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The horror of HTML5

 
 
Tim W
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      06-11-2012
This probably isn't news to you lot but I am a beginner in this html
lark and I am teaching myself a bit of what I thought would be the
latest and slickest HTML5 but the more I learn the more I recoil in
horror at the mess that it is. Look at this site. I have no idea who
this guy is but clearly not an idiot - he has written a book about HTML5
and I thought I might read what he has to say:
http://diveintohtml5.info/index.html

But what do we find on the index page? Nice embedded font, but the
attempt (Ithink)at a drop cap reads "[blob]ive into HTML5...." in FF so
we open it in Opera and it's just a slightly different blob and now I
look at it the other browser is displaying half the text (not all)in a
different size. Sheesh, what a mess up and this is from an expert. What
hope for someone like me?

Tim w

Here is a screenshot of what I saw:
http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/a...tml5screen.jpg

 
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mayeul.marguet
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      06-11-2012
On 11/06/2012 10:53, Tim W wrote:
> This probably isn't news to you lot but I am a beginner in this html
> lark and I am teaching myself a bit of what I thought would be the
> latest and slickest HTML5 but the more I learn the more I recoil in
> horror at the mess that it is. Look at this site. I have no idea who
> this guy is but clearly not an idiot - he has written a book about HTML5
> and I thought I might read what he has to say:
> http://diveintohtml5.info/index.html
>
> But what do we find on the index page? Nice embedded font, but the
> attempt (Ithink)at a drop cap reads "[blob]ive into HTML5...." in FF so
> we open it in Opera and it's just a slightly different blob and now I
> look at it the other browser is displaying half the text (not all)in a
> different size. Sheesh, what a mess up and this is from an expert. What
> hope for someone like me?


Long story short, you will like HTML5 way better if you stay with what
it does offer, rather than try to make things you want but it does not
offer.

Yeah, it is indeed frustratring on many accounts and there are many
reasons for it. If you want to make a website you will need to make do
with how you make a website. Otherwise, one can always develop native apps.

Also, presentational features are best kept with CSS realms and out of
HTML. That was the case here. No HTML5 at all for these drop caps.

--
Mayeul
 
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Jonathan N. Little
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      06-11-2012
Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> "These are the properties that apply to :first-letter pseudo-elements:
> font properties, 'text-decoration', 'text-transform', 'letter-spacing',
> 'word-spacing' (when appropriate), 'line-height', 'float',
> 'vertical-align' (only if 'float' is 'none'), margin properties, padding
> properties, border properties, color property, background properties.
> UAs may apply other properties as well."
> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/selector.html#first-letter
>
> So you shouldn't expect to be able to set the dimensions using width and
> height. Consequently, most browsers these days will use some small box
> for the element. What we see users is just the tiny part of the
> background image that was supposed to be shown as large.



Adding "border: 1px solid #f00;" to .f:first-letter will confirm it. A
hack that will approximate what the author was hoping for is to for that
rule (.f:first-letter) remove:

"width: 6em;" and "height: em;" and add "padding: 100px;" and
"background-repeat" no-repeat;". The results will no longer scalable
with the base font.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com


 
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P E Schoen
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      06-12-2012
"Tim W" wrote in message news:jr4bl8$36s$(E-Mail Removed)...

> Here is a screenshot of what I saw:
> http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/a...tml5screen.jpg


My screenshot using IE9:

http://www.enginuitysystems.com/pix/HTML5.jpg

Paul

 
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Jukka K. Korpela
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      06-12-2012
2012-06-12 8:28, P E Schoen wrote:

> My screenshot using IE9:
>
> http://www.enginuitysystems.com/pix/HTML5.jpg


The page http://diveintohtml5.info/index.html has been modified now (I
informed its maintainer about the problem). It now has the letter "D"
marked up and styled as a separate real element, instead of using the
:first-letter pseudo-element. This is a little clumsier, but it avoids
the limitations on styling the pseudo-element.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
 
