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python docs search for 'print'

 
 
David Hoese
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      09-04-2012
A friend made me aware of this:
When a python beginner (2.x) quick searches for "print" on
docs.python.org, the print function doesn't even come up in the top 20
results. The print statement isn't even listed as far as I can tell.
Is there something that can be done about this to make it easier for
beginners?

I understand that this is a very basic search and "print" is a very
common word and a very basic python statement, but it's pretty difficult
for a beginner to learn when the first 5 results are about the
disassembler and the next 5 are C functions.

-Dave
 
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Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
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      09-04-2012
David Hoese wrote:

> A friend made me aware of this:
> When a python beginner (2.x) quick searches for "print" on
> docs.python.org, the print function doesn't even come up in the top 20
> results. The print statement isn't even listed as far as I can tell.
> Is there something that can be done about this to make it easier for
> beginners?
>
> I understand that this is a very basic search and "print" is a very
> common word and a very basic python statement, but it's pretty difficult
> for a beginner to learn when the first 5 results are about the
> disassembler and the next 5 are C functions.


If they scroll down they will find, among other entries, "1. Introduction"
(to the "Python library"), which they should have read in the first place.

The main problem, as I see it, is that the first search results are Unicode-
sorted by document title, where uppercase letters come first.

However, I do not think that posting to this newsgroup will change anything
there. You should take it to the python.org people instead who are, I am
sorry to say so, responsible for this mess as well¹ (I have seldom, if
ever, found anything useful using that search; usually I go by TOC and
index). There is a "Found a bug?" link at the bottom that appears to be of
use.

_____
¹ The other mess they created (or allowed to be created) is this mashup of
newsgroup and mailing list, neither of which works properly, because the
underlying protocols are not compatible. Add to that the abomination
that Google Groups has become.
--
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not Cc: me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
 
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Steven D'Aprano
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-04-2012
On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 13:58:43 -0400, David Hoese wrote:

> A friend made me aware of this:
> When a python beginner (2.x) quick searches for "print" on
> docs.python.org, the print function doesn't even come up in the top 20
> results. The print statement isn't even listed as far as I can tell. Is
> there something that can be done about this to make it easier for
> beginners?
>
> I understand that this is a very basic search and "print" is a very
> common word and a very basic python statement, but it's pretty difficult
> for a beginner to learn when the first 5 results are about the
> disassembler and the next 5 are C functions.


I sympathise. The search functionality on docs.python.org is frankly
crap, and the best thing for your friend to do is to learn to use google,
duckduckgo or some other search engine:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=python+print
http://duckduckgo.com/html/?q=python+print

In this case, google hits the right Python documentation on the first
link. Duckduckgo doesn't do nearly so well, but it comes up with a bunch
of useful third-party links. It does better for searches with fewer

The second best thing for your friend to do is to learn to read the index
to the docs, where the print statement is listed:

http://docs.python.org/reference/index.html

You can use your browser's Find command to search the page for "print".


--
Steven
 
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Steven D'Aprano
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      09-04-2012
On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 20:27:38 +0200, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> ¹ The other mess they created (or allowed to be created) is this mashup
> of newsgroup and mailing list, neither of which works properly,



In what way do they not work properly?


> because
> the underlying protocols are not compatible.


What?

That is rather like saying that you can't read email via a web interface
because the http protocol is not compatible with the smtp protocol.


> Add to that the abomination that Google Groups has become.


It's always been an abomination, although I understand it is much, much
worse now. Blame Google for that.


--
Steven
 
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Steven D'Aprano
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-04-2012
On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 18:28:31 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> https://www.google.com.au/search?q=python+print
> http://duckduckgo.com/html/?q=python+print
>
> In this case, google hits the right Python documentation on the first
> link. Duckduckgo doesn't do nearly so well, but it comes up with a bunch
> of useful third-party links. It does better for searches with fewer



Gah! Brain meltdown! DDG does better on searches for Python terms with
fewer extraneous meanings, e.g. "python print" finds many links about
fashion, but https://duckduckgo.com/html/?q=python+tuple is all about
Python tuples



--
Steven
 
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Ramchandra Apte
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-05-2012
On Tuesday, 4 September 2012 23:29:26 UTC+5:30, David Hoese wrote:
> A friend made me aware of this:
>
> When a python beginner (2.x) quick searches for "print" on
>
> docs.python.org, the print function doesn't even come up in the top 20
>
> results. The print statement isn't even listed as far as I can tell.
>
> Is there something that can be done about this to make it easier for
>
> beginners?
>
>
>
> I understand that this is a very basic search and "print" is a very
>
> common word and a very basic python statement, but it's pretty difficult
>
> for a beginner to learn when the first 5 results are about the
>
> disassembler and the next 5 are C functions.
>
>
>
> -Dave


I was actually planning to write a bug on this.
----------------
my project which you will *never* *never* contribute to http://code.google.com/p/py2c
 
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Ramchandra Apte
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-05-2012
On Tuesday, 4 September 2012 23:29:26 UTC+5:30, David Hoese wrote:
> A friend made me aware of this:
>
> When a python beginner (2.x) quick searches for "print" on
>
> docs.python.org, the print function doesn't even come up in the top 20
>
> results. The print statement isn't even listed as far as I can tell.
>
> Is there something that can be done about this to make it easier for
>
> beginners?
>
>
>
> I understand that this is a very basic search and "print" is a very
>
> common word and a very basic python statement, but it's pretty difficult
>
> for a beginner to learn when the first 5 results are about the
>
> disassembler and the next 5 are C functions.
>
>
>
> -Dave


I was actually planning to write a bug on this.
----------------
my project which you will *never* *never* contribute to http://code.google.com/p/py2c
 
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Terry Reedy
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-05-2012
On 9/4/2012 11:22 PM, Ramchandra Apte wrote:

> I was actually planning to write a bug on this.


If you do, find the right place to submit it.
bugs.python.org is for issues relating to the cpython repository.'
I fairly sure that the website search code is not there.

If you do find the right place, you should contribute something to an
improvement. The current search performance is not a secret, so mere
complaints are useless.

--
Terry Jan Reedy

 
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Ramchandra Apte
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-05-2012
On Wednesday, 5 September 2012 09:35:43 UTC+5:30, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 9/4/2012 11:22 PM, Ramchandra Apte wrote:
>
>
>
> > I was actually planning to write a bug on this.

>
>
>
> If you do, find the right place to submit it.
>
> bugs.python.org is for issues relating to the cpython repository.'
>
> I fairly sure that the website search code is not there.
>
>
>
> If you do find the right place, you should contribute something to an
>
> improvement. The current search performance is not a secret, so mere
>
> complaints are useless.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Terry Jan Reedy


I was thinking we could just use Google Site search (it's fast easy to setup and gives good results)
 
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Ramchandra Apte
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-05-2012
On Wednesday, 5 September 2012 09:35:43 UTC+5:30, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 9/4/2012 11:22 PM, Ramchandra Apte wrote:
>
>
>
> > I was actually planning to write a bug on this.

>
>
>
> If you do, find the right place to submit it.
>
> bugs.python.org is for issues relating to the cpython repository.'
>
> I fairly sure that the website search code is not there.
>
>
>
> If you do find the right place, you should contribute something to an
>
> improvement. The current search performance is not a secret, so mere
>
> complaints are useless.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Terry Jan Reedy


I was thinking we could just use Google Site search (it's fast easy to setup and gives good results)
 
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