«

"R. Giggs." <> wrote in message
news:UKgZr.6333$4...
>
> "R. Giggs." <> wrote in message
> news:KxgZr.17423$4...
>>
>> "Paul" <> wrote in message
>> news:k141lr$80j$...
>>> R. Giggs. wrote:
>>>
>>>>> WELL GLORY BE I HAVE DONE IT, DISK IS BLANK.!!!
>>>>> Seem the recycler was turned back on somehow or that drive.
>>>>> But anyway now I can try some cloning software!!
>>>>> But there ia a partition on the source drive to complicate things.
>>>>
>>>> But it has come back again Even though I have turned off system
>>>> restore on that drive
>>>> and also turned off recycling!1
>>>
>>> System Volume Information is used on an OS like Windows XP, for
>>> restore point tracking. It's normally off limits on NTFS, but
>>> might be visible inside if using FAT32 (because FAT32 doesn't support
>>> permissions the same way NTFS does).
>>>
>>> If you disable System Restore completely, I don't think it stops
>>> the creation of System Volume Information. But it might result
>>> in that folder being practically empty.
>>>
>>> On your "Trash Can", you can attempt to find "Properties", and
>>> there would probably be an option for "immediate delete". That
>>> removes the Trash Can as a "staging area" for deleting. That might
>>> allow Recycler to be avoided. But I can imagine the system
>>> creating a new one again, at the drop of a hat.
>>>
>>> There are many other flavors of trash folders, and Recycler is just
>>> one of many different things I've found lurking down there. I think
>>> even Windows 8 has a new name for that folder.
>>>
>>> Many utilities that copy from one disk to another, don't copy
>>> certain files. I don't think Robocopy likes to copy stuff like SVI.
>>> So you may find, that removing stuff like that entirely,
>>> isn't necessary to achieving a desired end.
>>>
>>> Example of using Robocopy:
>>>
>>> robocopy L:\ F:\ /mir /copy:datso /dcopy:t /r:3 /w:2 /zb /np /tee /v
>>> /log:robocopy_l_to_f.log
>>>
>>> Note that my example command is *very dangerous*, in that I specified
>>> the "mirror"
>>> option, which basically erases the destination drive "F:" in the
>>> example. If you
>>> make a mistake, as I've done twice now, and F: happened to be the wrong
>>> target
>>> letter, you can lose all the data on the target partition very rapidly.
>>> And since
>>> the command is also copying and writing data, it writes all over things
>>> that
>>> could have been used to effect a recovery. In summary, before using
>>> that example format of command, be absolutely sure of the operands.
>>>
>>> Copying the files from C: partition, is *not* sufficient to make
>>> a bootable partition. Up near the front of the partition, is the
>>> partition boot sector. Not to be confused with the MBR. You can
>>> put a partition boot sector back with "fixboot C:" in recovery
>>> console. The MBR boot code can be fixed with "fixmbr". So you
>>> can piece together a boot partition, but it takes a bit of additional
>>> work. The boot flag may need to be set on the partition as well, if
>>> you haven't taken care of that detail. Using a partition manager,
>>> or a cloning software, is likely to look out for details like that.
>>>
>>> On primary partitions, they're stored in four "slots" in sector 0.
>>> If, when cloning, you take a boot partition from slot 1 on one disk,
>>> and store the partition in slot 2 on the MBR of the other disk, then
>>> the boot.ini information will be incorrect (you can fix that with
>>> a text editor). On Partition Magic, that software avoids the issue,
>>> by making sure the partition goes in the same slot number (whether
>>> you really wanted it that way or not). So there are plenty of little
>>> details to worry about.
>>>
>>> Moving Win98 is worse, because there is something stored in the
>>> front of the partition, that's size or position sensitive (I'm
>>> not sure of the details). And I don't know how you'd fix that
>>> "the hacker way". Again, a proper Partition Manager or Cloner software,
>>> would check for Win98, and bodge the necessary field(s) in the
>>> partition for you. I've never tried moving Win98 here, as it's just
>>> as easy to reinstall it if I really wanted it.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>> Thanks for that Paul, just a progress up date first, I am now as I type
>> 97% complete in creating
>> the cloned disk!! So the system volume info and recovery seem to be
>> behind me now ( I hope!!).
>>
>> I have not looked up the disks yet but I will first try just booting one
>> the original drive by itself.
>>
>> Then I will try and swop it for the cloned one and see what happens, I
>> might have to change some
>> jumpers but I have not looked intot hat yet.
>>
>> Clone completed in 58 mins 50 seconds!!
>>
>> So I am about ready to go!!
>>
>> Yep I have a F (new recovery) and G: (new system drive) - very
>> exciiting!!
>>
>> I need to have a little calm down before I do any else now!!
>>
>> As I said I did manage to 'clone' my win98 system to another drive and
>> boot from it,
>> not sure how I managed it but it did work I can assure you!! NOt sure how
>> I did it
>> but I don't recally doing any more than a copy and paste!! Was a long
>> time ago though
>> so I can't remember too clearly.
>>
>> Any way I will leave it at that now and have a bit of a think before I
>> try to roceed further!
>
> Well I have found the manual (I think) so now I just need to have look
> at the jumper on the drive. Hopefully it will be cable select which means
> I just have to pull the cable off both drives and just stick the top one
> on the
> cloned drive and away I go (in theory!!).
>>
>
>