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Tim W
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      06-12-2012
On 11/06/2012 12:09, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> 2012-06-11 11:53, Tim W wrote:
>
>> Look at this site. I have no idea who
>> this guy is but clearly not an idiot - he has written a book about HTML5
>> and I thought I might read what he has to say:
>> http://diveintohtml5.info/index.html
>>
>> But what do we find on the index page? Nice embedded font, but the
>> attempt (Ithink)at a drop cap reads "[blob]ive into HTML5...." in FF so
>> we open it in Opera and it's just a slightly different blob

>
> Embedded fonts are CSS3, not HTML5.


Yes you made that distinction before I think, and technically correct,
no question but to my ear 'html' is common parlance whereas 'CSS' is a
technical term so to say for instance 'html is the language that
websites are written in' is totally acceptable. iow 'html' can mean al
ot of other stuff as well as html.
> And the style sheet settings for creating a drop cap aren't even CSS3
> but CSS 2.1. Whoever wrote the page made a mistake in trying to turn
> the first letter to a drop cap, using :first-letter, failing to note
> this restriction:
>
> "These are the properties that apply to :first-letter pseudo-elements:
> font properties, 'text-decoration', 'text-transform',
> 'letter-spacing', 'word-spacing' (when appropriate), 'line-height',
> 'float', 'vertical-align' (only if 'float' is 'none'), margin
> properties, padding properties, border properties, color property,
> background properties. UAs may apply other properties as well."
> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/selector.html#first-letter
>
> So you shouldn't expect to be able to set the dimensions using width
> and height. Consequently, most browsers these days will use some small
> box for the element. What we see users is just the tiny part of the
> background image that was supposed to be shown as large.
>
> This does not tell anything about the author's competence in HTML5
> matters, or about HTML5.


Right

 
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Tim W
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      06-12-2012
On 12/06/2012 07:52, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> 2012-06-12 8:28, P E Schoen wrote:
>
>> My screenshot using IE9:
>>
>> http://www.enginuitysystems.com/pix/HTML5.jpg

>
> The page http://diveintohtml5.info/index.html has been modified now (I
> informed its maintainer about the problem). It now has the letter "D"
> marked up and styled as a separate real element, instead of using the
> :first-letter pseudo-element. This is a little clumsier, but it avoids
> the limitations on styling the pseudo-element.
>

I am still getting different font sizes in the paras with different
browsers. Is that a result of stying with words , font-size:large; in
the CSS?

Tim W
 
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Gene Wirchenko
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      06-12-2012
On Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:50:15 +0100, Tim W <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>On 11/06/2012 12:09, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:


[snip]

>> Embedded fonts are CSS3, not HTML5.

>
>Yes you made that distinction before I think, and technically correct,
>no question but to my ear 'html' is common parlance whereas 'CSS' is a
>technical term so to say for instance 'html is the language that
>websites are written in' is totally acceptable. iow 'html' can mean al
>ot of other stuff as well as html.


This is a technical newsgroup for HTML. It should not be
surprising that we tend to use the technical definition of "HTML"
here.

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
 
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dorayme
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      06-12-2012
In article <jr8a6h$5uj$(E-Mail Removed)>,
Tim W <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I am still getting different font sizes in the paras with different
> browsers. Is that a result of stying with words , font-size:large; in
> the CSS?


Have a look at your browser settings (options or preferences) and see
if they differ. There are differences between browsers independent of
this but start with this.

--
dorayme
 
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Neil Gould
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      06-13-2012
Tim W wrote:
>
> Yes you made that distinction before I think, and technically correct,
> no question but to my ear 'html' is common parlance whereas 'CSS' is a
> technical term so to say for instance 'html is the language that
> websites are written in' is totally acceptable. iow 'html' can mean al
> ot of other stuff as well as html.
>

Right. Around here, it could mean "How's The Meat Loaf"? ;-^

--
best regards,

Neil



 
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