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In article <k06frj$s9a$>, says...
>
> XP 32-bit. Can anyone shed some light on stable options
> for processing raw photos?
>
> Photos from Nikon and Panasonic cameras.
>
> No Photoshop.

Is there any reason you don't want to run Photoshop Elements 10?

| Is there any reason you don't want to run Photoshop Elements 10?
|

I don't know. I'm looking for recommendations from
people who work with raw photos. My only experience
with PS Elements was a few years ago. It was junk.
$100 for what was actually just a repackaging of the
shareware PS3. But it may be very different now.

It's hard to compare these different programs, so I
was looking to narrow down the list of possibilities to
programs that experienced photographers recommend.
I have Paint Shop Pro 5 and the GIMP, which covers
general graphic editing. The need is specifically for
raw editing.

In general I'd prefer to avoid Adobe. Their software
is *very* bloated and *very* expensive. But at this
point I'm not ruling out anything. It sounds like everyone
here is using Adobe products. No one has commented
on UFRaw, RawTherapee, or anything else open-source.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 22:38:50 -0400, "Mayayana"
<> wrote:

>| Is there any reason you don't want to run Photoshop Elements 10?
>|
>
> I don't know. I'm looking for recommendations from
>people who work with raw photos. My only experience
>with PS Elements was a few years ago. It was junk.
>$100 for what was actually just a repackaging of the
>shareware PS3. But it may be very different now.
>
> It's hard to compare these different programs, so I
>was looking to narrow down the list of possibilities to
>programs that experienced photographers recommend.
>I have Paint Shop Pro 5 and the GIMP, which covers
>general graphic editing. The need is specifically for
>raw editing.
>
> In general I'd prefer to avoid Adobe. Their software
>is *very* bloated and *very* expensive. But at this
>point I'm not ruling out anything. It sounds like everyone
>here is using Adobe products. No one has commented
>on UFRaw, RawTherapee, or anything else open-source.

I have and use Adobe CS4, but I also have Elements 9.0. My daughter
doesn't have CSanything, so I bought E 9.0 and installed it on both my
computer and her computer. (Adobe allows two installs of Elements).
She's learning E9.0, and I have it so I can help her in this process.

I'm not going to try to make you like Elements, but it's not "junk"
and it does much more than Gimp. Less than CSX, but E 10.0 has the
RAW capability you want, and it's available for less than $100. If
you buy a copy of E 9.0 on eBay, it's much less and has the RAW
capability. There's very little I can do in CS4 that I can't do in
Elements 9.0.

Lightroom, of course, also has RAW capability but you'd have to learn
a new series of steps in general editing to take advantage of LR.
Jumping from Gimp to Elements would be easier than jumping from Gimp
to LR. A big factor in the choice, though, would be
cataloging/keywording aspect of LR. If this is of interest, it might
sway the decision.

When you say a program is "junk", it doesn't mean anything other than
a general aversion to it. If you want helpful information, you have
to provide some information about what you think is lacking. Those of
us who have some experience with the program can then address your
specific comments.



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

"Mayayana" <> wrote:

>| Try here:
>| <http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=5389>
>|
>
> That's something I didn't know about, but how
>does it apply to raw photo editors? UFRaw and
>RawTherapee can both handle different formats.
>I can open a Nikon .NEF in either, for instance.
>It's just that the programs themselves don't seem
>to be stable. Would conversion to the neutral format
>help with that?


I don't know, but I suggested it as another approach, one that you
haven't tried yet.

There's also Lightroom, but it isn't free and there's no guarantee it
will be stable on your hardware. You might like to try increasing
your computer's RAM.

All graphics applications thrive on RAM, the more the better. The
instability may happen when you run out of RAM and the application has
to run via swap files (virtual RAM) on your hard disk.

Rich <> wrote:

>Paint Shop Pro is a good program but...they are probably only up to the
>Nikon D200 in terms of raw support right now.


But if it reads .dng files, use Adobe DNG converter (free).

In article <k074ng$8dt$>, Mayayana
<> wrote:

> | Is there any reason you don't want to run Photoshop Elements 10?
>
> I don't know. I'm looking for recommendations from
> people who work with raw photos. My only experience
> with PS Elements was a few years ago. It was junk.
> $100 for what was actually just a repackaging of the
> shareware PS3. But it may be very different now.

photoshop elements is the same as standard photoshop but without the
stuff pros need, such as cmyk, lab, etc. non-pros more than likely
won't ever miss any of that.

