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Remember people who forced you to watch their slide shows?

 
 
Wolfgang Weisselberg
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      05-21-2012
Rich <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> N <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>> RichA wrote on 20/05/2012 :


iPad.

>>> It's merely a display product, like those old portable storage units
>>> you could buy, with LCD screens.


Yep, and a camera is merely a bad light detector, like those
optical cells they used to trigger flashes.


>> Would you say the same of an Android tablet?


> I know people try to justify their existence, but they really are toys.
> The commpetition to see how many apps can be loaded and quickly forgotten
> is fierce. I see people doing real work, I see laptops, consistently.


Laptops are toys.
Otherwise there wouldn't be any with a glare display.

-Wolfgang
 
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RichA
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      05-21-2012
On May 20, 9:17*pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:
> Rich <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > N <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> >> RichA wrote on 20/05/2012 :

>
> iPad.
>
> >>> It's merely a display product, like those old portable storage units
> >>> you could buy, with LCD screens.

>
> Yep, and a camera is merely a bad light detector, like those
> optical cells they used to trigger flashes.
>
> >> Would you say the same of an Android tablet?

> > I know people try to justify their existence, but they really are toys.
> > The commpetition to see how many apps can be loaded and quickly forgotten
> > is fierce. * I see people doing real work, I see laptops, consistently.

>
> Laptops are toys.
> Otherwise there wouldn't be any with a glare display.
>
> -Wolfgang


What?
 
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Trevor
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      05-21-2012

"Wolfgang Weisselberg" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> Trevor <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> BTW he always shoots in jpg only on a 5D2 to save time and storage space!
>>

>
> And that's bad because?


I wondered if he threw away his negatives as well to save storage space.
(I told him there was a RAW + JPG option if he needed to save time, and
storage space was rather a non issue for most people these days)

And it's really bad because he told the audience there was no point in
shooting RAW, and he didn't understand the loss of dynamic range being saved
which gives no chance to make satisfactory changes later. He said the only
difference was a very small loss in detail. For someone who taught
photography, the least he could have done is mention that his option may
suit newspaper photo's, but not art photography. But he obviously had no
idea. Of course he had no idea what "unsharp mask" meant either, and his
photo's proved the real extent of his other limitations.

Trevor.


 
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Wolfgang Weisselberg
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      05-22-2012
Trevor <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> "Wolfgang Weisselberg" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Trevor <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> BTW he always shoots in jpg only on a 5D2 to save time and storage space!
>>>


>> And that's bad because?


> I wondered if he threw away his negatives as well to save storage space.


Not comparable. But maybe he shot polaroid.

> (I told him there was a RAW + JPG option if he needed to save time, and
> storage space was rather a non issue for most people these days)


Once you understand
"most people" != "all people"
your amount of photos != everyones amount of photos
10 TB != large
you'll be better off.

> And it's really bad because he told the audience there was no point in
> shooting RAW,


For quite a lot of things there isn't.

> and he didn't understand the loss of dynamic range being saved
> which gives no chance to make satisfactory changes later.


You're supposed to photograph, not to photoshop.

> He said the only
> difference was a very small loss in detail.


And he's right.

> For someone who taught
> photography, the least he could have done is mention that his option may
> suit newspaper photo's, but not art photography.


You have got a strange idea of art. And of newspaper photos.
And the relation between these two. Lots of prejudice or no
thinking.

> But he obviously had no
> idea. Of course he had no idea what "unsharp mask" meant either, and his
> photo's proved the real extent of his other limitations.


Ah, yes, you're the one who'd judge the content of photos or
art only on their technical merit. Anyone who doesn't know
"unsharp mask" doesn't know anything. What do you know about
"artistic vision"?

-Wolfgang
 
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Robert Coe
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      05-26-2012
On Mon, 21 May 2012 13:18:56 +1000, "Trevor" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
:
: "Wolfgang Weisselberg" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
: news(E-Mail Removed)...
: > Trevor <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: >> BTW he always shoots in jpg only on a 5D2 to save time and storage space!
: >>
: >
: > And that's bad because?
:
: I wondered if he threw away his negatives as well to save storage space.
: (I told him there was a RAW + JPG option if he needed to save time, and
: storage space was rather a non issue for most people these days)
:
: And it's really bad because he told the audience there was no point in
: shooting RAW, and he didn't understand the loss of dynamic range being
: saved which gives no chance to make satisfactory changes later. He said
: the only difference was a very small loss in detail. For someone who
: taught photography, the least he could have done is mention that his
: option may suit newspaper photo's, but not art photography. But he
: obviously had no idea. Of course he had no idea what "unsharp mask" meant
: either, and his photo's proved the real extent of his other limitations.

