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Interesting Leica product announcements today ...

 
 
David J Taylor
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      05-12-2012
"Mxsmanic" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> David J Taylor writes:
>
>> The omission of an AA filter is typical Leica marketing, particularly
>> on a
>> camera designed for high-quality lenses where the need for such a
>> filter
>> is greater. At least the more objectionable colour artefacts will be
>> missing as it's a monochrome camera.

>
> Any artifacts from aliasing can be corrected in post.


No, that's not always possible, and it would involve degradation of the
image.

 
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Trevor
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      05-12-2012

"PeterN" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:4fadad3c$0$31601$(E-Mail Removed)-secrets.com...
>>>> 1. Leica M Monochrom, with 18 MP black and white full frame sensor. No
>>>> need for a Bayer pattern, no AA filter, no interpolation. Low noise
>>>> up to ISO 10,000.
>>>
>>> Hmmm.... I can see already plans for a Photoshop add-on tool to merge
>>> together three images taken with R,G,B filters. Kinda like a modern
>>> autochrome @ 10000.

>>
>> It's easy enough to do without any special tool. I did it testing my
>> theories about what caused certain background effects in the famous
>> Prokudin-Gorsky photos (<http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/empire/>); my RGB
>> merges are at<http://dd-b.net/ddbcms/2001/05/composite-color/>.

>
>
> Interesting experiments.


Why? I'm puzzled that he didn't realise people were doing this over 50 years
ago with multiple exposures on color film using real filters, and the main
aim was to get those colored ripples on water, or rainbow colored clouds
etc. That's the only reason to do it these days too, not try to eliminate
it as David suggests. Obviously Prokudin-Gorsky would have seen this effect
immediately and taken steps to avoid it when he didn't want it.
However if Prokudin-Gorsky used a 3 lens projector, why could he not use a 3
lens camera and take simultaneous images? Are we sure he didn't? The image
of the Nilova Monastery shows no colored ripples on the water or clouds at
all, so either it's been very heavily doctored, or he did take simultaneous
images.

Trevor.


 
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J. Clarke
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      05-12-2012
In article <jokqn0$uih$(E-Mail Removed)>, david-
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)d says...
>
> "Mxsmanic" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > David J Taylor writes:
> >
> >> The omission of an AA filter is typical Leica marketing, particularly
> >> on a
> >> camera designed for high-quality lenses where the need for such a
> >> filter
> >> is greater. At least the more objectionable colour artefacts will be
> >> missing as it's a monochrome camera.

> >
> > Any artifacts from aliasing can be corrected in post.

>
> No, that's not always possible, and it would involve degradation of the
> image.


Degrade before, degrade after, it's still degradation.


 
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Me
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      05-12-2012
On 12/05/2012 4:17 p.m., nospam wrote:
> In article<(E-Mail Removed) >, Mxsmanic
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>> Niche product, needs filters on the lens (instead of being able
>>> to do that in post) which negates the high ISO partially or fully.

>>
>> What filters are needed on the lens?

>
> usual ones for b/w are red or yellow, but also polarizer and others.
>

Most of the time you'd need to use colour filters on B&W
(outdoors/daylight), you're probably not going to want or need to use
above base ISO, so that's probably not a significant disadvantage.
The Leica M9 sensor however was hardly state of the art for quantum
efficiency or read noise, so I wouldn't be surprised if the mono version
was not as good in any way (including resolution) as current FX canon
and nikon "colour" cameras at high ISO, simply converted to B&W, with
filter effects done in PP.
 
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Noons
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      05-12-2012
Trevor wrote,on my timestamp of 12/05/2012 8:16 AM:

> And I'm even more sure I don't need to buy a Mono Leica to take color
> photo's!


Fancy that! You bad consumer, you!...

LOL!
 
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Noons
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      05-12-2012
nospam wrote,on my timestamp of 12/05/2012 2:18 PM:

>> Eighteen megapixels is low resolution for monochrome. I used to shoot
>> Technical Pan in B&W, which will blow 18 megapixels away easily.

>
> no it won't. according to roger clark, tech pan is roughly equivalent
> to 16-18 mp.


Roger is yet another idiot with pretentions to scanning and film expertise. I
have 135mm tech pan that easily exceeds 24MP. Looking at the negatives with a
microscope proves it beyond any doubt. Only wish I had a scanner capable of much
higher rez to show it at its best.
The thing these "experts" totally miss is that starting from an image taken 30
years ago with **** lenses and technique is no proof whatsoever that film cannot
show high resolution. Most of the "comparison" sites around the net have some
of the worst film images I have ever seen, parading as "proof" that film is
incapable of high resolution.
 
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nospam
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      05-12-2012
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Mxsmanic
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> > no they can't

>
> Yes they can, nyah-nyah.


no, they can't. it's *not* possible since there is no way to discern
between aliased data and real data after the fact.

> An AA filter just blurs the image so that no detail is beyond the Nyquist
> limit. You can do that in post, too.


no you can't, since anything beyond nyquist is now folded back below
and there's no way to remove that without removing real detail below
nyquist. plus, there can be low frequency artifacts which are all but
impossible to remove without *seriously* affecting the image.

> But to be honest, it's very, very rare for me to see any kind of moiré
> artifacts in an image these days, anyway. I don't worry about it.


if you say so.
 
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nospam
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      05-12-2012
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Mxsmanic
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> > No, that's not always possible, and it would involve degradation of the
> > image.

>
> An AA filter degrades the image, too, unless it is magically, perfectly sharp
> in its cutoff frequency, which is never the case. An AA filter will either
> allow some aliasing, or it will remove some detail.


aliasing degrades the image, far more than anything an aa filter would
ever do.
 
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nospam
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      05-12-2012
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Mxsmanic
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> > usual ones for b/w are red or yellow, but also polarizer and others.

>
> Why? I never use filters for black and white, and the results are just fine.


typically to darken the sky. other filters can affect foliage, skin,
and other parts of the subject.
 
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nospam
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      05-12-2012
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Mxsmanic
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> > no it won't. according to roger clark, tech pan is roughly equivalent
> > to 16-18 mp.

>
> Roger can believe what he wants, but I got far better than that.


and you can believe what you want.

> I could
> distinguish extra details by examining the negatives with a microscope. Of
> course, you need a lens that can step up to the challenge, but many Leica
> lenses can do just that (such as the 90 mm Summicron that I liked to use).


with a microscope, you'll only see grain.

post comparison photos, in particular, resolution charts (which is what
roger did).
 
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