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Advice on digital TV please

 
 
John S
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-15-2012
I suppose this is a bit on the fringes for nz.comp, but I guess a digital
TV setup involves computers

Anyway, I'm thinking I must get round to doing something about switching
over from my analogue system, and wanting to find out a few things to see
if I can manage a DIY changeover.

1. Relative benefits of terrestrial vs satellite.

I've been told that satellite has not as good quality as terrestrial, and
is also subject to rain fade.
But does satellite have any advantages?
For example, with a satellite dish do you have the opportunity to receive
free programmes that are not broadcast over the terrestrial system?
And, if so, do you need a separate dish for each satellite you want to
listen to?

We are on the fringe area of Whakatane for receiving the terrestrial
signal, and I still have to try and work out a way of finding if we can
receive that signal at our house. Have spoken to an installer who thought
he might be getting a portable UHF aerial and signal monitor at some stage,
but can't help in the meantime. Tried to contact another installer, but
seems like they are all pretty busy.

I tried typing my address in the freeview coverage site and received the
verdict of "unlikely" for UHF aerial coverage. However, I also typed in a
couple on addresses where I know they get a reasonably good UHF signal and
received the same "unlikely" response, so I guess the freeview coverage
information errs on the conservative side.

2. How feasible to set up your own aerial or dish and line it up?

Wondering if there are any good NZ web sites with technical info on what
equipment is needed, and how to set it up.

3. Choosing the right consumer equipment?

We presently have quite a flexible setup with a DVD recorder and a VHS
cassette recorder, allowing us to record two different programmes
simultaneously (and watch a third if we want to).
Our TV is a 6 year old Phillips CRT TV.

At very least we would like to be able to record one programme whilst
watching another, and when playing back have something easy to control so
we can skip through the "ads".

Had a look on the freeview site for equipment and I see they only list two
satellite recorders on their approved list, though there are several UHF
type recorders.
I see there are other devices listed at freeviewshop.co.nz, though they
appear to require an additional external usb HDD for recording.

Any hints about how to select something reliable and flexible?

Guess I can do some more searching on the web, but any hints on where to
get useful info, or recommendations for good appliances would be welcome.

If all else fails, I might give in and subscribe to Sky TV, though I think
it is pretty expensive.

Cheers,

John S
 
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bugalugs
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-15-2012
On 15/05/2012 7:54 p.m., John S wrote:
> I suppose this is a bit on the fringes for nz.comp, but I guess a digital
> TV setup involves computers
>
> Anyway, I'm thinking I must get round to doing something about switching
> over from my analogue system, and wanting to find out a few things to see
> if I can manage a DIY changeover.
>
> 1. Relative benefits of terrestrial vs satellite.
>
> I've been told that satellite has not as good quality as terrestrial, and
> is also subject to rain fade.
> But does satellite have any advantages?
> For example, with a satellite dish do you have the opportunity to receive
> free programmes that are not broadcast over the terrestrial system?
> And, if so, do you need a separate dish for each satellite you want to
> listen to?
>
> We are on the fringe area of Whakatane for receiving the terrestrial
> signal, and I still have to try and work out a way of finding if we can
> receive that signal at our house. Have spoken to an installer who thought
> he might be getting a portable UHF aerial and signal monitor at some stage,
> but can't help in the meantime. Tried to contact another installer, but
> seems like they are all pretty busy.
>
> I tried typing my address in the freeview coverage site and received the
> verdict of "unlikely" for UHF aerial coverage. However, I also typed in a
> couple on addresses where I know they get a reasonably good UHF signal and
> received the same "unlikely" response, so I guess the freeview coverage
> information errs on the conservative side.


If you can beg borrow or steal someones old UHF aerial and can pick up
Prime on your existing equipment you should be able to get Terrestrial
freeview.

>
> 2. How feasible to set up your own aerial or dish and line it up?
>


Go to Google Earth Tools Ruler Path and draw a line from the
transmitter to your place. Zoom in and see what features the line passes
through which you can see from your place and aim for that.
Check other UHF aerials in your area for vertical or horizontal
polarisation.

