote:
> Am 27.10.2012 09:37, schrieb Dale:
>> the current ICC profile connection space is an ideal print, or maybe an
>> ideal subtractive system http://www.color.org
>>
>> for transparent display, translucent display, motion picture display and
>> other additive systems like CRTs LCDs etc. this means you have to create
>> information to render the ideal print to these spaces
>>
>> wouldn't it be better too have an ideal additive system as the profile
>> connection space and compress the tone and color the data for prints, as
>> opposed to creating information for additive systems
>>
>> probably would lead to more precise capture rendering too
>
> I beg your pardon, but one of the choices for the profile connection
> space is XYZ which is a perfectly linear, additive system.
>
> Greetings,
> Thomas

not exactly, you can't have an absolute profile connection space and
have appearance matching, you need a reference medium for the profile
connection space, which there is

D50 would be a better choice for an ideal additive reference system, it
could be used for some systems looking beyond the visual spectrum also,
whereas XYZ is limited to the visual spectrum


--
Dale

On 10/27/2012 10:56 AM, Dale wrote:
> beyond the visual spectrum

the infrared

and the ultraviolence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clockwork_orange

"Does God want good, or the choice of goodness, is the man who chooses
the bad, in some way better than the man who has the good forced upon him."

--
Dale

On 10/27/2012 10:56 AM, Dale wrote:
> D50 would be a better choice

strike that, sorry, needs XYZ and a reference additive display device,
like a television, motion picture projector, computer monitor, etc.


--
Dale

On 10/27/2012 11:52 AM, Dale wrote:
> On 10/27/2012 10:56 AM, Dale wrote:
>> D50 would be a better choice
>
> strike that, sorry, needs XYZ and a reference additive display device,
> like a television, motion picture projector, computer monitor, etc.
>
>

or maybe D50, XYZ, and an ideal transparency or set of filters


--
Dale

On 10/27/2012 09:24 AM, Thomas Richter wrote:
> Am 27.10.2012 09:37, schrieb Dale:
>> the current ICC profile connection space is an ideal print, or maybe an
>> ideal subtractive system http://www.color.org
>>
>> for transparent display, translucent display, motion picture display and
>> other additive systems like CRTs LCDs etc. this means you have to create
>> information to render the ideal print to these spaces
>>
>> wouldn't it be better too have an ideal additive system as the profile
>> connection space and compress the tone and color the data for prints, as
>> opposed to creating information for additive systems
>>
>> probably would lead to more precise capture rendering too
>
> I beg your pardon, but one of the choices for the profile connection
> space is XYZ which is a perfectly linear, additive system.
>
> Greetings,
> Thomas

not a good encoding or calculation space, need E*

probably added to the mix for people who want to avoid the right
calculations


--
Dale

Am 27.10.2012 16:27, schrieb Dale:

> isn't this the XYZ relative to an ideal print?

No. XYZ is a perfectly additive space based on physical intensities and
spectral curves based on work of the CIE.

> I'm pretty sure it is.

You are confused.

> There is also the difference between color matching and appearance
> matching.

Which is irrelevant for the question of the profile connection space. It
is the matter of how an ICC color management module implements the
conversion between source and target space.

> Appearance matching can be image dependent so you would have
> to use some kind of scene balance algorithm, SBA , which doesn't quite
> work for professional images and is best left to the image
> editor/artist. SBA can prove good enough for most consumer images.

And your point is?

Am 27.10.2012 16:56, schrieb Dale:

> not exactly, you can't have an absolute profile connection space and
> have appearance matching, you need a reference medium for the profile
> connection space, which there is
>
> D50 would be a better choice for an ideal additive reference system, it
> could be used for some systems looking beyond the visual spectrum also,
> whereas XYZ is limited to the visual spectrum

D50 is not a reference system. It is a white point. XYZ is an absolute
color system - you only need a white point if you need a white point
adaption, i.e. if you want to map the scene white point to the target
(display device, printer etc) white point. Not said that you shouldn't
do that, but that's a different task and part of what a CMM might or
might not implement, for example by means of a Bradford transformation.

Of course XYZ is "limited" to the visual spectrum, that's the whole
point of XYZ - what is visible by humans. If you need color matching for
your canary bird, well, XYZ and ICC profiles are not for you. But I
believe that then the market for such technology is pretty limited. (-: