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GCC is re-implementing in C++ and C discarded

 
 
lovecreatesbeauty
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      08-22-2012
Hello! Wise people!


Just read the shock news[1][2] that GCC is re-implementing in C++ and C will be discarded ( deprecated ? : )

But still not very clear on it.

.. does it mean C++ is better than C?

.. the re-implemention involves which one(s): C compiler, C++ compiler, and Java, Fortran ..?

.. what will the man who said "C++ is horrible language" and his related linux project do?


-vvvv-

This page is meant to eventually help document the ongoing effort in the "gcc-in-cxx" branch to make gcc compile in C++ mode, i.e. as C++ source code.

So, the goal of this branch is to facilitate switching GCC's implementation language to C++.

-^^^^-

[1] http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/gcc-in-cxx
[2] http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/cxx-conversion
 
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Thomas Richter
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      08-22-2012
Am 22.08.2012 19:34, schrieb lovecreatesbeauty:
> Hello! Wise people!
>
>
> Just read the shock news[1][2] that GCC is re-implementing in C++ and C will be discarded ( deprecated ? : )
>
> But still not very clear on it.
>
> . does it mean C++ is better than C?


It means "use the right tool for the right job." What is "better"
depends on your metric. In my experience, designing large and
complicated projects in C alone is harder than to do it in C++ where you
have better ability to check for correctness of your constructions, and
a more expressive language to get the job done. If your goal is to
develop lean software on smaller systems, C is the better choice as its
overhead is smaller and its usually better supported on processors off
the mainstream.

> . the re-implemention involves which one(s): C compiler, C++ compiler, and Java, Fortran ..?


I don't know. Probably all of them one after another. Note that gcc has
a common code generator that will, likely, be in C++ for all those cases.

> . what will the man who said "C++ is horrible language" and his related linux project do?


Who the **** cares? Linux requires a lot of arcane magic as far as the
linkage and loading process is concerned, and critically depends on some
of the internals how that goes for the gcc. It would be harder to keep
this magic working for C++.

Greetings,
Thomas
 
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fmassei@gmail.com
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      08-22-2012
On Wednesday, August 22, 2012 7:34:37 PM UTC+2, lovecreatesbeauty wrote:
> Hello! Wise people!
>
> Just read the shock news[1][2] that GCC is re-implementing in C++ and C will be discarded ( deprecated ? : )
>
> But still not very clear on it.
>


It just means that gcc will be entirely written in C++ instead of C.
Is it a good move? Ask the gcc developers!
More on, one can think that it will be harder to build gcc (as it's easier to find C compilers than C++ compilers on different architectures), but to build gcc you need another gcc anyway, cross-compiling it on a different machine if needed.
So, IMHO, nothing to see here.
Ciao!
 
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James Kuyper
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      08-22-2012
On 08/22/2012 01:34 PM, lovecreatesbeauty wrote:
> Hello! Wise people!
>
>
> Just read the shock news[1][2] that GCC is re-implementing in C++ and C will be discarded ( deprecated ? : )
>
> But still not very clear on it.
>
> . does it mean C++ is better than C?


No, it means the developers of gcc think it's a better language for that
application. They might have a different opinion for other kinds of
applications. Their opinion might or might not be correct.

> . the re-implemention involves which one(s): C compiler, C++ compiler, and Java, Fortran ..?


gcc is the Gnu Compiler Collection; that implies to me that the correct
answer is likely to be "all of the above (and others too)".

> . what will the man who said "C++ is horrible language" and his related linux project do?


He'll probably say that gcc has made a horrible mistake. He might or
might not be correct. Keep in mind that people who go to extremes in
support or opposition to a given language are seldom reliable judges of
such issues.
 
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Angel
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      08-22-2012
On 2012-08-22, James Kuyper <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On 08/22/2012 01:34 PM, lovecreatesbeauty wrote:
>> Hello! Wise people!
>>
>>
>> Just read the shock news[1][2] that GCC is re-implementing in C++ and C
>> will be discarded ( deprecated ? : )
>>
>> But still not very clear on it.
>>
>> . does it mean C++ is better than C?

>
> No, it means the developers of gcc think it's a better language for that
> application. They might have a different opinion for other kinds of
> applications. Their opinion might or might not be correct.
>
>> . the re-implemention involves which one(s): C compiler, C++ compiler,
>> and Java, Fortran ..?

>
> gcc is the Gnu Compiler Collection; that implies to me that the correct
> answer is likely to be "all of the above (and others too)".
>
>> . what will the man who said "C++ is horrible language" and his related
>> linux project do?