> Wondering if there are any good NZ web sites with technical info on what
> equipment is needed, and how to set it up.
>
> 3. Choosing the right consumer equipment?
>
> We presently have quite a flexible setup with a DVD recorder and a VHS
> cassette recorder, allowing us to record two different programmes
> simultaneously (and watch a third if we want to).
> Our TV is a 6 year old Phillips CRT TV.
>
> At very least we would like to be able to record one programme whilst
> watching another, and when playing back have something easy to control so
> we can skip through the "ads".
>
> Had a look on the freeview site for equipment and I see they only list two
> satellite recorders on their approved list, though there are several UHF
> type recorders.
> I see there are other devices listed at freeviewshop.co.nz, though they
> appear to require an additional external usb HDD for recording.
>
> Any hints about how to select something reliable and flexible?
>
> Guess I can do some more searching on the web, but any hints on where to
> get useful info, or recommendations for good appliances would be welcome.
>
> If all else fails, I might give in and subscribe to Sky TV, though I think
> it is pretty expensive.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John S



--
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
 
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Dave Doe
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-15-2012
In article <jouksk$1m5$(E-Mail Removed)>, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed),
bugalugs says...
>
> On 15/05/2012 7:54 p.m., John S wrote:
> > I suppose this is a bit on the fringes for nz.comp, but I guess a digital
> > TV setup involves computers
> >
> > Anyway, I'm thinking I must get round to doing something about switching
> > over from my analogue system, and wanting to find out a few things to see
> > if I can manage a DIY changeover.
> >
> > 1. Relative benefits of terrestrial vs satellite.
> >
> > I've been told that satellite has not as good quality as terrestrial, and
> > is also subject to rain fade.
> > But does satellite have any advantages?
> > For example, with a satellite dish do you have the opportunity to receive
> > free programmes that are not broadcast over the terrestrial system?
> > And, if so, do you need a separate dish for each satellite you want to
> > listen to?
> >
> > We are on the fringe area of Whakatane for receiving the terrestrial
> > signal, and I still have to try and work out a way of finding if we can
> > receive that signal at our house. Have spoken to an installer who thought
> > he might be getting a portable UHF aerial and signal monitor at some stage,
> > but can't help in the meantime. Tried to contact another installer, but
> > seems like they are all pretty busy.
> >
> > I tried typing my address in the freeview coverage site and received the
> > verdict of "unlikely" for UHF aerial coverage. However, I also typed in a
> > couple on addresses where I know they get a reasonably good UHF signal and
> > received the same "unlikely" response, so I guess the freeview coverage
> > information errs on the conservative side.

>
> If you can beg borrow or steal someones old UHF aerial and can pick up
> Prime on your existing equipment you should be able to get Terrestrial
> freeview.
>
> >
> > 2. How feasible to set up your own aerial or dish and line it up?
> >

>
> Go to Google Earth Tools Ruler Path and draw a line from the
> transmitter to your place. Zoom in and see what features the line passes
> through which you can see from your place and aim for that.
> Check other UHF aerials in your area for vertical or horizontal
> polarisation.


That's a cool idea! - how reliable is it really though?

--
Duncan.
 