> It's hard to compare these different programs, so I
> was looking to narrow down the list of possibilities to
> programs that experienced photographers recommend.
> I have Paint Shop Pro 5 and the GIMP, which covers
> general graphic editing. The need is specifically for
> raw editing.

there are trial versions, making it very easy to compare.

> In general I'd prefer to avoid Adobe. Their software
> is *very* bloated and *very* expensive.

some of their stuff is expensive while other product are not. photoshop
elements is very cheap and often bundled for free with hardware.

> But at this
> point I'm not ruling out anything. It sounds like everyone
> here is using Adobe products.

that's because adobe products are generally very, very good.

> No one has commented
> on UFRaw, RawTherapee, or anything else open-source.

most of those are crap.

In article <>, tony cooper
<> wrote:

> I'm not going to try to make you like Elements, but it's not "junk"
> and it does much more than Gimp. Less than CSX, but E 10.0 has the
> RAW capability you want, and it's available for less than $100. If
> you buy a copy of E 9.0 on eBay, it's much less and has the RAW
> capability. There's very little I can do in CS4 that I can't do in
> Elements 9.0.

that's funny. a couple of weeks ago you insisted elements was $99 after
i said it was available for less than $100. i guess you learned
something.

> Lightroom, of course, also has RAW capability but you'd have to learn
> a new series of steps in general editing to take advantage of LR.

nonsense. the raw processing is identical to photoshop. we went over
this already. it's the *same* camera raw engine as in photoshop,
including elements.

In article <>, Bruce
<> wrote:

> All graphics applications thrive on RAM, the more the better.

that part is generally true.

> The
> instability may happen when you run out of RAM and the application has
> to run via swap files (virtual RAM) on your hard disk.

that is pure nonsense. it will just be slower. stability is unaffected.

| All graphics applications thrive on RAM, the more the better. The
| instability may happen when you run out of RAM and the application has
| to run via swap files (virtual RAM) on your hard disk.
|
I actually did increase to 4 GB and put the 3 GB switch
in boot.ini, which allows software to use 3 GB on Win32.
Raw Therapee advises that. But it's still crashing.

Thanks, both of you, for sharing your opinions.
I was hoping to hear personal opinions and
experience about various things.

This is all slightly awkward in that I'm trying to help
a friend. She knows about cameras and photography.
In the long run I think she's going to want to fullest
possible range of functionality.
I know about Windows, programming and to some
extent digital graphics. I don't do much photography,
but do work with computer graphics. So I'm also interested
to learn about the general landscape of raw processing.

It's been hard for me to assess the software options,
partly because I don't know the camera settings and partly
because I'm not clear about the different raw operations.
(Maybe those are the same thing?)

My impression was that what's called "Lab" is
just basic raster functions like brightness/contrast that
are already in "normal" graphic editors. Is there any easy
explanation or list to differentiate basic raster operations
from functions unique to raw photos?

Lightroom: The latest version won't run on XP, so
that's definitely out.

About cataloguing and keywording: In general I think
I'd consider that an obstacle, personally. A surprising
number of the programs I've looked at put an Explorer
treeview on the left and then want to display thumbnails
of all photos in a folder. I don't want that sort of "help".
I don't like software that tries to "protect me from the
challenges" of navigating the filesystem.

About calling software junk: The version of Photoshop
Elements I tried was probably concurrent with PS v. 6 or
7. I called it junk because, for the price, it was. The executable
file for the program actually said it was Photoshop 3 in the
embedded version information. I'm pretty sure that PS3 was
cheap shareware. It probably sold for a lot less than $100.
(I have a brother who got PS4 for free with a scanner.)
PS3/Elements 6/7 only had one level of Undo. Old shareware
with one level of Undo for $100, being presented as a limited
version of a current product, seemed like a sneaky cheat to
me.
...But, as I said, I haven't tried Elements since that time.

>> on UFRaw, RawTherapee, or anything else open-source.

> most of those are crap.

Those two programs, at least, suffer from common drawbacks
of open-source software. The interface of RawTherapee is very
awkward. It doesn't even have a menu or right-click functionality.
On the other hand, I was looking into them because I had come
across conversations among what seemed to be professional
photographers who repeatedly recommended Raw Therapee in
particular. (Though from what I can tell, all such open source
products are actually just wrappers around a base library known
as dcraw.)