Well I have jus done a normal reboot with the drives as they were just to
make sure
I can at least do that. Next step is to try and boot with just the cloned
drive in!!

"Paul" <> wrote in message
news:k141lr$80j$...
> R. Giggs. wrote:
>
>>> WELL GLORY BE I HAVE DONE IT, DISK IS BLANK.!!!
>>> Seem the recycler was turned back on somehow or that drive.
>>> But anyway now I can try some cloning software!!
>>> But there ia a partition on the source drive to complicate things.
>>
>> But it has come back again Even though I have turned off system
>> restore on that drive
>> and also turned off recycling!1
>
> System Volume Information is used on an OS like Windows XP, for
> restore point tracking. It's normally off limits on NTFS, but
> might be visible inside if using FAT32 (because FAT32 doesn't support
> permissions the same way NTFS does).
>
> If you disable System Restore completely, I don't think it stops
> the creation of System Volume Information. But it might result
> in that folder being practically empty.
>
> On your "Trash Can", you can attempt to find "Properties", and
> there would probably be an option for "immediate delete". That
> removes the Trash Can as a "staging area" for deleting. That might
> allow Recycler to be avoided. But I can imagine the system
> creating a new one again, at the drop of a hat.
>
> There are many other flavors of trash folders, and Recycler is just
> one of many different things I've found lurking down there. I think
> even Windows 8 has a new name for that folder.
>
> Many utilities that copy from one disk to another, don't copy
> certain files. I don't think Robocopy likes to copy stuff like SVI.
> So you may find, that removing stuff like that entirely,
> isn't necessary to achieving a desired end.
>
> Example of using Robocopy:
>
> robocopy L:\ F:\ /mir /copy:datso /dcopy:t /r:3 /w:2 /zb /np /tee /v
> /log:robocopy_l_to_f.log
>
> Note that my example command is *very dangerous*, in that I specified the
> "mirror"
> option, which basically erases the destination drive "F:" in the example.
> If you
> make a mistake, as I've done twice now, and F: happened to be the wrong
> target
> letter, you can lose all the data on the target partition very rapidly.
> And since
> the command is also copying and writing data, it writes all over things
> that
> could have been used to effect a recovery. In summary, before using
> that example format of command, be absolutely sure of the operands.
>
> Copying the files from C: partition, is *not* sufficient to make
> a bootable partition. Up near the front of the partition, is the
> partition boot sector. Not to be confused with the MBR. You can
> put a partition boot sector back with "fixboot C:" in recovery
> console. The MBR boot code can be fixed with "fixmbr". So you
> can piece together a boot partition, but it takes a bit of additional
> work. The boot flag may need to be set on the partition as well, if
> you haven't taken care of that detail. Using a partition manager,
> or a cloning software, is likely to look out for details like that.
>
> On primary partitions, they're stored in four "slots" in sector 0.
> If, when cloning, you take a boot partition from slot 1 on one disk,
> and store the partition in slot 2 on the MBR of the other disk, then
> the boot.ini information will be incorrect (you can fix that with
> a text editor). On Partition Magic, that software avoids the issue,
> by making sure the partition goes in the same slot number (whether
> you really wanted it that way or not). So there are plenty of little
> details to worry about.
>
> Moving Win98 is worse, because there is something stored in the
> front of the partition, that's size or position sensitive (I'm
> not sure of the details). And I don't know how you'd fix that
> "the hacker way". Again, a proper Partition Manager or Cloner software,
> would check for Win98, and bodge the necessary field(s) in the
> partition for you. I've never tried moving Win98 here, as it's just
> as easy to reinstall it if I really wanted it.
>
> Paul

lol I had to download you rmessage again because I am running on the gb
drive, last time I was on the 80gb drive, which means success!!!

I will reply to the end of the thread now!!

"R. Giggs." <> wrote in message
news:LUgZr.29968$4...
>
> "R. Giggs." <> wrote in message
> news:UKgZr.6333$4...
>>
>> "R. Giggs." <> wrote in message
>> news:KxgZr.17423$4...
>>>
>>> "Paul" <> wrote in message
>>> news:k141lr$80j$...
>>>> R. Giggs. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> WELL GLORY BE I HAVE DONE IT, DISK IS BLANK.!!!
>>>>>> Seem the recycler was turned back on somehow or that drive.
>>>>>> But anyway now I can try some cloning software!!
>>>>>> But there ia a partition on the source drive to complicate things.
>>>>>
>>>>> But it has come back again Even though I have turned off system
>>>>> restore on that drive
>>>>> and also turned off recycling!1
>>>>
>>>> System Volume Information is used on an OS like Windows XP, for
>>>> restore point tracking. It's normally off limits on NTFS, but
>>>> might be visible inside if using FAT32 (because FAT32 doesn't support
>>>> permissions the same way NTFS does).
>>>>
>>>> If you disable System Restore completely, I don't think it stops
>>>> the creation of System Volume Information. But it might result
>>>> in that folder being practically empty.
>>>>
>>>> On your "Trash Can", you can attempt to find "Properties", and
>>>> there would probably be an option for "immediate delete". That
>>>> removes the Trash Can as a "staging area" for deleting. That might
>>>> allow Recycler to be avoided. But I can imagine the system
>>>> creating a new one again, at the drop of a hat.
>>>>
>>>> There are many other flavors of trash folders, and Recycler is just
>>>> one of many different things I've found lurking down there. I think
>>>> even Windows 8 has a new name for that folder.
>>>>
>>>> Many utilities that copy from one disk to another, don't copy
>>>> certain files. I don't think Robocopy likes to copy stuff like SVI.
>>>> So you may find, that removing stuff like that entirely,
>>>> isn't necessary to achieving a desired end.
>>>>
>>>> Example of using Robocopy:
>>>>
>>>> robocopy L:\ F:\ /mir /copy:datso /dcopy:t /r:3 /w:2 /zb /np /tee /v
>>>> /log:robocopy_l_to_f.log
>>>>
>>>> Note that my example command is *very dangerous*, in that I specified
>>>> the "mirror"
>>>> option, which basically erases the destination drive "F:" in the
>>>> example. If you
>>>> make a mistake, as I've done twice now, and F: happened to be the wrong
>>>> target
>>>> letter, you can lose all the data on the target partition very rapidly.
>>>> And since
>>>> the command is also copying and writing data, it writes all over things
>>>> that
>>>> could have been used to effect a recovery. In summary, before using
>>>> that example format of command, be absolutely sure of the operands.
>>>>
>>>> Copying the files from C: partition, is *not* sufficient to make
>>>> a bootable partition. Up near the front of the partition, is the
>>>> partition boot sector. Not to be confused with the MBR. You can
>>>> put a partition boot sector back with "fixboot C:" in recovery
>>>> console. The MBR boot code can be fixed with "fixmbr". So you
>>>> can piece together a boot partition, but it takes a bit of additional
>>>> work. The boot flag may need to be set on the partition as well, if
>>>> you haven't taken care of that detail. Using a partition manager,
>>>> or a cloning software, is likely to look out for details like that.
>>>>
>>>> On primary partitions, they're stored in four "slots" in sector 0.
>>>> If, when cloning, you take a boot partition from slot 1 on one disk,
>>>> and store the partition in slot 2 on the MBR of the other disk, then
>>>> the boot.ini information will be incorrect (you can fix that with
>>>> a text editor). On Partition Magic, that software avoids the issue,
>>>> by making sure the partition goes in the same slot number (whether
>>>> you really wanted it that way or not). So there are plenty of little
>>>> details to worry about.
>>>>
>>>> Moving Win98 is worse, because there is something stored in the
>>>> front of the partition, that's size or position sensitive (I'm
>>>> not sure of the details). And I don't know how you'd fix that
>>>> "the hacker way". Again, a proper Partition Manager or Cloner software,
>>>> would check for Win98, and bodge the necessary field(s) in the
>>>> partition for you. I've never tried moving Win98 here, as it's just
>>>> as easy to reinstall it if I really wanted it.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Thanks for that Paul, just a progress up date first, I am now as I type
>>> 97% complete in creating
>>> the cloned disk!! So the system volume info and recovery seem to be
>>> behind me now ( I hope!!).
>>>
>>> I have not looked up the disks yet but I will first try just booting one
>>> the original drive by itself.
>>>
>>> Then I will try and swop it for the cloned one and see what happens, I
>>> might have to change some
>>> jumpers but I have not looked intot hat yet.
>>>
>>> Clone completed in 58 mins 50 seconds!!
>>>
>>> So I am about ready to go!!
>>>
>>> Yep I have a F (new recovery) and G: (new system drive) - very
>>> exciiting!!
>>>
>>> I need to have a little calm down before I do any else now!!
>>>
>>> As I said I did manage to 'clone' my win98 system to another drive and
>>> boot from it,
>>> not sure how I managed it but it did work I can assure you!! NOt sure
>>> how I did it
>>> but I don't recally doing any more than a copy and paste!! Was a long
>>> time ago though
>>> so I can't remember too clearly.
>>>
>>> Any way I will leave it at that now and have a bit of a think before I
>>> try to roceed further!
>>
>> Well I have found the manual (I think) so now I just need to have look
>> at the jumper on the drive. Hopefully it will be cable select which means
>> I just have to pull the cable off both drives and just stick the top one
>> on the
>> cloned drive and away I go (in theory!!).
>>>
>>
>>
>
> Well I have jus done a normal reboot with the drives as they were just to
> make sure
> I can at least do that. Next step is to try and boot with just the cloned
> drive in!!
>

SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!

I am not running on the cloned drive, the 250 gb drive I cloned to!!

So that is briliant. Luckilly the 250gb drive was on cable select so I was a
simple
case of moving the topof the cable (convieniently marked master!) to the
250gb drive and leaving the middle slave connector empty. Didn't even have
to take the
PC off the ground, which is a tricky operation because the video card is
loose in it's
slot and moving it can cause beepy problems.

Another bonus is that it seems to run faster as in boot up which is I think
expected as
the figures I have are 133 Mbytes/sec max transfer rate for the 250gb drive
( Buffer to/from Host (max.) 133 Mbytes/sec against
61 MBytes/sec (Sustained data rate (MB/sec) 61.1 - 29.6 ) for the old drive.

So that is basically twice as fast I believe and it did seem to boot up
nearly twice as fast!!



So this is just great, I have an instantly bootable back up drive, I can
switch to it
in a minute or two, just move the master connector and I should be away!!

For me that takes a lot of stress out of buggering about with the PC, at
least as
far as the software is concerned anyway, still possible to bugger the
hardware up
as I well know lol.


I would just like to thank you Paull for all your help, you have been
brilliant, that dive
cloning software worked a dream and very easy to use, once I sorted out that
shadow copy thing, which reminds me, I have just turned that back on and the
system restore
thing and recycle bin thing, nearly forgot about those, I need to remember
to restart them
on my other drives some time (bound to for get lol),

Anyway thanks once again for ou help, I think I wil now test out how well my
system
runs on this faster drive and if I notice the difference!!!