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Frank Williams
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-15-2012
On Tue, 15 May 2012 19:54:23 +1200, John S <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>I suppose this is a bit on the fringes for nz.comp, but I guess a digital
>TV setup involves computers
>
>Anyway, I'm thinking I must get round to doing something about switching
>over from my analogue system, and wanting to find out a few things to see
>if I can manage a DIY changeover.
>
>1. Relative benefits of terrestrial vs satellite.
>
>I've been told that satellite has not as good quality as terrestrial, and
>is also subject to rain fade.
>But does satellite have any advantages?
>For example, with a satellite dish do you have the opportunity to receive
>free programmes that are not broadcast over the terrestrial system?
>And, if so, do you need a separate dish for each satellite you want to
>listen to?
>
>We are on the fringe area of Whakatane for receiving the terrestrial
>signal, and I still have to try and work out a way of finding if we can
>receive that signal at our house. Have spoken to an installer who thought
>he might be getting a portable UHF aerial and signal monitor at some stage,
>but can't help in the meantime. Tried to contact another installer, but
>seems like they are all pretty busy.
>
>I tried typing my address in the freeview coverage site and received the
>verdict of "unlikely" for UHF aerial coverage. However, I also typed in a
>couple on addresses where I know they get a reasonably good UHF signal and
>received the same "unlikely" response, so I guess the freeview coverage
>information errs on the conservative side.
>
>2. How feasible to set up your own aerial or dish and line it up?
>
>Wondering if there are any good NZ web sites with technical info on what
>equipment is needed, and how to set it up.
>
>3. Choosing the right consumer equipment?
>
>We presently have quite a flexible setup with a DVD recorder and a VHS
>cassette recorder, allowing us to record two different programmes
>simultaneously (and watch a third if we want to).
>Our TV is a 6 year old Phillips CRT TV.
>
>At very least we would like to be able to record one programme whilst
>watching another, and when playing back have something easy to control so
>we can skip through the "ads".
>
>Had a look on the freeview site for equipment and I see they only list two
>satellite recorders on their approved list, though there are several UHF
>type recorders.
>I see there are other devices listed at freeviewshop.co.nz, though they
>appear to require an additional external usb HDD for recording.
>
>Any hints about how to select something reliable and flexible?
>
>Guess I can do some more searching on the web, but any hints on where to
>get useful info, or recommendations for good appliances would be welcome.
>
>If all else fails, I might give in and subscribe to Sky TV, though I think
>it is pretty expensive.
>
>Cheers,
>
>John S



Stick to LG or Samsung TV's for USB video playback, these others have
only AVI/DIVX support.

DVB-T1 also has rain problems if you have trees in the way.

Freeview approved brands do now allow extra channels but Freeview
approves PVR's are far easy to use and dead easy to set the recording.

Don't go the Plasma way its being dropped like hot cakes Plus leave Tivo
alone no support and the network package has to be brought from OZZ
$90au if needed, Tivo is old 2006 made in Mexico


DishTV T1050 is a nice PVR records 2 Channels has a 500GB HD can be
got for less thay $300.


BUT BEFORE YOU DO ANY THING, CHECK YOUR UHF RECEPTION IS OK, and dont
use a cow boy to do it.

 
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bugalugs
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-16-2012
On 16/05/2012 10:37 a.m., Dave Doe wrote:
> In article<jouksk$1m5$(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed),
> bugalugs says...
>>
>> On 15/05/2012 7:54 p.m., John S wrote:
>>> I suppose this is a bit on the fringes for nz.comp, but I guess a digital
>>> TV setup involves computers
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'm thinking I must get round to doing something about switching
>>> over from my analogue system, and wanting to find out a few things to see
>>> if I can manage a DIY changeover.
>>>
>>> 1. Relative benefits of terrestrial vs satellite.
>>>
>>> I've been told that satellite has not as good quality as terrestrial, and
>>> is also subject to rain fade.
>>> But does satellite have any advantages?
>>> For example, with a satellite dish do you have the opportunity to receive
>>> free programmes that are not broadcast over the terrestrial system?
>>> And, if so, do you need a separate dish for each satellite you want to
>>> listen to?
>>>
>>> We are on the fringe area of Whakatane for receiving the terrestrial
>>> signal, and I still have to try and work out a way of finding if we can
>>> receive that signal at our house. Have spoken to an installer who thought
>>> he might be getting a portable UHF aerial and signal monitor at some stage,
>>> but can't help in the meantime. Tried to contact another installer, but
>>> seems like they are all pretty busy.
>>>
>>> I tried typing my address in the freeview coverage site and received the
>>> verdict of "unlikely" for UHF aerial coverage. However, I also typed in a
>>> couple on addresses where I know they get a reasonably good UHF signal and
>>> received the same "unlikely" response, so I guess the freeview coverage
>>> information errs on the conservative side.