I can muster a bit of sympathy for what it must be like to be a newspaper
photographer, with the constant deadline pressure and crappy reproduction of
one's photos. When I shoot an event (always in RAW), the first thing I usually
have to do is convert a few images to JPEG and make them available to our
local newspapers. That can be a bit of a nuisance, especially if the event
ends late at night. But I cover an event every couple of weeks, on average,
which is nothing like doing several a day with even greater deadline pressure.
So I can understand the temptation of relegating everything to quick and dirty
procedures, eschewing such niceties as RAW mode and unsharp masks, as long as
the editor doesn't give me a hard time.

Come to think of it, do we have any newspaper photographers (active or
retired) in the group? I can't recall anyone mentioning having been one.

Bob
 
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Robert Coe
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-26-2012
On Sat, 26 May 2012 13:59:44 -0700, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
: On 2012-05-26 12:47:00 -0700, Robert Coe <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
:
: > On Mon, 21 May 2012 13:18:56 +1000, "Trevor" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: > :
: > : "Wolfgang Weisselberg" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
: > : news(E-Mail Removed)...
: > : > Trevor <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: > : >> BTW he always shoots in jpg only on a 5D2 to save time and storage space!
: > : >>
: > : >
: > : > And that's bad because?
: > :
: > : I wondered if he threw away his negatives as well to save storage space.
: > : (I told him there was a RAW + JPG option if he needed to save time, and
: > : storage space was rather a non issue for most people these days)
: > :
: > : And it's really bad because he told the audience there was no point in
: > : shooting RAW, and he didn't understand the loss of dynamic range being
: > : saved which gives no chance to make satisfactory changes later. He said
: > : the only difference was a very small loss in detail. For someone who
: > : taught photography, the least he could have done is mention that his
: > : option may suit newspaper photo's, but not art photography. But he
: > : obviously had no idea. Of course he had no idea what "unsharp mask" meant
: > : either, and his photo's proved the real extent of his other limitations.
: >
: > I can muster a bit of sympathy for what it must be like to be a newspaper
: > photographer, with the constant deadline pressure and crappy reproduction of
: > one's photos. When I shoot an event (always in RAW), the first thing I usually
: > have to do is convert a few images to JPEG and make them available to our
: > local newspapers. That can be a bit of a nuisance, especially if the event
: > ends late at night. But I cover an event every couple of weeks, on average,
: > which is nothing like doing several a day with even greater deadline pressure.
: > So I can understand the temptation of relegating everything to quick and dirty
: > procedures, eschewing such niceties as RAW mode and unsharp masks, as long as
: > the editor doesn't give me a hard time.
: >
: > Come to think of it, do we have any newspaper photographers (active or
: > retired) in the group? I can't recall anyone mentioning having been one.
: >
: > Bob
:
: Then why not shoot RAW + JPEG?
: ...and since you have the full RAW file it isn't even necessary to have
: the JPEG at full size, or compression. A newspaper is going to be
: printing halftones anyway, so image quality is not one of their great
: priorities. As has been stated in this thread, shooting RAW+JPEG is not
: too much of a penalty memory-wise.

In my case, the answer is that I'm not that good. The pictures I produce
always seem to need cropping, white balance adjustment, brightness tuning,
etc. And I can make those fixes more effectively in RAW than in JPEG.

I'm not particularly concerned about memory. I work for our Information
Technology Department. I can get as big a computer, and as much disk space on
our servers, as I need. In my cameras I use 16GB CF cards, and I can't
remember the last time I had to change cards during a shoot. (At events I
almost always use two cameras, so I have a capacity of about 1000 shots.)

Bob
 
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Grimly Curmudgeon
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      05-27-2012
On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:12:32 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Ah, yes, you're the one who'd judge the content of photos or
>art only on their technical merit. Anyone who doesn't know
>"unsharp mask" doesn't know anything. What do you know about
>"artistic vision"?


Hey, a **** slideshow is a **** slideshow. Simple as that.
 
