Velocity Reviews > dereference

# dereference

Nick Keighley
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Posts: n/a

 08-27-2012
On Aug 25, 2:53*am, Andrew Cooper <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On 24/08/2012 18:31, Kenneth Brody wrote:
>
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> > On 8/24/2012 6:00 AM, Hans Vlems wrote:
> >> On 23 aug, 03:26, "Bill Cunningham" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >>> Keith Thompson wrote:
> >>>> No, it isn't the same thing at all, and the difference is *exactly*
> >>>> what we've been discussing.

>
> >>> Ok I read Kenneth Brody's post. I guess the difference is the pointer
> >>> and
> >>> what it's pointing at.

>
> >> Imagine two drawers in a cabinet. The right drawer contains a one
> >> dollar note. The left drawer contains a note that says "one dollar
> >> note in right drawer".
> >> The content of the left drawer points to the right drawer. Only the
> >> right drawer holds the real thing (the money).

>
> > Using GC, if I remove the note from the left drawer, what happens to the
> > money in the right drawer?

>
> Depends.
>
> Is there another draw (the centre one perhaps) with a note saying "one
> dollar in the right drawer"?
>
> If yes, then nothing
> If no, then the dollar turns into free space.

not if you assume drawers are variables. That's the trouble with
strained analogies.

Keith Thompson
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Posts: n/a

 08-27-2012
Nick Keighley <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> On Aug 27, 8:11Â*am, Hans Vlems <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> On 25 aug, 05:42, Adrian Ratnapala <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> > On Saturday, 25 August 2012 01:36:12 UTC+2, Bill Cunningham Â*wrote:
>> > > Kenneth Brody wrote:

>>
>> > > > Using GC, if I remove the note from the left drawer, what
>> > > > happens to the money in the right drawer?

>>
>> > > the money in the right drawer?

>>
>> > I think the "Nothing" answer was better. Â*I think the right drawer
>> > doesn't have a note saying "one dollar in left drawer". Â*Rather it
>> > has a note saying "Money, left drawer", where it is previously
>> > understood that the *right* drawer contains a treasure map to
>> > finding, say, auntie Rohini's life savings.

>
> <snip>
>
>> The right hand drawer is not a pointer. It is simply a location
>> holding a value.

>
> sounds like a distinction without a difference

In the analogy, the drawers are objects, and the note in the left
drawer is a pointer value.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Will write code for food.
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

James Kuyper
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Posts: n/a

 08-27-2012
On 08/26/2012 05:46 PM, Adrian Ratnapala wrote:
....
> ... the only reason I care is that an unusually sharp newbie is asking pointed questions.

Bill is not a newbie. He's very carefully (some would say suspiciously)
maintained exactly his current nearly-complete lack of understanding of
those questions. The only way he could be considered sharp is if he's
faking his ignorance, which is in fact what many people think he's
doing. I'd like to apply Hanlon's Razor to him, but it's been a long
time since I felt comfortable doing so.
--
James Kuyper

Guest
Posts: n/a

 08-27-2012

> not if you assume drawers are variables. That's the trouble with
> strained analogies.

When I read it, I thought of drawers as patches of memory, each untyped, but of big enough store at least a pointer. I don't think that's such a strained analogy.

Guest
Posts: n/a

 08-27-2012

> Bill is not a newbie. He's very carefully (some would say suspiciously)
> maintained exactly his current nearly-complete lack of understanding of

Well I have only been hear about a week, so I am the newbie.

> those questions. The only way he could be considered sharp is if he's
> faking his ignorance, which is in fact what many people think he's

Well, I am starting to share this suspicion; I think his questions are genuinely sharp; which makes him look like some kind of white-hat troll trying to increase the educational value of this list.

> doing. I'd like to apply Hanlon's Razor to him, but it's been a long
> time since I felt comfortable doing so.

Well I suppose the "white-hat" thing might excuse him from "malice".