>
> He'll probably say that gcc has made a horrible mistake. He might or
> might not be correct. Keep in mind that people who go to extremes in
> support or opposition to a given language are seldom reliable judges of
> such issues.


Nice diplomatic answer. I fear it will be wasted on the thread starter
though, this guy is so obviously trolling it's not even funny.


--
"C provides a programmer with more than enough rope to hang himself.
C++ provides a firing squad, blindfold and last cigarette."
- seen in comp.lang.c
 
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Keith Thompson
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      08-22-2012
lovecreatesbeauty <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> Just read the shock news[1][2] that GCC is re-implementing in C++ and
> C will be discarded ( deprecated ? : )

[...]

As far as I know, the only thing changing is the implementation
language. It has nothing to do with the languages that gcc
can compile, and there is no indication of C being discarded or
deprecated other than as the implementation language for gcc itself.

I have no comment on whether this is a good idea, but it's not what
you're implying it is.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Will write code for food.
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
 
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Malcolm McLean
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      08-22-2012
בתאריך יום רביעי, 22 באוגוסט 2012 20:08:08 UTC+1, מאת Keith Thompson:
> lovecreatesbeauty <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>
> I have no comment on whether this is a good idea, but it's not what
> you're implying it is.
>
>

When any major program moves from C to another language it's something of a
disappointment to regs of this newgroup. Particularly when it's the compiler
in which a lot of C programs themselves are compiled.
But it's an outlier. The general trend is that C++ use is down, C use is
holding up.
 
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BartC
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      08-22-2012


"Malcolm McLean" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> בתאריך יום רביעי, 22 באוגוסט 2012 20:08:08 UTC+1, מאת Keith Thompson:
>> lovecreatesbeauty <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>>
>> I have no comment on whether this is a good idea, but it's not what
>> you're implying it is.
>>
>>

> When any major program moves from C to another language it's something of
> a
> disappointment to regs of this newgroup. Particularly when it's the
> compiler
> in which a lot of C programs themselves are compiled.
> But it's an outlier. The general trend is that C++ use is down, C use is
> holding up.


It's no surprise that there might be better languages for implementing
compilers with than C. Especially with much faster hardware now that allows
more productive languages to be used.

But I wouldn't have chosen C++..

--
Bartc

 
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Vincenzo Mercuri
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      08-22-2012
On 22/08/2012 21:45, BartC wrote:

[..]
>
> It's no surprise that there might be better languages for implementing
> compilers with than C. Especially with much faster hardware now that
> allows more productive languages to be used.
>
> But I wouldn't have chosen C++..
>


Don't forget that GCC itself is a set of programs that need to run
"reasonably fast". It would take very long to compile the QT libraries
if GCC was implemented in any scripting language. C++ seems to offer
the best compromise between abstractions and performance.

--
Vincenzo Mercuri
 
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Andrew Cooper
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      08-22-2012
On 22/08/2012 18:34, lovecreatesbeauty wrote:
> Hello! Wise people!
>
>
> Just read the shock news[1][2] that GCC is re-implementing in C++ and C will be discarded ( deprecated ? : )
>
> But still not very clear on it.
>
> . does it mean C++ is better than C?


C and C++ both have their place (and I indeed use each depending on the
problem needing to be solved)

The hidden question is "How much does the GCC source code look like C",
to which the answer is "not really".

The internal code has vast quantities of macros which appear to
implement OO design; so much so that the equivalent C++ code in places
is substantially cleaner and neater.

So the movement is more from "Basically C++ but implemented with the
preprocessor" to C++, which is rather less of a leap.

>
> . the re-implemention involves which one(s): C compiler, C++ compiler, and Java, Fortran ..?
>
> . what will the man who said "C++ is horrible language" and his related linux project do?


Continue to be the same because, while he is particularly vocal in his
opinion, he is correct when it comes to a kernel.

C++ is substantially easier than C for making sensible looking which
cripples performance. Two examples would be virtual functions inside a
tight loop (causing slower execution), or a liberal sprinkling of
templates (causing a swelling of code size). This is not saying that it
cant be done, but that it is making an already hard problem far harder.

~Andrew

>
>
> -vvvv-
>
> This page is meant to eventually help document the ongoing effort in the "gcc-in-cxx" branch to make gcc compile in C++ mode, i.e. as C++ source code.
>
> So, the goal of this branch is to facilitate switching GCC's implementation language to C++.
>
> -^^^^-
>
> [1] http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/gcc-in-cxx
> [2] http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/cxx-conversion
>


 
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