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Robert Coe
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      05-27-2012
On Sat, 26 May 2012 15:09:52 -0700, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
: On 2012-05-26 14:29:41 -0700, Robert Coe <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
:
: > On Sat, 26 May 2012 13:59:44 -0700, Savageduck
: > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
: > : On 2012-05-26 12:47:00 -0700, Robert Coe <(E-Mail Removed)> said:
: > :
: > : > On Mon, 21 May 2012 13:18:56 +1000, "Trevor" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: > : > :
: > : > : "Wolfgang Weisselberg" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
: > : > : news(E-Mail Removed)...
: > : > : > Trevor <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: > : > : >> BTW he always shoots in jpg only on a 5D2 to save time and
: > storage space!
: > : > : >>
: > : > : >
: > : > : > And that's bad because?
: > : > :
: > : > : I wondered if he threw away his negatives as well to save storage
: > space.
: > : > : (I told him there was a RAW + JPG option if he needed to save time, and
: > : > : storage space was rather a non issue for most people these days)
: > : > :
: > : > : And it's really bad because he told the audience there was no point in
: > : > : shooting RAW, and he didn't understand the loss of dynamic range being
: > : > : saved which gives no chance to make satisfactory changes later. He said
: > : > : the only difference was a very small loss in detail. For someone who
: > : > : taught photography, the least he could have done is mention that his
: > : > : option may suit newspaper photo's, but not art photography. But he
: > : > : obviously had no idea. Of course he had no idea what "unsharp mask" meant
: > : > : either, and his photo's proved the real extent of his other limitations.
: > : >
: > : > I can muster a bit of sympathy for what it must be like to be a newspaper
: > : > photographer, with the constant deadline pressure and crappy
: > reproduction of
: > : > one's photos. When I shoot an event (always in RAW), the first
: > thing I usually
: > : > have to do is convert a few images to JPEG and make them available to our
: > : > local newspapers. That can be a bit of a nuisance, especially if the event
: > : > ends late at night. But I cover an event every couple of weeks, on average,
: > : > which is nothing like doing several a day with even greater
: > deadline pressure.
: > : > So I can understand the temptation of relegating everything to
: > quick and dirty
: > : > procedures, eschewing such niceties as RAW mode and unsharp masks,
: > as long as
: > : > the editor doesn't give me a hard time.
: > : >
: > : > Come to think of it, do we have any newspaper photographers (active or
: > : > retired) in the group? I can't recall anyone mentioning having been one.
: > : >
: > : > Bob
: > :
: > : Then why not shoot RAW + JPEG?
: > : ...and since you have the full RAW file it isn't even necessary to have
: > : the JPEG at full size, or compression. A newspaper is going to be
: > : printing halftones anyway, so image quality is not one of their great
: > : priorities. As has been stated in this thread, shooting RAW+JPEG is not
: > : too much of a penalty memory-wise.
: >
: > In my case, the answer is that I'm not that good. The pictures I produce
: > always seem to need cropping, white balance adjustment, brightness tuning,
: > etc. And I can make those fixes more effectively in RAW than in JPEG.
:
: So? Neither am I.
: Shoot WB auto, don't bother with cropping other than to standard sizes
: required by the newspaper. If the brightness/contrast isn't to your
: liking out of the camera, just hit it with "auto contrast" & "Auto
: tone". In most cases you shouldn't even have to bother with that. Your
: standard of perfection isn't required in a World where newspapers are
: happy to use unprocessed camera phone images.
:
: Shooting for yourself and /or a client who cares about image quality
: and composition is one thing, one where tweaking a RAW file is
: preferred. That is my usual practice. However submitting a jpeg capture
: to a newspaper, where the photo editor is probably going to make
: his/her crops to fit, is a quick and dirty affair not worth exerting
: the same post effort as you would for your RAW files. (see note on
: camera phone images)
:
: Newspaper images are not client PR, or magazine shots, or fine art.
: Hell! For the most part they aren't even worthy of online publication.

I see your point, and there's a lot of evidence to support what you say. But I
have the good fortune to find myself, as much by dumb luck as by demonstrated
skill, in a situation where photography is a significant part of my day job.
If I screw it up, it isn't going to be because I ever deliberately produced
less than my best work.

Bob
 
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Trevor
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      05-28-2012

"Robert Coe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>In my cameras I use 16GB CF cards, and I can't
> remember the last time I had to change cards during a shoot.


I can, it was back when 1GB CF cards were still considered big, and
expensive
Besides multiple cards I had a hard drive backup device I no longer use.

Trevor.


 
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Wolfgang Weisselberg
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      05-28-2012
Grimly Curmudgeon <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:12:32 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>>Ah, yes, you're the one who'd judge the content of photos or
>>art only on their technical merit. Anyone who doesn't know
>>"unsharp mask" doesn't know anything. What do you know about
>>"artistic vision"?


> Hey, a **** slideshow is a **** slideshow. Simple as that.


You used an 's' word. That means what you say is completely
wrong and only shows your stupidity.

Don't like that? Funny, that's the way you rate content ...

-Wolfgang
 
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