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Figure it's ok to mention this stuff since Dpreview did

 
 
nospam
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      10-17-2012
In article <k5l7gq$gu8$(E-Mail Removed)>, Mayayana
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> > It all ties in nicely with Microsoft and other companies who want to
> > create a computer universe (indeed, an entire multimedia universe)
> > where all media and media use is "rented" as a service and not owned.

>
> Yes. That's partly why the prices seem so outlandish
> to me.


the prices are not outlandish at all. they're competitive with similar
products.

> Not only is it a limited tool compared to a
> [cheaper] PC.


for some tasks it may be, but for other tasks it's much more capable,
easier to use and a much more pleasant user experience, which means the
user is more productive.

more importantly, it's a totally different product, so you can't
directly compare prices or features.

> The whole point is to bring in income
> from everything that people do with it.


you're delusional.

> With that
> strategy I would expect them to take a loss on the
> hardware,


they're not taking a loss on the hardware.

on the other hand, amazon and google are reportedly selling the kindle
and nexus 7 at or slightly below cost, depending on what story you
believe, with the profit coming from amazon sales or google ad revenue.

> counting on profits down the road. (30%
> cut for all "apps" bought through their store,


30% is actually much less than the overhead of traditional distribution
channels, but why let facts get in the way. from a developer point of
view, 30% is cheap.

at the end of the day, it's a whole lot easier for users to find and
install apps and keep them updated. when users buy a new device, it's a
couple of taps to reinstall everything and continue working.

> ad
> income from Hotmail, etc.


ads are how google and much of the internet works. people want stuff
for free and are willing to put up with ads in order to do that. those
who are willing to pay can have apps without ads.

also, you're behind the times. hotmail is eventually going away.
<http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012...53385_1_hotmai
l-customers-e-mail-system-bgc-partners-analyst>
Microsoft Corp. is replacing Hotmail, its Web-based consumer e-mail
system, with an expanded version of Outlook, the system widely used
by businesses.

> Not to mention a captive
> audience that can be tracked more efficiently than
> computer users can be.)


nonsense.

just where do you come up with this garbage?

you're also paranoid.
 
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nospam
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      10-17-2012
In article <k5laup$a8$(E-Mail Removed)>, Mayayana
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> | > and a lot of people are going to
> | > be surprised when they find out that 1) they can't run
> | > Windows software
> |
> | so what? that hasn't affected ipads one bit.
>
> No, it hasn't. But those are two very different things.


they're not different at all. the surface tablet is microsoft's version
of an ipad.

> People
> buy iPads for fun and swank... And because they're Apple fans
> ...And because they have money to burn.


nonsense. just where do you come up with this garbage?

most people who buy ipads and also iphones are *not* apple users, let
alone fans, and very few people have money to burn in today's economy.

ipads are being used in *all* sorts of ways for all sorts of things. of
course, some people do use ipads for fun, and there's absolutely
nothing wrong with that, while others use them for more productive
work. 94% of fortune 500 companies are using or testing ipads, and you
can be sure they're not doing that because they have money to burn or
for fun.

for example, many hospitals and commercial airlines are using ipads,
both of which are probably the farthest from fun and swank as you can
possibly get:

<http://www.boston.com/business/techn...4/04/for_some_
doctors_the_ipad_is_claiming_a_key_spot_next_to_th e_stethoscope/>
Last month, at the launch of the iPad 2, Apple showed a video in
which Dr. John Halamka, chief information officer at Beth Israel
Deaconess, said the iPad ³will change the way doctors practice
medicine.¹¹

It was a bold statement, and not the first lofty claim made about
technology. But this much is clear: Hospitals across the United
States and as far as Israel and Australia are embracing iPads.

<http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2397629,00.asp>
American is the first major airline to receive official approval to
use iPads. Dorr said there are few smaller, on-demand airlines that
have gotten the go-ahead, including N-Jets, Express Jet Management
(EJM).

Other major airlines are currently going through the operational
evaluation, including Alaska Airlines, United and Continental, and
Delta.

