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On 4/28/2012 1:00 PM, javax.swing.JSnarker wrote:
> On 27/04/2012 12:04 AM, Wayne wrote:
>> On 4/26/2012 4:29 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
>>> New versions of the JDK are out JDK 1.7.0_04 and 1.6.0_32
>>
>> From the release notes:
>>
>> ...
>> New flag to unlock Commercial Features
>> ...
>
> This is a disturbing direction that Java should not have taken. The base
> platform has always been free to use.

The Java platform has always had multiple implementations.
Some free - some that cost money.

The reference implementation is free (OpenJDK is the
reference implementation now!).

Oracle has produced/acquired a number of Java implementations,
which always have been available under different conditions
from free to paying.

Now they have apparently decided to combine two
implementations in one and use a flag to switch
from one to another.

As long as it is clearly documented what is free
and what is free, then I can not see a problem with
that.

If you don't like it, then you just pick another
implementation.

Arne

On 4/27/2012 12:10 AM, Wayne wrote:
> On 4/26/2012 4:29 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
>> New versions of the JDK are out JDK 1.7.0_04 and 1.6.0_32
>
> One of the important "commercial features" no longer supported in
> the free Java SE:
>
> Turn off JRE Auto Updates
>
> See
> <http://www.oracle.com/us/technologies/java/standard-edition/advanced-suite/comparisons/index.html>.
>
> (Does OpenJDK.net have pre-built installables for Windows? The download page
> only show how to get it for Linux.)

According to:

http://www.adam-bien.com/roller/abie...inary_download
then it should be available from:
http://jdk7.java.net/java-se-7-ri/
but the site seems to be undergoing maintenance now.

Arne

BGB wrote:
> except that grape-nuts come in one of two states:
> gravel (try eating this stuff straight and dry, not very good);
> bland mostly-flavorless glop (it directly transmutes from gravel to glop given
> time and exposure to fluids, and not consistently either).
>
> and is also generally associated with old-people [sic].

Evidence, please?

Just because you have an idiosyncratic association doesn't mean the general
public does.

Or such...

--
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../c/cf/Friz.jpg

On 4/28/2012 12:30 PM, Lew wrote:
> BGB wrote:
>> except that grape-nuts come in one of two states:
>> gravel (try eating this stuff straight and dry, not very good);
>> bland mostly-flavorless glop (it directly transmutes from gravel to
>> glop given
>> time and exposure to fluids, and not consistently either).
>>
>> and is also generally associated with old-people [sic].
>
> Evidence, please?
>
> Just because you have an idiosyncratic association doesn't mean the
> general public does.
>

ever see people who aren't older who like the stuff?
hence, why it is as it is.

if something is usually only ever seen done by a certain demographic, it
is something associated with that demographic.

BGB wrote:
> Lew wrote:
>> BGB wrote:
>>> except that grape-nuts come in one of two states:
>>> gravel (try eating this stuff straight and dry, not very good);
>>> bland mostly-flavorless glop (it directly transmutes from gravel to
>>> glop given
>>> time and exposure to fluids, and not consistently either).
>>>
>>> and is also generally associated with old-people [sic].
>>
>> Evidence, please?
>>
>> Just because you have an idiosyncratic association doesn't mean the
>> general public does.
>
> ever see people who aren't older who like the stuff?

Sure.

But even had I not, that's not evidence.

> hence, why it is as it is.

Sorry, what? That sentence lacks antecedents. Also a logical connection from
premise through evidence to conclusion.

> if something is usually only ever seen done by a certain demographic, it is
> something associated with that demographic.

Fine generality, but it doesn't apply here.

I'm still waiting for evidence. Do you have any?

Personally, I've loved Grape-Nuts since I grew teeth as a small child.

Doesn't one counter-example destroy your thesis?