"Paul" <> wrote in message
news:k141lr$80j$...
> R. Giggs. wrote:
>
>>> WELL GLORY BE I HAVE DONE IT, DISK IS BLANK.!!!
>>> Seem the recycler was turned back on somehow or that drive.
>>> But anyway now I can try some cloning software!!
>>> But there ia a partition on the source drive to complicate things.
>>
>> But it has come back again Even though I have turned off system
>> restore on that drive
>> and also turned off recycling!1
>
> System Volume Information is used on an OS like Windows XP, for
> restore point tracking. It's normally off limits on NTFS, but
> might be visible inside if using FAT32 (because FAT32 doesn't support
> permissions the same way NTFS does).
>
> If you disable System Restore completely, I don't think it stops
> the creation of System Volume Information. But it might result
> in that folder being practically empty.
>
> On your "Trash Can", you can attempt to find "Properties", and
> there would probably be an option for "immediate delete". That
> removes the Trash Can as a "staging area" for deleting. That might
> allow Recycler to be avoided. But I can imagine the system
> creating a new one again, at the drop of a hat.
>
> There are many other flavors of trash folders, and Recycler is just
> one of many different things I've found lurking down there. I think
> even Windows 8 has a new name for that folder.
>
> Many utilities that copy from one disk to another, don't copy
> certain files. I don't think Robocopy likes to copy stuff like SVI.
> So you may find, that removing stuff like that entirely,
> isn't necessary to achieving a desired end.
>
> Example of using Robocopy:
>
> robocopy L:\ F:\ /mir /copy:datso /dcopy:t /r:3 /w:2 /zb /np /tee /v
> /log:robocopy_l_to_f.log
>
> Note that my example command is *very dangerous*, in that I specified the
> "mirror"
> option, which basically erases the destination drive "F:" in the example.
> If you
> make a mistake, as I've done twice now, and F: happened to be the wrong
> target
> letter, you can lose all the data on the target partition very rapidly.
> And since
> the command is also copying and writing data, it writes all over things
> that
> could have been used to effect a recovery. In summary, before using
> that example format of command, be absolutely sure of the operands.
>
> Copying the files from C: partition, is *not* sufficient to make
> a bootable partition. Up near the front of the partition, is the
> partition boot sector. Not to be confused with the MBR. You can
> put a partition boot sector back with "fixboot C:" in recovery
> console. The MBR boot code can be fixed with "fixmbr". So you
> can piece together a boot partition, but it takes a bit of additional
> work. The boot flag may need to be set on the partition as well, if
> you haven't taken care of that detail. Using a partition manager,
> or a cloning software, is likely to look out for details like that.
>
> On primary partitions, they're stored in four "slots" in sector 0.
> If, when cloning, you take a boot partition from slot 1 on one disk,
> and store the partition in slot 2 on the MBR of the other disk, then
> the boot.ini information will be incorrect (you can fix that with
> a text editor). On Partition Magic, that software avoids the issue,
> by making sure the partition goes in the same slot number (whether
> you really wanted it that way or not). So there are plenty of little
> details to worry about.
>
> Moving Win98 is worse, because there is something stored in the
> front of the partition, that's size or position sensitive (I'm
> not sure of the details). And I don't know how you'd fix that
> "the hacker way". Again, a proper Partition Manager or Cloner software,
> would check for Win98, and bodge the necessary field(s) in the
> partition for you. I've never tried moving Win98 here, as it's just
> as easy to reinstall it if I really wanted it.
>
> Paul

Actually thinnking back on it I may well I have done something with
fixmbr

I might have done something like shown on thsi disturbingly long
url.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?hl=en...9,r:0,s:0,i:71

However I got it working somehow, so I either did that or my copy just
happened to
put the files in the right places.

My machine is definitely a lot beter boot up time is almost halved and many
other
things are faster where disk access is involved.

