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Re: Would Ansel Adams use Photoshop?

 
 
Robert Coe
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      08-12-2012
On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 20:31:20 -0700, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
: On 2012-08-11 17:20:48 -0700, tony cooper <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
:
: > On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 16:58:37 -0700, Savageduck
: > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
: >
: >> Now here there is something "wrong". The contrast due to the strong
: >> highlights (I suspect blown highlights in the color version) needs
: >> something else to fix the image. I don't believe there is a quick NIK
: >> fix for this. I think that this is one of those times an ND Grad might
: >> have helped. Perhaps adding a grad in ACR???
: >>
: >> Was there a particular reason you went B&W with this, or was it a
: >> rescue effort?
: >
: > No, I saw it as black and white from the start. I liked the lines and
: > the diagonals of the shadows. I was out and about and saw this in
: > early morning with the sun behind the trees. I pushed it to max
: > contrast deliberately. I didn't want detail.
: >
: > I wouldn't have shot it for a color image. I don't really remember
: > the original.
: >
: >> Why do I think there might have been CA issues through the tree tops.
: >
: > I wouldn't have worried about any CA because I wasn't interested in
: > any details in the leafy portions and expected any fringing to drop
: > out.
:
: Alright then! Shot with B&W in mind from the start, so CA not an issue.
: I just feel that it could be done a little differently from the
: original RAW, it still feels like something of a "rescue" to me.
:
: What I like is, unlike many others, you are prepared to step out of
: your comfort zone and shoot for experimentation.
: It can be fun.
:
: I know this is not your high contrast line of trees with the Sun behind
: them, but is this vaguely the sort of thing you had in mind?
: < http://db.tt/FGtA4wYe >

I like Tony's trees better.

Bob
 
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Robert Coe
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      08-12-2012
On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 05:30:34 -0700, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
: On 2012-08-12 05:23:40 -0700, Robert Coe <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
:
: > On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 20:31:20 -0700, Savageduck
: > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
: > : On 2012-08-11 17:20:48 -0700, tony cooper <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
: > :
: > : > On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 16:58:37 -0700, Savageduck
: > : > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
: > : >
: > : >> Now here there is something "wrong". The contrast due to the strong
: > : >> highlights (I suspect blown highlights in the color version) needs
: > : >> something else to fix the image. I don't believe there is a quick NIK
: > : >> fix for this. I think that this is one of those times an ND Grad might
: > : >> have helped. Perhaps adding a grad in ACR???
: > : >>
: > : >> Was there a particular reason you went B&W with this, or was it a
: > : >> rescue effort?
: > : >
: > : > No, I saw it as black and white from the start. I liked the lines and
: > : > the diagonals of the shadows. I was out and about and saw this in
: > : > early morning with the sun behind the trees. I pushed it to max
: > : > contrast deliberately. I didn't want detail.
: > : >
: > : > I wouldn't have shot it for a color image. I don't really remember
: > : > the original.
: > : >
: > : >> Why do I think there might have been CA issues through the tree tops.
: > : >
: > : > I wouldn't have worried about any CA because I wasn't interested in
: > : > any details in the leafy portions and expected any fringing to drop
: > : > out.
: > :
: > : Alright then! Shot with B&W in mind from the start, so CA not an issue.
: > : I just feel that it could be done a little differently from the
: > : original RAW, it still feels like something of a "rescue" to me.
: > :
: > : What I like is, unlike many others, you are prepared to step out of
: > : your comfort zone and shoot for experimentation.
: > : It can be fun.
: > :
: > : I know this is not your high contrast line of trees with the Sun behind
: > : them, but is this vaguely the sort of thing you had in mind?
: > : < http://db.tt/FGtA4wYe >
: >
: > I like Tony's trees better.
: >
: > Bob
:
: Come on! They both suck.

Well.... Of the two, I prefer Tony's. I admit that the packing peanuts all
over the ground don't help it any, but the overall composition isn't bad.

Bob
 
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Robert Coe
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      08-12-2012
On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 16:32:44 -0700, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
: On 2012-08-11 15:20:11 -0700, Robert Coe <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
:
: > It might be interesting to see what [the Duck's Half Dome shot] looks like
: > in color. The excessive contrast down the middle might be mitigated by the
: > deeply wooded portions being dark green, rather than black.
:
: OK!
: Here is a color version and a side-by-side comparison.
: < http://db.tt/ZVjYoasQ >
: < http://db.tt/Rz16bwMj >

I'm ambivalent. The color version cures the excessive contrast (without
imparting much green, which is OK), but the lack of the yellow-filter effect
of the B&W conversion leaves an overall hazy look and a sky that's lighter
than ideal. Given the apparent angle of the sun, maybe a polarizer would have
helped. But of course that kind of second guessing doesn't change the picture.