>>
>> If you can beg borrow or steal someones old UHF aerial and can pick up
>> Prime on your existing equipment you should be able to get Terrestrial
>> freeview.
>>
>>>
>>> 2. How feasible to set up your own aerial or dish and line it up?
>>>

>>
>> Go to Google Earth Tools Ruler Path and draw a line from the
>> transmitter to your place. Zoom in and see what features the line passes
>> through which you can see from your place and aim for that.
>> Check other UHF aerials in your area for vertical or horizontal
>> polarisation.

>
> That's a cool idea! - how reliable is it really though?
>


Worked for me.

I had problems getting a reliable signal because there was a lot of
trees and then a line of a shelterbelt (close) between me and the local
transmitter so I turned around and looked at Mt Te Aroha 47km away. I
couldn't see the transmitter but Google Earth showed the direct line was
through a Eucalypt way over on the other side of the valley. Bingo

--
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
 
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~misfit~
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-16-2012
Somewhere on teh intarwebs bugalugs wrote:
> On 16/05/2012 10:37 a.m., Dave Doe wrote:
>> In article<jouksk$1m5$(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed),

[snip]
>>> Go to Google Earth Tools Ruler Path and draw a line from the
>>> transmitter to your place. Zoom in and see what features the line
>>> passes through which you can see from your place and aim for that.
>>> Check other UHF aerials in your area for vertical or horizontal
>>> polarisation.

>>
>> That's a cool idea! - how reliable is it really though?
>>

>
> Worked for me.
>
> I had problems getting a reliable signal because there was a lot of
> trees and then a line of a shelterbelt (close) between me and the
> local transmitter so I turned around and looked at Mt Te Aroha 47km
> away. I couldn't see the transmitter but Google Earth showed the
> direct line was through a Eucalypt way over on the other side of the
> valley. Bingo


Great tip there bugs, thanks.

Trust me to leave it until the weather's turned to crap to sort it out but
anyway, I could use some advice....

I'm in Pukekohe and the UHF signal's always been marhinal around here. I was
told yesterday that out closest transmitter is in the Waitakere ranges (and
all the antennas that I can see seem to be pointing that way) and that, even
with a high-gain antenna the best this guy could get is 27% signal strength.

I have an old Sky high-gain UHF antenna from back in my pre-injury days,
back when I used to get Sky for the F1. It was set up here in Puke and the
picture was quite acceptable. However, now it's in my shed and one of the 12
clip-in X shaped bits has been missing for a long time. (I took the antenna
with me as the house was being removed after I moved out - I know you're
supposed to leave them but ... anyway.)

Do you think the missing X piece make much difference? I'm basically trying
to work out if it's worth me trying to set this thing up (now I have a TV
with a built-in Freeview tuner). As I usually watch very little TV - at most
the first part of 3 News maybe twice, three times a week - I've been making
do with amplified bunny-ears. It's barely sufficient for channels 2, 3 and 4
but, despite this thing having a dedicated UHF loop (as well as the 'ears')
I don't have any luck with any digital or analogue UHF channels.

D'ya reckon it's worth me trying this old Sky high-gain thing? It's a bit
rusty (the reflector screens or whatever they are) and, as mentioned, one X
is missing. However I'm currently not in a position to buy a new one, or get
a professional to 'do an install' so I'm considering calling in my favours
with the neighbour and putting this old thing up. I have some fairly new
co-ax, just long enough if I put it on the roof right above my bedroom.

What say you (and anyone else who might know)? I'd hate to call in my
favours for nothing - I've been banking them for a while in case I need help
with something that's difficult for me to do alone, or indeed having the
neighbour do something for me entirely. Is it likely to work? Is that
missing element going to make a big difference? As they clip in (and out)
where would it be best to leave a gap on the length of the antenna?