James Kuyper
Guest
Posts: n/a

 08-27-2012
On 08/27/2012 01:38 PM, Adrian Ratnapala wrote:
>
>> Bill is not a newbie. He's very carefully (some would say suspiciously)
>> maintained exactly his current nearly-complete lack of understanding of

>
> Well I have only been hear about a week, so I am the newbie.
>
>
>> those questions. The only way he could be considered sharp is if he's
>> faking his ignorance, which is in fact what many people think he's

>
> Well, I am starting to share this suspicion; I think his questions are genuinely sharp; which makes him look like some kind of white-hat troll trying to increase the educational value of this list.
>
>> doing. I'd like to apply Hanlon's Razor to him, but it's been a long
>> time since I felt comfortable doing so.

>
> Well I suppose the "white-hat" thing might excuse him from "malice".

I've seen nothing to suggest he deserves a "white-hat" designation. His
questions generally reflect a great deal of confusion about the C
language, without being worded in such a way as to shed light on those
points of confusion. The malicious interpretation of his actions is
based upon the assumption that he enjoys seeing people waste their time
trying to explain things to him. He responds with comments saying that
he finally understands, but in those very same messages he says things
making it clear that he does not (except possibly in the negative sense
that he does understand, and deliberately writes his response to suggest
that he does not).

In the past, he's claimed to have a medical condition that requires him
to take drugs which have the side-effect of making it impossible for him
to learn anything. This is the only non-malicious interpretation I've
ever seen for his actions that makes any sense. In that case, it's a
waste of his time to try to learn anything as complicated as C, and it's
a waste of everyone else's time to try to teach it to him. However, by
the same token he's also incapable of learning that it's a waste of his
time (to be fair, some of the people who've been trying to help him seem
equally incapable of learning it). It all holds together logically, but
I've been finding it increasingly difficult to believe.

Guest
Posts: n/a

 08-27-2012
> waste of his time to try to learn anything as complicated as C, and it's

C is not complicated.

James Kuyper
Guest
Posts: n/a

 08-27-2012
On 08/27/2012 03:57 PM, Adrian Ratnapala wrote:
>> waste of his time to try to learn anything as complicated as C, and it's

>
> C is not complicated.

It's more complicated than, for instance, tic-tac-toe, which seems to be
about the most complicated thing I can think of that he could reasonably
be expected to understand, based upon past experience. I'm not saying
he's capable of developing any meaningful strategy while playing the
game, but I do think he's capable of remembering the rules long enough
to play at least one game, possibly several. I would not recommend
assuming that he'll still remember the rules the next day, though he's
likely to claim that he does.

extremely cruel learning disability, or he's a moderately clever troll.
In the first case my "nasty" description is entirely accurate; in the
second it accurately describes the false front he's been projecting -
either way, I stand by it.

Hans Vlems
Guest
Posts: n/a

 08-28-2012
On 27 aug, 12:24, Keith Thompson <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Nick Keighley <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> > On Aug 27, 8:11*am, Hans Vlems <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >> On 25 aug, 05:42, Adrian Ratnapala <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >> > On Saturday, 25 August 2012 01:36:12 UTC+2, Bill Cunningham *wrote:
> >> > > Kenneth Brody wrote:

>
> >> > > > Using GC, if I remove the note from the left drawer, what
> >> > > > happens to the money in the right drawer?

>
> >> > > the money in the right drawer?

>
> >> > I think the "Nothing" answer was better. *I think the right drawer
> >> > doesn't have a note saying "one dollar in left drawer". *Rather it
> >> > has a note saying "Money, left drawer", where it is previously
> >> > understood that the *right* drawer contains a treasure map to
> >> > finding, say, auntie Rohini's life savings.

>
> > <snip>

>
> >> The right hand drawer is not a pointer. It is simply a location
> >> holding a value.

>
> > sounds like a distinction without a difference

>
> In the analogy, the drawers are objects, and the note in the left
> drawer is a pointer value.
>
> --
> Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) (E-Mail Removed) *<http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
> * * Will write code for food.
> "We must do something. *This is something. *Therefore, we must do this."
> * * -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

The drawers are storage units i.e. memory locations. The analogy is
quite simple, like the way computers work