> They associate
> Windows with getting work done.


no, they associate windows with malware and support headaches.

> It's *very* unlikely that
> anyone will ever buy anything Microsoft for swank.


microsoft xbox.

people also buy windows pcs for gaming, sometimes *just* for gaming.

but that's fun, you don't do fun.

> Microsoft know that so they're deliberately confusing people.
> They're marketing the new line as a single interface across
> devices, implying that people can have Windows everywhere.


having the same interface across mobile and desktop is actually an
interesting strategy. if it works, microsoft has a huge winner. on the
other hand, if it fails, they're screwed. they're well behind apple and
google, and this is really their only chance.

> MS has been clear in technical docs that Win RT is not the
> same thing as Win 8, but their actions lead people to believe
> otherwise. (Even much of the media mistakenly think Win RT
> is a variant of Win 8.) Win 8 runs Windows software and has a
> Metro screen tacked on to market MS services. Win RT is those
> services, running on an ARM chip that can't handle Windows
> software, with a sort of fake "Desktop" screen to confuse people.
> (The Win RT Desktop only runs built-in Microsoft ARM software.
> It's not a Desktop as Windows users know it.)


there will be some confusion, but that should eventually sort itself
out.

> So why would anyone buy a Win RT tablet, which so far has
> very few apps, when they can have an iPad for about the
> same price (which now has, what, about 47 billion apps?)


so you admit the price is not absurd.

also, it's just under 1 million ios apps have been approved since
apple's app store opened.

> and
> they can have a fashion statement in the deal?


what's with the fashion statement nonsense?

people don't buy ipads as a fashion statement.

> I submit that
> many of those sales will be to people who have been misled into
> believing that they're actually getting some version of
> Windows + extras, when all they're really getting is warmed-over
> MS online services and *maybe* an appealing app store. It's
> yet to be seen whether the MS store will ever get an alluring
> stable of apps.


it remains to be seen just how successful windows 8 will be, and
whether or not it will end up being a vista 2.

> Windows people are used to getting things free.


hah! you must be kidding!!!

that's the most ludicrous thing i've seen anyone write in a *long*
time. you don't actually believe that idiocy, do you?

> Windows phones
> have yet to sell. Windows tablets aren't even out yet. Anyone
> who writes for Metro is basically writing trinkets that have to be
> approved by MS, with MS getting 30% of the profits, and no
> certain market. All of those factors work against developers wanting
> to take a chance on Metro.


metro is certainly a smaller market than ios and android, but there is
still money to be made. some developers will take a chance, and some of
them will do quite well. some won't. there is plenty of opportunity for
killer apps. big fish in a small pond versus small fish in a big pond.

> (I guess if you don't think a Facebook app, or a Find-me-a-
> coffeeshop app, or an Angry Birds app is a trinket then we just
> have different definitions of trinket. To me those are all simple,
> small, trivial entertainment utilities.)


you clearly have *no* clue what an ipad can do. none whatsoever.

in addition to doctors and commercial airline pilots, there are *so*
many other examples that it's impossible to list them all.

here's another:
<http://kevin.lexblog.com/2012/07/23/30-of-attorneys-use-an-ipad/>
30% of attorneys in the U.S. are using an iPad per the 2012 ABA Tech
Survey performed by the ABA Legal Technology Resource Center. Lawyers
are seeing real value in the iPad, it¹s not only lighter than a
laptop, but also a more efficient and organized way to receive and
review news and information.

bottom line: ipads are rapidly replacing laptops for all sorts of
things.
 
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nospam
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      10-17-2012
In article
<(E-Mail Removed)>,
RichA <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> It all ties in nicely with Microsoft and other companies who want to
> create a computer universe (indeed, an entire multimedia universe)
> where all media and media use is "rented" as a service and not owned.


nonsense.

> What better way to do it than releasing endless numbers of grossly
> (compared to a decent home computer) tablets and phones.


grossly what? did you leave off a word?

like it or not (and you obviously do not), the future is with mobile
devices, which means tablets and phones.
 