Thanks very much in advance.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
cozy little classification in the DSM."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)


 
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bugalugs
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-16-2012
On 16/05/2012 2:26 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
> Somewhere on teh intarwebs bugalugs wrote:
>> On 16/05/2012 10:37 a.m., Dave Doe wrote:
>>> In article<jouksk$1m5$(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed),

> [snip]
>>>> Go to Google Earth Tools Ruler Path and draw a line from the
>>>> transmitter to your place. Zoom in and see what features the line
>>>> passes through which you can see from your place and aim for that.
>>>> Check other UHF aerials in your area for vertical or horizontal
>>>> polarisation.
>>>
>>> That's a cool idea! - how reliable is it really though?
>>>

>>
>> Worked for me.
>>
>> I had problems getting a reliable signal because there was a lot of
>> trees and then a line of a shelterbelt (close) between me and the
>> local transmitter so I turned around and looked at Mt Te Aroha 47km
>> away. I couldn't see the transmitter but Google Earth showed the
>> direct line was through a Eucalypt way over on the other side of the
>> valley. Bingo

>
> Great tip there bugs, thanks.
>
> Trust me to leave it until the weather's turned to crap to sort it out but
> anyway, I could use some advice....
>
> I'm in Pukekohe and the UHF signal's always been marhinal around here. I was
> told yesterday that out closest transmitter is in the Waitakere ranges (and
> all the antennas that I can see seem to be pointing that way) and that, even
> with a high-gain antenna the best this guy could get is 27% signal strength.
>
> I have an old Sky high-gain UHF antenna from back in my pre-injury days,
> back when I used to get Sky for the F1. It was set up here in Puke and the
> picture was quite acceptable. However, now it's in my shed and one of the 12
> clip-in X shaped bits has been missing for a long time. (I took the antenna
> with me as the house was being removed after I moved out - I know you're
> supposed to leave them but ... anyway.)
>
> Do you think the missing X piece make much difference? I'm basically trying
> to work out if it's worth me trying to set this thing up (now I have a TV
> with a built-in Freeview tuner). As I usually watch very little TV - at most
> the first part of 3 News maybe twice, three times a week - I've been making
> do with amplified bunny-ears. It's barely sufficient for channels 2, 3 and 4
> but, despite this thing having a dedicated UHF loop (as well as the 'ears')
> I don't have any luck with any digital or analogue UHF channels.
>
> D'ya reckon it's worth me trying this old Sky high-gain thing? It's a bit
> rusty (the reflector screens or whatever they are) and, as mentioned, one X
> is missing. However I'm currently not in a position to buy a new one, or get
> a professional to 'do an install' so I'm considering calling in my favours
> with the neighbour and putting this old thing up. I have some fairly new
> co-ax, just long enough if I put it on the roof right above my bedroom.
>
> What say you (and anyone else who might know)? I'd hate to call in my
> favours for nothing - I've been banking them for a while in case I need help
> with something that's difficult for me to do alone, or indeed having the
> neighbour do something for me entirely. Is it likely to work? Is that
> missing element going to make a big difference? As they clip in (and out)
> where would it be best to leave a gap on the length of the antenna?
>
> Thanks very much in advance.



First of all I know SFA, but as I understand it: the aerial consists of
a reflector,(at the back) a dipole,(second from back) and a number of
directional arrays. If it is just one of the arrays missing it should
still pick up a signal. Just not as effectivly. I think the critical
point is the connection of the co-ax to the dipole.

(Someone with more knowledge can chip-in here and correctly name the parts)

If it doesn't work I've got an old UHF aerial hanging out in the trees
somewhere which I can drop it in mid-June when I go up for my
granddaughter's birthday.