--
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../c/cf/Friz.jpg

BGB <> wrote:
> On 4/28/2012 12:30 PM, Lew wrote:
>> BGB wrote:
>>> except that grape-nuts come in one of two states:
>>> gravel (try eating this stuff straight and dry, not very good);
>>> bland mostly-flavorless glop (it directly transmutes from gravel to
>>> glop given
>>> time and exposure to fluids, and not consistently either).
>>> and is also generally associated with old-people [sic].
>> Evidence, please?
>> Just because you have an idiosyncratic association doesn't mean the
>> general public does.
> ever see people who aren't older who like the stuff?
> hence, why it is as it is.
> if something is usually only ever seen done by a certain demographic, it
> is something associated with that demographic.

Or it might be just simply correlated to some particular medical aspect
that is itself correlated with progressed age. (I den't know for sure, though)

On 4/29/2012 1:39 AM, Andreas Leitgeb wrote:
> BGB<> wrote:
>> On 4/28/2012 12:30 PM, Lew wrote:
>>> BGB wrote:
>>>> except that grape-nuts come in one of two states:
>>>> gravel (try eating this stuff straight and dry, not very good);
>>>> bland mostly-flavorless glop (it directly transmutes from gravel to
>>>> glop given
>>>> time and exposure to fluids, and not consistently either).
>>>> and is also generally associated with old-people [sic].
>>> Evidence, please?
>>> Just because you have an idiosyncratic association doesn't mean the
>>> general public does.
>> ever see people who aren't older who like the stuff?
>> hence, why it is as it is.
>> if something is usually only ever seen done by a certain demographic, it
>> is something associated with that demographic.
>
> Or it might be just simply correlated to some particular medical aspect
> that is itself correlated with progressed age. (I den't know for sure, though)
>

could be. I am not sure the reason, only all of this has been my what I
have seen (maybe potentially subject to sampling bias).

as far as I know, older people as well are the main ones who are all
into "health" and going to doctors for things as well, and it was
apparently advertised a lot for health in the 1960s-1980s, meaning they
would have been exposed to it.


otherwise one would need to do randomized polls:
whether or not they like the stuff;
their current age;
....

and probably comparing against more common cereal types (corn flakes,
raisin bran, bran flakes, ...) as well as sugary cereals (fruit loops,
lucky charms, frosted flakes, ...).

and probably having defined age-ranges as well.

but, in my case, I don't really care all that much about all this though.


it could also try be determined whether it is itself a product of
increasing age, or whether it is a product of "temporal environment"
(say, certain events at certain lines leading to certain impacts on the
people who experienced them).

it is like, older people also tend to prefer 60s music and make a big
deal out of Vietnam and similar (or preferences for certain TV shows, ...).

this is not likely itself a product of aging given:
many of them were not old at the time when this stuff was going on;
another person from another time-frame (say, someone from the distant
past or future), would likely have little reason to care about these
things either.

but, at this point, it doesn't really much change matters (it doesn't
matter for sake of demographics why something is the way it is, only
that it is this way).

Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> then it should be available from:
> http://jdk7.java.net/java-se-7-ri/
> but the site seems to be undergoing maintenance now.

Planned maintenance outage over the weekend, yes.

--

"I'm a doctor, not a mechanic." Dr Leonard McCoy <>
"I'm a mechanic, not a doctor." Volker Borchert <>

On 4/30/2012 3:30 AM, Volker Borchert wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> then it should be available from:
>> http://jdk7.java.net/java-se-7-ri/
>> but the site seems to be undergoing maintenance now.
>
> Planned maintenance outage over the weekend, yes.

And it is up now.

And the Windows binary is there.

But only in 32 bit.

Arne

Hi!

Roedy Green wrote:
> New versions of the JDK are out JDK 1.7.0_04 and 1.6.0_32

I just upgraded a test system (Linux, 64 bit) from 1.7.0_03
to 1.7.0_04. Suddenly tomcat6 did not start any more.
It complained about a lack of stack size.
- Old value: 128 k
- Minimum required now (from log file): 160 k
- My new value 256 k

Now it works again.

Hope that helps someone

Gunter in Orlando, Fl