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Whisky-dave
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      10-17-2012
On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 12:29:20 AM UTC+1, Mayayana wrote:
> | So Microscoft releases (essentially) a $199 Blackberry Playbook at
>
> | $499?? And the Blackberry tablet was a sales flop.
>
> |
>
> |
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/16/tech/g...html?hpt=hp_t3
>
>
>
> The MS tablets will probably be a flop, too, but
>
> they're not Blackberry's. The whole thing hinges on
>
> Metro and MS online services. They want you to buy
>
> Metro apps that they get a cut on, "consume" media,
>
> get an MS email address, etc. At this point they have
>
> very little to offer, and a lot of people are going to
>
> be surprised when they find out that 1) they can't run
>
> Windows software and 2) the only software they can
>
> run is trinket apps from the Windows online store.
>
>
>
> Personally I think the prices are absurd,


I'm not sure what's so absurd about the prices.
Well some of the andriod ones are as they might look OK but they just don;t fuction very well and the majoroty of the apps are pretty crap.



> but there
>
> are millions of people paying similar to buy iPads.


So chances are the price asled isn;t quite as absurd as you think.

>
> So there seems to be a ...tablet customer ... born
>
> every minute.


Well apparently 255 people are born every minute and I'm betting more than one of those will buy a tablet computer of some sort.
 
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Mort
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      10-17-2012
nospam wrote:
> bottom line: ipads are rapidly replacing laptops for all sorts of
> things.


Hi,

At several classical music concerts that I saw recently, the musicians
used "sheet music" on an i-phone, rather than in paper form.

Mort Linder
 
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Whisky-dave
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      10-17-2012
On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 2:38:45 PM UTC+1, Mort wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
> > bottom line: ipads are rapidly replacing laptops for all sorts of

>
> > things.

>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> At several classical music concerts that I saw recently, the musicians
>
> used "sheet music" on an i-phone, rather than in paper form.


Call themselves muscians, can't they remmeber the music they're playing

>
>
>
> Mort Linder


 
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jdanield
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      10-17-2012
Le 17/10/2012 15:38, Mort a écrit :


> At several classical music concerts that I saw recently, the musicians
> used "sheet music" on an i-phone, rather than in paper form.
>


i-phone?

i-pad I could understand...

jdd

 
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Mayayana
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      10-17-2012
| having the same interface across mobile and desktop is actually an
| interesting strategy. if it works, microsoft has a huge winner.

What I was trying to explain is that it's not even
the same system, much less the same interface.
People aren't going to use Metro apps on PCs and
they *can't* use Windows software on Surface.

I just came across a story tonight that demonstrates
what I'm talking about. It turns out that Microsoft
has made such an effort to mislead that most of their
store employees don't even know the difference
between Win 8 and Win RT. It's a humorous and
somewhat shocking read:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/17/3...tore-employees

Nor does Walt Mossberg understand what's going on,
despite his billing himself as a tech. guru:

http://allthingsd.com/20121016/windo...he-tablet-age/

(I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt in assuming
that he's actually confused and not deliberately
fudging the facts to placate Microsoft.)

I can't imagine why you're championing a
Microsoft product, but I look forward to your
report on the pros and cons of your new, $500
Hotmail gadget.


 
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Mort
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      10-18-2012
jdanield wrote:
> Le 17/10/2012 15:38, Mort a écrit :
>
>
>> At several classical music concerts that I saw recently, the musicians
>> used "sheet music" on an i-phone, rather than in paper form.
>>

>
> i-phone?
>
> i-pad I could understand...
>
> jdd
>

'
Hi,

I stand corrected. As a non-Apple person, I occasionally use the wrong
word. Sorry.

Mort
 
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jdanield
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      10-18-2012
Le 18/10/2012 02:18, Mort a écrit :


> I stand corrected. As a non-Apple person, I occasionally use the wrong
> word. Sorry.


no problem, I do not own i-pad neither

actually, most partitions are very large (much larger than usual paper
sheet, so it's difficult to make photocopies, so even an i-pad is small

jdd
 
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