--
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
 
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Frank Williams
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-16-2012
On Tue, 15 May 2012 19:54:23 +1200, John S <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>I suppose this is a bit on the fringes for nz.comp, but I guess a digital
>TV setup involves computers
>
>Anyway, I'm thinking I must get round to doing something about switching
>over from my analogue system, and wanting to find out a few things to see
>if I can manage a DIY changeover.
>
>1. Relative benefits of terrestrial vs satellite.



One of the better Antennas for Terrestrial is a Phase array but they
work best for Horizontal transmission.


This is the one that I have fitted but we don't have Horizontal
transmission.


http://www.wisi.de/cgi-bin/online_katalog.pl?prod_id=36

Many other brands like this but I got mine cheap $75

 
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bugalugs
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-16-2012
On 16/05/2012 4:26 p.m., Frank Williams wrote:
> On Tue, 15 May 2012 19:54:23 +1200, John S<(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>> I suppose this is a bit on the fringes for nz.comp, but I guess a digital
>> TV setup involves computers
>>
>> Anyway, I'm thinking I must get round to doing something about switching
>> over from my analogue system, and wanting to find out a few things to see
>> if I can manage a DIY changeover.
>>
>> 1. Relative benefits of terrestrial vs satellite.

>
>
> One of the better Antennas for Terrestrial is a Phase array but they
> work best for Horizontal transmission.
>
>
> This is the one that I have fitted but we don't have Horizontal
> transmission.
>
>
> http://www.wisi.de/cgi-bin/online_katalog.pl?prod_id=36
>
> Many other brands like this but I got mine cheap $75
>



Tricky Dicky has them at $77.

Last Thursday my daughter at Paraparaumu was trying (unsuccessfully) to
line up the Nara Road transmitter using one of those. Could only get 2
channels and the quality was worse than any analogue I've seen.

Spoke to a friend at Kuratau who was trying to pick up a signal from
Kinlock which he could see across the lake. Could only get a poor signal
through a very narrow angle when pointed well off to the side.

--
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
 
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Me
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-16-2012
On 16/05/2012 5:11 p.m., bugalugs wrote:
> On 16/05/2012 4:26 p.m., Frank Williams wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 May 2012 19:54:23 +1200, John S<(E-Mail Removed)>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I suppose this is a bit on the fringes for nz.comp, but I guess a
>>> digital
>>> TV setup involves computers
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'm thinking I must get round to doing something about switching
>>> over from my analogue system, and wanting to find out a few things to
>>> see
>>> if I can manage a DIY changeover.
>>>
>>> 1. Relative benefits of terrestrial vs satellite.

>>
>>
>> One of the better Antennas for Terrestrial is a Phase array but they
>> work best for Horizontal transmission.
>>
>>
>> This is the one that I have fitted but we don't have Horizontal
>> transmission.
>>
>>
>> http://www.wisi.de/cgi-bin/online_katalog.pl?prod_id=36
>>
>> Many other brands like this but I got mine cheap $75
>>

>
>
> Tricky Dicky has them at $77.
>
> Last Thursday my daughter at Paraparaumu was trying (unsuccessfully) to
> line up the Nara Road transmitter using one of those. Could only get 2
> channels and the quality was worse than any analogue I've seen.
>
> Spoke to a friend at Kuratau who was trying to pick up a signal from
> Kinlock which he could see across the lake. Could only get a poor signal
> through a very narrow angle when pointed well off to the side.
>

We are pretty well stuffed for line of sight to Sugarloaf in
Christchurch. We had the alternative of using a small analogue TV
translator in South Brighton, but we've used Freeview satellite instead.
Freeview satellite sucks.
It would seem pretty reasonable that they might replace the existing
analogue UHF repeater with a digital UHF repeater at South Brighton...
But they're not going to do that are they? I guess the $ for freeing up
the frequency for sale, is worth more than increasing population coverage.
But what are they going to do? I can't find anything on the freeview
website apart from "aspirational goals" for covering x% of NZ with
Freeview terrestrial.
Do they actually have any plans?

 
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