"R. Giggs." <> wrote in message
news:smoZr.84$4...
>
> "Paul" <> wrote in message
> news:k141lr$80j$...
>> R. Giggs. wrote:
>>
>>>> WELL GLORY BE I HAVE DONE IT, DISK IS BLANK.!!!
>>>> Seem the recycler was turned back on somehow or that drive.
>>>> But anyway now I can try some cloning software!!
>>>> But there ia a partition on the source drive to complicate things.
>>>
>>> But it has come back again Even though I have turned off system
>>> restore on that drive
>>> and also turned off recycling!1
>>
>> System Volume Information is used on an OS like Windows XP, for
>> restore point tracking. It's normally off limits on NTFS, but
>> might be visible inside if using FAT32 (because FAT32 doesn't support
>> permissions the same way NTFS does).
>>
>> If you disable System Restore completely, I don't think it stops
>> the creation of System Volume Information. But it might result
>> in that folder being practically empty.
>>
>> On your "Trash Can", you can attempt to find "Properties", and
>> there would probably be an option for "immediate delete". That
>> removes the Trash Can as a "staging area" for deleting. That might
>> allow Recycler to be avoided. But I can imagine the system
>> creating a new one again, at the drop of a hat.
>>
>> There are many other flavors of trash folders, and Recycler is just
>> one of many different things I've found lurking down there. I think
>> even Windows 8 has a new name for that folder.
>>
>> Many utilities that copy from one disk to another, don't copy
>> certain files. I don't think Robocopy likes to copy stuff like SVI.
>> So you may find, that removing stuff like that entirely,
>> isn't necessary to achieving a desired end.
>>
>> Example of using Robocopy:
>>
>> robocopy L:\ F:\ /mir /copy:datso /dcopy:t /r:3 /w:2 /zb /np /tee /v
>> /log:robocopy_l_to_f.log
>>
>> Note that my example command is *very dangerous*, in that I specified the
>> "mirror"
>> option, which basically erases the destination drive "F:" in the example.
>> If you
>> make a mistake, as I've done twice now, and F: happened to be the wrong
>> target
>> letter, you can lose all the data on the target partition very rapidly.
>> And since
>> the command is also copying and writing data, it writes all over things
>> that
>> could have been used to effect a recovery. In summary, before using
>> that example format of command, be absolutely sure of the operands.
>>
>> Copying the files from C: partition, is *not* sufficient to make
>> a bootable partition. Up near the front of the partition, is the
>> partition boot sector. Not to be confused with the MBR. You can
>> put a partition boot sector back with "fixboot C:" in recovery
>> console. The MBR boot code can be fixed with "fixmbr". So you
>> can piece together a boot partition, but it takes a bit of additional
>> work. The boot flag may need to be set on the partition as well, if
>> you haven't taken care of that detail. Using a partition manager,
>> or a cloning software, is likely to look out for details like that.
>>
>> On primary partitions, they're stored in four "slots" in sector 0.
>> If, when cloning, you take a boot partition from slot 1 on one disk,
>> and store the partition in slot 2 on the MBR of the other disk, then
>> the boot.ini information will be incorrect (you can fix that with
>> a text editor). On Partition Magic, that software avoids the issue,
>> by making sure the partition goes in the same slot number (whether
>> you really wanted it that way or not). So there are plenty of little
>> details to worry about.
>>
>> Moving Win98 is worse, because there is something stored in the
>> front of the partition, that's size or position sensitive (I'm
>> not sure of the details). And I don't know how you'd fix that
>> "the hacker way". Again, a proper Partition Manager or Cloner software,
>> would check for Win98, and bodge the necessary field(s) in the
>> partition for you. I've never tried moving Win98 here, as it's just
>> as easy to reinstall it if I really wanted it.
>>
>> Paul
>
> Actually thinnking back on it I may well I have done something with
> fixmbr
>
> I might have done something like shown on thsi disturbingly long
> url.
>
> http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?hl=en...9,r:0,s:0,i:71
>
> However I got it working somehow, so I either did that or my copy just
> happened to
> put the files in the right places.
>
> My machine is definitely a lot beter boot up time is almost halved and
> many other
> things are faster where disk access is involved.
>

Well everything is working fine, the only issue if the new driver is a bit
noisier than the old one, it
a bit of a rumbler. I also have a 500gb USB drive, if that is quiter I might
repeat the operation and
clone this drive to the 500GB driver and use that one.
Mind you before I cleaner the CPU heat sink out the noise of the fan drown
all noise out
apart form it self, it sounded like a jumbo taking off!!