If I had taken the picture (in Canon RAW mode) and were editing it with DPP,
I'd try landscape mode to try to darken the sky. And maybe up the auto
lighting adjustment from normal to high. I have no idea what those tweaks
translate to in the Nikon or Photoshoppe worlds.

The bottom line is that I think I do prefer the color version, but not by as
much as I might have expected.

Bob
 
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tony cooper
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      08-12-2012
On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 09:40:46 -0400, Robert Coe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 05:30:34 -0700, Savageduck
><savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>: On 2012-08-12 05:23:40 -0700, Robert Coe <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>:
>: > On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 20:31:20 -0700, Savageduck
>: > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>: > : On 2012-08-11 17:20:48 -0700, tony cooper <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
>: > :
>: > : > On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 16:58:37 -0700, Savageduck
>: > : > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>: > : >
>: > : >> Now here there is something "wrong". The contrast due to the strong
>: > : >> highlights (I suspect blown highlights in the color version) needs
>: > : >> something else to fix the image. I don't believe there is a quick NIK
>: > : >> fix for this. I think that this is one of those times an ND Grad might
>: > : >> have helped. Perhaps adding a grad in ACR???
>: > : >>
>: > : >> Was there a particular reason you went B&W with this, or was it a
>: > : >> rescue effort?
>: > : >
>: > : > No, I saw it as black and white from the start. I liked the lines and
>: > : > the diagonals of the shadows. I was out and about and saw this in
>: > : > early morning with the sun behind the trees. I pushed it to max
>: > : > contrast deliberately. I didn't want detail.
>: > : >
>: > : > I wouldn't have shot it for a color image. I don't really remember
>: > : > the original.
>: > : >
>: > : >> Why do I think there might have been CA issues through the tree tops.
>: > : >
>: > : > I wouldn't have worried about any CA because I wasn't interested in
>: > : > any details in the leafy portions and expected any fringing to drop
>: > : > out.
>: > :
>: > : Alright then! Shot with B&W in mind from the start, so CA not an issue.
>: > : I just feel that it could be done a little differently from the
>: > : original RAW, it still feels like something of a "rescue" to me.
>: > :
>: > : What I like is, unlike many others, you are prepared to step out of
>: > : your comfort zone and shoot for experimentation.
>: > : It can be fun.
>: > :
>: > : I know this is not your high contrast line of trees with the Sun behind
>: > : them, but is this vaguely the sort of thing you had in mind?
>: > : < http://db.tt/FGtA4wYe >
>: >
>: > I like Tony's trees better.
>: >
>: > Bob
>:
>: Come on! They both suck.
>
>Well.... Of the two, I prefer Tony's. I admit that the packing peanuts all
>over the ground don't help it any, but the overall composition isn't bad.


The image of the black and white trees that I linked to is *exactly*
what I had in mind. It's a scene that I saw when driving, thought
"That would make a good b&w image", snapped it, and processed it
exactly as I wanted it to be. The "packing peanuts" are the way the
grass looks when you process it as I processed it.

I take photographs, I post photographs here and to the SI, and I post
photographs to some online forums. I'm under no illusion that other
people like all - or even some - of my photographs. That's very much
to be expected, and I have the same feeling about the photographs of
others. I don't get wounded when someone doesn't like a photograph of
mine or suggests a major change in the composition or processing.

What I saw in this scene was a row of parallel lines and a row of
diagonals that appealed to me. I saw shapes and alignment of shapes,
not trees.

The Duck's image, to me, is a hodge-podge of shapes that don't
contribute to a cohesive image. The extreme contrast of black and
white doesn't do anything for the scene. A color version might work
better, but - still - there's no real element of interest here. A
converging line of trees has possibilities, but there's too much here.

I accept the Duck's comment that my image is a mistake and an apparent
rescue shot with good grace. That's his view, and he has the chops as
a photographer to make that comment. I know that he has an eye even
if it's not always the same eye that I'd use. I'm sure the Duck views
my comments on his image the same.






--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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